Chiangmai And Tourism

[fiscalist]

I knew when I wrote the title that this post is a dangerous one. but...

Reading different posts, the only thing I read is that Chiangmai had a bad tourist season for many reasons. Airline operators are leaving CM because there is low demand for flights etc.

If this continues, what will happen to CM?

I mean we, retirees, are having a great time here despite the smog once a year etc. What will happen to the tourist market? What will happen with all the new build hotels? What will happen to the Thai and farang who have a business related with tourism?

I have many questions about this and I am sure you also can add some. I would love to read them and reply with my opinion.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I knew when I wrote the title that this post is a dangerous one. but...

Reading different posts, the only thing I read is that Chiangmai had a bad tourist season for many reasons. Aircraft companies are leaving CM because there is low demand for flights etc.

If this continues, what will happen to CM?

I mean we, retirees, are having a great time here despite the smog once a year etc. What will happen to the tourist market? What will happen with all the new build hotels? What will happen to the Thai and farang who have a business related with tourism?

I have many questions about this and I am sure you also can add some. I would love to read them and reply with my opinion.

I will hazard a guess and say it would depress prices which would probably lure more visitors...The trend of higher petroleum prices does not auger well for a tourist destination country like Thailand. Travelers will be less likely to visit with higher airfares. The Govt might try some sort of hail mary and legalize gambling or other ploy to attract people. I don't think that would entice many people to visit because a lot of other gambling destinations already exist and new ones are being added to S. Korea, Singapore and talk about Hainen Island in China. They sure aren't going to be luring people with promises of fast bandwidth or clean air.

The past draw has been low prices, partying and Thai girls.... If I had to bet I would say more of the same. So good news for Expats and longterm visitors as visa's might loosen a little bit also.

[sabaijai]

I think it's too soon to draw any conclusions. Personally I'm optimistic but much depends on the city management. Ask again in five years Actually Chiang Mai tourism has been pronounced dead many times, yet the general trend continues upward in terms of visitation, even with down cycles.

[davidgtr]

The future of tourism here is other Asian. If you only think farang, you're missing a lot. There are thousands of other Asians who come, but because they look a bit like Thais it does not register.

So I personally don't think tourism is going down at all.

Just look at all the new vehicle rental places / hotels / ghouses / restaurants / bars / massage places etc. They all opened because there was business there. In low season many of them struggle & don't we all in low season - tell us something new.

Also some of my mates with travel offices for 10 yrs are having their best years, & their customers are mainly farang.

So again I don't think tourism is going down - the volume is still there, but the market's changing & so the businesses need to change to keep up with the times.

[Priceless]

The future of tourism here is other Asian. If you only think farang, you're missing a lot. There are thousands of other Asians who come, but because they look a bit like Thais it does not register.

So I personally don't think tourism is going down at all.

Just look at all the new vehicle rental places / hotels / ghouses / restaurants / bars / massage places etc. They all opened because there was business there. In low season many of them struggle & don't we all in low season - tell us something new.

Also some of my mates with travel offices for 10 yrs are having their best years, & their customers are mainly farang.

So again I don't think tourism is going down - the volume is still there, but the market's changing & so the businesses need to change to keep up with the times.

I think you have a very valid and interesting point: Being farang, we tend to overlook the largest groups of foreign visitors to Thailand. According to the TAT (Tourism Authority of Thailand) there were in 2007 the following numbers of visitors from a number of Asian countries (TAT's source is the Immigration Bureau):

Malaysia: 1,551,959

Japan: 1,248,700

South Korea: 1,075,516

China: 1,003,141

Compare those numbers to the top four "farang" countries:

United Kingdom: 746,422

Australia: 638,126

USA: 623,638

Germany: 537,200

I think we have to realise that in comparison we are small fry

/ Priceless

[fiscalist]

This is interesting.

Is there also a chart about how, where and how much these people spend?

[shepsel]

I think that Chiang Mai has to "brand" itself as a special city in Thailand to visit, and give the reasons why one must come here. I don't know if there is a Chamber of Commerce and a special Tourism department that deals with Chiang Mai province as their special interest, but something has to be available for tourists before they make their plans to visit Thailand, that their visit in incomplete without their visit. I have also noticed that, although there are several tourist brochures there is not a complete one listing all types of restaurants, entertainment places, eco-tours, other than letting the paid advertisers list their own establishments. It seems that the visitor really has to educate themselves before hand on how they want to entertain themselves, there should be a journalist writing up some varied itineraries for "X" amount of days and so on. Also, the magazines should be left in each hotel/guest house room at the beginning of a visitors stay rather than on a rack that is seldom refilled once the initial supply runs out. There are so many good things to "brag" about in Chiang Mai, and this should be done to catch the interest of the tourist.

