PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[baht&sold]

Pardon my barging in the middle (or end?) here, just my humble take on all the ongoing noise:

-Clearly, the last thing Thailand needs is yet another coup and thankfully the Military agrees. Of course the other fear was/is of a violent intervention but due to Mr Samak's welcome change of strategy (some say due to military leaders advice;) thankfully this now looks less likely.

The PAD's base just cause to take an alleged corrupt proxy-Govt to task with peaceful means, has now regretfully been subverted by their own rash recent actions. One hopes the PAD leaders may also now re-assess their current bold but ultimately failed and flawed strategies...

Some of the PAD's more subtle notions ala having a 50% or more appointed Govt rightly raises eyebrows. One could argue, the Thai political system is so inept and riddled with corruption it NEEDS 'baby-sitting', however, this is NOT what Thailand needs to truly go forward.

Unfortunately, it appears Thailand needs to get one 'khrap' corrupt Govt after another, no matter the cost to the nation or it's people, until the electorate themselves one day collectively say 'enough already' - and STOP accepting vote-buying, corruption and nepotism as a way of life.

Also unfortunately, this could take many, many years. Thus the PAD's desperate attempts to fast-forward what is not a revolutionary process, rather an evolutionary process - regardless arguably borne from a just contemporary uprising, based on urgent need in the face of seemingly endless 'same-same'... (and despite a long-standing telecoms fall-out feud between Sondhi and Thaksin;)

To achieve the end-goal sooner, the crucial 'vote-growing' region of the tragically trapped peoples of Isaan would have to undergo a sea-change of awareness and finally be granted real access to real progressive change (not the mere mirages or dissolving candy-bait consistently offered).

OR, (hypothetically) perhaps leave Isaan in the dark and correctly declared an autonomous or legal vote-buying zone, doomed to eternal bond-enslavement. Thus, left to be preyed upon perpetually by a self-serving network of PPP/TRT connected Phu Yai's, local authorities, rice millers, canvassers, etc, etc, whom all shape and control their hard working lives. Ultimately for the exclusive mutual shared political and monetary benefit which follows, for the controlling groups...

Bottom line - like 'em or loathe them, the current Govt was elected into power - no matter by alleged questionable methods and regardless 'good' governance and 'elected' governance are demonstrably worlds apart).

Realistic bottom line then - The Govt should be left to do their work along with a Judiciary left to do the same. This offers the only way forward, for better or worse. The PAD leaders had their moment(s) but this is now gone too far and they should NOW accept this, no matter how bitter it may be for them to do so.

When a peaceful protest crosses the line of civil-disobedience or prevents even one of it's followers from leaving (regardless of 'security' concerns), it's leaders have clearly and unfortunately lost the plot and should now cease and desist.

One could still argue, taking over a publicly funded TV station already taken over by Govt mouthpieces, or the lawn of Govt House owned by the public pales in comparison to the Govt's systematic takeover of many independent agencies and watchdogs such as taking over the board of the Bank of Thailand to name but one. Plus the Govt's stated burning desire to make self-serving changes to the constitution in the 'hopes' of negating vote-buying charges and possibly also the charges against their patrons, all packaged as changes for 'the people'...

Unfortunately/ironically, all these very valid issues have been utterly lost in the translation of the current noise in the headlines created by the PAD's own recent actions - for now.

The PAD leaders could perhaps salvage some goodwill by presenting themselves for arrest, removing any further concern for the safety of their followers. Not likely they wouldn't be granted bail as even more protest may ensue but it would be interesting if they were - and they then fled to say, England... (not likely to seek refuge in nearer Cambodian casinos afterall;)

Meanwhile, some fellow Expats simply wish 'all the noise' would recede and things would simply just 'go back the way they were'... Well, your wish is granted, as things ARE indeed the way they were - and these ARE the good 'ol days yearned for - or at least the very predictable and seemingly never-ending hangover courtesy of Mr Thaksin, whom has NEVER truly left...

Ultimately, the rule of law must prevail, as this is the the only way forward for Thailand. One remains optimistic, better days lay beyond, after the fallout from this period in time and after the next few months of many changes certainly to come.

(the brick-throwing may now commence, or rather re-commence...)

