Thailand Assures Smooth Passage For Olympic Torch Relay

[Jingthing]

How would a powerless vassal state react? It'd be business as usual. Although all of the foodstuffs normally bound for China would probably have to be transported via land instead of sea... but really that's all just theoretical "Axis and Allies / Risk" talk. The only war that China and the US will ever have is the economic one that is just about over.

Yes and no. Unlikely but not exactly impossible. China is rising, the USA is decling, obviously. In future, we can easily predict (more) wars over food, water, and oil. Eventually China is probably going to grow even bigger cajones. Whats to stop them from taking over Taiwan, Cambodia, etc, as they already control resource rich Burma. What force in the world would there be left to resist this empire building? The Netherlands?

Edited April 16, 2008 by Jingthing

[PETERTHEEATER]

Thailand assures smooth passage for Olympic torch relay

Who is she? A BG from Pattaya?

[Heng]

How would a powerless vassal state react? It'd be business as usual. Although all of the foodstuffs normally bound for China would probably have to be transported via land instead of sea... but really that's all just theoretical "Axis and Allies / Risk" talk. The only war that China and the US will ever have is the economic one that is just about over.

Yes and no. Unlikely but not exactly impossible. China is rising, the USA is decling, obviously. In future, we can easily predict (more) wars over food, water, and oil. Eventually China is probably going to grow even bigger cajones. Whats to stop them from taking over Taiwan, Cambodia, etc, as they already control resource rich Burma. What force in the world would there be left to resist this empire building? The Netherlands?

Taiwan and China are just a younger brother and older brother who don't like each other but know they are family. No reason to go to war, especially when there are about a thousand Taiwanese owned factories in China helping on the economic 'front' against everyone else. China has long been setting up economic influence in Africa, the Middle East, and South America, I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist (as much) because they want to do business.

[Scott]

Well for God's sake, of course it will be a smooth passage for the torch. I mean, it was a smooth passage for tanks and armed soldiers on the street, why get all worked up now?

[ashacat]

Is it just me or does anyone else find Heng's posts in this thread disturbing?

Nah, just like pushing Tibetans and protesters around

And if that didn't happen, the indigenous folks would still be playing tokraw and rolling/mashing up balls of sticky rice

Our method of colonialization is both humane as it is absolute...No mess and relatively light resistance

I suppose you believe that Native Americans and Oz aboriginees would have had their own industrial revolution if left to their own rate of development?

I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist...

Edited April 16, 2008 by ashacat

[Johpa]

How would a powerless vassal state react? It'd be business as usual. Although all of the foodstuffs normally bound for China would probably have to be transported via land instead of sea... but really that's all just theoretical "Axis and Allies / Risk" talk. The only war that China and the US will ever have is the economic one that is just about over.

Yes and no. Unlikely but not exactly impossible. China is rising, the USA is decling, obviously. In future, we can easily predict (more) wars over food, water, and oil. Eventually China is probably going to grow even bigger cajones. Whats to stop them from taking over Taiwan, Cambodia, etc, as they already control resource rich Burma. What force in the world would there be left to resist this empire building? The Netherlands?

Taiwan and China are just a younger brother and older brother who don't like each other but know they are family. No reason to go to war, especially when there are about a thousand Taiwanese owned factories in China helping on the economic 'front' against everyone else. China has long been setting up economic influence in Africa, the Middle East, and South America, I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist (as much) because they want to do business.

The long term problem for China, AKA the Asian Borg, is that with many of their own neo-sahibs being like Heng here, they are imperial in nature and given to a larger dose of racism towards the indigenous natives, such attitudes historically generate rebellion amongst the governed peoples. Tibet is symptomatic and requires a large military presence to insure suppression. In Burma the heavy Beijing economic presence benefits a very small minority run by a psychotic ruling military elite that brutally, and I mean brutally, represses a majority that would gladly forego all those economic incentives for a small taste of relief from the brutality.

The question is whether the situation in Burma deteriorates further, with increased and open rebellion which would require the PRC to send in troops to protect their colonials, and then how does Thailand react to the possibility of Chinese troops along its borders.

