Dual Nationality

[Donmuang]

Hi everybody,

I am a Singaporean married to a Thai lady. We all live in Singapore and our children all hold Singapore citizenship. We have not registered with the Thai embassy for Thai birth certs and have not made any application to acquire Thai nationality for them.

I am under the impression that under international law, children who are entitiled to claim two different citizenships are permitted to keep both of them until the age of 18 before they must choose one citizenship.

It is my intention/hope that our children would be able to hold on to Thai and Singaporean nationality for life.

My question is:

SENARIO 1

if I would to make a claim for them for Thai nationality for them now, would the Thai authorities notify the Singapore authorities and as such put the kids in a situation whereby they must choose upon turning 18.....

or

SENARIO 2

Will they just grant the citizenship and passport and not carry out any further action?

If the answer is 'senario 2', would I have any problem if they exit Singapore using a Singapore passport and enter Thailand using the Thai passport? Would the immigration officers at the Thai check point query why havent the children passports have any Thai exit stamps?

Also, do anybody have any idea on what is the latest age the children could claim Thai nationality?

Thanks a lot and my very best regards:)

[Sulaphat]

I don't think that Thailand imposes an age limitation for holding Thai citizenship at the same time as holding another. I seem to recall a newspaper article a while back that named a high profile adult Thai who was born in the US and who continued (accoring to the paper) to hold both Thai and US passports. No idea about Singapore.

I would not be surprised if Thailand did not specifically require a dual national to use his or her Thai passport when entering or leaving Thailand. Singapore may have similar requirements.

You probably should check with the Immigration Departments in each country.

[phormio]

I'm a US citizen , living in the US, with a Thai wife/daughter and we have just applied for a Thai birth certificate,passport, and thus citizenship for my daughter. This topic has been discussed on the forum - try using the search function under citizenship/dual citizenship - one guy posted a link to an in depth discussion of dual citizenship about a month ago.

The King of Thailand was born in the US near Boston, though I don't know (but doubt) if he holds a US passport.

Don't forget though, that a dual citizen, if one is Thai and Male, will be eligible for national service at the age of 20 or so - you'd definitely want to check into this.

Good Luck.

[lopburi3]

Singapore does not allow dual citizenship of children born in Singapore; only if they had been born overseas would this be allowed and only until they reach age 21 when they would have to chose. If you proceed and are found out your children can lose their Singapore citizenship. Read page 3 carefully:

http://www.sif.org.sg/os/whkpdf/immigration.pdf

[Donmuang]

Thank you all for the advises.

Singapore does not allow dual citizenship of children born in Singapore; only if they had been born overseas would this be allowed and only until they reach age 21 when they would have to chose. If you proceed and are found out your children can lose their Singapore citizenship. Read page 3 carefully:

http://www.sif.org.sg/os/whkpdf/immigration.pdf

lopburi,thanks for the advise. I have checked with the Spore Immigration and I was told that its permitted so long as they renounce one when they become a certain age. I shall recheck again in case they misunderstand me.

We live in Singapore now,but its our wish to move to Thailand one day,but whats holding us back is the fact that Thai citizenship is probably two hundred times more difficult to obtain than US, UK Australian and etc citizenship.

I would never be able to own my own land, never have the right to vote and maybe even never be able to become a Thai citizen. I found it way too risky to build our future in a country where I am basically at the mercy of the Thai Government, and with the change in power, I was not so sure things would go my way. I mean, what am I going to do if I own a condo, have a wife and kids and go to the immigration office get told to leave the country within 10 days, that my work permit will not be extended? What is going to happen if I lose my job?

In such a case,its not as easy as to pack up and return to Singapore with my family. Being away in Thailand means that I have no record of any income in Singapore during my absence and that translates to difficulty in getting my application for my wife's Singapore residence approved. And if my children only hold Thai citizenship, its going to be doubly difficult to get them back to Singapore, unless of course, I am filthy rich or a big business investor, which I am unfortunately not. I don't even have a degree and I'm doing it by night classes now.

