Help Filing U.s. Taxes

[skettios]

I've been abroad for four years, and have never paid taxes. I have been on teachers wages and just assumed that I never made enough to have to file.

I lived for the last three years in Taiwan and paid and filed taxes there. I have stubs to show that I paid taxes, but neither shows the amount I paid. I have a general estimate based on my salary but no exact figures and no paperwork.

I was reading the instructions for claiming the earned foreign income exclusion with the F2555-EZ form, and I didn't see any place where it tells you to attach a form or anything like that. Is that something that needs to be attached to a 1040, or will they let me get away with just estimating the amount of salary I earned?

Here are the instructions.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i2555ez.pdf

What can I do if I can't get a wage statement from my previous employer?

Has anyone worked through this situation before?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dan

[Mattchu9999]

Dan I wouldn't worry one iota about filing.

First of all does your employer in Thailand send w-2 weage earning statements reporting your income to the IRS every year?

(Im guessing no.)

Did you sign under penalty of pergury any type of witholding agreement making your Thai employer an effective agent of the US government to report your income earned?

(Im guessing no)

Further has your Thai employer been witholding US taxes from your wages any time during your employment?

(Im guessing.....no)

The way the IRS determines if you've been failing to file is when your employer reports to them your income. But if you have a JOB in the US, as an employee your taxes are allready being witheald.

The IRS is a paper tiger. I've NEVER filed my taxes not once in my enitre life and have never had any issues with the IRS.

Dont file now if you havent filed in a while. Besides you cant file without waiving your 5th ammendment rights against being a witness against yourself, and your would only be exposing yourself to potential problems by any admitance of past unreported foreign income.

I'm sure on thiese forums you will find plenty of people whom aren't afraid of the IRS as they have educated themselves of this sham govt. entity.

I'm not saying the Income tax (a capatition tax) is illegal, rather it doesn't meet the constutitional requirement of apportionment as do direct (property) and excise (sales) taxes, so it really comes down to your liability for said tax, and Title 24 of the Internal Revenue code, section 60012 more specifically which deals with personal liability really sums it up quite clearly that is is the taxpayers responsibility to determine their own liability...not even the IRS comissioner can determine a persons tax liability. And its up to you to decide if you are a "taxpayer" as that term is defined in the Internal Revenue Code.

Pay close attention to the words "Shall" and "Should", and remember within means outside the borders of the US and without means inside the borders of the US.

Good luck!!

[OriginalPoster]

I've been abroad for four years, and have never paid taxes. I have been on teachers wages and just assumed that I never made enough to have to file.

I lived for the last three years in Taiwan and paid and filed taxes there. I have stubs to show that I paid taxes, but neither shows the amount I paid. I have a general estimate based on my salary but no exact figures and no paperwork.

I was reading the instructions for claiming the earned foreign income exclusion with the F2555-EZ form, and I didn't see any place where it tells you to attach a form or anything like that. Is that something that needs to be attached to a 1040, or will they let me get away with just estimating the amount of salary I earned?

Here are the instructions.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i2555ez.pdf

What can I do if I can't get a wage statement from my previous employer?

Has anyone worked through this situation before?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dan

Generally you don't need to attach anything to the 1040 other than Form 1116 (which is a Foreign Tax Credit worksheet) and Form 2555 (which a Foriegn Earned Income workseet). A wage statement is useful to have for your records in case the IRS questioned your numbers but you don't generally need it to file. If your situation is that you are in fact way below the maximum annual Foerign Earned Income exclusion amount then your not going to likely to have a problem even if the IRS audits you as long as you have a plausible story and as long as they don't turn up evidence that you have a large amount of cash stashed elsewhere.

Also, the advice in the prior post not to file is bad advice unless you are absolutely certain that for the balance of your life you will not want to work, live, visit, or do business in the USA. From what you posted, it sounds like you probably don't owe anything in taxes to the US government and all that you've done wrong is to not file. In most such cases, the IRS will just accept your returns for the past years and not access any penalties. Even if you do owe some money to the IRS, the most that is likely to happen is that they would apply some penalty for late payment, they're not going to go after you for fraud unless there's a lot more to your story than what you've posted here. Taking the alternative approach seems needless, and we all saw how well challenging the validity of the US Income tax system worked for Wesley Snipes. I don't see where you'd have anything to gain by trying to claim that the US Income tax law is invalid and/or that it doesn't apply to you, such claims won't stand up should you make them.

