Thread For Older Teachers

[phormio]

Being married to a Thai(Sino-Thai, cause it really, really aint the same thing), and having been perusing the forums here for getting-close-to two months now; one doesn't see much(that is any) discussion of the effect of farang age on the treatment in employment and other matters. When you hit 60 and you look-it does it hurt you in terms of being able to keep/get a teaching job. Does being older help - I was under the impression that older people were shown respect and deference in Thai society, but that could-be-a-changing and/or wrong. I'm 41, by the way, going bald(prematurely in my opinion).

Does being older or having a family give you bargaining power for salary and other benefits vis-a-vis younger,single, others - even those of equal or higher qualifications and experience?

merci beaucoup. kamsahamnida.

[Ijustwannateach]

dou itashimashite?

I've seen real respect given to "older" farang teachers here, especially if they'd been teaching at the school a number of years or back in their own countries for awhile.

There is a cutoff age for the WP, but TiT, apparently some places get around it- I'd say your marketability goes down after that age; if you're forced to get a new job it'd be in the lower pay range and dodgier paperwork zone.

"Steven"

[Ajarn]

dou itashimashite?

I've seen real respect given to "older" farang teachers here, especially if they'd been teaching at the school a number of years or back in their own countries for awhile.

There is a cutoff age for the WP, but TiT, apparently some places get around it- I'd say your marketability goes down after that age; if you're forced to get a new job it'd be in the lower pay range and dodgier paperwork zone.

"Steven"

Anything beyond the basic 'I'm older than you' kind of respect for teachers doesn't come from age really, but from time...You've been known for at least a few years. Familiarity often breeds more respect- if you're worthy. I can truly say that of all the farang Ajarns I know who've been here for 10, 20, 30 or more years, they are all worthy of respect, being quite well-grounded, popular teachers, and most with families. All good guys (no women!), in my experience. The Ajarns who have socialization issues or self-destructive habits, don't last long...Everyone has their little quirks, but none dangerous...I think

Unless the laws have been changed, 60 years old is the cutoff for farang contracts 'Ajarn Piset', too. But, the university can still hire them as hourly teachers, from what I've seen. But, I do vaguely remember something in the last year about a loosening up on the age requirements, but I can't remember enough. Various government positions have higher age limits. I believe Judges can go longer...

In my experience, older teachers are often preferred by schools who teach adults (looking for experience). But, the older you are, the more scrutiny will likely be paid to in the hiring process to make sure you're flexible enough...Some older folks tend to get a bit 'set in their ways' sometimes making them not flexible enough to be a team player, for example. Anyway, the universities I've worked mostly had older Ajarns in contract positions, and they generally stay many years...

Oh, and 41 ain't even close to being 'an old teacher' here.

[kenkannif]

The cut off age depends upon which kind of school you're working for. We as a private language school have teachers in their 70s working for us. Other types of schools have to cut you off at 60 or 63 (65?), but as IJWT and Ajarn said there are ways around this quite often.

Other than possibly teaching young kids (and even then I know teachers in their 50s or 60s doing this) there's no 'real' age discrimination here, at least not towards farangs. Although it does make me laugh (and no offence meant) when a grey/white haired teacher suddenly shows up with jet black (or a kind of ginger/red seems popular nowadays) hair!

[nomade]

Strange! I keep seeing ads on Ajarn which specify age criteria with an upper age limit, sometimes as low as 30/35. I presume it's because they're more interested in what their teachers look like than whether or not they can teach. Mind you, they do have some wierd stuff in some of the ads. Like this one the other day....

Applicants need not be married but qualified and experience is a must

[kenkannif]

Who are they going to be teaching though (i.e. what age?)?

If you're married it's deemed you're a little bit 'safer' to employ (aren't as likely to be going out on the lash every night, or consorting with B/Gs and then not coming in 'cos she's stabbed you or something like that!).

[Ajarn]

Strange! I keep seeing ads on Ajarn which specify age criteria with an upper age limit, sometimes as low as 30/35.  I presume it's because they're more interested in what their teachers look like than whether or not they can teach. Mind you, they do have some wierd stuff in some of the ads.  Like this one the other day....

Applicants need not be married but qualified and experience is a must

Yeah, I think many DoS's have their own predjudices for hiring, based on experience, or maybe... rumour...

You'll also see ads for female teachers only, which I also generally preferred, though there were plenty of duds, too...I also liked hiring couples, and every one of them did a great job. If I was still hiring, I'd sure try to go for couples as much as possible.

In schools with Thais doing the hiring, my experience is that they either have a very narrow range for hiring criteria, or they'll hire most anyone coming through the door.

I'm assuming the ads for age limits in the 30's are for kids teachers....Those kinds of limits should send up red flags, I think. Cold be that they have some serious classroom management issues, and kids run wild in the English classes because the teacher can't get any support or backup, or sometimes they're told not to do any discipline... Most older folks simply don't tolerate those kinds of issues well, I think. Another reason why I like them.

[phormio]

...You'll also see ads for female teachers only, which I also generally preferred, though there were plenty of duds, too...I also liked hiring couples, and every one of them did a great job. If I was still hiring, I'd sure try to go for couples as much as possible.