Hence, I figured that it would be best if I get Singapore citizenship for my Thai wife first. Once this is all done, I'll get a job in Thailand and move them all here as dependents. At least, if the Thai authorities kick me out, i can be assured that we can all move back to Singapore and that the family stays intact.

However, I need to know if assuming my children get to keep dual citizenship until the age of 21, but my wife renounces her Thai citizenship before the kids are 21, will they lose their Thai citizenship?

You know, this issue of moving to Thailand is so frustrating that not a day passes without me pondering over the problem. I really fear for those of you who have families here and are living here on work permits or yearly visas. You never know when the Thai authorities are going to change the rules. In the past, it cost 200k baht a year for the visa, today, it cost 400k, whats going to stop them from changing it to 800k or more in future and you'll NEVER be considered a Thai.

[lopburi3]

Thank you all for the advises.

Singapore does not allow dual citizenship of children born in Singapore; only if they had been born overseas would this be allowed and only until they reach age 21 when they would have to chose. If you proceed and are found out your children can lose their Singapore citizenship. Read page 3 carefully:

http://www.sif.org.sg/os/whkpdf/immigration.pdf

lopburi,thanks for the advise. I have checked with the Spore Immigration and I was told that its permitted so long as they renounce one when they become a certain age. I shall recheck again in case they misunderstand me.

I based my comment on the PDF document but that could be wrong; or I could be reading it wrong. As you have found out dual citizenship is a very tricky situation when one of the states does not allow it. Whatever you do be sure to get solid legal advise first.

[siamruby]

My kids also have dual Nationality, British and Thai. Recently, I have phoned the Thai embassy in London up because I wanted to get the Thai passports for my kids. I also asked them about the dual nationality and they said they can keep their Thai nationality until they are 21 after that they have to choose which one they want to be. Thailand also not allow dual nationality but by Thai law once you have Thai nationality no one can take that away from you nobody at all not even the government. If the person choose not to give up Thai nationality then no one can force them to do so. And yet as someone here once pointed it out. The Thai government also can't force the person to give up other nationality because there is nothing to do with them!!

Anyway,one word of warning from the embassy hence I told them all my kids are boys. They said if they want to keep their Thai nationality then they will be liable for national service at 21. And which the situation down south is getting worse I am really not sure about that one

[samran]

My kids also have dual Nationality, British and Thai. Recently, I have phoned the Thai embassy in London up because I wanted to get the Thai passports for my kids. I also asked them about the dual nationality and they said they can keep their Thai nationality until they are 21 after that they have to choose which one they want to be. Thailand also not allow dual nationality but by Thai law once you have Thai nationality no one can take that away from you nobody at all not even the government. If the person choose not to give up Thai nationality then no one can force them to do so. And yet as someone here once pointed it out. The Thai government also can't force the person to give up other nationality because there is nothing to do with them!!

  Anyway,one word of warning from the embassy hence I told them all my kids are boys. They said if they want to keep their Thai nationality then they will be liable for national service at 21. And which the situation down south is getting worse I am really not sure about that one

You have been given slightly incorrect information on this issue from the Thai embassy - which is not unusual as most government officials (yes even embassy officials) are clueless once it comes to the laws on dual nationality and military service. I have consulted the actual legislation for both topics and the embassy staff are a bit off the mark.

Essentially the Thai nationality Act (1992) does not prohibit dual nationality for Thai's. What it does do is give the option of the child to renounce their Thai nationality once they reach the age of 20 years - if they so wish. As it reads, they can only excersise this option between their 20th and 21st birthday, and there is no obligation for them to do so. Many officials mis-interpret this clause as saying that a child must choose his nationality at 21.