[jstumbo]

Too true. Thailand has been colonized by the Chinese from the inside. They came a few generations ago and married into Thailand. Now, the Chinese are the only businessmen who truly have the decks loaded in their favor.

I hope the Olympics are a HUGE failure and a major loss of both face and money for the Chinese. I, personally, won't even watch it on TV.

They have done this throughout SE Asia.

Every factory I work with throughout SE Asia is owned, and managed by ethnic Chinese people. Sure, they work hard, but also they discriminate against the local ethnic groups very heavily. It has caused me many problems because I hire people to work for me in the various countries, and they are all from the ethnic majority of those countries. The management at the factories always treat them like crap, and refuse to deal with them. Instead they always try to bypass them and work with me directly. I have had to pound it into the Chinese owners that this person works for my company. That they have the authority to make decisions and I stand behind them. It is always a constant battle.

Pretty much all the people that work in the offices at the factory and all of the positions above factory worker are filled by ethnic Chinese. If a person came in that was Thai, or Indonesia, or Malay, they would not even give them an interview, regardless of how qualified they are. The factories will also only work with other Chinese run factories. So if they need a supplier, they will not consider one that is not owned and operated by ethic Chinese. This and my experience in China always gives me a negative feeling towards the Chinese, which is not really a good think since my wife is from China.

[Heng]

Is it just me or does anyone else find Heng's posts in this thread disturbing?

Nah, just like pushing Tibetans and protesters around

And if that didn't happen, the indigenous folks would still be playing tokraw and rolling/mashing up balls of sticky rice

Our method of colonialization is both humane as it is absolute...No mess and relatively light resistance

I suppose you believe that Native Americans and Oz aboriginees would have had their own industrial revolution if left to their own rate of development?

I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist...

Is it just me or do you not take context (as in the posts and posters I'm responding to) into consideration as well?

[jstumbo]

Don't use the Olympics to advance your political interests. Let the athletes compete. I've always loved watching the Olympics. When I was a kid, I remember being really disappointed when Carter decided to boycott Moscow.

Yeah right!

I remember in the seventies as I watched on in awe as steroid-ridden Russian and eastern European 'athletes' scoped up all the medals. Brilliant!

Kind of like a few years ago where the entire Chinese women's diving team was not sent to some world championship. It was rumored it was because the steriods they were using would be able to be picked up by new testing.

[plachon]

Is it just me or does anyone else find Heng's posts in this thread disturbing?

Nah, just like pushing Tibetans and protesters around

And if that didn't happen, the indigenous folks would still be playing tokraw and rolling/mashing up balls of sticky rice

Our method of colonialization is both humane as it is absolute...No mess and relatively light resistance

I suppose you believe that Native Americans and Oz aboriginees would have had their own industrial revolution if left to their own rate of development?

I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist...

No more so than the average American's view on TV who thinks they have the god-given right to invade other countries (like Iraq or Afghanistan) at will, just becuase they were brought up thinking they were automatically "the good guys". Similarly many ethnic Chinese have superiority complexes brought about by centuries of occasional violent annexation and continual economic domination of neighbouring states and peoples. Heng's posts, although I may not agree with the sentiment of many, I find refreshingly honest on the whole and hope he continues to say it as he thinks. Diversity is the spice of life.

[Heng]

How would a powerless vassal state react? It'd be business as usual. Although all of the foodstuffs normally bound for China would probably have to be transported via land instead of sea... but really that's all just theoretical "Axis and Allies / Risk" talk. The only war that China and the US will ever have is the economic one that is just about over.

Yes and no. Unlikely but not exactly impossible. China is rising, the USA is decling, obviously. In future, we can easily predict (more) wars over food, water, and oil. Eventually China is probably going to grow even bigger cajones. Whats to stop them from taking over Taiwan, Cambodia, etc, as they already control resource rich Burma. What force in the world would there be left to resist this empire building? The Netherlands?

