At Least 78 Die After Thailand Riot

udon · October 28, 2004

Hi john,

I agree.

Can you read Thai?

Thanks,

udon

katyusha · October 28, 2004

Well.....I will continue to counter them here in the forum with my words.
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You counter NOTHING JimJim, because no-one cares what you think.

Your best move would be to leave Thailand and go live in a nice happy country where you can freely espouse your seditious and treasonous support for raghead terrorist "underdogs" against awful "anti-Muslim" people like me without fear of being beaten or killed by police or soldiers. Good luck finding one where you don't have to grow a beard and dress Sunnah and make Salaah 5 times a day if you don't want to risk being beaten or killed by police or soldiers, you stupid little man.

sriracha john · October 28, 2004

Thanks Guran, that sums it up so simply.
Islamic extremists throughout the world don't want anything short of the total destruction of anyone who doesn't share their fanatical beliefs.

Give them an inch, and they will take a mile! We should all back the Thai people in their attempt to stop this evil movement.

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Guran's post actually summed up why the Gestapo tactics of T will only serve to aggrevate the situation. It brings these extinct groups out of dormancy, thus making the entire nation unsafe.

The evil movement is the government.

SoCal · October 28, 2004

Katy, given his sexual orientation, I severely doubt a muslim nation would be much of a future for him.

sriracha john · October 28, 2004

Besides the fact that the government might have had a right to detain certain people in this case - I can't judge that - it is a fact that after they detain someone they are 100% responsible for their well being after that. No one is guilty unless convicted, so far they were just suspects. Or does this work different in Thailand?
In this case the authorities have grossly neglected their duty to protect their detaineees from any harm and so this is in my opinion a clear case of (may be unwillingly) manslaughter, punishable by law in most countries, also in Thailand I guess.

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A Very valid point, Sangsom. The authorities ARE responsible and that responsibility should be taken all the way to the top of the government. When the authorities shirk this obvious responsibility, it angers even the moderates and passives in the community and legitimizes the extremists' words.

katyusha · October 28, 2004

This backtracking and U-turning occurs when the international press are involved and speaks volumes about it's ability to influence Thailand. This happens time and time again whether it's bird flu or foreigners being murdered in Kanchanaburi. Seems like when news items are exclusively covered by Thai media, T is aggressive and intolerant... but bring in BBC, Reuters, et al.... and T is humble and apologetic. It really reveals how much T is desirous of playing on the world stage. In my opinion, the best of the Thai media is The Nation Group (Newspaper AND television).

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Surely you're not so naive that you think foreign news teams would have been allowed to leave the area alive if Thaksin was serious about keeping the lid on ?

sriracha john · October 28, 2004

The most expedient solution is to round up PULO members and execute them all for sedition.

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Yes, that will be just as successful as ending drug use by summarily murdering drug people (or were they drug dealers?) at will..... or ending bird flu by slaughtering millions of chickens. Simple-minded people come up with simple solutions, be they T or ???.

Sangsom · October 28, 2004

A Very valid point, Sangsom. The authorities ARE responsible and that responsibility should be taken all the way to the top of the government. When the authorities shirk this obvious responsibility, it angers even the moderates and passives in the community and legitimizes the extremists' words.

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This is what I fear that this action of the government will proof to be 100% counter productive and that it definately will stimulate extremists from all over the world to come and offer "help" to their Thai brothers in need!

Lessons could have been learned from the events in Iraq!

sriracha john · October 28, 2004

78 less terrorists in the world
Why complain?

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Because by doing so in this manner, it only creates hundreds more that might not have otherwise become terrorists. The population of the Deep South is over 3 million. Do we really want that many terrorists?

sriracha john · October 28, 2004

I'm utterly disgusted. And that insulting crap that they died because they were weak from fasting for Ramadan. ###### off.
Disgusted.

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Absolutely. Makes someone wonder how they've managed to survive at all during the many, many centuries that Ramadan has been observed.

katyusha · October 28, 2004

[simple-minded people come up with simple solutions, be they T or ???.

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"We pledge before Allah that from now on, the infidel will suffer sleepless nights, the property they have robbed from us will be totally destroyed and their lives will face consequences for the sins they have committed. Their blood will be shed on the soil and flow into water."