As for military service, all Thai males are eligible to report for conscription day in April, once they have completed full time education. However clauses do exist which state that if one can show cause for not reporting (ie was not resident in Thailand, or not resident in the area of their house registration), then they don't have to. This applies till the Thai male turns 30, after which the army will not accept him, even if he is conscripted. After 30, the male will simply be enlisted on the army reserve roll - to be called up in times of extreme national emergency.

In anycase, when entering and leaving Thailand, immigration do not care if you have done your military service or not. Thailand has a strong tradition of government departments keeping to their own territory and not touching others. The immigration department would never ask your son's for their military service records on entering the country.

[toppingg]

Dear, Khun Samran

I have read quite a few posts from you regarding the military services, in this case conscription. I myself don't really like the strictly procedure rules that all males when their turn 21, they have to go through the "lottery" process. Though, this is not include those who are already took part for three years as their educational time in secondary school.

I have a few questions to ask you, if you may answer. This is the situation I have at the moment;

I am currently age at 18, living in the UK and have been here since 2006. Before that, I was in Thailand, moved here after finised Matayom 3. I obtained a visa through my mother as she having the permanent residency here. It names Entry Clearance and the visa type is settlement to join parent.

The visa also specifies the date of validity which is the same as the expiry's date of my passport. I was unawared of this validity's date is actually the expiry of the visa that need to be re-new regulary.

Fortunately but not certainly, I had a trip to Barcelona and at the time of arrival back to UK, being told by immigration control that "your visa is expiring soon". I had four days left back then and it really put me off. I talked to my parents and we decided to make applications for British Citizens which was succesful. And that put me as dual nationals, is it not??

My future planing is that to stay here but again I still want to go in-out Thailand for visiting just about a month long without a problem. However, the issue that I may encounter soon enough is the conscription. Well, I dont even want to take part from the begining.

I knowing that it is against laws if im not taking part of the process but reading yours comment saying that when a person turned 30, he will not be accepted.

So, the question is :

Is there by any chance that I dont have to go through it?

Though it sounds selfish and unfair for the others but what I am thinking of a year worth is much more than practicing army for nothing!!

As far as my concern to the country itself, DO THE COUNTRY REALLY NEED SOLDIERS, WHAT FOR?? get ready for WWIII or something??

Well, am really off the topic from begining to end, sorry abut that,

Am really am looking forward to your answer.

Thanks

[toppingg]

And just another question:

Can I still use my Thai passport even though the visa is already out of date?

[ubonjoe]

For you questions on miltary service I suggest you search a few Thai goverment websites that may cover it better than anweres you get on this forum. The rules often change so what you read on this more than 4 year old topic may no longer be correct.

My understanding is that during your 21st birth year you will be called for the draft. This is done at the distrcit level twice a year, You are given a number and then they draw the amount of numbers needed for that drawing if your number is not drawn you are free and clear.

For your other questions.

You are allowed dual natioanlity.

You should have a passport for the UK which would allow you to enter the UK. You already have a Thai passport.

When you want to travel to Thailand you would use both passports.

Upon departure from the UK you would show the airlline your Thai passport to show that you don't need a visa. And the UK to depart from the UK.

You then would use your Thai passport to enter Thailand.

When leaving show your UK passport at the airline checkin to show you can enter the UK. And your Thai one to prove you were here legaly. Then your Thai passport for the immigration departure check.

Then the UK passport to enter the UK.

You do not need a visa for either country.

[TerryLH]

"Can I still use my Thai passport even though the visa is already out of date?"

"The visa also specifies the date of validity which is the same as the expiry's date of my passport."

Did you answer your own question?

If your passport is expired, you normally can't use it.

Regarding conscription, I believe they get the names off of house registrations. If you are not listed on a house registration here, they won't be expecting you to show up for the lottery.

No offense to UJ, but I think Samran is pretty much up to speed on this stuff.