Edited July 23, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[Mattchu9999]

I've been abroad for four years, and have never paid taxes. I have been on teachers wages and just assumed that I never made enough to have to file.

I lived for the last three years in Taiwan and paid and filed taxes there. I have stubs to show that I paid taxes, but neither shows the amount I paid. I have a general estimate based on my salary but no exact figures and no paperwork.

I was reading the instructions for claiming the earned foreign income exclusion with the F2555-EZ form, and I didn't see any place where it tells you to attach a form or anything like that. Is that something that needs to be attached to a 1040, or will they let me get away with just estimating the amount of salary I earned?

Here are the instructions.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i2555ez.pdf

What can I do if I can't get a wage statement from my previous employer?

Has anyone worked through this situation before?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dan

Generally you don't need to attach anything to the 1040 other than Form 1116 (which is a Foreign Tax Credit worksheet) and Form 2555 (which a Foriegn Earned Income workseet). A wage statement is useful to have for your records in case the IRS questioned your numbers but you don't generally need it to file. If your situation is that you are in fact way below the maximum annual Foerign Earned Income exclusion amount then your not going to likely to have a problem even if the IRS audits you as long as you have a plausible story and as long as they don't turn up evidence that you have a large amount of cash stashed elsewhere.

Also, the advice in the prior post not to file is bad advice unless you are absolutely certain that for the balance of your life you will not want to work, live, visit, or do business in the USA. From what you posted, it sounds like you probably don't owe anything in taxes to the US government and all that you've done wrong is to not file. In most such cases, the IRS will just accept your returns for the past years and not access any penalties. Even if you do owe some money to the IRS, the most that is likely to happen is that they would apply some penalty for late payment, they're not going to go after you for fraud unless there's a lot more to your story than what you've posted here. Taking the alternative approach seems needless, and we all saw how well challenging the validity of the US Income tax system worked for Wesley Snipes. I don't see where you'd have anything to gain by trying to claim that the US Income tax law is invalid and/or that it doesn't apply to you, such claims won't stand up should you make them.

Your point to mention Wesley Snipe's challenge of a validity of the income tax proves your lack of understanding the liability statutes and further the just of my position. Wesley was brought in for Falsification of information on a tax return.

You see when you file you income return you sign under a little box that says "Under penalty of pergury" meaning that any false statements found by the IRS anywhere is grounds for being brought before the tax court.

IT IS MORE DANGEROUS to file a return than not file. If the IRS makes a mistake in any calculations it's up to you to prove them wrong.

Nowhere did I say for the OP to challenge the validity of the tax code. I merely was providing evidence that one can certainly claim they are not a taxpayer as that term is defined in the internal revenue code. I am an American citizen with domestic based income. How about you provide some proof I am liable for the income tax and am a "taxpayer" as that term is defined in the internal revenue code?

You wont be able to but Ill be sure to pick apart your attempts.

SImply saying what I gave is bad advise without providing any salient proof is just grandstanding. Which is exactly what the IRS does every year when tax time rolls around they make a bog high profile case to scare the rest of you sheeple into submission.

[OriginalPoster]

I've been abroad for four years, and have never paid taxes. I have been on teachers wages and just assumed that I never made enough to have to file.

I lived for the last three years in Taiwan and paid and filed taxes there. I have stubs to show that I paid taxes, but neither shows the amount I paid. I have a general estimate based on my salary but no exact figures and no paperwork.

I was reading the instructions for claiming the earned foreign income exclusion with the F2555-EZ form, and I didn't see any place where it tells you to attach a form or anything like that. Is that something that needs to be attached to a 1040, or will they let me get away with just estimating the amount of salary I earned?

Here are the instructions.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i2555ez.pdf

What can I do if I can't get a wage statement from my previous employer?

Has anyone worked through this situation before?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dan

Generally you don't need to attach anything to the 1040 other than Form 1116 (which is a Foreign Tax Credit worksheet) and Form 2555 (which a Foriegn Earned Income workseet). A wage statement is useful to have for your records in case the IRS questioned your numbers but you don't generally need it to file. If your situation is that you are in fact way below the maximum annual Foerign Earned Income exclusion amount then your not going to likely to have a problem even if the IRS audits you as long as you have a plausible story and as long as they don't turn up evidence that you have a large amount of cash stashed elsewhere.