In schools with Thais doing the hiring, my experience is that they either have a very narrow range for hiring criteria, or they'll hire most anyone coming through the door.

...

This is an interesting point. My wife(Thai) a product of the Assumption School System through hichchool, seems to think that most schools are looking for female teachers, at least in English. Aren't most Thai teachers women?

Do the Thais think male teachers are off in one way or another?

P.S.:

She also thinks my prospects are quite good for getting a good teaching job in BKK.

[Ajarn]

...You'll also see ads for female teachers only, which I also generally preferred, though there were plenty of duds, too...I also liked hiring couples, and every one of them did a great job. If I was still hiring, I'd sure try to go for couples as much as possible.

In schools with Thais doing the hiring, my experience is that they either have a very narrow range for hiring criteria, or they'll hire most anyone coming through the door.

...

This is an interesting point. My wife(Thai) a product of the Assumption School System through hichchool, seems to think that most schools are looking for female teachers, at least in English. Aren't most Thai teachers women?

Do the Thais think male teachers are off in one way or another?

P.S.:

She also thinks my prospects are quite good for getting a good teaching job in BKK.

Yes, that's true, mostly k-12....The reason is that most hirers are women, and woman tend to hire woman whenever possble. One of the 'in-house' hiring criteria in ANY school is how that Thai teacher will fit into the 'clique' there...

Also, there aren't many males choosing the Education faculty as any of their choices, but many women will add the Education Faculty to their list of (usually) 4 choices, 1-4....If they do poorly on the entrance exam and can't get into one of the more popular faculties like Liberal Arts, at least the Education faculty will almost for sure have plenty of openings. Of teachers I've asked in the Ed. Faculty, not one said it was their first choice...

Some years ago, there was an opening in the English dept at Rajabhat College (university now) Kanchanaburi for a Farang English teacher. Mentioned in the add was the proud fact that it's an all-male dept. I called about it, and he presented that as the job's 'Major Plus'...The job went quite fast, to be sure. I've never seen male Thai teachers get involved much in the petty office politics, but I've rarely seen a Thai female Ajarn not involved, especially if they're relatively new...Trying to play it as an Independent is like signing your death warrant. I've seen more than one example of pressure being brought to bear on that teacher, either directly, or hassling anyone seen as being her friend... In one example at CMU, a farang, seen as the friend of one unpopular Ajarn, was refused a contract renewal.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Yup. Age discimination, sexual discrimination, skin color discrimination, religious discrimination- all of it is secondary to the more important business of petty office discrimination!

It's funny and yet deadly serious. Look for the powerful Ajarns and make them happy! Then they'll forget your age.

"Steven"

[phormio]

...  Look for the powerful Ajarns and make them happy! ...

There's more than one way to skin a cat...

[Ajarn]

...  Look for the powerful Ajarns and make them happy! ...

There's more than one way to skin a cat...

That's the only way I've seen those cats skinned...

[phormio]

...  Look for the powerful Ajarns and make them happy! ...

There's more than one way to skin a cat...

That's the only way I've seen those cats skinned...

My reference in skinning a cat was towards ways to make 'em happy, not avoiding that task

[joe strummer]

Wondering just how much weight is assigned to the AGE FACTOR by prospective employers in Thailand?

I'll have qualified for my tesl/tesol certificate and hope to teach in Bangkok. However, I've heard that salaries there are not high enough to sustain a comfortable lifestyle.

Anyway, I digress. I'm presently 62 years old and I've heard that most schools recruit young people almost exclusively. Any chance an OLD MAN might still get a decent job and contribute something before his demise?

If employment by one of the leading schools in an area is not a viable option, then what are the chances of one promoting himself? I.E., home based tutoring/schooling, etc.?

What say you?

[Dickie]

ëб ваша мать

[Rhys]

The age thing can work both ways... Depend on the school. BKK.. GET out of there...Sadly, at the international schools that will pay you the higher salary. above 30k/M you deal with many of the dek sia... and if that is something you can handle... your age will factor into this. as the kids love to stick it to the "older" Farang... Just think, they could not do it with their culture and they got you.. so you get it..

Your liason support team is the key.. Good luck

OH..Do stay away from BCC...you'll know the school off the BTS. on the other line

[Nat]

ëб ваша мать

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be nice

[PeaceBlondie]

There's not much more ageism - maybe less - in Thailand than you might find back home, wherever that is. I'm 62. If that's your own picture for your avatar, you don't look old.

If you don't have a recent B.Ed. and teaching experience as a certified graduate teacher back home, you're not going to get interviewed at a 'leading' school in Bangkok. I agree with whomever said to stay out of Bangkok. But you might not make 21,000 in Chiang Mai, which has terrible wages but is great place to live if you also have a pension, which I do. I only make 25K every month because I'm willing to commute to the next province, where they're more desparate.

Send me a PM if you'd like.

[Dickie]

ëб ваша мать

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be nice

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did wonder if anyone on this forum would understand that.

