Internet Cafe Business

[ttac]

Hi all,

Save the groans about "yet another internet cafe". I know There's more to it than just an internet cafe and I'm a year out. Just looking for some initial info.

My question is: What do I need to do to legally set up an Internet Cafe business? Can I legally do all the configuration and maintenance on all the systems?

Thanks in advance.

ttac

[kiakaha]

Hi all,

Save the groans about "yet another internet cafe". I know There's more to it than just an internet cafe and I'm a year out. Just looking for some initial info.

My question is: What do I need to do to legally set up an Internet Cafe business? Can I legally do all the configuration and maintenance on all the systems?

Thanks in advance.

ttac

do you have a work permit for this business venture ? if so , yes, you can perform that technical work legally.Many foreigners legally work in the IT industry in Thailand.

you will want to hire a thai shop assistant/cashier/cleaner/nose picker/cushion sitter though as you can't legally work in this capacity. but you can still run the business(pull the strings) and perform all the necessary technical work.

[onethailand]

As Kiakaha said, you will need a work permit.

That being said, as of Aug. 23rd, running an Internet cafe will no longer be an attractive business as you will need to keep logs of all your customers' activities, as well as record their personal details, thanks to the draconian new Internet Law. If there's more to your business, I suggest you concentrate on the "more".

[bino]

That being said, as of Aug. 23rd, running an Internet cafe will no longer be an attractive business as you will need to keep logs of all your customers' activities, as well as record their personal details, thanks to the draconian new Internet Law.

Is this posted online anywhere to check it out?

[mgjackson69]

I would not go so far as to state that the "logging requirement", if it comes to pass, would make an Internet Cafe "no longer an attractive business".

I would certainly put some extra requirements onto the business owner.

[onethailand]

I would not go so far as to state that the "logging requirement", if it comes to pass, would make an Internet Cafe "no longer an attractive business".

I would certainly put some extra requirements onto the business owner.

Given the current low margins of most internet cafes, plus the potential difficulties brought on by the new law, I am quite certain that the business is no longer attractive (having owned and operated one a couple of years back). Though I don't do anything unusual at cafes myself, I am certainly not about to produce ID and register just so I can check my email. I certainly wouldn't do that in any other country either - it's not like I carry my passport with me wherever I go.

What it means is that cafes will mostly be used out of necessity, rather than the desire to check email and kill an hour or so lazing away with a coffee and a bit of spare time. That, in my opinion and experience, will have a significant impact on the income of an internet cafe.

Oh - and by the way, the law takes effect starting Saturday. It's not a matter of "if it comes to pass".

Bino, I haven't found the actual text - but a conversation with the CEO of an ISP did make it patently clear that the law affects everyone, though in his case they already have sufficient facilities to meet the law.

A 500,000 baht fine is a huge deterrent - it is probably the biggest ever specific fine detailed in law in Thailand. Littering or smoking in prohibited areas only costs you 2,000 baht.

Edited August 19, 2008 by onethailand

[mgjackson69]

No doubt it adds some extra burden to anyone providing internet services.

There is a lot of rumor flying around about this as far as what the requirements are.

Does anyone truly know?

[Heng]

Another small thing you may have to worry about is people installing non-licensed software, or downloading illegal material (MP3s are the most common in my experience) to your shop computers. True, you can setup your computers to where nothing can be installed or downloaded (but the latter may lower the number of customers you get a bit).

Depending on the infringed upon party, you can hit with periodic fines (or "taxes" from the BIB). A friend of mine who has a shop on Walking Street got hit for 50,000 Baht last year... and that's despite being somewhat 'influential' in that area.

[think_too_mut]

No doubt it adds some extra burden to anyone providing internet services.

There is a lot of rumor flying around about this as far as what the requirements are.

Does anyone truly know?

I could not believe it myself.

Now, looks like this stupidity will be the law, Burma style.

I am still trying to grasp what they want to achieve.

Would the shops running pirated XP or whatever be caught?

Edited August 19, 2008 by think_too_mut

[ttac]

onethailand, thanks for that bit of information, I'll start looking into it and see what it really means. Of course, with planning being a year out, this will probably fade away by then.