Also, the advice in the prior post not to file is bad advice unless you are absolutely certain that for the balance of your life you will not want to work, live, visit, or do business in the USA. From what you posted, it sounds like you probably don't owe anything in taxes to the US government and all that you've done wrong is to not file. In most such cases, the IRS will just accept your returns for the past years and not access any penalties. Even if you do owe some money to the IRS, the most that is likely to happen is that they would apply some penalty for late payment, they're not going to go after you for fraud unless there's a lot more to your story than what you've posted here. Taking the alternative approach seems needless, and we all saw how well challenging the validity of the US Income tax system worked for Wesley Snipes. I don't see where you'd have anything to gain by trying to claim that the US Income tax law is invalid and/or that it doesn't apply to you, such claims won't stand up should you make them.

Your point to mention Wesley Snipe's challenge of a validity of the income tax proves your lack of understanding the liability statutes and further the just of my position. Wesley was brought in for Falsification of information on a tax return.

You see when you file you income return you sign under a little box that says "Under penalty of pergury" meaning that any false statements found by the IRS anywhere is grounds for being brought before the tax court.

IT IS MORE DANGEROUS to file a return than not file. If the IRS makes a mistake in any calculations it's up to you to prove them wrong.

Nowhere did I say for the OP to challenge the validity of the tax code. I merely was providing evidence that one can certainly claim they are not a taxpayer as that term is defined in the internal revenue code. I am an American citizen with domestic based income. How about you provide some proof I am liable for the income tax and am a "taxpayer" as that term is defined in the internal revenue code?

You wont be able to but Ill be sure to pick apart your attempts.

SImply saying what I gave is bad advise without providing any salient proof is just grandstanding. Which is exactly what the IRS does every year when tax time rolls around they make a bog high profile case to scare the rest of you sheeple into submission.

Still, I don't see where there would be anything to gain by not filing given the facts stated in the original inquiry. Why should he do that, just to make a political point? I'm well aware that there are "consitutionalists" out there who reject the whole validity of the federal income tax systems, but you're incorrect that the burden of prove is on me to show that the IRS can tax it's citizens.

[Mattchu9999]

I've been abroad for four years, and have never paid taxes. I have been on teachers wages and just assumed that I never made enough to have to file.

I lived for the last three years in Taiwan and paid and filed taxes there. I have stubs to show that I paid taxes, but neither shows the amount I paid. I have a general estimate based on my salary but no exact figures and no paperwork.

I was reading the instructions for claiming the earned foreign income exclusion with the F2555-EZ form, and I didn't see any place where it tells you to attach a form or anything like that. Is that something that needs to be attached to a 1040, or will they let me get away with just estimating the amount of salary I earned?

Here are the instructions.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i2555ez.pdf

What can I do if I can't get a wage statement from my previous employer?

Has anyone worked through this situation before?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dan

Generally you don't need to attach anything to the 1040 other than Form 1116 (which is a Foreign Tax Credit worksheet) and Form 2555 (which a Foriegn Earned Income workseet). A wage statement is useful to have for your records in case the IRS questioned your numbers but you don't generally need it to file. If your situation is that you are in fact way below the maximum annual Foerign Earned Income exclusion amount then your not going to likely to have a problem even if the IRS audits you as long as you have a plausible story and as long as they don't turn up evidence that you have a large amount of cash stashed elsewhere.

Also, the advice in the prior post not to file is bad advice unless you are absolutely certain that for the balance of your life you will not want to work, live, visit, or do business in the USA. From what you posted, it sounds like you probably don't owe anything in taxes to the US government and all that you've done wrong is to not file. In most such cases, the IRS will just accept your returns for the past years and not access any penalties. Even if you do owe some money to the IRS, the most that is likely to happen is that they would apply some penalty for late payment, they're not going to go after you for fraud unless there's a lot more to your story than what you've posted here. Taking the alternative approach seems needless, and we all saw how well challenging the validity of the US Income tax system worked for Wesley Snipes. I don't see where you'd have anything to gain by trying to claim that the US Income tax law is invalid and/or that it doesn't apply to you, such claims won't stand up should you make them.

Your point to mention Wesley Snipe's challenge of a validity of the income tax proves your lack of understanding the liability statutes and further the just of my position. Wesley was brought in for Falsification of information on a tax return.

You see when you file you income return you sign under a little box that says "Under penalty of pergury" meaning that any false statements found by the IRS anywhere is grounds for being brought before the tax court.