[PeaceBlondie]

We do not know if those tourist figures from TAT and Immigration apply to Chiang Mai, but note that there are twice as many Asian tourists as Caucasian tourists. Fiscalist, I doubt they come to Chiang Mai to eat Western food. It might explain the large number of Japanese and Korean restaurants, but where are the Chinese restaurants? OTOH, the Asian tourists may come here to eat Thai food, visit Buddhist temples, ride elephants, be warm in the winter, etc.

[Bill97]

The future of tourism here is other Asian. If you only think farang, you're missing a lot. There are thousands of other Asians who come, but because they look a bit like Thais it does not register.

So I personally don't think tourism is going down at all.

Just look at all the new vehicle rental places / hotels / ghouses / restaurants / bars / massage places etc. They all opened because there was business there. In low season many of them struggle & don't we all in low season - tell us something new.

Also some of my mates with travel offices for 10 yrs are having their best years, & their customers are mainly farang.

So again I don't think tourism is going down - the volume is still there, but the market's changing & so the businesses need to change to keep up with the times.

I think you have a very valid and interesting point: Being farang, we tend to overlook the largest groups of foreign visitors to Thailand. According to the TAT (Tourism Authority of Thailand) there were in 2007 the following numbers of visitors from a number of Asian countries (TAT's source is the Immigration Bureau):

Malaysia: 1,551,959

Japan: 1,248,700

South Korea: 1,075,516

China: 1,003,141

Compare those numbers to the top four "farang" countries:

United Kingdom: 746,422

Australia: 638,126

USA: 623,638

Germany: 537,200

I think we have to realise that in comparison we are small fry

/ Priceless

Yes, and I think if you dig further you will find that significant growth in recent years is from the Asian countries except perhaps Malaysia due to the problems in the south.

[ovenman]

Yes, and I think if you dig further you will find that significant growth in recent years is from the Asian countries except perhaps Malaysia due to the problems in the south.

But I'd bet that Chiang Mai itself has seen a lot of growth from Malaysian tourists. The daily AirAsia flight from Kuala Lumpur is usually packed with Malaysian tourists.

[cmsally]

I was surprised that the Tiger Airways flights were discontinued. That must have been a bad step for tourism. They were nearly always full. Lots of Singaporeans and many many expats used to use the flights. Many times had friends trying to travel up here and just couldn't get a flight and it wasn't even a holiday.

[ovenman]

I was surprised that the Tiger Airways flights were discontinued.

I was too but according to somebody on the other thread, it was due to a hefty increase in airport fees. But that's par for the course, isn't it? One governmental group has a particular set of goals/targets they are trying to achieve (e.g. increase tourism) and another group does their best to see that doesn't occur (e.g. decrease overall number of arrivals through their own greed).

[Ajarn]

Why should I care about the business success of Joe Blow or if airlines are coming here. I could care less, but I hope to see Chiang Mai go back to what it was like in 1986, when I first showed up. It was a nicer town then.

[tigerbeer]

Why should I care about the business success of Joe Blow or if airlines are coming here. I could care less, but I hope to see Chiang Mai go back to what it was like in 1986, when I first showed up. It was a nicer town then.

same way i would like to see las vegas go back to what it was in 1986?? move on buddy..

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The future of tourism here is other Asian. If you only think farang, you're missing a lot. There are thousands of other Asians who come, but because they look a bit like Thais it does not register.

So I personally don't think tourism is going down at all.

Just look at all the new vehicle rental places / hotels / ghouses / restaurants / bars / massage places etc. They all opened because there was business there. In low season many of them struggle & don't we all in low season - tell us something new.

Also some of my mates with travel offices for 10 yrs are having their best years, & their customers are mainly farang.So again I don't think tourism is going down - the volume is still there, but the market's changing & so the businesses need to change to keep up with the times.

I think you have a very valid and interesting point: Being farang, we tend to overlook the largest groups of foreign visitors to Thailand. According to the TAT (Tourism Authority of Thailand) there were in 2007 the following numbers of visitors from a number of Asian countries (TAT's source is the Immigration Bureau):

Malaysia: 1,551,959

Japan: 1,248,700

South Korea: 1,075,516

China: 1,003,141

Compare those numbers to the top four "farang" countries:

United Kingdom: 746,422

Australia: 638,126

USA: 623,638

Germany: 537,200

I think we have to realise that in comparison we are small fry

/ Priceless

Has anyone found Chiang Mai specific tourism data? Looking at Thailand wide statistics could be very misleading as growth might be occurring in Phuket, Pattaya, Koh Samui, Krabi, BKK etc.

I would be really interested in seeing Chiang Mai specific air traveler visits and country source. Does any data like that exist?

Are there any domestic air traffic estimates. Maybe more tourists are flying BKK to CM. Living near the CNX it seems that flights are down but maybe I am mistaken.

If tourists are arriving by taking 8 hour overnight bus rides then those are more budget tourists.

My impression from talking to a few merchants on Loh Kroh is that the Asian tourists from Korea and China are baht pinchers. It might require 2 or 3 + new Asian tourists to replace the loss of one western tourist who seem to spend more on supporting their Thai GF's and living large.