Taiwan and China are just a younger brother and older brother who don't like each other but know they are family. No reason to go to war, especially when there are about a thousand Taiwanese owned factories in China helping on the economic 'front' against everyone else. China has long been setting up economic influence in Africa, the Middle East, and South America, I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist (as much) because they want to do business.

The long term problem for China, AKA the Asian Borg, is that with many of their own neo-sahibs being like Heng here, they are imperial in nature and given to a larger dose of racism towards the indigenous natives, such attitudes historically generate rebellion amongst the governed peoples. Tibet is symptomatic and requires a large military presence to insure suppression. In Burma the heavy Beijing economic presence benefits a very small minority run by a psychotic ruling military elite that brutally, and I mean brutally, represses a majority that would gladly forego all those economic incentives for a small taste of relief from the brutality.

The question is whether the situation in Burma deteriorates further, with increased and open rebellion which would require the PRC to send in troops to protect their colonials, and then how does Thailand react to the possibility of Chinese troops along its borders.

Surely we could just sew on new patches to the Thai Army uniforms?

[jstumbo]

China has long been setting up economic influence in Africa, the Middle East, and South America, I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist (as much) because they want to do business.

China is gaining influence in all of the pariah states that have terrible human rights records and that western nations do not want to do business with. A country could be walking the streets killing anyone that is not of a correct ethnic group, and China would still do business with them if they could make money. If Nazi Germany was around today, China would be supplying them the gas that they used in the death chambers.

[Heng]

Is it just me or does anyone else find Heng's posts in this thread disturbing?

Nah, just like pushing Tibetans and protesters around

And if that didn't happen, the indigenous folks would still be playing tokraw and rolling/mashing up balls of sticky rice

Our method of colonialization is both humane as it is absolute...No mess and relatively light resistance

I suppose you believe that Native Americans and Oz aboriginees would have had their own industrial revolution if left to their own rate of development?

I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist...

No more so than the average American's view on TV who thinks they have the god-given right to invade other countries (like Iraq or Afghanistan) at will, just becuase they were brought up thinking they were automatically "the good guys". Similarly many ethnic Chinese have superiority complexes brought about by centuries of occasional violent annexation and continual economic domination of neighbouring states and peoples. Heng's posts, although I may not agree with the sentiment of many, I find refreshingly honest on the whole and hope he continues to say it as he thinks. Diversity is the spice of life.

Thanks Plachon.

Yeah, nothing like emigrating to a country as a peasant or at least next to nothing to build up that superiority complex. Such an insidious method of annexation it is too.

[Heng]

China has long been setting up economic influence in Africa, the Middle East, and South America, I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist (as much) because they want to do business.

China is gaining influence in all of the pariah states that have terrible human rights records and that western nations do not want to do business with. A country could be walking the streets killing anyone that is not of a correct ethnic group, and China would still do business with them if they could make money. If Nazi Germany was around today, China would be supplying them the gas that they used in the death chambers.

And which western countries have lived up to their own standards and put China on the pariah list?

[jstumbo]

Is it just me or does anyone else find Heng's posts in this thread disturbing?

Nah, just like pushing Tibetans and protesters around

And if that didn't happen, the indigenous folks would still be playing tokraw and rolling/mashing up balls of sticky rice

Our method of colonialization is both humane as it is absolute...No mess and relatively light resistance

I suppose you believe that Native Americans and Oz aboriginees would have had their own industrial revolution if left to their own rate of development?

I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist...

Having spent a lot of time in China, and working with a lot of ethnic Chinese in businesses in SE Asia, I am not surprised. This is genuinely how most Chinese I know feel. At the risk of being non-pc, he does have a valid point in that not all civilizations evolve at the same rate and that given some civilizations cultures, they would probably not advance very far given centuries.

[jstumbo]

No more so than the average American's view on TV who thinks they have the god-given right to invade other countries (like Iraq or Afghanistan) at will, just becuase they were brought up thinking they were automatically "the good guys". Similarly many ethnic Chinese have superiority complexes brought about by centuries of occasional violent annexation and continual economic domination of neighbouring states and peoples. Heng's posts, although I may not agree with the sentiment of many, I find refreshingly honest on the whole and hope he continues to say it as he thinks. Diversity is the spice of life.

