Expats Leaving Pattaya?

[BerndK]

Hello,

The Pattaya Mail obviously claimed that the SongKran Festival had an 8% increase in tourism this year over the previous year.

An Expat who's been living in Pattaya for 30 years said the following

Quote

" Have the prophets of doom finally been vindicated? Are we ready to believe that the last Songkran holiday had an 8% increase in tourist numbers over the previous year? It’s a little like believing that there will not be a water shortage.

In 30 years of visiting Pattaya I have never seen it so empty and yes, the crime rate is rising, the local economy is plummeting and the expats are leaving. Thank God, I never bought either a house or a business here! And no one can say they were not given due warning".

I am curious as to what others think about this.

Thanks guys

Bernd

[Kadafi]

Not been in Pattaya 30 years but have been there now for the best part of 3 years, can't really say to much about songkran in Pattaya over the years. This year i stayed in the whole time and only went out after dark. Previous few years ive either been in Bangkok or taken a trip away to Cambodia.

Never purchased a home in Pattaya and dont think i ever will, regards to business who knows.

Not too sure about if many of the ex-pats are leaving or not, i dont really take much notice..im alot younger than most of them guys as im still in my 20's...

Edited May 29, 2008 by Kadafi

[Prakanong]

I know a couple who have recently left but i bet there has been 3 new hopefuls to take their place who might last 2-3 years while their cash lasts

[LennyW]

From my experience there seem to be a lot of expats moving out of Pattaya city to the country areas, not exactly leaving alltogether. Most of whom are saying the traffic situation inside the city is unbearable.

As far as the town being busy or not - people seem to forget that over the past 5 years or so there has been a dramatic increace in the ammount of hotels, bars, go-go bars, restaruants etc, so the customers/tourists are a lot more spread out around town, not necessarily less.

[lilBob]

Hello,

The Pattaya Mail obviously claimed that the SongKran Festival had an 8% increase in tourism this year over the previous year.

An Expat who's been living in Pattaya for 30 years said the following

Quote

" Have the prophets of doom finally been vindicated? Are we ready to believe that the last Songkran holiday had an 8% increase in tourist numbers over the previous year? It's a little like believing that there will not be a water shortage.

In 30 years of visiting Pattaya I have never seen it so empty and yes, the crime rate is rising, the local economy is plummeting and the expats are leaving. Thank God, I never bought either a house or a business here! And no one can say they were not given due warning".

I am curious as to what others think about this.

Thanks guys

Bernd

A number of my expat friends actually time any trips they have to make o/seas and some actually invent reasons to go at the time of Songkran in order to avoid it as it wears a bit thin after the first few times,tourists new to LOS find it fun but many do not.

I travel to Pattaya twice sometimes 3 times a year and try to avoid Songkran at least when I can work schedules permitting, this year I left the day before Songkran commenced.

Of my expat friends I haven't heard of one leaving or planning to leave permanently.

I can't comment on tourist numbers as I have very little info to contribute except one bar owner commented to me last year that if he hadn't been in Pattaya 16 years he would be worried about what appeared to be an extended low season and he was seeing less new faces than before but still gets his regular visitors like me .

As for crime I've seen very little and experienced none accept having my pocket picked 2 years ago and I've seen no violence ever. However I think some vigilance is necessary(ie I left a bar before the fight started)

I will continue to holiday in Pattaya and intend to retire there next year, I like the cheapness of everything. although prices are rising but they are rising thoughout the world . I also like the availability of medical treatment as I am not getting any younger and may require it in the future.

It will be Pattaya for me in the forseeable future until another Nirvana (my opinion) comes along.

Pattaya like all places is evolving wether for good or bad remains to be seen.

I have been visiting Pattaya for the last 29 years and have been there over 30 times and I am increasing the frequency of my trips in recent years.

lilBob

[scooterboy]

Sho' nuff!

Seems that quite a few people are leaving the bars, gals, constant tap water and clean beaches behind.

Have (or HAD) quite a few friends in the last year or two that just got too fed up with Patters.

They've disappeared to other areas one by one - we'll be doing the same thing in the forseeable future, too.

Don't really have any complaints about the town itself - there are good things and things to avoid - same as any other town, though perhaps the constant mismanagement of the roads, water and general infrastructure only adds to our decision.

[MisterFingers]

Hello,

The Pattaya Mail obviously claimed that the SongKran Festival had an 8% increase in tourism this year over the previous year.