[konfuzed]

I was told by the british embassy a couple years ago when i got my then new baby's UK passport - when he already had his thai passport - that the immigration officials could be a bit narky and the thing to do was to go back to the UK embassy with both passports and they would put a stamp in the thai passport that gives the same entry rights pretty much as if you arrived on a uk passport.

woops not really totally relevant here - was reading another post and replied in here sorry...

Ok, i have a singaporean mate who got an aussie passport to avoid doing his singapore military service, now he can only visit singapore. he can't go back and work even on a working visa.

he lost his singaporean as he didn't do the military service.

Thailand does have an ROTC training corps which you can do instead of national service.

Edited February 17, 2009 by konfuzed

[coventry]

I was told by the british embassy a couple years ago when i got my then new baby's UK passport - when he already had his thai passport - that the immigration officials could be a bit narky and the thing to do was to go back to the UK embassy with both passports and they would put a stamp in the thai passport that gives the same entry rights pretty much as if you arrived on a uk passport.

woops not really totally relevant here - was reading another post and replied in here sorry...

Ok, i have a singaporean mate who got an aussie passport to avoid doing his singapore military service, now he can only visit singapore. he can't go back and work even on a working visa.

he lost his singaporean as he didn't do the military service.

Thailand does have an ROTC training corps which you can do instead of national service.

Thailand doesn't recognise 'Dual Nationality' full stop. Even though there's a few on this forum that will insist that it is legal and have got away with, it for now. Google the question and you will get a positive answer. Germany being another country that wont recognise it. Try telling that to a person who thinks the has and they won't believe it.

There are people that will insist that it is legal on this forum and they are the are the one's that have skirted the law. All well and good in that you want to skirt the law, but when the shit hits the fan then............ Thaivisa please do not spread disinformation and say it's legal. We've been down this road before. Loads of 'Mods' claiming to be of dual nationality but no legal defiition stated by a legal practioner. The only advice to be acceptable. Ask Sunbelt ? I will appologise if I stand corrected by a legal practitioner.

Edited February 17, 2009 by coventry

[Mario2008]

Thailand doesn't recognise 'Dual Nationality' full stop. Even though there's a few on this forum that will insist that it is legal and have got away with, it for now. Google the question and you will get a positive answer. Germany being another country that wont recognise it. Try telling that to a person who thinks the has and they won't believe it.

There are people that will insist that it is legal on this forum and they are the are the one's that have skirted the law. All well and good in that you want to skirt the law, but when the shit hits the fan then............ Thaivisa please do not spread disinformation and say it's legal. We've been down this road before. Loads of 'Mods' claiming to be of dual nationality but no legal defiition stated by a legal practioner. The only advice to be acceptable. Ask Sunbelt ? I will appologise if I stand corrected by a legal practitioner.

Your comments are against the exeprience of many members of this forum and not supported by the Thai nationality act. http://chiangmai2.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/l...0705659203.html

I have to agree that many civil servant have aproblem with dual nationality, but I don't think you can show me where the law states that dual nationality is not allowed.

[Maestro]

Thailand doesn't recognise 'Dual Nationality' full stop...

Kindly give a link to your source.

--

Maestro

[toppingg]

<br />&quot;Can I still use my Thai passport even though the visa is already out of date?&quot; <br />&quot;The visa also specifies the date of validity which is the same as the expiry's date of my passport.&quot;<br /><br />Did you answer your own question?<br />If your passport is expired, you normally can't use it.<br /><br />Regarding conscription, I believe they get the names off of house registrations. If you are not listed on a house registration here, they won't be expecting you to show up for the lottery.<br /><br />No offense to UJ, but I think Samran is pretty much up to speed on this stuff.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Firstly, I apologise for digging this 4 years old topic up.<br /><br />and also Sorry that i havnt clarified my question properly,<br />start again shall we?<br />my passport have just got extension for another two years , and that was done before the visa expired. Now it's expired and simply useless. <br /><br />what i tried to ask was if I use my thai passport on departure from UK to Thailand, will there be any problem? (ie the stamps)<br /><br />the question has already been answered by Ubonjoe, many thanks.<br /><br />About the military service, <br /><br />what if when I turned 21 and I did not stay presence in the kingdom?<br />I assume that if I went back to thailand, I have to report myself to the district level, Right?<br /><br /> <br /><br /> Edited February 17, 2009 by toppingg