IT IS MORE DANGEROUS to file a return than not file. If the IRS makes a mistake in any calculations it's up to you to prove them wrong.

Nowhere did I say for the OP to challenge the validity of the tax code. I merely was providing evidence that one can certainly claim they are not a taxpayer as that term is defined in the internal revenue code. I am an American citizen with domestic based income. How about you provide some proof I am liable for the income tax and am a "taxpayer" as that term is defined in the internal revenue code?

You wont be able to but Ill be sure to pick apart your attempts.

SImply saying what I gave is bad advise without providing any salient proof is just grandstanding. Which is exactly what the IRS does every year when tax time rolls around they make a bog high profile case to scare the rest of you sheeple into submission.

Still, I don't see where there would be anything to gain by not filing given the facts stated in the original inquiry. Why should he do that, just to make a political point? I'm well aware that there are "consitutionalists" out there who reject the whole validity of the federal income tax systems, but you're incorrect that the burden of prove is on me to show that the IRS can tax it's citizens.

I quite specifically stated that I was not challending the LEGLITY of the income tax.

I never indicated I was a "constutitionalist" or whatever they may be. Perhaps you mean Libertarian?

Further its nothing to do with being correct or not, nor is there any burden of any proof, I was merely laying a challenge to you to prove me wrong which you have faild to do so.

I re assert my point that filing a tax return IS RISKIER than not, as you are providing evidence that has a chance to be misconstrued by the IRS and or a mistake made that would cause the filer to have to dig themselves put of a problem is much riskier then having to answer at worst wilful failure to file suit.

[OriginalPoster]

I've been abroad for four years, and have never paid taxes. I have been on teachers wages and just assumed that I never made enough to have to file.

I lived for the last three years in Taiwan and paid and filed taxes there. I have stubs to show that I paid taxes, but neither shows the amount I paid. I have a general estimate based on my salary but no exact figures and no paperwork.

I was reading the instructions for claiming the earned foreign income exclusion with the F2555-EZ form, and I didn't see any place where it tells you to attach a form or anything like that. Is that something that needs to be attached to a 1040, or will they let me get away with just estimating the amount of salary I earned?

Here are the instructions.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i2555ez.pdf

What can I do if I can't get a wage statement from my previous employer?

Has anyone worked through this situation before?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dan

Generally you don't need to attach anything to the 1040 other than Form 1116 (which is a Foreign Tax Credit worksheet) and Form 2555 (which a Foriegn Earned Income workseet). A wage statement is useful to have for your records in case the IRS questioned your numbers but you don't generally need it to file. If your situation is that you are in fact way below the maximum annual Foerign Earned Income exclusion amount then your not going to likely to have a problem even if the IRS audits you as long as you have a plausible story and as long as they don't turn up evidence that you have a large amount of cash stashed elsewhere.

Also, the advice in the prior post not to file is bad advice unless you are absolutely certain that for the balance of your life you will not want to work, live, visit, or do business in the USA. From what you posted, it sounds like you probably don't owe anything in taxes to the US government and all that you've done wrong is to not file. In most such cases, the IRS will just accept your returns for the past years and not access any penalties. Even if you do owe some money to the IRS, the most that is likely to happen is that they would apply some penalty for late payment, they're not going to go after you for fraud unless there's a lot more to your story than what you've posted here. Taking the alternative approach seems needless, and we all saw how well challenging the validity of the US Income tax system worked for Wesley Snipes. I don't see where you'd have anything to gain by trying to claim that the US Income tax law is invalid and/or that it doesn't apply to you, such claims won't stand up should you make them.

Your point to mention Wesley Snipe's challenge of a validity of the income tax proves your lack of understanding the liability statutes and further the just of my position. Wesley was brought in for Falsification of information on a tax return.

You see when you file you income return you sign under a little box that says "Under penalty of pergury" meaning that any false statements found by the IRS anywhere is grounds for being brought before the tax court.

IT IS MORE DANGEROUS to file a return than not file. If the IRS makes a mistake in any calculations it's up to you to prove them wrong.

Nowhere did I say for the OP to challenge the validity of the tax code. I merely was providing evidence that one can certainly claim they are not a taxpayer as that term is defined in the internal revenue code. I am an American citizen with domestic based income. How about you provide some proof I am liable for the income tax and am a "taxpayer" as that term is defined in the internal revenue code?

