Atm Scams

[Sheryl]

A week ago, I returned from Cambodia and found my ATM card wouldn't work. Went to the bank and was told that access had been shut off due to more than 3 attempts to access the account using an incorrect PIN. However, card had been in my posession exclusively and I had not made any access attempts during that time, wasn't even in the country.

The bank re-opened access and I hoped it was just a computer glitch. A week passed, no need to use ATM and card always in my posession.

Yesterday tried to use it and again, found access blocked because of more than 3 incorrect PIN entries.

For sure, nobody did this using my actual card. But having occurred twice now I have to assume something is going on. I've vaguely heard about ATM scams resulting from people getting hold of one of your ATM receipts, altho I don't know how this works. I can't rule out the possibility of someone having gotten hold of one of my ATM receipts or my bank account number, I just know nobody had the card.

Can anyone shed some light on this? The bank just gives me condescending smiles and insists that I have made incorrect PIN entries. I know I haven't and am concerned that maybe there is a need to shut down the account and reopen under a new account number???

Also, of course, would like to figure out how this might have hapened i.e. if it was an inside job and need to start worrying about the maid etc. Never had any problems with her or reason to doubt her before.

Thanks...

[lopburi3]

Do not believe they can make an ATM card just from receipt (at least not BBL as the card number has nothing to do with the account number). I suspect your card was read at a skimmer ATM but they did not observe your PIN so have cloned it and trying various combinations.

Get a new card and have that card canceled would be my advise - but I am no expert.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Get the bank to issue a new card with a new number asap. Carry the card on your person at all times to eliminate the maid as a suspect. Good luck Sheryl.

[burman]

Yep, new card, new number, it's the first thing to do. Better to be safe than sorry.

[Guest Reimar]

First at all I would order the Bank to change my Account to an new one with new number and new ATM card. That could be done within minutes!

Second, I never leave the receipts in the rubbish bin near the ATM machine, always use my own bin.

It's quite easy to program an ATM Card if you've an Magnet Stripe Reader/Programmer, 3 lines. Just need an old ATM Card from the same Bank and need to change the ACC No.

The PIN Code is stored on your account at the bank and NOT on the card.

Depend how good you know the people in your Bank, you can also force them to change the PIN No. to one you like to have.

Cheers.

[Sheryl]

Get the bank to issue a new card with a new number asap. Carry the card on your person at all times to eliminate the maid as a suspect. Good luck Sheryl.

I do always have the card on me and am 100% sure the maid never had the card, if she had anything to do with this she would have had to have worked from only the account number or numbers on the card (she had the opportunity to see those, but not to take the card anywhere).

Possible that someone found either an ATM recipt or bank statement in my trash. I tear them up before discarding but not always that throughly.

Or maybe a "skimmer ATM" .. what is that exactly? An ATM machine rigged to make card copies??

Thanks

Sheryl

[lopburi3]

It records the information on the magnetic strip so they can make a dup - normally they also observe you to get the pin, either in person or with a camera. This has been used often lately here in Thailand. Normally a false ATM card slot is fixed on top of the normal opening so always good to give it a good look/hit before using.

[ajarnmark]

First at all I would order the Bank to change my Account to an new one with new number and new ATM card. That could be done within minutes!

Second, I never leave the receipts in the rubbish bin near the ATM machine, always use my own bin.

It's quite easy to program an ATM Card if you've an Magnet Stripe Reader/Programmer, 3 lines. Just need an old ATM Card from the same Bank and need to change the ACC No.

The PIN Code is stored on your account at the bank and NOT on the card.

Depend how good you know the people in your Bank, you can also force them to change the PIN No. to one you like to have.

Cheers.

And your bin is emptied directly in the Gulf of Thailand?

One can chaneg PIN by himself, me thinks

Edited May 26, 2008 by ajarnmark

[seagull]

Pin could be changed at your whim & fancy at atm machines. but changing pin would not help if your card has been skimmed. A person could simply skimmed your card whilst you are not looking, returned it to you or placed it back at where it was taken, without you realising it.

Like most poster suggested....... closed the account and re-open another with a new atm card. Better safe than sorry.

[Old Man River]

It records the information on the magnetic strip so they can make a dup - normally they also observe you to get the pin, either in person or with a camera. This has been used often lately here in Thailand. Normally a false ATM card slot is fixed on top of the normal opening so always good to give it a good look/hit before using.

Since we are all at risk and I keep hearing about false ATM card slots (but admittedly I don't really look closely), what I should be looking for is one slot on top of the other, correct?

