Dowry

[massein]

i agree with the old man part, , a farang coming here that is 50 + wanting a baby in there 20s is crazy, Be realistic i've been married to my wife for 3 years she is 44 and I'm 54, She even built out first house with her money. I familly built a western style house this year. I was never ask for a dowery and the only time my wife will give money to familly is if they do work for us. The only exception is with mama, when she goes to the doctor be usually pay the 30B and buy the medicine, i actually feel guilty because i don't do more

[luckystar555]

Bernard Trink about the dowry:

Although there are no absolutes, the amount of the dowry is pretty well fixed vis-a-vis the girl's social standing and is rarely negotiated. If the girl comes from a good family (i.e. honest, not necessarily rich), a good portion is usually returned to the bride and groom.

A symbolic show of commitment on the part of the prospective groom, indicating his ability to support his bride, it is given back to help the new couple start their life together.

In general, the amounts according to social standing are as follows: Lower-class up-country girl, 30,000 to 50,000; middle-class girl, 50,000 to 100,000; upper middle-class girl, 100,000 to 200,000; upper-class girl, 200,000+. For a girl from a well-established Thai family, expect to pay 1,000,000 and up.

As for bar girls: What they should get (about 20,000 to 30,000 ) and what they demand (whatever the traffic will bear) is outside this tradition as they have no social standing in the minds of the Thais, and aren't known to follow the rules (i.e. they keep all the money).

The chances of any farang getting into the 200,000 strata is pretty remote, if not nearly impossible. At that level, the Thais are a particularly clannish and exclusive lot, viewing most farangs as barbarians, even if they're rich.

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[Thetyim]

Personally I do not believe any of the dowry pricelists given here.  It is more to do with how much you can afford rather than how much is she worth.

I have been to two weddings this month,  both thai girls marrying  THAI men.

The first was a very nice 19 year old girl who claimed to be a virgin  (I have no way to confirm this)  and her dowry was 10,000 baht.

The second was a 23 year old who was definitely not a virgin

(I know three of her ex-boyfriends) and her mother is an ex bargirl.  And the dowry was..................2 MILLION BAHT

Any explainations welcome, I am confused

[luckystar555]

I guess that ex-bargirl had 'a heart of gold' (LOL)

[luckystar555]

sorry Moderator,

I replied too quickly.

Not the girl, but the mother was an ex-bargirl.

You can delete my above message if you want

[Mali]

when you write 600,000 baht, it seems like a lot of money with so many zeros at the end. In reality it is only $15k or about L9000 which is not much at all. You are 48 and she is 32 and is a nurse. If she moves to the US where there is a real shortage of nurses, she will earn at least $40K+ a year.

Does a poor farmer deserve less money because he does not have money to begin with? Are we that classist here? I am sure her parents have sacrificed a lot of things to send her to college. Maybe they have taken a loan to send her there. Maybe that was the amount that they owe the bank. Have you ever asked why they needed that amount of money?

Actually you are getting a good bargain here. Can you get a 32 years old British nurse to marry you in England? You are an old man and will not get any younger. You will have health problems soon before her. I wonder did she ever think about this issue when she agreed to marry you. Maybe she is spellbound by your good looks of 48 now. As we all know, old age is nothing that we can run away from. I for one will never think of marrying anyone that much senior of me.

So if I were you, I would hurry back to her and grab her before someone else does. With luck she might still want you. As for the L9000, it is very cheap to get a woman of her caliber to marry you. A million or two is more like it.

[buasaard]

reality it is only $15k or about L9000 which is not much at all.

$15K not much at all? Are you aware of a worker's salary in Europe?

What's the amount would you consider much?

Are you aware for instance of a worker's salary in Europe?

I am sure her parents have sacrificed a lot of things to send her to college. Maybe they have taken a loan to send her there. Maybe that was the amount that they owe the bank. Have you ever asked why they needed that amount of money?

Did only females' parents sacrifice? Parents sacrifice for sons and daughters all over the world, and usually do not ask for rewards, at last my parents didn't. If really need money of course they must be helped, but this must not be done for a reward.I've been married with a thai woman for 16 years and we (please note we not me ) send money to her every month, because otherwise she wouldn't have money for living. We are a family and must help each other's parents.

Someone said in other posts that thai women put the original family before of the new one.

That's not true! I'm happy to have found a woman that put both families at the same level.

Actually you are getting a good bargain here. Can you get a 32 years old British nurse to marry you in England? You are an old man and will not get any younger. You will have health problems soon before her. I wonder did she ever think about this issue when she agreed to marry you. Maybe she is spellbound by your good looks of 48 now. As we all know, old age is nothing that we can run away from. I for one will never think of marrying anyone that much senior of me.

So if I were you, I would hurry back to her and grab her before someone else does. With luck she might still want you. As for the L9000, it is very cheap to get a woman of her caliber to marry you. A million or two is more like it.

Good bargain? Are we at the market? With luck she might still want you?

Which kind of relationship can be this? Does one want a man and wife relation or an "old man/nurse" relation, because if one want an "old man/nurse" relation you can always employ a nurse, man and wife relations have nothing to do with cheap or expensive.