Edited August 28, 2008 by baht&sold

[stuandchris]

Actually peaceful disobedience is a hugely effective tool, it worked on a full sub continent in the 40's, sure it took time but it stops effective governance, any force from authority then makes people martyrs.

I have no agenda from either side, I think the Gov are playing a good game letting this peter out on it's own, if they go in gung ho [as some are advocating] then you risk Tianaman square images which Thailand can't shrug off as China could.

As for the violent protests, some people have golf clubs and iron bars but who has been hurt yet? A bit of glass and a few gates, whoopee do.

40,000 protestors on the streets and no confrontation and no serious injury is as peaceful as it gets.G8 summits end in cracked heads all round.

Personally I am amazed that all three sides are showing constraint.

I don't support PAD, I think Thai Gov is as corruput as it gets but get a grip here chaps.

[animatic]

Good post, baht&sold

while I don't agree with all of it, it is generally well reasoned.

Stuandchris good one also.

You may not want the dockyard cat coming in your cabin,

but it's still very useful at making numerous rats jump ship before you sail.

And too bed with it all.

Edited August 28, 2008 by animatic

[tropo]

The Commerce Minister is not worried that the anti-government protests in Bangkok will have an impact on the local economy and brushes aside calls for the country to clarify the issue with the international community.

Incredibly, the bullet proof Thai baht lost ony .10 to the US dollar today and it's still stronger than it was on Tuesday.

[scyriacus]

... and more about Panlop's pact with Chamlong...

Panlop to step in if Chamlong arrested

what a clever chess move! now samak has a choice: arrest the peaceful chamlong and get the proud murderer panlop. what will samak do? he better give in and step down. he has no chance and only 3 friends on thai visa......

[plachon]

Good post bahtandsold. Close to my sentiments, but not sure how the "Isaan legal vote buying zone" thing would work. Maybe worth exploring on in a later post, when the dust settles.

[onethailand]

PAD is reporting that the police plan to enter between 5-8 am today. They have called for those who absolutely must leave to go out the back entrances, and for those PAD supporters outside Government House, to mass near the entrances.

Of course, we've heard this a number of times already, and hopefully this will just be another of those idle threats, so to speak...

Edited August 28, 2008 by onethailand

[learningcurveasia]

Informing those that wish to leave,to leave at a designated time etc,via loudhailers etc would be a start,but with the PAD speakers drowning out thought,it would be a bit of wasted effort.

1,000 riot police achieved nowt! Where is the Police elite these days?

I Know many that have recently gone to the sidelines but been told to standoff!

I wish dearly for peaceful resolution to this,but also need to see a backbone for the future.

I have been here ten years have a wife and children and a business (Thai) another year of impasse is not acceptable to me or my family.

[scyriacus]

65 m people allow 35,000 to stop the wheels!

you are wrong. the 2 people who are trying to enslave thailand and make 65m thai people work like hamsters in a treadmill for them to become or stay billionaires are tax-sin and his puppet samak .... only 35,000 try to stop these two.....

[onethailand]

Informing those that wish to leave,to leave at a designated time etc,via loudhailers etc would be a start,but with the PAD speakers drowning out thought,it would be a bit of wasted effort.

It was a PAD speaker who made the announcement - thus everyone in the compound heard it loud and clear. The police are certainly not going to announce when they intend to raid.

[learningcurveasia]

you are wrong. the 2 people who are trying to enslave thailand and make 65m thai people work like hamsters in a treadmill for them to become or stay billionaires are tax-sin and his puppet samak .... only 35,000 try to stop these two.....

Interesting.Anyone that believes that Toxin et-el is NOT the puppet master to some degree is in need of a check up.

BUT again 35,000 uneducated farm people does not mean shit, unless the rest make actions,or the generalpopulation support or deride their actions.

Until then soft gloves are not needed.Actions are needed,also as a reassurance to the rest of us that somebody is in power.

[Tony Clifton]

....Thaksin in his two landslide victories. Which by the way, were one of the cleanest elections ever in Thailand. People who explain his popularity on vote buying alone, are wrong.

sure they are wrong. tax-sin is not a billionaire by accident. he is cunning....he not only bought voters, he also buys parties, politicians, judges (obviously he didn't pay enough, meager 2 millions, what an insult!), businesses, generals (also poor judgement, the wrong ones!). he simply tried to turn thailand into his 100% owned enterprise (see his 100% tax-evasion!). he was too greedy and too thrifty at the same time (a clear sign of megalomania!). let us forget about him and his 'clean' politics and let us look forward into a better future for all the thai people (other than tax-sin and his cronies alone)......