You wont be able to but Ill be sure to pick apart your attempts.

SImply saying what I gave is bad advise without providing any salient proof is just grandstanding. Which is exactly what the IRS does every year when tax time rolls around they make a bog high profile case to scare the rest of you sheeple into submission.

Still, I don't see where there would be anything to gain by not filing given the facts stated in the original inquiry. Why should he do that, just to make a political point? I'm well aware that there are "consitutionalists" out there who reject the whole validity of the federal income tax systems, but you're incorrect that the burden of prove is on me to show that the IRS can tax it's citizens.

I quite specifically stated that I was not challending the LEGLITY of the income tax.

I never indicated I was a "constutitionalist" or whatever they may be. Perhaps you mean Libertarian?

Further its nothing to do with being correct or not, nor is there any burden of any proof, I was merely laying a challenge to you to prove me wrong which you have faild to do so.

I re assert my point that filing a tax return IS RISKIER than not, as you are providing evidence that has a chance to be misconstrued by the IRS and or a mistake made that would cause the filer to have to dig themselves put of a problem is much riskier then having to answer at worst wilful failure to file suit.

At some point he's going to have to file returns for those years unless he manages to live his whole life under the radar of the IRS. I would think that it would be better to do it now, when he can reasonably plead ignorance as being the reason not to file and when he probably doesn't owe any taxes anyway, than later in life when he might be suddenly be making real money and not having filed income taxes the previous X years might look like a wilfull attempt to evade paying taxes that he knew that he owed.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Dan I wouldn't worry one iota about filing.

First of all does your employer in Thailand send w-2 weage earning statements reporting your income to the IRS every year?

(Im guessing no.)

Did you sign under penalty of pergury any type of witholding agreement making your Thai employer an effective agent of the US government to report your income earned?

(Im guessing no)

Further has your Thai employer been witholding US taxes from your wages any time during your employment?

(Im guessing.....no)

The way the IRS determines if you've been failing to file is when your employer reports to them your income. But if you have a JOB in the US, as an employee your taxes are allready being witheald.

The IRS is a paper tiger. I've NEVER filed my taxes not once in my enitre life and have never had any issues with the IRS.

Dont file now if you havent filed in a while. Besides you cant file without waiving your 5th ammendment rights against being a witness against yourself, and your would only be exposing yourself to potential problems by any admitance of past unreported foreign income.

I'm sure on thiese forums you will find plenty of people whom aren't afraid of the IRS as they have educated themselves of this sham govt. entity.

I'm not saying the Income tax (a capatition tax) is illegal, rather it doesn't meet the constutitional requirement of apportionment as do direct (property) and excise (sales) taxes, so it really comes down to your liability for said tax, and Title 24 of the Internal Revenue code, section 60012 more specifically which deals with personal liability really sums it up quite clearly that is is the taxpayers responsibility to determine their own liability...not even the IRS comissioner can determine a persons tax liability. And its up to you to decide if you are a "taxpayer" as that term is defined in the Internal Revenue Code.

Pay close attention to the words "Shall" and "Should", and remember within means outside the borders of the US and without means inside the borders of the US.

Good luck!!

Mattchu

But then who is going to pay the bill for what the govt picked up for fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? You don't want to see all those Japanese and Chinese lose money on a investment do you.

Never filed? Amazing. How long have you never filed? I mean if you are 20 it's not a big deal.

[Mattchu9999]

At some point he's going to have to file returns for those years unless he manages to live his whole life under the radar of the IRS.

---- The only way the IRS will figure out is if he has a US JOB whereby his employer will require him to fill out a witholding form. Thats the problem with being an EMPLOYEE...the whole tax system is stacked against you. The US tax system is much more favorable to those that own their own company. If he was to have whatever income he earned paid to an LLC or Trust or something he would do miles to avoid any problems with the IRS. I've NEVER had a JOB except for the military. Thats why I never file...remember the goal is to own nothing but controll everything.

I would think that it would be better to do it now, when he can reasonably plead ignorance as being the reason not to file and when he probably doesn't owe any taxes anyway, than later in life when he might be suddenly be making real money and not having filed income taxes the previous X years might look like a wilfull attempt to evade paying taxes that he knew that he owed.