Well if someone want me only for the dowry, she can remain there.

By the way I am not old, but I am disabled. But not for this reason I was ready to accept as a wife anybody at any price.

[chonabot]

Back to the original post.....Caravelle are you still with us mate? We need some signs of life !

[jubjib]

I am a thai girl and i know that 600000 is way too much.Its more like a scam than a dowry lol Be careful with ur going-to-be parents in law,this shows that they r greedy.I would have to hit my parents in the head and hope they would come to their sense if they asked my bf this amount of money.100000-300000 for dowry and spend more on the ring should be more reasonable.Good luck...u might need it

[chonabot]

Have you done away with our Caravelle pray tell?

[plachon]

Looks like the fairy tale turned into a nightmare, but it would still be nice to know the ending, eh? Mind you, bet he's glad he posted in the first place, or it could have been a v. expensive mistake methinks

[TizMe]

Looks like he's hooked up with Zara in Bangers... We'll have to wait for him to get back from vacation.

[plachon]

Full marks for observation Tiz Me! & LPCustom Agony Aunt!

[Mali]

Caravelle had asked for a lady’s input. I am a female so I sent in my 2 cents.  I posted questions about why her poor farmer parents wanted 600,000 baht as a dowry. Since Caravelle did not tell us why, I would just like to know before starting to accuse the parents of fleecing a rich farang. It could have been the amount of the loan for sending her to college, which she is trying to pay back. You may not know that farmers in Thailand in general do not own the land, and also have to rely on the rain unlike the farmers in developed countries that have better irrigation. The chance of being a rich famer is very slim; hence, the oxymoron of the term poor farmer. However, if she to be married to this rich farang, she may have to move to the UK. Thus, her poor parents are left holding the bag. Who knows? All I want is that people be open-minded.

She is a 32 year old nurse. If she were to come to the US and got licensed, she would earn that money back in less than a year. I do not know how poorly Europeans are paid, but I think British workers are paid not far behind the US. Caravelle is already aware of who he is getting. He is not getting a bar girl or an uneducated woman who he has to take care of. May I remind you that he is getting a young professional woman who is 16 years his junior? Once she passes her licensing exam, she will earn much more money than what here parents are asking for. So this should answer your question about what amount is considered a lot. Or, in other words, the amount in question is relative to what she is worth or will be worth in the future.

I do not know what kind of relationship it is going to be. It can be called love or whatever. In a woman's eyes, at least in my part, she is getting the short end of the stick here. She may or may not know this. I hope she is a smart woman who walks into the relationship with open eyes. As someone once said, love makes us blind.

Others questions that I would like to post are these: Can Caravelle afford the L9, 000 without hurting himself financially? If that is the case, he should let the woman know. If he can afford that and does not want to pay because he thinks the poor farmers do not deserve it, he should just say good-bye to the lady. Amen!

What I am trying to do is to see the situation thru a woman's eyes. The majority of the board seemed to jump to conclusions about the amount of the dowry. I am looking at the situation as if she were my own daughter. Regardless of the dowry, I would ask if my daughter really loves him. I would also ask her the same question about the 16 years different in age. If she is aware that on average males in the US have a shorter live span by 5-7 years to the females. I would ask her to read the book about golden age (some Thai doctors have written books about older men 50+ called Wai Tong (golden age)). I would want her to be prepared what to expect from her older husband in terms of health, sex, emotional and physical needs. In 12 years he will be 60 and she will be just 44. Of course, there is a chance that he could be above the norm, super strong, and out-live her. But I am talking about average here.

As for what kind of relationship we are talking about: If I were a 48 year old man and asking a 32 year old woman to marry me, I would ask myself some of these questions. What can I provide her except my dying love? How is my health?  Am I in good health to be her companion for a normal life span?  Can I keep up with this lovely woman in terms of sex, life styles, activities, etc…?  Will I be able to satisfy her needs? If I happen to die before her, will she be ok financially or emotionally? Do I really love her or is she just a trophy wife so I could show off to other guys that I still can? I would try to answer these questions as honestly as I can.

In conclusion, after all, it is not just about the amount of the dowry, is it?

[Mali]

Plachon,

What kinds of fairy tales are we talking about here? Obviously, it is not a Cinderella’s style, how about a lucky old man with his young professional wife.

[chonabot]

Mali , you sound cool!

[buasaard]

If she were to come to the US and got licensed, she would earn that money back in less than a year

So she should be grateful, to have the chance to go to work in an European country, and in little time

they can help her family.

Am I in good health to be her companion for a normal life span?

Excuse me, as I wrote before I am a disabled and sensible on this matter. What do you consider a good health and a normal life span? When you marry, you don't have to promise to help each other with good health or illness (sorry I don't know the exact formula).

Regarding amount of dowry, I spoke with my friends married with thai girls, and noone has been asked for such a dowry, someone helps the girl's family, some simply can't, because cost of living in Europe is high and some of them earn no more than 1,200 Euros a month.

When me and my wife decided to marry, she asked me if I could help her mother to live, and asked me if I can afford to send 3,000 Bath a month.