Understand the concern about illegal downloading and issues with Windows XP. My background is with Linux, so I intend on installing all computers with some flavor of Linux with a Windows look and feel. I'll let folks download anything they want to and will address "cleaning up" after the user as well. That won't be too big of a deal.

I'll look into the work permit as well, but can anyone provide me with any idea of the feasibility of me actually getting a work permit for this?

Hiring folks shouldn't be too much of a problem. Intent is for it to be family owned and operated.

Not rushing into this at all. If the numbers add up then I'll take it on.

[kiakaha]

I'll look into the work permit as well, but can anyone provide me with any idea of the feasibility of me actually getting a work permit for this?

You'll have to look into..unless you want to break the law.

It is 100% feasable to get a WP for this described endeavour.

You'll have to incorporate a company(i wont list all the requirements here, just google it), enter on a non imm o or b visa , get work permit/tax id etc....

SunBeltAsia know their stuff, try contacting them for a professional consultation.

Alot of crap to go through to get fully legal i know. but thats just the way it is.

[think_too_mut]

I'll look into the work permit as well, but can anyone provide me with any idea of the feasibility of me actually getting a work permit for this?

You'll have to look into..unless you want to break the law.

It is 100% feasable to get a WP for this described endeavour.

You'll have to incorporate a company(i wont list all the requirements here, just google it), enter on a non imm o or b visa , get work permit/tax id etc....

SunBeltAsia know their stuff, try contacting them for a professional consultation.

Alot of crap to go through to get fully legal i know. but thats just the way it is.

Yes, it's back to the topic.

When it comes to the WP, could not Thais do that kind of job?

This is not any kind of corporate transfer, nothing like some kind of a specialist.

Anywhere, upcountry, anyone + their dog can open an Internet Cafee. Nothing special that Thais can not do .

There would have been tens of thousands of WPs issued to the people who can run an Internet caffee.

I still have to hear of 1 single WP issued for that purpose.

[ttac]

You'll have to look into..unless you want to break the law.

It is 100% feasable to get a WP for this described endeavour.

You'll have to incorporate a company(i wont list all the requirements here, just google it), enter on a non imm o or b visa , get work permit/tax id etc....

SunBeltAsia know their stuff, try contacting them for a professional consultation.

Alot of crap to go through to get fully legal i know. but thats just the way it is.

Definitely not looking to break any laws.. hence my post

I'll get up with SunBeltAsia and find out some specifics.

[onethailand]

Your work permit would be issued to allow you to run your company, not necessarily to be the technician

Re: software, the BSA has been around for years and periodically (read: about two years) makes a big bust or two to show that they mean business - but to be frank they are mostly toothless because they simply don't have the human resources to make enforcement work.

When I ran my cafe, I took no chances and bought original software. Never got checked LOL. But as your background is Linux, and if your only intent is to provide Internet connectivity, I wouldn't even bother with Windows.

MP3s are not a big problem, provided you don't store them somewhere on your systems. And here, you'd get busted by the wonderful people responsible for music copyright, rather than the BSA.

A short excerpt from my ISP CEO friend:

Because it's a law, it affects everyone. But the key is that once there is someone broke the law from a system that you own or control (including providing services to), you will need to be able to identify the culprit.

Basically, if you provide a public service, you will be responsible for identifying the culprit. Theoretically speaking, even if you were to let a friend use your computer from your house, you would be responsible as well.

The Post article (http://www.bangkokpost.com/130808_News/13Aug2008_news11.php) said:

From Aug 23, private firms, organisations and government agencies will be required to store all internet traffic data for 90 days so it is available as digital evidence for police. Pol Col Yannapol Youngyuen, commander of the Bureau of Technology and Cyber Crime at the Department of Special Investigation, said the IT Ministry order has no exceptions and will include banks, hotels, schools and internet cafes.

He said digital evidence gathered from computers is useful in tracking those engaged in cyber crime.

Cyber offences, ranging from email forwarding of pornographic pictures to posting libellous messages on forums, are on the rise, Pol Col Yannapol said, but police agencies find it hard to gather the evidence to bring the perpetrators to justice.