[ubonjoe]

lt;br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Firstly, I apologise for digging this 4 years old topic up.<br /><br />and also Sorry that i havnt clarified my question properly,<br />start again shall we?<br />my passport have just got extension for another two years , and that was done before the visa expired. Now it's expired and simply useless. <br /><br />what i tried to ask was if I use my thai passport on departure from UK to Thailand, will there be any problem? (ie the stamps)<br /><br />the question has already been answered by Ubonjoe, many thanks.<br /><br />About the military service, <br /><br />what if when I turned 21 and I did not stay presence in the kingdom?<br />I assume that if I went back to thailand, I have to report myself to the district level, Right?<br /><br /> <br /><br />

Please clarify your statement in orginal post where your parents got you citizenship. I based my reply in that. If that is correct you do not have to worry about the visa. And you can get a passport for the UK.

You are probably in a house book somewhere since you have a Thai passport and probably an ID card.

You should check to see what exemptions are possible for the draft.

If your Thai passport is expired you can still enter Thailand using it.

[piet pompies]

Chapter 2 Section 14 of Nationality act seems to say that if the child wants to retain foreign citizenship he/she is REQUIRED to apply to give up Thai. Please read and advise if I read this wrong.

[ubonjoe]

It says something like that but If they don't do it there is no inforcement becasue to take it away is very hard.

I would not even venture to guess how many Thais there are that have dual nationality.

[Mario2008]

Chapter 2 Section 14 of Nationality act seems to say that if the child wants to retain foreign citizenship he/she is REQUIRED to apply to give up Thai. Please read and advise if I read this wrong.

As Joe said, there is no penalty on not choosing. Also, this applies to a limited number of cases of dual nationality, not to all cases.

Have a look here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Applying-Tha...50&start=50

Posts 55 and 56 and follwoing are related to this question.

[samran]

Chapter 2 Section 14 of Nationality act seems to say that if the child wants to retain foreign citizenship he/she is REQUIRED to apply to give up Thai. Please read and advise if I read this wrong.

and that is the stupidity with the way the law is written.

The wording basically implies the following: If I want to continue to keep my Australian citizenship, I must apply to give up my Thai citizenship (and only between ages 20 and 21..)??? Read this line again. That's right, the Thai law implies that they somehow have a say in me keeping my non-Thai citizenship.

So then, how does keeping my Aust citizenship have ANYTHING to do with keeping my Thai citizenship.

- If I don't elect to give up my Thai citizenship, can the Thai government take away my Australian citizenship? (No, the Aust govt is the only one who decides it can strip citizenship off, and it is certainly CAN'T from naturally born citizens like I am)

- What if I don't decide to give up my Thai citizenship..nothing in the law says they can take the Thai citizenship away from me if I don't make a choice (context here...previous versions of the act did say explicitly a choice needed to be made, "or else". The third edition of the act, which is the one you quote, has had the 'or else' taken out)

- What if, like my daughters, they are born to a Thai father and a foreign mother? The section you quote, even on a literal reading, doesn't apply to them.

I could go on, but I prefer to live in the delusional world "Coventry" insists I am living in and the three imaginary Thai passports I've travelled on for the past two decades.....(in adition to my Australian ones).....

Edited February 18, 2009 by samran

[js1]

Hi everybody,

I am a Singaporean married to a Thai lady. We all live in Singapore and our children all hold Singapore citizenship. We have not registered with the Thai embassy for Thai birth certs and have not made any application to acquire Thai nationality for them.