[paully]

Joe, what other experience and/or qualifications do you have? You haven't given anything about your background. There are a surprising number of opportunities around to teach (nearly always part-time) subjects other than English in English. If you've got a business background and, preferably, a business qualification there are a number of MBA and BBA (Bachelor degree) programmes taught in English here which you can try to sneak on. The pay is safely higher than teaching English and it's not much stress provided you've got some sort of syllabus/programme prepared. I teach Law courses 2 or 3 times a year, I've also taught (or will be teaching) History, Politics, Economics and Geography courses. As I said, these are part-time add-ons from time to time, but quite nice little earners if you get a basic full-time job or you have other ways of keeping the money coming in regularly. Age isn't a problem in my view. Just a thought for you.

[chuchok]

Wondering just how much weight is assigned to the AGE FACTOR by prospective employers in Thailand?

I'll have qualified for my tesl/tesol certificate and hope to teach in Bangkok.  However, I've heard that salaries there are not high enough to sustain a comfortable lifestyle.

Anyway, I digress. I'm presently 62 years old and I've heard that most schools recruit young people almost exclusively. Any chance an OLD MAN might still get a decent job and contribute something before his demise?

If employment by one of the leading schools in an area is not a viable option, then what are the chances of one promoting himself? I.E., home based tutoring/schooling, etc.?

What say you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TROLL

[mijan24]

Dickie

basket-case

If this is your contribution why don't you return to the "basket" you have obviously slithered out of.

This response hopefully conveys my distaste for " so called posters " whose only input is to snipe and then offer the excuse "I did wonder if anyone on this forum would understand that".

You are understood more than you may think!!!

Mijan24

For your type I take off the mask.

[joe strummer]

Wondering just how much weight is assigned to the AGE FACTOR by prospective employers in Thailand?

I'll have qualified for my tesl/tesol certificate and hope to teach in Bangkok.  However, I've heard that salaries there are not high enough to sustain a comfortable lifestyle.

Anyway, I digress. I'm presently 62 years old and I've heard that most schools recruit young people almost exclusively. Any chance an OLD MAN might still get a decent job and contribute something before his demise?

If employment by one of the leading schools in an area is not a viable option, then what are the chances of one promoting himself? I.E., home based tutoring/schooling, etc.?

What say you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TROLL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you're a stalker. Get a life you sad pathetic 'creature'.

[PeaceBlondie]

Joe S., care to give us a little more background?

Why Bangkok? What advanced degree do you have that would qualify you for a top school?

You're not an old man if you can still walk around the block after having sex.

[tedkarma]

Strummer,

I'm "only" 53, but look in my sixties - didn't have trouble finding work in BKK, or Phuket. Phuket takes more time as it is a smaller market - and you have to be more picky as the wages are often poor.

I think how you present yourself is probably more important. I am a high energy teacher (and person) - and I think that comes across.

The places that are just looking for the models in their 20s - aren't usually good places to work anyway.

Some places may well place more value on your life experience, patience, people skills, etc.

Just my opinion.

[et33.com]

get yourself a voluteer job first and proceed from there

work for board and food first

after all

you want to contribute right ?

[Ajarn]

In my observations in Thai schools over the years, age is only sometimes a negative consideration in hiring when it comes to teaching young kids, because of the vast amounts of patience and energy kiddies require. I have only modest amounts of both, so I am not so great with kids in the longterm- no matter the salary

On the plus side, I think 'advanced' age is big plus in teaching- Life experience and overall maturity in someone are valuable in any learning environment... Many schools recognize that, and your age will often garner you more respect.

But, our experiences can also make some of us quite set in our ways, na'? Not always a bad thing, but something that I looked at very closely when hiring older teachers. Flexibilty in the Thai working environment is critical.

Schools also sometimes prefer younger men and women (especially women!) because they might feel they'll be more 'fun', and thus good motivation for their students. If you've ever seen an English classroom with a Thai teacher, you might have likely witnessed lots of yawning students, so it's understandable that some schools will be looking for Farang clown college grads...

If you're flexible, energetic, and look presentable, I think you'll do okay in Thailand, no matter your age.

Edited December 14, 2004 by Ajarn

[joe strummer]

Joe S., care to give us a little more background?

Why Bangkok?  What advanced degree do you have that would qualify you for a top school?

You're not an old man if you can still walk around the block after having sex.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bangkok - More opportunities to find work, a larger market.

<This comment was not acceptable and thus has been deleted. Also I'm a little concerned that you're signing as HP as this is a banned member (and even if he wasn't banned you can't have two niks on here) if you want to post here, please keep it sensible KK>

Did I post that I had an 'advanced degree'?

HP <Why?>

Edited December 14, 2004 by kenkannif

[Welshman]

I'm moving out there in August, taking a TEFL then looking for a post (preferably in the provinces).

My main background (20 years teaching experience) has been in ICT (though I appreciate that English is the main subject out there).

One thing that bothers me though is my age. I'm turned 60 but one of the reasons for moving out there is that I just don't want to have to retire when I'm 65 which I would have to working at the college I do.

Can anyone advise as to any problem I might encounter due to my age ?

[Thetyim]

Personally I do not think your age will be any obstacle if you want to teach in the provinces.

I presume you have some experience of LOS and can speak thai a little

I know of one other taffy the same age as you teaching in CM.