----Pleading ignorance of the law is no excuse for violating it and you will be gaurnteing him an easy win for the IRS. There is a statute of limitations on how far back the IRS can go back on you for, but further by not filing YOU put the burden of proof on the IRS's to prove wilful failure to file. This is dificult for them to do and unless the potential gain is significant such as in publicity (read: high profile cases of celebritys) and or high dollar amounts that can reasonably be recovered to cover their costs in investigating and prosecuting the case.

[Mattchu9999]

Mattchu

But then who is going to pay the bill for what the govt picked up for fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? You don't want to see all those Japanese and Chinese lose money on a investment do you.

Never filed? Amazing. How long have you never filed? I mean if you are 20 it's not a big deal.

Ill tell you what would happen if every American stopped paying the INCOME tax.

First of all FACT 100% of the local, state and federal government services we use including roads, schools, parks, police,fire,military, etc etc...EVERYTHING is paid for from DIRECT (property) taxes and EXCISE (sales tax)

100% of the INCOME tax which is a capatation tax is applied to the national debt.

But if we owe the debt to ourselves why dont we just forgive ourselves of that debt and start from zero right?

Wrong we owe it to the Federal Reserve which is no more federal than Federal Express...

If we stopped paying income taxes, we certainly wouldnt hurt our country...no not one bit. What we would do is prevent the US govet from borrowing any more money which is a huge factor in inflation, which is the deflation of our currency.

I say not paying INCOME taxes is one of the most patriotic things you can do.

And PS Im 32 and was out of the military in 1997 so 11+ years of never filing taxes. As I am not a "taxpayer" as that term is defined in the Internal Revenue Code...

[PeaceBlondie]

Note to skettios, who began this discussion: as a US citizen, you are required to file tax returns on all income, however you earn or receive that income, world wide. That includes foreign earned income, on which you must file and on which you can take the exclusion. It is easy to do on form 255EZ. Once you file with the exclusion, you owe nothing, from what you say. If the IRS files a substitute for return then it is too late to claim the exclusion, as I understand it.

You are being given erroneous advice that was formerly called "illegal tax protester advice."

[Mattchu9999]

Note to skettios, who began this discussion: as a US citizen, you are required to file tax returns on all income, however you earn or receive that income, world wide. That includes foreign earned income, on which you must file and on which you can take the exclusion. It is easy to do on form 255EZ. Once you file with the exclusion, you owe nothing, from what you say. If the IRS files a substitute for return then it is too late to claim the exclusion, as I understand it.

You are being given erroneous advice that was formerly called "illegal tax protester advice."

I ask that you provide proof that anything I said was erroneous or "illegal tax protestor" advise.

really...I am anxious to see what you have to provide to refute any of my claims.

Also why not provde the specific liability statute that requires him to file a return. To make it easy on you start in the 60000 section of Title 24.

Nothing I said was erroneous, false, misleading or illegal.

[OriginalPoster]

Note to skettios, who began this discussion: as a US citizen, you are required to file tax returns on all income, however you earn or receive that income, world wide. That includes foreign earned income, on which you must file and on which you can take the exclusion. It is easy to do on form 255EZ. Once you file with the exclusion, you owe nothing, from what you say. If the IRS files a substitute for return then it is too late to claim the exclusion, as I understand it.

You are being given erroneous advice that was formerly called "illegal tax protester advice."

I ask that you provide proof that anything I said was erroneous or "illegal tax protestor" advise.

really...I am anxious to see what you have to provide to refute any of my claims.

Also why not provde the specific liability statute that requires him to file a return. To make it easy on you start in the 60000 section of Title 24.

Nothing I said was erroneous, false, misleading or illegal.

Another place where risk of not filing comes in is that, absent fraud, there is a 3 year statue of limitations that applies to most tax situations. However the clock for the statute of limitations for any given year's taxes doesn't begin ticking until you submit your tax return for that year. Thus if you fail to file that return for any tax year, the statute of limitations on tax assessments for that year will never run out. For example, if you live abroad for 10 years, and then return to the US, the IRS may question your failure to file returns for those ten years and later make assessments based on their best estimate you're your income. The interest and penalties on any old tax can be substantial. On the other hand, if you do file your tax return each tax year while living abroad, the statute of limitations expires 3 years after you file those returns. That means the IRS cannot go back and try to audit or change those returns later. Therefore, it is best to file a return even if you have no income or don't owe taxes in order to force the statute of limitations to run and preclude the possibility of future problems when/if you decide to return to the US.