He said internet cafes will also be required to collect information to identify computer users, such as ID cards, time of logging in and sites visited. Shops that fail to heed the rules will face fines up to 500,000 baht, he said.

The real question is just who is affected by the law - but the answer from my friend was pretty clear - he said everyone is affected.

Undoubtedly the law is a bit loose, thus allowing police to apply it vaguely if they should so choose. How enforcement will actually take place, however, remains to be seen.

[think_too_mut]

Your work permit would be issued to allow you to run your company, not necessarily to be the technician

And your WP was issued for that business? Of running an Internet caffee?

[onethailand]

Your work permit would be issued to allow you to run your company, not necessarily to be the technician

And your WP was issued for that business? Of running an Internet caffee?

I think I made it plenty clear that the WP was issued for the purpose of running my company - of which ONE of the items was an internet cafe (and another being all sorts of IT work). And strangely enough, that also meant that I maintained the computers, and even made the coffee sometimes.

You do not require any particular knowledge to get a work permit - as long as you have a sponsor (in my case my own company), and are not coming in to work in an occupation on the restricted list, and your company has the minimum capital and human resources required, you get a work permit.

Edited August 19, 2008 by onethailand

[Cuban]

>...work permit would be issued to allow you to run your company, not necessarily to be the technician...

The exact job title on the WP might not be technician but Foreign Relations Manager or Project Consultant, better that way as it covers a number of subjects without nailing down exactly what you do. In real life you can build up your computers and LAN etc. but you might need 'staff' around when you are carrying out this 'training" event.

The company ownership is an area that you might need to have a Thai proxy depending where you have any 'special' situations availible to you based on your nationality, ie American?

This idea is a popular one and reading through the history of threads of this nature would be time well spent, the business forum and Techie forums will probably have most of them but look in the area forums as well. I recall writting a reply where I speculated on some real life figures for costs and estimated incomes. In busy locations you probably need to be open 18 hours a day - and you make most money from drinks and snacks. So catering might be a close second (first?) skill-set to technical understanding.

With regard to the MP3 and downloaded content 'problem' - addressing this particular issue might be a subject that could warrant a business idea in itself. Maybe as a consultant via an established IT company.

The use of a smart card to log computer time is a well established one, I know some net-cafes that wipe 'user directories' after the smart card is removed as such a 'misuse' protection and I have heard of reformating the computer each night. All good practices but in these paranoid and legally sensitive days I was thinking that the use of USB thumb drives could provide a solution - even better if they had fingerprint reading capabilities.

To use the computer the customer is given a fingerprint USB drive (1 Gb?), which they plug into the USB port on the PC they are using - this becomes the default user storage area and provides accounting on computer use time. The fingerprint confirms the user is that person and is valid for that session. Any net cafe that runs advance purchase of computer time can rent (sell?) the USB drive to that customer much in the same way that Smart Cards are used already. When they have finished with that computer access session or at the end of their advanced time purchase the USB drive is wiped and reformated. With fingerprint information erased.

Whether you choose to record the URL information at this level is up to you.

However - would your average customer feel happy using such a system - considering the general level of understanding these days about security of personal data, fingerprints etc.

I recall about 7 or 8 years ago using a net cafe in a very non-tourist area in Bangkok, I was asked to sign a book before being allowed access to a computer.

I really don't see Thai systems being advanced enough to get any useful data or track any particular event/incident from the data being gathered - I feel this is another 'law' to allow someone somewhere to say that measures have been taken to stop X on the internet in Thailand.

[Merlin]

FWIW I remember a Scottish guy about 5 years ago, opened a net cafe on Naklua Rd with his wife. He would keep the machines running, and do the photo printing etc. She brought in the most money by translating "send me money" emails to/from bargirls in the bars around there.

After a few months the BiB showed up. . .

Net result - about 140K to make them go away, then another 60K to get set up legally.

A few months later the BiB were back, saying he could only have 3 PCs running at any one time, he had 10 PCs at that time. Another 70K [10K per PC] took care of that...