I am under the impression that under international law, children who are entitiled to claim two different citizenships are permitted to keep both of them until the age of 18 before they must choose one citizenship.

It is my intention/hope that our children would be able to hold on to Thai and Singaporean nationality for life.

My question is:

SENARIO 1

if I would to make a claim for them for Thai nationality for them now, would the Thai authorities notify the Singapore authorities and as such put the kids in a situation whereby they must choose upon turning 18.....

or

SENARIO 2

Will they just grant the citizenship and passport and not carry out any further action?

If the answer is 'senario 2', would I have any problem if they exit Singapore using a Singapore passport and enter Thailand using the Thai passport? Would the immigration officers at the Thai check point query why havent the children passports have any Thai exit stamps?

Also, do anybody have any idea on what is the latest age the children could claim Thai nationality?

Thanks a lot and my very best regards:)

I have a daughter with my Thai GF and she can hold UK and Thai dual nationality for life. Maybe the rules are different for SG?

[Mario2008]

I have a daughter with my Thai GF and she can hold UK and Thai dual nationality for life. Maybe the rules are different for SG?

Yes. Although Thailand allows it, other countries don't allow dual Nationality. Believe that if one has another nationality beside SG, one loses SG nationality.

Edit:

Best ask advice from a SG based lawyer to be sure.

[Old Man River]

I would not even venture to guess how many Thais there are that have dual nationality.

Make a guess and then the answer will be more than that.

The only time this ever comes up is when it deals with suspected terrorists coming in from the south, but then the issue is dropped as there are just too many Thai duals (of all nationalities - living in Thailand and abroad) to make an issue of it.

For those that think it is illegal, think back and remember when Tiger Woods came to Thailand the first time and he was offered Thai nationality to go with his US citizenship.

[samran]

Thailand doesn't recognise 'Dual Nationality' full stop.

I will appologise if I stand corrected by a legal practitioner.

A Lawyer

www.lorenz.co.th/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,177/Itemid,6/lang,en/

Page 3, Section II, line 4

I used google and everything....

The government

"Section 13 of the Citizenship Act 1965 stipulates that a female Thai national who marries a foreigner and is later granted citizenship by her foreign husband’s home country shall maintain her Thai nationality.

There is no Thai law that stipulates that she must lose her Thai citizenship. However, she may choose to revoke her Thai citizenship, a decision the Thai government will announce the Government Gazette.

For Thai children with dual nationality, the Citizenship Act (3rd issue) 1992 states that a Thai national with a foreign father may declare his or her intention to revoke Thai nationality within the year following the child’s 20th birthday.

The law does not mention that the child will automatically have his or her Thai citizenship revoked. If the child does not declare his or her intention to revoke Thai citizenship, that child will still hold Thai nationality.” Satchaphand Atthakor, Deputy Director-General, Consular Affairs Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Also

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/1071.php

พ.ร.บ. สัญชาติ พ.ศ. 2508 แก้ไขโดย พ.ร.บ. สัญชาติ (ฉบับที่2 และฉบับที่3) พ.ศ. 2535 มิได้มีบทบัญญัติกำหนดเกี่ยวกับผู้มีสัญชาติไทยและสัญชาติอื่นในขณะเดียวกันไว้โดยตรง และไม่ได้มีบทบัญญัติกำหนดว่าให้ผู้ที่มีสัญชาติไทย และสัญชาติอื่นในขณะเดียวกันต้องเสียสัญชาติไทยเพราะข้อเท็จจริงที่บุคคลนั้นมีสัญชาติอื่นอยู่ด้วย ดังนั้น หากบุคคลผู้ถือสัญชาติไทยและสัญชาติอื่นในขณะเดียวกันมิได้แสดงเจตนาสละสัญชาติไทย หรือกระทำการใดที่อาจเป็นเหตุให้องค์กรของรัฐถอนสัญชาติ และไม่มีสถานการณ์ที่บุคคลอาจเสียสัญชาติ หรือกระทำการใดที่เป็นการยอมรับว่าตนเป็นคนต่างด้าว บุคคลนั้นจึงสามารถถือสัญชาติไทยและสัญชาติอื่นได้ในขณะเดียวกัน ส่วนบุคคลนั้นจะเสียอีกสัญชาติหนึ่งหรือไม่ประการใดก็ย่อมเป็นไปตามกฎหมายสัญชาติของประเทศนั้น ทั้งนี้ คุณดวงใจฯ สามารถหาข้อมูลเพิ่มเติมและข้อมูลในทางปฎิบัติได้จากกระทรวงมหาดไทย ซึ่งเป็นหน่วยงานผู้รักษาการพ.ร.บ.สัญชาติฯ