Reading your highlighted text over and over is like listening to someone with Tourette syndrome.

[Spee]

Pardon my barging in the middle (or end?) here, just my humble take on all the ongoing noise:

-Clearly, the last thing Thailand needs is yet another coup and thankfully the Military agrees. Of course the other fear was/is of a violent intervention but due to Mr Samak's welcome change of strategy (some say due to military leaders advice;) thankfully this now looks less likely.

. . . . . . . . . . .

Ultimately, the rule of law must prevail, as this is the the only way forward for Thailand. One remains optimistic, better days lay beyond, after the fallout from this period in time and after the next few months of many changes certainly to come.

(the brick-throwing may now commence, or rather re-commence...)

One of the few voices of reason in the last several pages of this thread. Very well said, IMHO!

[tropo]

Interesting.Anyone that believes that Toxin et-el is NOT the puppet master to some degree is in need of a check up.

I don't believe the self-exiled Thaksin is pulling any strings. Were do you suggest I get my checkup?

[scyriacus]

Interesting.Anyone that believes that Toxin et-el is NOT the puppet master to some degree is in need of a check up.

I don't believe the self-exiled Thaksin is pulling any strings. Were do you suggest I get my checkup?

i am 'self-exiled' but have no warrants at home, no lost bail, no frozen assets. i'd rather call tax-sin a criminal fugitive who jumped bail. would you not try to 'pull any strings' which could bring you closer to your lost several billions? if not, i can recommend a good shrink and some mental hospitals where you are treated with utmost care and checked up at an affordable price...........

[tropo]

Interesting.Anyone that believes that Toxin et-el is NOT the puppet master to some degree is in need of a check up.

I don't believe the self-exiled Thaksin is pulling any strings. Were do you suggest I get my checkup?

i am 'self-exiled' but have no warrants at home, no lost bail, no frozen assets. i'd rather call tax-sin a criminal fugitive who jumped bail. would you not try to 'pull any strings' which could bring you closer to your lost several billions? if not, i can recommend a good shrink and some mental hospitals where you are treated with utmost care and checked up at an affordable price...........

Thanks for your pm. I made my opinion clear. I don't find it reasonable for people with opposing points of view to claim that the person with differing views is mentally retarded...get it?

[ClaytonSeymour]

I guess that Thailand will be moving up the table (see link), something they can be really proud of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...ed_States_Index

[scyriacus]

Interesting.Anyone that believes that Toxin et-el is NOT the puppet master to some degree is in need of a check up.

I don't believe the self-exiled Thaksin is pulling any strings. Were do you suggest I get my checkup?

i am 'self-exiled' but have no warrants at home, no lost bail, no frozen assets. i'd rather call tax-sin a criminal fugitive who jumped bail. would you not try to 'pull any strings' which could bring you closer to your lost several billions? if not, i can recommend a good shrink and some mental hospitals where you are treated with utmost care and checked up at an affordable price...........

Thanks for your pm. I made my opinion clear. I don't find it reasonable for people with opposing points of view to claim that the person with differing views is mentally retarded...get it?

got it! that is unreasonable! and that was the only reason why you denied that tax-sin is pulling strings? and i repeat: if you were tax-sin and not try to get your loot back, i would advice tax-sin to a mental hospital. do you now believe that tax-sin is at least trying to pull some strings? if not, please pm me, coz my answer would not be suitable for the public......

[tropo]

Interesting.Anyone that believes that Toxin et-el is NOT the puppet master to some degree is in need of a check up.

I don't believe the self-exiled Thaksin is pulling any strings. Were do you suggest I get my checkup?

i am 'self-exiled' but have no warrants at home, no lost bail, no frozen assets. i'd rather call tax-sin a criminal fugitive who jumped bail. would you not try to 'pull any strings' which could bring you closer to your lost several billions? if not, i can recommend a good shrink and some mental hospitals where you are treated with utmost care and checked up at an affordable price...........