I am hoping things pick up and more air routes are added to CM. A direct route from CM to Kumming or any mainland China would be great. Air Asia has been promising a BKK to Kumming route but still not offered. Are there any new CM ==> new destinations that I have missed?

[miltonbentley]

Chiang Mai stats based on hotel and guesthouse occupancy returns used to be available in the TAT Office on the river road between Dukes and Rimping. I got some from there a couple of years so not if sure they are still available. They gave information on visitor nationality their total and average spend although how they collate the financial statistics is beyond me.

[ovenman]

A direct route from CM to Kumming or any mainland China would be great.

THAI has flown Chiang Mai-Kunming for at least ten years.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

A direct route from CM to Kumming or any mainland China would be great.

THAI has flown Chiang Mai-Kunming for at least ten years.

Yes that's the flight I have always used but you have to stop in BKK. If there was more demand then I would expect there to be direct flights without the extra hours of travel... The existing CNX -- BKK -- KMG taks 6 hours each way when direct it would be about 2 hours.

[ovenman]

The existing CNX -- BKK -- KMG taks 6 hours each way when direct it would be about 2 hours.

THAI flies from Chiang Mai to Kunming non-stop on Thursdays and Sundays and has been doing so for at least the past ten years. The flight leaves Chiang Mai at 14:25 and arrives Kunming ninety-five minutes later at 17:00 (local time). The return flight departs Kunming at 18:15, arriving Chiang Mai at 18:50.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The existing CNX -- BKK -- KMG taks 6 hours each way when direct it would be about 2 hours.

THAI flies from Chiang Mai to Kunming non-stop on Thursdays and Sundays and has been doing so for at least the past ten years. The flight leaves Chiang Mai at 14:25 and arrives Kunming ninety-five minutes later at 17:00 (local time). The return flight departs Kunming at 18:15, arriving Chiang Mai at 18:50.

cool. I am glad I asked.... I had just been using their website and entering my travel dates and didn't know I had that choice.. sweet!!! thanks

[Ajarn]

Why should I care about the business success of Joe Blow or if airlines are coming here. I could care less, but I hope to see Chiang Mai go back to what it was like in 1986, when I first showed up. It was a nicer town then.

same way i would like to see las vegas go back to what it was in 1986?? move on buddy..

No not the same way as Las Vegas. Chiang Mai is not similar. Move on buddy...

[Rinrada]

Just drove down from Mae on to Carr4 via San K P and Bo Sang and seems to be a big improvement in only the last 2 years.

New Housing estates being built,offices /shop units/factorys which were lying forelon and derelect are now looking good a plus the sun is shining after last nights Big Downpour...thought the house was gonna slide away....but no ..all..looking OK

Needs a few more tourists but......MPR..

[Bill97]

I hope to see Chiang Mai go back to what it was like in 1986, when I first showed up.

Dream on.

[sparrow]

There should be recognition that the "budget" to mid level tourists do alot more good for the local econnomy than the 5star luxurary set for small bussiness both thai and falang owned, ie bars, massage parlors, travel agents etc. encorage them by removing`this 2 am rubbish and generally chilling out, like reduce the overstay charge and see people wanting to stay longer in the country as a good thing, maybe a 2or3 month on arrival. Also help the small and local traders rather than let resorts an minted farng come in and destroy the very thing people came for in the first place, like in Pai, Kho Phang Nang and numerous other places.

[Ajarn]

I hope to see Chiang Mai go back to what it was like in 1986, when I first showed up.

Dream on.

Of course I realize it's all a dream.

[wolfmanjack]

We do not know if those tourist figures from TAT and Immigration apply to Chiang Mai, but note that there are twice as many Asian tourists as Caucasian tourists. Fiscalist, I doubt they come to Chiang Mai to eat Western food. It might explain the large number of Japanese and Korean restaurants, but where are the Chinese restaurants? OTOH, the Asian tourists may come here to eat Thai food, visit Buddhist temples, ride elephants, be warm in the winter, etc.

Many Malaysians cross the border for sex and booze.

Japanese come to play golf. ( some that i have talked to came every weekend to play golf in the cold season)

Edited May 27, 2008 by wolfmanjack

[fiscalist]

I am here only 3 years now. In what way did it change? And can that be the reason for less tourists?

[tipsy]

I can understand the point of view of those working here trying to make a living, but for those that have retired isn't a less busy, less touristy place what we chose Chiang Mai for?

[Ajarn]

. . . . . I hope to see Chiang Mai go back to what it was like in 1986, when I first showed up. It was a nicer town then.

As others have commented already, it will certainly not go back to what it was in 1986. On the bright side, however, it is no doubt much nicer now than it will be in another twenty years. So, time to enjoy!

I agree with that. Now is for sure better than in 20 years.

[Tywais]

In all fairness to the OP I have re-opened the topic after a major cleanup operation. This is a formal warning that anymore in-fighting will be dealt with as appropriate. Please keep on topic and civil. Thanks.