An Expat who's been living in Pattaya for 30 years said the following

Quote

" Have the prophets of doom finally been vindicated? Are we ready to believe that the last Songkran holiday had an 8% increase in tourist numbers over the previous year? It’s a little like believing that there will not be a water shortage.

In 30 years of visiting Pattaya I have never seen it so empty and yes, the crime rate is rising, the local economy is plummeting and the expats are leaving. Thank God, I never bought either a house or a business here! And no one can say they were not given due warning".

I am curious as to what others think about this.

Thanks guys

Bernd

First of all, the 8% increase was probably due to Thais driving from Bangkok to enjoy the water festival. As the Thai economy slowly but steadily grows, there are more Thais with disposable income to travel about their own country.

The "emptiness" as perceived by this guy was probably at farang hangouts and the like, due from expats and foreign tourists not venturing out as much for fear of getting soaked.

[Gary A]

I agree with Prakanong. For every low life bum that leaves, two or three more arrive.

[farangtingtong]

There are 2 groups of foreigners: 1. the expats/longstayers and 2. the tourists.

Regarding the first: more and more expats come to Pattaya, but settle down around Pattaya in one of the many estates/villages. They live in a wide area and not in the "heat of the centre".

Regarding the second: at the moment it's low season. Just a few tourists and the expats/longstayers don't usually go out that much.

Songkran is a festival that can be hated or loved. More and more people don't like it.

For me: living in South East Pattaya and working past Chonburi City, I'm confronted with the amazing traffic situation on a daily basis, this and the soaring fuel prices urge me to move closer to my work.

[torrenova]

Well I know more and more who are leaving. Sure some come and stay but I've seen more in the last two years who come, stay a few months and then just leave whereas before I think they would have stayed.

These would largely be people who would have some small businesses but see that things like rents are out of control, costs are escalating all the time, staff are a nightmare to find and forever wanting more and more money and for those trying to get into the bar game, I think the penny has dropped that it is not the easy business it once was.

[Kerryd]

If they are leaving, could you please tell them to hurry up ? I'd like to see the property values plummet sooner than later (unfortunately, I'm sure the void created by "expats" leaving will be filled rather quickly by the new breeds of tourists already flowing in to Pattaya).

Well, my rent is paid for the next year and a half, so I guess I'm not going anywhere soon !

[Beardog]

Kerry,

Don't hold your breath on property values going down . Almost 5 years & even with expats moving to other oversea destinations, the price is going up up & up. Maybe condos will come down. But with land being snapped up & held for sale at a later date for a much higher rate, I don't foresee land prices coming down. Unless a 97 crash or a major govn. overthrow. Bang Sare only 20 minutes from Pattaya has tripled to quad rippled in price within the last 5 years.

Hard to believe. Market is slow & the price ask goes up every year.

At least your Harley won't depreciate in Thailand!

[hanibal7]

GaryA

where did he say low life bum.

i know a couple who have left and 3 hopefuls will return and spend their money.is that been a bum or have you read a different post.

[BerndK]

Great thread!

Could have been mine.

Yeah I was wondering about Expats leaving Pattaya.

I know a couple of guys who leave Pattaya but only to go back and several others who stay there long time.

Pattaya certainly must have its own challenges but the good air, the clean water and the view makes up for it.

So not sure what that guy was talking about.

As far as crime rates go...I feel safe in Pattaya and BKK even.

I haven't heard about too many kids in Thailand shooting other kids in school either.

Most crimes can probably be prevented by being aware. Good thing that in the States we have protectors. Who is going to protect us from the protectors though?

By reading through the newer posts and some of the older ones, it appears that most problems have to do with which restaurant has the best food or the worst food. Prices go up and down everywhere...more up than down. Polulation increases everywhere and it will keep climbing.

This year I will move to Pattaya for a six months test run and the thaivisa forum is a great place for me to learn about what others living there have to say.

If you see another post asking a silly question...it's probably me.

Cheers

Bernd

[MaiThaiMai]

I agree with Prakanong. For every low life bum that leaves, two or three more arrive.

Funniest thing is you can't do a goddamn thing about it - See you next week...

[PhilHarries]

Last time I was there, beginning of May, I was amazed how busy the town was considering it is low season but it may have been the tail end of the Songkran blip. With the increase of housing developments east of the Sukhumvit (aka The Dark Side) more expats are living outside the city proper. That coupled with out of town shopping and the advent of bars and restaurants in that area means there is less reason for them to go into town.