I doubt you will find many American's that think we should have invaded Iraq on TV. It is my impression from the Chinese that I have dealt with is that they have a inferiority complex, not a superiority complex. They always feel that everyone looks down on them and that they have to do so much to show the rest of the world that they are its equals.

[jstumbo]

China has long been setting up economic influence in Africa, the Middle East, and South America, I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist (as much) because they want to do business.

China is gaining influence in all of the pariah states that have terrible human rights records and that western nations do not want to do business with. A country could be walking the streets killing anyone that is not of a correct ethnic group, and China would still do business with them if they could make money. If Nazi Germany was around today, China would be supplying them the gas that they used in the death chambers.

And which western countries have lived up to their own standards and put China on the pariah list?

Most of these countries have worse human rights records than China.

[Heng]

Having spent a lot of time in China, and working with a lot of ethnic Chinese in businesses in SE Asia, I am not surprised. This is genuinely how most Chinese I know feel. At the risk of being non-pc, he does have a valid point in that not all civilizations evolve at the same rate and that given some civilizations cultures, they would probably not advance very far given centuries.

It's just an honest opinion and doesn't necessarily have to equate to Nazi style master race talk. What's wrong with being non-pc?

[Heng]

China has long been setting up economic influence in Africa, the Middle East, and South America, I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist (as much) because they want to do business.

China is gaining influence in all of the pariah states that have terrible human rights records and that western nations do not want to do business with. A country could be walking the streets killing anyone that is not of a correct ethnic group, and China would still do business with them if they could make money. If Nazi Germany was around today, China would be supplying them the gas that they used in the death chambers.

And which western countries have lived up to their own standards and put China on the pariah list?

Most of these countries have worse human rights records than China.

Oh, the Chinese record is pretty bad (against its own people). But yeah, most "leading" western countries probably have a worse record when it comes to dealing with other countries... but hey, just say it's "war" and then it's okay.

[plachon]

No more so than the average American's view on TV who thinks they have the god-given right to invade other countries (like Iraq or Afghanistan) at will, just becuase they were brought up thinking they were automatically "the good guys". Similarly many ethnic Chinese have superiority complexes brought about by centuries of occasional violent annexation and continual economic domination of neighbouring states and peoples. Heng's posts, although I may not agree with the sentiment of many, I find refreshingly honest on the whole and hope he continues to say it as he thinks. Diversity is the spice of life.

I doubt you will find many American's that think we should have invaded Iraq on TV. It is my impression from the Chinese that I have dealt with is that they have a inferiority complex, not a superiority complex. They always feel that everyone looks down on them and that they have to do so much to show the rest of the world that they are its equals.

Au contraire on both points. TV is full of Yanks who think that they were in the right for invading both countries, and many are over there now, exploiting the situation for their own financial ends. even when they work in the oil industry, they swear blind it wasn't over oil and they are delivering "democracy" to the natives. Many even are proud about the US record in Vietnam and think that calamity was justified!

As for the Chinese inferiority/superiority complex issue, one only has to take our very own Heng as an example of which way it swings for most ethnic Chinese. Granted though, it helps when you are in the relative minority of wealthy native Chinese to feeling utterly superior over your poorer neighbours and colonized minorities. One only has to see the treatment of "exotic" minorities in Yunnan to appreciate that truism.

[YoungFarang13]

china's gross domestic product has always dwarfed the rest of the world even when that little island controlled most of the globe.

Edited April 16, 2008 by YoungFarang13

[YoungFarang13]

america is wrong to invade afghanistan, of course history has shown us that whoever has the most power, behaves badly. so to point your finger at america... you'd be better to point your finger at mankind - not to excuse his actions.

[Jingthing]

america is wrong to invade afghanistan, of course history has shown us that whoever has the most power, behaves badly. so to point your finger at america... you'd be better to point your finger at mankind - not to excuse his actions.

Don't you mean Iraq? Afghanistan was controlled by the Taliban. If ever a regime deserved to be invaded, they deserved it. The vast majority of Americans, right, left, and middle, support the continued military presence in Afghanistan.