People who are too weak to deal with real and present danger before it becomes too real and too present are usually killed while they're trying to come up with peaceful solutions.

sriracha john · October 28, 2004

Hi john,
I agree.

Can you read Thai?

Thanks,

udon

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Hello,

I regret to say that, similiar to 7 million Thai people, I can't read Thai.

I do, however, have access to someone who is a Thai reader, so thanking you in advance for whatever material you will send to me for reading.... (assuming that's the reason for your inquiry or even that I am the "John" that you were greeting).

sriracha john · October 28, 2004

This backtracking and U-turning occurs when the international press are involved and speaks volumes about it's ability to influence Thailand. This happens time and time again whether it's bird flu or foreigners being murdered in Kanchanaburi. Seems like when news items are exclusively covered by Thai media, T is aggressive and intolerant... but bring in BBC, Reuters, et al.... and T is humble and apologetic. It really reveals how much T is desirous of playing on the world stage. In my opinion, the best of the Thai media is The Nation Group (Newspaper AND television).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Surely you're not so naive that you think foreign news teams would have been allowed to leave the area alive if Thaksin was serious about keeping the lid on ?

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An incident of that nature (the murder of an international news team) would result in the complete collapse of this government very quickly. The backlash would have T out of office within 30 days. *** to borrow one of his famous deadlines, except in this case, it REALLY would happen ***

Mr Red · October 28, 2004

While I have a problem with the "religion of peace" that is most certainly not, I have a bigger problem with putting people that have been detained into a situation that is life-threatening. The world should call a foul on that behavior.

If Thailand can come up with a good reason for 78 post-detention deaths on their watch, I'm with them. Otherwise, the responsible folks should be held accountable.

I'm sure at least one of those detained might be classified as a "terrorist", I would be willing to bet they are smarter than to allow themselves to expire in this manner, and they are not among the dead. This is simply uneducated masses mistreated by heavy-handed authorities.

mouse · October 28, 2004

"Their blood will be shed on the soil and flow into water. Our weapon is fire and oil, fire and oil, fire and oil."

Picture this ficticious scenario; Pattaya Bar areas, Bangkok's naughty nightlife businesses and the nighlife venues of Phuket are attacked and burned to the ground. Investigation reveals that the radical Muslims committed these acts and they are ultimately hunted down and killed. The Thai Govervenment would have win in their relentless drive to destroy the night-time industries of Thailand and gotten rid of a nagging Muslim problem. Not a farfetched scenario. Watch the news!

I hope that I am wrong.

Mr Red · October 28, 2004

This backtracking and U-turning occurs when the international press are involved and speaks volumes about it's ability to influence Thailand. This happens time and time again whether it's bird flu or foreigners being murdered in Kanchanaburi. Seems like when news items are exclusively covered by Thai media, T is aggressive and intolerant... but bring in BBC, Reuters, et al.... and T is humble and apologetic. It really reveals how much T is desirous of playing on the world stage. In my opinion, the best of the Thai media is The Nation Group (Newspaper AND television).

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Seems to me we should be thankful at least the world media is applying some pressure.

katyusha · October 28, 2004

78 less terrorists in the world
Why complain?

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Because by doing so in this manner, it only creates hundreds more that might not have otherwise become terrorists. The population of the Deep South is over 3 million. Do we really want that many terrorists?

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I'm not dancing in the street over the way the arrestees died or the clubbings and kickings that preceded some of those deaths, but hey, shit happens. Unless you've been confronted by an angry mob which included professional agitators reported by intelligence as being armed with assault rifles and pistols, how do you know what your own reaction would be ?

Muslim agitators in Afghanistan and Iraq often fired AK-47s into the air to turn demonstrators into an unruly mob, thereby provoking the desired response from police and soldiers for the ever present Al Jazeera TV cameras. TV news coverage of the Pattani riot carries the sound of single shots plus several sustained bursts of of automatic fire, but media reports say only 6 rioters suffered gunshot wounds. Where did the hundreds of other bullets go ?