[NanLaew]

Kerry,

Don't hold your breath on property values going down . Almost 5 years & even with expats moving to other oversea destinations, the price is going up up & up. Maybe condos will come down. But with land being snapped up & held for sale at a later date for a much higher rate, I don't foresee land prices coming down. Unless a 97 crash or a major govn. overthrow. Bang Sare only 20 minutes from Pattaya has tripled to quad rippled in price within the last 5 years.

Hard to believe. Market is slow & the price ask goes up every year.

At least your Harley won't depreciate in Thailand!

Less than a year ago, the US and UK real estate industry 'did not foresee any contraction in the property market', a mantra that was echoed by their governments and most others.

Indonesia (that didn't handle the '97 crash as well as Thailand and caught the bullet that Thailand fired) has double-digit inflation, has just increased petrol prices and pulled out of OPEC. The US is showing the exact same signs that toppled Japan from the top of the investors confidence tree 10 years before that. China's inflation rate may be hard to peg but food prices have increased 22% in the past 12 months.

Now, you try and tell me that Thailand has some magic potion to prevent the local property market going down the toilet?

And they say lightning doesn't strike twice.

[thaiman]

Pat seems pretty busy for May, but like others said, there are more venues now and it is more spread out. It does seem like there are less expats in pat, but there are certainly more tourists dumping more money then before.

The greedy thais are flocking in to grab the easy handouts. Feels more like phuket now!

[basjke]

Take a look at the topics from the pattaya news forum,next look at the bottom of the forum pages as to how many readers are online.You will know if expats are leaving and if there are reasons for.

[Kerryd]

Take a look at the topics from the pattaya news forum,next look at the bottom of the forum pages as to how many readers are online.You will know if expats are leaving and if there are reasons for.

16 viewers (6 guests and 10 members, including george (he's not embarrassed to be seen in the Pattaya forum !)

[basjke]

Take a look at the topics from the pattaya news forum,next look at the bottom of the forum pages as to how many readers are online.You will know if expats are leaving and if there are reasons for.

16 viewers (6 guests and 10 members, including george (he's not embarrassed to be seen in the Pattaya forum !)

Good one Kerry but what I meant was that 6 months ago that would read something in the range of 95 viewers ( 15 guests and 80 members)

[Ulysses G.]

6 monrths ago was at the height of high season. Of course there were more posters!

[wcr]

I'm an expat been here 5years. Just sold my business and returning home next month. Fed up with the corruption, bad staff, idiot low class tourists that seem to be coming here more and more. Always being classed as lower than the Thai's. Thailand for the Thai's mentality, standing for the K when I want to watch a film. Living in a third world country who thinks its a first world country.

Yes I am pissed off as you can tell and getting out while I remain sane!!

[NanLaew]

I'm an expat been here 5years. Just sold my business and returning home next month. Fed up with the corruption, bad staff, idiot low class tourists that seem to be coming here more and more. Always being classed as lower than the Thai's. Thailand for the Thai's mentality, standing for the K when I want to watch a film. Living in a third world country who thinks its a first world country.

Yes I am pissed off as you can tell and getting out while I remain sane!!

Sorry that it all went pear-shaped for you, I really am. What sort of business did you try? You sound bitter and twisted but hope that once you get away, you can recall the good times you did have here and not dwell on the shortcomings of the LOS that you had no control over.

I always thought that trying to run a business here would be a 'make-or-break' sort of call for me so when I got bored after 10 years of being a 'resident tourist' (1980-1990), I bailed and set up camp in the US and then Brasil. I have latterly returned to Thailand and making a home in the northeast boonies while retaining a holiday home in Pattaya. I think I may try some sort of business up there, to relieve the boredom but I think one needs big balls and deep pockets to try and make any legitimate business a success in Pattaya.

[Gary A]

I'm an expat been here 5years. Just sold my business and returning home next month. Fed up with the corruption, bad staff, idiot low class tourists that seem to be coming here more and more. Always being classed as lower than the Thai's. Thailand for the Thai's mentality, standing for the K when I want to watch a film. Living in a third world country who thinks its a first world country.

Yes I am pissed off as you can tell and getting out while I remain sane!!

I went through a similar thing some years back. The main difference was that I had nothing left to sell. (Total loss). I was VERY happy to be getting out of Thailand never to return. (I thought).

About two weeks after I got settled in back home, I had to ask myself what I was doing there. I spent the next two years trying to figure out how to get back to Thailand.

Good luck.

[wcr]

I'm an expat been here 5years. Just sold my business and returning home next month. Fed up with the corruption, bad staff, idiot low class tourists that seem to be coming here more and more. Always being classed as lower than the Thai's. Thailand for the Thai's mentality, standing for the K when I want to watch a film. Living in a third world country who thinks its a first world country.