Edited February 18, 2009 by samran

[Arkady]

My reading of Singaporean nationality law is that children who have foreign nationality as well as Singaporean nationality as a result of birth on foreign soil or birth in Singapore to a foreign parent are allowed to retain dual nationality until they reach the age of 22. In order to retain Singaporean nationality after 22, they must show evidence that the foreign nationality has been renounced. Otherwise the Singaporean authorities may revoke their Singaporean nationality. For males military service complicates things and they are not allowed to renounce Singaporean nationality after the age of 11 until they have done their military service. A boy might be in the interesting situation of having to do military service in both Singapore and Thailand, although the Thai military service can be avoided by those who live abroad until they are 30. The OP's wife will have to show evidence that she has renounced her Thai nationality in order to be become naturalized as a Singaporean. She can later apply to have her Thai nationality restored if she presents evidence that her marriage to the foreign national, whose nationality she adopted, has been dissolved. Former Thai citizens who have voluntarily renounced their citizenship have the right to permanent residence in Thailand and I believe this can be processed in a relatively fast track way without going through the normal application process for those who have never been Thai.

One thing I am not sure of is how would the Singaporean authorities know the OP's children have dual nationality, if they always use their Singaporean passports to travel everywhere, including Thailand? In this situation, they are subject to Thai immigration control and need a visa for Thailand (although minors cannot be charged with overstaying) but they can still use their Thai ID cards to buy land, visit national parks for B40 etc, etc. If Singapore asks when they turn 22, they can say they never took up their rights to Thai citizenship. If they decide to live and work in Thailand as adults, they might want to renounce their Singaporean nationality or maybe Singapore will even change the law and allow dual nationality by then. That way they would keep the option of owning land in Thailand, which would be useful, if the OP's wife gave up her Thai nationality, as well as keeping the option of being openly Thai, if they want. From expat friends in Singapore with local wives I believe there are many children in Singapore who keep another nationality discretely in their back pockets, so they don't have to renounce it at 22. Singaporean passports are handy for travelling without visas to most developed countries, unlike Thai passports which can mainly be used for visa free travel only to small island republics in the South Pacific.

I am not sure of all the circumstances but I would think it would be better for the OP's wife to apply only for PR in Singapore, not citizenship, and not go through the hassle of applying to renounce her Thai nationality, which I think involves some tedious bureaucracy with the Thai Interior Ministry and probably takes some time. If the family might want to live in Thailand at some point, this seems to make sense. If the wife remains Thai, the OP would be entitled to apply for Thai citizenship himself, although this would result in the loss of his Singaporean citizenship.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Arkady

[Arkady]

By chance I met some one who has the same situation as the OP since I posted above. His solution for the children: get Thai passports from the Thai Embassy in Singapore; a girl can be put on a tabien baan in Thailand and get an Thai ID card at 15; boys wait till they are 30 to get on a tabien baan and apply for Thai ID to being called up for military service in Thailaind as well as Singapore. Children always use Singapore passports to travel and avoid letting Singapore authorities know they have another citizenship. Thai wife retains Thai citizenship and is a PR in Singapore with no need to apply for Singapore citizenship. Quite simple.