[Old Man River]

It records the information on the magnetic strip so they can make a dup - normally they also observe you to get the pin, either in person or with a camera. This has been used often lately here in Thailand. Normally a false ATM card slot is fixed on top of the normal opening so always good to give it a good look/hit before using.

Since we are all at risk and I keep hearing about false ATM card slots (but admittedly I don't really look closely), what I should be looking for is one slot on top of the other, correct?

Above is a stupid question (since you already said one on top of the other). What I meant to ask is are there any other things we should look for at the ATM machine which might also indicate a scam?

[Heng]

Sticking to *inside bank branch* atm locations increases your safety a bit. I doubt cons would have the b@lls to setup a skimmer on a machine inside such well covered with cc camera type areas.

[chickenslegs]

Take a look at www.snopes.com/fraud/atm/atmcamera.asp

This site will explain all.

Sorry, I havn't learned how to create links.

[JetsetBkk]

... are there any other things we should look for at the ATM machine which might also indicate a scam?

Pictures of ATM skimmers: http://72.14.205.104/images?hl=en&safe...q=atm%20skimmer

I tend to use ATMs in shopping malls or inside banks.

If I have to use one I've never used before, I generally give the front a good visual inspection and even give the card slot a tug to see if it moves. I also always cover the keyboard while entering the PIN even if there is nobody near - the cameras used to monitor the keyboard are extremely small.

[Sheryl]

Just back from bank, had old ATM card cancelled and new one reissued. Also had them dig out the computer records to find out when all this started. From the dates, it is evident this was done from an old ATM recipt, not the card, so it wasn't a skimmer ATM (pluso f course if it had been they'd likely have had my PIN). It's also evident from dates that maid had nothing to do with it.

I vaguely recall cleaning out my wallet and tossing out old receipts just before returning to Thailand. Mostly store receipts but an ATM recipt or two as well, I think I did that in the Phnom Penh airport around 9 AM. By 2 PM same day (when I first tried to use the card in Thailand) the ATM card access had already been shut down because of someone making repeat attemtops to use a fcsimile of my card with the wrong pin. So apparently the folks who do this can do it very, very fast....and across interbnational borders.

The good news is they didn't manage to get anything as the bank (Thai Farmers or whatvere they knopw call themselves) has a mechanism whereby 3 wrong PIN tries in a row and ATM access is automatically shut down.

I will certainly be vigilant from now on with ATM recipts. I notice that more and more machines now give you the option of printing or not printing the recipt, which helps.

Thanks to all for advice.

[Sparkles]

It records the information on the magnetic strip so they can make a dup - normally they also observe you to get the pin, either in person or with a camera. This has been used often lately here in Thailand. Normally a false ATM card slot is fixed on top of the normal opening so always good to give it a good look/hit before using.

2 years ago my daughter was holidaying in Thailand. She had her ATM Visa card ,debit card not credit, she only used in once in Nong Khai . When she got back to Aus the account was empty. Approx $650 was gone. She went straight to the bank and was told "Oh you have been in Thailand this often happens" My daughter replied "well if it happens a lot why dont you warn your customers" ? This was met with a blank response. At no time was the ATM card out of her bag. We can only think it was copied at the ATM machine .I have seen a picture of a camera disguised as a box attached to a nearby wall whether that was genuine I dont know.The bank eventually replaced the money as the withdrawal date was after my daughter returned by one day proven by her passport entries.

The banks have a responsibilty to warn customers but seem loathe to do this as it makes them look pretty stupid and may give their customers the impression that they are pretty inept at preventing fraud

[jayjayjayjay]

I always dig around a bit at the machines before slipping my cards in now. I guess with a bit of engineering background I am looking for fake faceplates on the ATM. If I ever find one it will be interesting..... Check up the faceplates when using ATM, make sure the wear and tear on them, colour of plastics etc all match the entire machine.........

[Cuban]

Instructions for use - applies to every ATM machine in the world.

Place your 'typing in' hand on the numeric key pad, then cover closely the top of that hand with your other hand or wallet (closed) etc.

Type in your PIN number.

Remove your covering hand and wipe or just touch every other button on the nurmeric keypad. (after you have finished your transaction) - too easy to apply a mild dye to the keys and see what buttons you pressed after you have left the ATM. Example if your PIN was 3333 - they would have got your PIN in one hit easy. The links above on ATM skimming will alarm you if you are unaware of this technique.

[Mobi]

Sheryl, for your own piece of mind I strongly recommend you go to Kasikorn Thai and open a new account, and transfer all your funds from the old to the new one, and get an ATM card on the new account.

You should be able to get it done in about 30 minutes and you will only have to pay for the new ATM card.

Better safe than sorry - as someone may details of your old account, and keep trying to extract money.