This seemed very fair to me. After a few months my wife started to work as a cleaner and increased the monies we send every month, as inflation went up; and never thought of "my money", "her money" , but always "our money".

This is my idea of family.

I think different ideas of family can't work. Simply it is not a family, it's a firm of the kind "you give me sex and housework, I give you money".

Anyway I think we are wasting our time, because if you see the Zara in Bangers topic, Caravelle has already made up his mind....

[Mali]

Hi Chonabot,

Thanks for you kind words. Glad you like my inputs.

[plachon]

Sorry Mali, the comment was meant to be "tongue-in-cheek". The guy started out with stars in his eyes over this young woman(see first post) and ended up chasing after lonely Finns as an alternative (see last post). Nothing against Finns, you understand Mali, it's just the way the cookie's crumbled for our Romeo Caravelle.

Yeah, you sound cool enough, pretty calculating too and probably pretty too, I shouldn't wonder. Wow, the compliments come gushing today..............

[Wei]

Come on guys, lets just not assume what happened to Caravelle. Wait and see if he is going to post us some news.  ???

[jubjib]

600,000 is way too much for a middle class family.I think ur dealing with too greedy going-to-be parents in-law so better watch out.I would say 100,000-300,000 for dowry and u could spend more on the ring,this would make more sense.Your gf should be the one talking to their parents about this.What did she say about this amount of dowry?If i was her i would have to hit my parents in the heads and hope they'd come to their senses!!!I wish you luck...u might need it.

[caravelle]

Yes its me and still alive and well.

I tell the news very soon that so many are waiting for.

Just a hint, is that all is good  

watch this space tomorrow

[chonabot]

He's back....watch this space!

[Mali]

Great, now that he is back. Maybe some of our questions will be answered.

[Maigo6]

Waiting for next instalment.

[caravelle]

As Promised I tell of how my situation has progessed.

The content will be short,to the point and my last communication on this forum topic.

I was wary to the size of dowry asked but not so concerned now.  Reasons for less concerned are as follows:

I have been informed that a large amount will be returned once we are married.

Some Pays for the wedding and  celebration.

When compared to the cost of a wedding in some of Europe and America, the total I give as dowry is not so much.  Not forgetting a sizeable amount is to be returned to me.  If not returned, then its of no real importance in the whole situation.

I have visited recently and been made most welcome by all family and many friends.

Some can say it can still be an act.

I prefer and am happy to see this as genuine and true.

If any of you are guys who find yourself in a similar situation, then realise that there are many traditions and beliefs, many genuine and honest Ladies.  Then its up to you if you can accept as is, or walk away.

I choose to stay with my Lady and look forward to a happy and close future together.  For better or worse, not forgetting she takes me for better or worse also.

As for ability to earn money, I am of the old idea that a Lady should not work unless she chooses to work herself.  In some countries a Non Citizen cannot work for 2yrs even though they have a residence visa.

Thank you all for your imput, some of which is so beneficial and only a little from narrow minded individuals. No matter as I thank all for your imputs and for viewing at this forum.

Take care

Caravelle

ps. sometimes your heart can have more sense than your brain,as in my case.

pps.  Some may think my heart controls me in this.  I tell you that you are so wrong but do not reveal all  

[chonabot]

Caravelle , Glad it worked out mate. Keep us updated , any chance of an invite to the wedding ?

:laugh:

[Bud Zumwalt]

???

It seems to me you do not know this lady well enough or her family to be even thinking about handing over all that kind of cash. Have you done a background check on her, was she ever married before, does she have a husband now? I can honestly say that I have talked extensively with ladies via email, some wanting farang husbands badly. I never had any ask for money for anything, it seems kind of peddy you have to even pay for her email. If I had to pay for all the email I got from ladies, even at 100 baht per day I would be stone broke. You may be getting set up, and you probably will recover nothing. It seems to me your a very naive guy and a very easy mark.

Bud

[benny]

Bud,

Paying a dowry to prospective parents in law is neither naive nor uncommon, nor is it an indicator of the ethics of the lady involved. I would hope that the Caravelle knows more about the intentions of his intended than you, but then again you seem to be an expert on Thai culture.... tell me again how long you have lived here? Are you suggesting that a dowry is not applicable in your case, that the ladies that have been emailing you have fallen in love with your svelte appearance and have forgotten their tradtional thai values? COME ON - WAKE UP!!

[Bud Zumwalt]

???

Ok, pay it. But realize that minus a background check, he has left himself kind of in the dark. I once dated a woman from Palm Beach, she was older and certainly very well of, she ran a background check on me before even dating me. I would assume it to be proper, that this gentleman do the same. You made some dum statement about he should know her and her intentions, well I guess he should. What better way to know for sure than simply hire a PI in Bangkok and do a check. I am surprised a veteran of Thailand like yourself has never heard of the dowry scams going on. Nice looking ladies who could charm the skin off a snake. I guess you paid a dowry and did not get scammed, good for you, but statistically what is the probability, if no probability or scude off the scale, maybe he is safe, but maybe the few hundred necessary for the PI is reassuring. If the man was sure about this he would not have bothered to ask. Really is my advise that bad and do I deserve an insult from a self proclaimed long term Thai resident who knows it all.

Bud