[thaibebop]

Is it just me or does anyone else find Heng's posts in this thread disturbing?

Nah, just like pushing Tibetans and protesters around

And if that didn't happen, the indigenous folks would still be playing tokraw and rolling/mashing up balls of sticky rice

Our method of colonialization is both humane as it is absolute...No mess and relatively light resistance

I suppose you believe that Native Americans and Oz aboriginees would have had their own industrial revolution if left to their own rate of development?

I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist...

He sounds sick of Asian bashing expats to me.....normal for a lot of people I would think.

[Scott]

I think allowing Bejing to have the Olympics in the first place was a mistake--at least in hindsight. China and the US are both lightening rods for protest. Both are large, powerful nations who can and do use threats and intimidation to get their way.

Periodically, they use more aggressive means to 'quiet' the opposition. This doesn't discount the good things that they do, but in the case of China, the overall repression of any opposition has meant the Olympics is a good chance for otherwise silenced voices to be heard.

Meanwhile the torch is safely locked in a stadium in Pakistan for no one but the elite to see it going in a circle.

[Heng]

As for the Chinese inferiority/superiority complex issue, one only has to take our very own Heng as an example of which way it swings for most ethnic Chinese. Granted though, it helps when you are in the relative minority of wealthy native Chinese to feeling utterly superior over your poorer neighbours and colonized minorities. One only has to see the treatment of "exotic" minorities in Yunnan to appreciate that truism.

Come on, surely it's more than just a feeling.

[Heng]

Is it just me or does anyone else find Heng's posts in this thread disturbing?

Nah, just like pushing Tibetans and protesters around

And if that didn't happen, the indigenous folks would still be playing tokraw and rolling/mashing up balls of sticky rice

Our method of colonialization is both humane as it is absolute...No mess and relatively light resistance

I suppose you believe that Native Americans and Oz aboriginees would have had their own industrial revolution if left to their own rate of development?

I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist...

He sounds sick of Asian bashing expats to me.....normal for a lot of people I would think.

I wouldn't say "sick of" but really, it's pretty clear around here who has more inferiority/superiority complex issues. I'm not specifically trying to work these people up for laughs, I just remind people of certain realities... which incidentally tends to get them all worked up.

[Galong]

Generations ago? So, those people have pasted on have they not? Their descendents are now Thai are they not? My mother-in-law speaks only Thai, has a Thai name and a Thai past port, and gives her loyalty to Thailand and the King. Be careful how you generalize people, people are not so simple as demographics would have them.

Ah, that's what they want you to think. Are their loyalties solely to Thailand and the King or do they have an underlying goal to promote businesses of ethnic / semi-ethnic Chinese? I think the latter.

Take Thaksin for example... do you honestly think that he isn't in bed with China to some degree?

I don't think it's as cut and dry as you're portraying either.

[LivinLOS]

Is it just me or does anyone else find Heng's posts in this thread disturbing?

Nah, just like pushing Tibetans and protesters around

And if that didn't happen, the indigenous folks would still be playing tokraw and rolling/mashing up balls of sticky rice

Our method of colonialization is both humane as it is absolute...No mess and relatively light resistance

I suppose you believe that Native Americans and Oz aboriginees would have had their own industrial revolution if left to their own rate of development?

I wouldn't worry too much about Cambodia. People don't resist...

No actually.. I find them refreshingly honest..

I may not agree with him 100% but I do think his geopolitical assessments are pretty spot on. Especially considering his perspective and participation on this gweilo board..

[LivinLOS]

As for the Chinese inferiority/superiority complex issue, one only has to take our very own Heng as an example of which way it swings for most ethnic Chinese. Granted though, it helps when you are in the relative minority of wealthy native Chinese to feeling utterly superior over your poorer neighbours and colonized minorities. One only has to see the treatment of "exotic" minorities in Yunnan to appreciate that truism.

Come on, surely it's more than just a feeling.

Heng thats the 3rd belly laugh of this thread.. Your on a roll today !!