[skettios]

I cheerfully applaud the fact that this thread has dissolved into a heated battle on whether or not a U.S. citizen should pay taxes.

That being said, I HAVE to FILE taxes, although I'm pretty sure I don't have to pay anything. I'm going to try and get a K1 visa for my girl, and the first thing it asks for is 3 years of tax returns, which I don't have.

So with that in mind, are you guys telling me that in order to file taxes out of the country, I don't need any supporting paperwork, I just fill out a 1040 attach a F2555-EZ with numbers that I estimated, and that the IRS will accept this?

The only problem being if they choose to audit me, I would then have to come up with something right?

Thanks to everyone who contributed on both sides of the argument.

Dan

[OriginalPoster]

Note to skettios, who began this discussion: as a US citizen, you are required to file tax returns on all income, however you earn or receive that income, world wide. That includes foreign earned income, on which you must file and on which you can take the exclusion. It is easy to do on form 255EZ. Once you file with the exclusion, you owe nothing, from what you say. If the IRS files a substitute for return then it is too late to claim the exclusion, as I understand it.

You are being given erroneous advice that was formerly called "illegal tax protester advice."

I ask that you provide proof that anything I said was erroneous or "illegal tax protestor" advise.

really...I am anxious to see what you have to provide to refute any of my claims.

Also why not provde the specific liability statute that requires him to file a return. To make it easy on you start in the 60000 section of Title 24.

Nothing I said was erroneous, false, misleading or illegal.

In the words of a long ago forgotten sage:

"I knew an old lady who swallowed a fly. I don't know hwy she swallowed a fly. I guess she'll die.

I knew an old lady who swallowed a horse. She died, of course."

As it stands now, the original poster has, at most, swallowed a fly. You're recommending that he swallow a horse. We know the outcome, of course.

Edited July 24, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[OriginalPoster]

I cheerfully applaud the fact that this thread has dissolved into a heated battle on whether or not a U.S. citizen should pay taxes.

That being said, I HAVE to FILE taxes, although I'm pretty sure I don't have to pay anything. I'm going to try and get a K1 visa for my girl, and the first thing it asks for is 3 years of tax returns, which I don't have.

So with that in mind, are you guys telling me that in order to file taxes out of the country, I don't need any supporting paperwork, I just fill out a 1040 attach a F2555-EZ with numbers that I estimated, and that the IRS will accept this?

The only problem being if they choose to audit me, I would then have to come up with something right?

Thanks to everyone who contributed on both sides of the argument.

Dan

If you can prove that your "tax home" was abroad during the period of time in question, and there's no plausible reason to think that you earned US$80K+ per year during those years, then you don't have much to worry about.

Edited July 24, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[PeaceBlondie]

skettios, yes you can file 2555EZ and long form1040 without supporting evidence and it is highly unlikely that it ever be questioned, because generally, the 'burden of proof' to prove income is on the IRS, not you. You just need to show that you qualified for either one of the ways that you can claim the earned income exclusion.

[pampal]

I am not a fan of the IRS, but if you have bank accounts with over 10000 USD in them, you are required to report that as well as file tax returns every year. Even if you don't work or have no income, you still have to declare your foreign bank accounts with over 10000 USD. If you don't file, and the bank reports you, you are in for stiff fines or even worse.

[skettios]

I am not a fan of the IRS, but if you have bank accounts with over 10000 USD in them, you are required to report that as well as file tax returns every year. Even if you don't work or have no income, you still have to declare your foreign bank accounts with over 10000 USD. If you don't file, and the bank reports you, you are in for stiff fines or even worse.

I will keep that in mind Pampal, still not going to be a problem this year.

PeaceBlondie, thanks for stopping in again. I owe you one.

[PeaceBlondie]

PeaceBlondie, thanks for stopping in again. I owe you one.

No problem. As I once told a nice lady taxpayer who had just overpaid a $35,000 bill, "I'm from the government. I'm here to help. The check is in the mail."

[JimGant]

if you have bank accounts with over 10000 USD in them, you are required to report that as well as file tax returns every year.

Yes, if foreign bank account(s) exceed $10000 en total at any time, you need to file Form TD F 90-22.1. But, you need not file a tax return if your gross income subject to taxation doesn't exceed a set amount, e.g., in 2007, if your filing status is 'single' under age 65, you need not file if gross income is under $8750. Included in this $8750, however, is foreign earned income -- even if subject to total exclusion.