I'm not a government sponsored thug or a uniformed homicidal maniac. I'm a soldier. I've faced situations in which we've been massively outnumbered by armed Muslim fanatics, so I have some idea what was going through the minds of those policemen and soldiers. With my view of the event limited to what I've seen on TV, I think they acted with remarkable restraint. I would have expected the dath and injury toll to be much higher under the circumstances.

stroll · October 28, 2004

I think they acted with remarkable restraint. I would have expected the dath and injury toll to be much higher under the circumstances.

I suggest they were not "massively outnumbered by armed Muslim fanatics", but facing an angry crowd of people, which leads me to say they were not restrained enough. Don't police undergo training on how to operate without being overwhelmed by feelings of fear or rage?

I also like to point out how this discussion has moved to labelling unarmed demonstrators as terrorists, thus desguising one's own hatered and satisfaction derived from their deaths and the way they died.

katyusha · October 28, 2004

Surely you're not so naive that you think foreign news teams would have been allowed to leave the area alive if Thaksin was serious about keeping the lid on ?

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An incident of that nature (the murder of an international news team) would result in the complete collapse of this government very quickly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

55555555555555555

You live in a dream world.

The news team would have been killed with the same weapons used by Muslim terrorists, not with Thai military or police issue weapons.

Their vehicle would have been taken out with an RPG-7, and any survivors would have been finished off with AK-47s.

PULO would have claimed responsibility on the Al Jazeera website. "The blood of the infidel reporters was shed on the holy soil of Pattani in the name of Allah."

katyusha · October 28, 2004

I think they acted with remarkable restraint. I would have expected the dath and injury toll to be much higher under the circumstances.

I suggest they were not "massively outnumbered by armed Muslim fanatics", but facing an angry crowd of people, which leads me to say they were not restrained enough. Don't police undergo training on how to operate without being overwhelmed by feelings of fear or rage?

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Training is one thing. Combat is another. I'm a highly trained professional soldier. I've been in Timor, Afghanistan (twice), and Iraq, and patrolled the Thai/Burma border. Very few Thai soldiers have seen combat.

What qualifies you to pass judgement on the feelings of inexperienced soldiers who find themselves outnumbered 10:1 by a shouting unruly mob of ragheads waving clubs and machetes and firing shots in the air ?

I also like to point out how this discussion has moved to labelling unarmed demonstrators as terrorists, thus desguising one's own hatered and satisfaction derived from their deaths and the way they died.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As more information comes to light it becomes clear that a number of those "unarmed demonstrators" were carrying AK-47s and pistols, and a couple of the cheeky buggers even brought M-16s stolen from the Thai military last month to the party, so perhaps "terrorists" isn't so far off the mark.

I derive no satisfaction from their deaths and the way they died, but I can understand how and why it happened. You may not like me or what I do for a living sTROLL, but while you're tucked up safe and warm in your bed, remember that people like me are the reason people like you CAN'T understand how and why it happened.

Artisi · October 28, 2004

Having commented early to this thread and now having read the majority of replies, I find some of the comments very disturbing and way off what I feel we should be discussing.

The facts are,

1.There was the problem of a potential riot, no discussion required- this is a fact.

2. Many arrests were made – this is a fact, how they were made and how these people were handled following their arrest is a contentious point and needs to be addressed.

3. A large number of contained and restrained “prisoners” died following their arrest – this is a fact, and what we should be addressing.

The question is not about causes of the problem in the south, it is not about the effects of the problem and how it should be addressed - it is simply:-

WHY DID THEY DIE?

HOW DID THEY DIE?

WHO WILL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY?

HERE IS ANOTHER FACT - these people were murdered, yes murdered, not killed in a riot, not killed resisting arrest, not killed fire bombing a building, not killed because they were raging out of control - contained and restrained prisoners do not constitute a threat and should have been treated with some human respect and dignity.

Shame on Thailand.

Shame on the authorities who look the other way.

Shame on all Thai’s of what ever following who do not protest against the mistreatment of these human beings.

Shame on all members of this forum who use this medium to vent their own pathetic small minded views and belittle what is a grave injustice in a supposedly civilized society.

There is no excuse for this tragedy, none – never ever.

englishoak · October 28, 2004

Artisti agreed 100%

That is all

lorax · October 28, 2004

Islam again, what a surprize

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You are so correct that it's no surprise that Islam is behind the uprisings in the South of Thailand!