Thanks for your pm. I made my opinion clear. I don't find it reasonable for people with opposing points of view to claim that the person with differing views is mentally retarded...get it?

got it! that is unreasonable! and that was the only reason why you denied that tax-sin is pulling strings? and i repeat: if you were tax-sin and not try to get your loot back, i would advice tax-sin to a mental hospital. do you now believe that tax-sin is at least trying to pull some strings? if not, please pm me, coz my answer would not be suitable for the public......

What is this? An inquisition? I need to conform to your viewpoint or else?

You know my point of view, I know yours. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

Due to your offensive and overly aggressive style of debate, there is no point to continue discussing this.

Edited August 28, 2008 by tropo

[scyriacus]

What is this? An inquisition? I need to conform to your viewpoint or else?

You know my point of view, I know yours. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

this is no inquisition, you need not conform to nothing but the forum rules. i just asked you a simple question and i still don't know your point of view. you said "tax-sin doesn't pull any strings" and then you said you only said it, because you did not like people who declare dissenting people insane. i got your last point and agreed. but you still owe the forum one serious answer to the first question: does tax-sin pull strings? yes or no? what is your real opinion, what is your argument? or do you want to be compared with one of those trolls trying to stir unrest and discord? you surely don't wanna be a coward who shuns to answer with a clear position after he interfered in a discourse. you are kindly invited to share your opinion with us and the forum, so what is your opinion? does tax-sin pull or not? we'd like to discuss thai politics, and not someones insanity. (that was so obviously just a common way of speaking) if it inflamed you, i'm really sorry. that was not meant. but now we wait for your honest position towards tax-sin.........................

edited after edit by tropo ps: "Due to your offensive and overly aggressive style of debate, there is no point to continue discussing this" so you wanna be the coward who can't stand his ground after stiring discord. that in fact does make me feel

Edited August 28, 2008 by scyriacus

[sriracha john]

- remember - Mussolini made the trains run on time.

The irony rolls on... but the trains don't...

Nationwide train strike

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Trains-Stop-...ni-t209117.html

[sriracha john]

The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to the opinion that the initial PAD protests on Tuesday were "poisoned" somehow. Nothing we've seen from the PAD before and nothing we've seen from the PAD over the past two days (not including Tuesday obviously) seems to match the behavior of people that morning.

I just wish the leaders would make an official statement on their opinions of events. Maybe now is not the time...

If one would have observed the PAD with open eyes

the "Srivichai Warriors" - started open displays of weapons

such as

hidden knifes.

Superman mustn't be the only one with x-ray vision???

[jumnien]

So, now the PAD admits to General Panlop's leadership role. Yes, Gen Panlop was the man who ordered the infamous attack on Krue Se mosque flouting an order from Gen Chavalit not to do so. The scum in the PAD have absolutely no morals or common sense.

[Loaded]

....Thaksin in his two landslide victories. Which by the way, were one of the cleanest elections ever in Thailand. People who explain his popularity on vote buying alone, are wrong.

sure they are wrong. tax-sin is not a billionaire by accident. he is cunning....he not only bought voters, he also buys parties, politicians, judges (obviously he didn't pay enough, meager 2 millions, what an insult!), businesses, generals (also poor judgement, the wrong ones!). he simply tried to turn thailand into his 100% owned enterprise (see his 100% tax-evasion!). he was too greedy and too thrifty at the same time (a clear sign of megalomania!). let us forget about him and his 'clean' politics and let us look forward into a better future for all the thai people (other than tax-sin and his cronies alone)......

Reading your highlighted text over and over is like listening to someone with Tourette syndrome.

[fuzedcon]

Superman mustn't be the only one with x-ray vision???

Would you please not cut and paste my post completely out of context to distort it so it fits your semi-flame there.

this was my post:

One month ago the PAD guards - the "Srivichai Warriors" - started open displays of weapons such as batons, golf clubs, slingshots, and also carried camouflaged swords and hidden knifes.

I would also like to draw your attention to a previous post, which described how three journalists were threatened by PAD guards. Those incidents are so common there, that most journalists don't even bother anymore to complain to PAD leaders.

I myself have been threatened twice tonight by those guards for doing my job, which is extremely intimidating, being surrounded by these thugs with metal bars and batons.