Yes I am pissed off as you can tell and getting out while I remain sane!!

Sorry that it all went pear-shaped for you, I really am. What sort of business did you try? You sound bitter and twisted but hope that once you get away, you can recall the good times you did have here and not dwell on the shortcomings of the LOS that you had no control over.

I always thought that trying to run a business here would be a 'make-or-break' sort of call for me so when I got bored after 10 years of being a 'resident tourist' (1980-1990), I bailed and set up camp in the US and then Brasil. I have latterly returned to Thailand and making a home in the northeast boonies while retaining a holiday home in Pattaya. I think I may try some sort of business up there, to relieve the boredom but I think one needs big balls and deep pockets to try and make any legitimate business a success in Pattaya.

I owned a magazine and graphic design business here. I have actually done pretty well considering most leave here after losing thier shirts. I will be going home with over double the money I invested here, and that excludes all my living costs whilst here as I lived off the income pretty well here. Also paid all my company and personal taxes.

Just fed up with all the other crap!!!

[tropo]

First of all, the 8% increase was probably due to Thais driving from Bangkok to enjoy the water festival. As the Thai economy slowly but steadily grows, there are more Thais with disposable income to travel about their own country.

Perhaps that will change soon with Thais spending more of their "disposable income" to fill up their gas tanks. It was over 40 per litre yesterday.

[basjke]

I'm an expat been here 5years. Just sold my business and returning home next month. Fed up with the corruption, bad staff, idiot low class tourists that seem to be coming here more and more. Always being classed as lower than the Thai's. Thailand for the Thai's mentality, standing for the K when I want to watch a film. Living in a third world country who thinks its a first world country.

Yes I am pissed off as you can tell and getting out while I remain sane!!

Can't agree more with you.I am here for 14 years and one should think it had improved over the years.Nothing is more against the truth as that.It get's worse by the day especially the last few years.The crime has risen to unacceptable highs,quality of life has gone way down,xenephobia is clearly visible and the people get more greedy by the day.They realy do one step forwards and then 3 steps back.But,as Gary A wrote,I am sure I can't get used in the western world again.I am looking for years already to leave but there isn't a clear alternative.Cambodia and laos too primitive.Malaysia is better but I prefer not to live between the muslims.If someone knows a country with a similar climate,reasonable quality of life and affordable feel free to inform me.

As for you saying that it is here living in a third world country that thinks it's a first world country I will always remember the words a US navy told me in my early days here.

You can't blame people for being stupid because they didn't have education.People who are stupid but who think they are the smartest are dangerous people.

[Jingthing]

I still think it is a fine place for retirees. You just have to adapt/adopt a certain attitude of detachment about the xenophobia. However, I can really sympathize with expats who get more involved and run businesses here.

[Kerryd]

If someone knows a country with a similar climate,reasonable quality of life and affordable feel free to inform me.

And that is one of the classic questions that has been raised here time and time again.

(note: this isn't a poke at basjke)

Just about every time there is a Pattaya-bashing thread, someone (often me) will offer that up to the bashers. "If it's so bad here, then tell me where there is someplace better."

It's a question that never seems to get an answer.

I too would like to know if there is a place that has the weather, great exchange rates/prices, access to medical care, educational institutes, somewhat politically stable, ease of travel, great people, great food, etc etc.

Cambodia ? Laos ? Burma ? Malaysia ? Bhutan ? Vietnam ? Indonesia ? the Philippines ?

Each may have some good features, and some bad. I'm sure the larger cities (similar to Pattaya) in the Philippines have as many problems as Pattaya does. Vietnam ? Still communist, and while getting more tourist-friendly, I think it will be a long time before you will be able to live there as comfortably as you can in Pattaya. Malaysia/Indonesia ? Quite frankly, after spending 5 years working and travelling through Islamic countries, I would never willingly live in one.

Pattaya (and Thailand) have their problems sure enough. But like that old saying goes (sort of): Change the things you can, and live with the things you can't change.

So I guess I'll keep on waiting for someone to tell me where that magical place is, that has great weather year round, great food, great people, great prices, pretty good infrastructure/hospitals/education/political systems, virtually no crime, no discrimination, no corruption, that loves expats and goes out of it's way to make them feel welcome, lets them buy land/houses, stay forever with no visa hassles, is overly forgiving to those that do break the law, and pretty much does anything else it can to please the all mighty farang expat.

Yep, sounds like a great place. Now where is that reality altering/dimension hopping device I invented ? Ah right, there it is, in my dreams like a lot of other fantasies !