I live in america & the "normal" Thai I've met are a welcome departure from what I experience in my own country. My travels to Thailand have always left me with the feeling that the Thai (Buddhists) are a very peaceful people. Then, when I learned of the violence & killing in the South of Thailand, I was very surprised because violence & killing are not typical behaviors for Thai.

After learning that it's the Thai "Muslims" who are in the South of Thailand, and that they are responsible for the violence & killing, I was not surprised at all. In my mind, those "Thai" are not Thai at all. They are just part of the Muslim murdering machine. It's a shame that less than 100 Islamics were defused in the riots.

Let the world wine about human rights. The Thai government is doing exactly the right thing... just not enough of it to rid Thailand of the cancer residing in the South. If left unchecked, that Islamic tumor will grow.

IamMaiC · October 28, 2004

Islam again, what a surprize

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You are so correct that it's no surprise that Islam is behind the uprisings in the South of Thailand!

I live in america & the "normal" Thai I've met are a welcome departure from what I experience in my own country. My travels to Thailand have always left me with the feeling that the Thai (Buddhists) are a very peaceful people. Then, when I learned of the violence & killing in the South of Thailand, I was very surprised because violence & killing are not typical behaviors for Thai.

After learning that it's the Thai "Muslims" who are in the South of Thailand, and that they are responsible for the violence & killing, I was not surprised at all. In my mind, those "Thai" are not Thai at all. They are just part of the Muslim murdering machine. It's a shame that less than 100 Islamics were defused in the riots.

Let the world wine about human rights. The Thai government is doing exactly the right thing... just not enough of it to rid Thailand of the cancer residing in the South. If left unchecked, that Islamic tumor will grow.

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The Cancer is not just in Thailand, It's in your backyard also. People don't want to see this and blame everything on the US goverment!!! or whatever government they live under. I say the ###### with those type of people This Cancer has been on this earth for far too long, The muslims only know death and WANT Death I say we help them with setting up a meeting with their "Allah"

stroll · October 28, 2004

I'm a highly trained professional soldier. I've been in Timor, Afghanistan (twice), and Iraq, and patrolled the Thai/Burma border.

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I doubt it. Or your tour of duty against "unruly mob of ragheads waving clubs and machetes" has impaired your judgement.

As more information comes to light it becomes clear that a number of those "unarmed demonstrators" were carrying AK-47s and pistols, and a couple of the cheeky buggers even brought M-16s stolen from the Thai military last month to the party, so perhaps "terrorists" isn't so far off the mark.

Can you provide a link to this 'information', or is it based on your 'professional judgement' to regard rioting youth as 'terrorists', deserving to die?

WHY DID THEY DIE?
HOW DID THEY DIE?

WHO WILL TAKE RESPONSIBILITY?

HERE IS ANOTHER FACT - these people were murdered, yes murdered, not killed in a riot, not killed resisting arrest, not killed fire bombing a building, not killed because they were raging out of control - contained and restrained prisoners do not constitute a threat and should have been treated with some human respect and dignity.

There is no excuse for this tragedy, none – never ever.

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Died as the result of mistreatment and gross negligence, so gross that one might include torture with resulting deaths to the accusation.

davethailand · October 28, 2004

I've just watched the video of the incedent,

i don't back these people at all but the way they died was tragic and as for Thaksins explanation, well?? disgusting

stroll · October 28, 2004

deleted

Edited October 28, 2004 by stroll

peterpai · October 28, 2004

In a democracy, the first and most important duty of police army etc. is to protect the innocent and not to punish the "maybe guilty".

marquess · October 28, 2004

I'm not a government sponsored thug or a uniformed homicidal maniac. I'm a soldier. I've faced situations in which we've been massively outnumbered by armed Muslim fanatics, so I have some idea what was going through the minds of those policemen and soldiers. With my view of the event limited to what I've seen on TV, I think they acted with remarkable restraint. I would have expected the dath and injury toll to be much higher under the circumstances.

A soldier! Ultimately trained to kill, and follow orders whether they are right or wrong!

ThaiGeared_HighThaied · October 28, 2004

A soldier! Ultimately trained to kill, and follow orders whether they are right or wrong!

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I say thai soldiers should be trained first to kill all farang bitchs.

What do you say? isn't this gona be very intersting ending story

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