So thank you very much for your comment, and please, if you only intend to aggravate me - then please don't comment anymore to my posts. I am tired, pissed off, haven't slept yet, and might have to get back to the mess soon again.

[Jai Dee]

Shoving match

Protesters armed with clubs pushed and forced police off the grounds of Government House early on Friday morning as a senior PAD member threatened to make demonstrations "more aggressive". The 1am confrontation ended with 400 police retreating to the street after being threatened by demonstrators armed with sticks and golf clubs.

After their muscle-flexing "victory", the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters celebrated by dancing to rock music. "We can relax now, but please be cautious, they might return soon," a protest organiser told the gathering, now in its four day of occupying Government House, despite a court order to leave.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[lifeisrandom]

my wife's friend has set up a sum tum stand somewhere inside of the government house - she is paying 3000 baht a day in rent and is seeing a profit of 5-6000 baht a day so far

[sriracha john]

I would also like to draw your attention to a previous post, which described how three journalists were threatened by PAD guards. Those incidents are so common there, that most journalists don't even bother anymore to complain to PAD leaders.

I myself have been threatened twice tonight by those guards for doing my job, which is extremely intimidating, being surrounded by these thugs with metal bars and batons.

So thank you very much for your comment, and please, if you only intend to aggravate me - then please don't comment anymore to my posts. I am tired, pissed off, haven't slept yet, and might have to get back to the mess soon again.

that's fine... go get some sleep... I wouldn't want you to miss out on the "scoop" of the police busting through the gates like they did the first night of the Government House saga... which you obviously missed, but yet still denied it even happened and I definitely won't ask how you saw the hidden knives if they were hidden because I don't wish to aggravate you .

Edited August 29, 2008 by sriracha john

[marshbags]

Treason charges too harsh for PAD leaders: senators

By The Nation

A group of 30 senators on Thursday questioned whether police were too harsh in charging the nine leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy for treason.

[snip]

Senator Rosana Tositrakul said 80 per cent of protesters inside Government House were women and children who participated in the rally at their free will.

Rosana called on authorities to avoid using force against peaceful protesters.

She said from her own experience as a former activist, police often exaggerated the charges filed against protesters. She said she once successful sought the judicial intervention to order police to reduce the charges.

It might be worth noting that this Senator, at least, is listed in Wikipedia as being part of the original PAD management committee. She may not be entirely without bias.

...you can also observe the many women and children...

marshbags

the presence of children buffering the protesters from the police (as was reported in this mornings Post) speaks volumes.

Try looking at the ASTV channels for a decent amount of time and you will also see that this is not, as you would seemingly indicate when quoting the B.Post .

This way you can see for yourself and get a true indication as to what is really going on / happening.

This latest quote you add is worthy of the NBT,s unprincipled reporters and can be read as mischievious to say the least for those who do not live here, and therefore will not otherwise have the benefit of the reality of the situation.

marshbags

Perhaps the Post reporter would do better to watch ASTV rather than observing first hand eh? And YOU remarked on the number of children present. But his/her observation was "Women and children sat in rows at the gates to prevent police from storming the compound."

Noble.

As it was you who was mischievously using the B.Post quote in relation to the children ect. ect. may i suggest that you need to look at ASTV and ascertain the mis truths in your quote.

Just for the record perhaps you can post the url for reference, as to the context of what was quoted in this instance, instead of one line that can and does give mis interpretation when it is desired. !!!!!!!!

Shame on you for using the children as an excuse to undermind what is most certainly a peaceful demonstration, as have those on all previous occasions.

Do you honestly believe that women and children would be present if the intentions where anything other than peaceful ??????????

As in your case there where those who highlighted isolated incidents that where shown out of context by the media, to make it more news worthy, and more importantly give an adverse effect in relation to inciting trouble, when there wasn,t any.

Make no mistake, should trouble start then it will be due to hired / paid third party thugs, who,s objective is to cause mayhem. and provide ammunition / excuses for the opposition to respond violently to, as is their trait when they cannot enforce their self rewarding interests onto the genuine, caring citizens of Thailand

marshbags

P.S.

Apologies to all for the repeat, repeat quotes, i tried editing certain parts out, but it didn,t seem to make sense.

Edited August 29, 2008 by marshbags

[sriracha john]

At the end of the day, we're all humans...