PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[Thai at Heart]

The average age of farmers is growing every year as the youth move to Bangkok to work. In 20 years there won't be anyone left in the fields. It would be interesting if people were allowed to vote where they reside, and not where they come from. The dems wouldn't get a seat even in Bangkok.

Interesting comment given one of the reasons the Dems picked up a lot of votes in the last election has been attributed to the exact opposite of what you say. In the last national election, a Thai national could vote where they live if their name appeared on the house registration in the constituency for at least 90 days up to the date of the election.

So one had to own a property. Economic apartheid if ever there was. Live, eat, sleep, even pay tax living in Bangkok, but unable to afford a property and you better go home.

"For advance voting, 201,683 Bangkok residents, accounting for 4.91 per cent of 4.1 million eligible voters, cast their ballots last Saturday and Sunday."

"In addition, to the 893,659 people who turned up for out-of-seat constituency voting. That doesn't count the unknown amount of laborers who returned home for their vote."

On the basis that many are male labour without children in tow from the provinces, could be 2,000,000 out of what would be 6,000,000. No wonder the Dems never make a policy worth righting home about, half of the people living in a constituency will have their vote counted 500 km away.

"Voters are normally required to cast their ballots in their home constituencies but those that registered beforehand were allowed to vote from afar in advance polling that took place over the weekend.

...

Sakda Joong-jai, a 27-year-old factory worker from Nakhon Ratchasima, said he been working in Ayutthaya for three years and did not know the candidates running in his home constituency. He had to ask friends and family back home for advice on who to vote for, he said.

Preecha Kotsri, 39, also from Nakhon Ratchasima, who has been living and working in Ayutthaya since 2002, said it was hard to make a decision as he did not know any of the candidates. He, like many others, called his family in the Northeast to ask for advice."

I bet passing the law that people had to vote in their home province was a good idea when it took a week to get there, and there were no absentee ballots. Imagine how many up country people never voted 20 years ago simply because the puu yai wouldn't let them go? By making these votes count up country instead of counting where people work and reside, it may actually have contributed to strengthening the PPP vote.

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/12/...nce-voting.html

[sriracha john]

The Nation

Protesters erect barbe wires at the exits of the Government House to prevent raids following mobilising of pro-government protesters.//Nanthasit Nitmatha

I don't remember seeing razor wire for sale at my local hardware store.

I wonder where they got it.

It's available all over Thailand. I've even been to a temple fair at a Wat that had Concertina wire strung out to preserve an area...

Barbed wire and Concertina wire are used in thousands of areas .... almost invariably in extremely unsafe conditions.

Welcome to Thailand.

[Old Man River]

I think some are over-idealizing democracy while at the same time not understanding where Thailand is at, notionally.

What we see here is the shifting of power from one set of elites to another, as several posters have noted. That's pretty much the history of politics the world over, but each society has its own way of processing the shift.

Thailand does it this way:

Coup --> new constitution --> elections (sometime followed by another constitution) --> mass protest --> toppled govt and/or next coup

The Thais began the cycle in 1932, codified it in 1947 and have been improving on the same pattern ever since. Sondhi knows the rules of the game very well. Whatever minor violence he has propagated, some say, pales beside the crimes of Thaksin's drug war and Samak's involvement in the 1976 protests. The two have been in collusion together since 1977, shortly after the putdown, when Samak as interior minister allied with Thaksin to ensure ShinCorps got the monopoly bid for Thailand's first telsat system. In some circles they might be considered the civil equivalent of war criminals.

Where else in the world have we seen a political party like the PPP get elected when it's less than a year old? The villages are hoping for more handouts, even when it will put them in further debt.

The coup performed half the job the PAD are trying to finish, for better or worse.

Excellent post!

And I haven't always agreed with earlier ones.

Well put.

While we can't openly discuss Thailand's power structure, the fact is it is not like any other country. Hence, democracy here is also not like any other country.

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand: Protesters misunderstood by Western media?

“There is something wrong with Dan Rivers and CNN. Many details in the articles online contain erroneous info and I've found phrases in English which clearly show they have poor translators working for them. In one very clear example I think it was Dan R. who cut up a quote by Sondhi Limthongkul (leader of PAD) to suggest Sondhi and the movement wants a democracy which would disenfranchise the rural poor—when the full quote is that we need an interim government for a period before holding elections.”

The writer clarifies that PAD is not against democracy; what it opposes is western-style capitalism and its excesses:

“Many news outlets portray PAD as being “not happy” with democracy. PAD is not happy with western style capitalism in Thailand which has grown like a cancer. This kind of capitalism is obviously deeply connected with the debased form of democracy pandered by Thaksin Shinawatra.

“PAD's slogan is ‘toon niyom samarn’ which is like ‘filthy capitalism’ in which you can buy everything and most importantly sell everything including national assets and bring in foreign investors to do what Thai people can do on their own.

“The movement is therefore condemned as being ‘nationalistic’ when in fact it's trying to stop the snowball effect of neocolonialism (economic colonialism). Hyper-nationalism or nationalism (which) leans more towards thinking one's nationality is superior to another—this is not what PAD has ever said”

Then the writer highlights a point missed by mainstream media:

“It's interesting to note, that the Thai idea of democracy at the grassroots level has shades of socialism. In fact many of the key PAD leaders are union leaders which allowed them to shut down the railways and now ports.

“Media in the West has left out the key detail that Thai Muslims are backing this protest as well. Maybe it's a good thing they haven't picked up on it though—before you know it they'll think PAD is a bunch of terrorists.

“Only in Thailand…a movement is 100% supported by the people. PAD gets free food, mobile bathrooms, clothing…everything even ice from volunteers. If they announce on the stage “we need flashlights, batteries, water”—it'll be there soon.”

- Global Voice / 2008-09-01

Aha, "Selling the country". Lets wait for everyone to have a completely over the top reaction to explain why a married foreigner, supporting a wife and two kids, paying taxes isn't able in his own name to own a couple of rai and a house.

[sriracha john]

I think some are over-idealizing democracy while at the same time not understanding where Thailand is at, notionally.

What we see here is the shifting of power from one set of elites to another, as several posters have noted. That's pretty much the history of politics the world over, but each society has its own way of processing the shift.

Thailand does it this way:

Coup --> new constitution --> elections (sometime followed by another constitution) --> mass protest --> toppled govt and/or next coup

The Thais began the cycle in 1932, codified it in 1947 and have been improving on the same pattern ever since. Sondhi knows the rules of the game very well. Whatever minor violence he has propagated, some say, pales beside the crimes of Thaksin's drug war and Samak's involvement in the 1976 protests. The two have been in collusion together since 1977, shortly after the putdown, when Samak as interior minister allied with Thaksin to ensure ShinCorps got the monopoly bid for Thailand's first telsat system. In some circles they might be considered the civil equivalent of war criminals.

Where else in the world have we seen a political party like the PPP get elected when it's less than a year old? The villages are hoping for more handouts, even when it will put them in further debt.

The coup performed half the job the PAD are trying to finish, for better or worse.

Excellent post!

And I haven't always agreed with earlier ones.

Well put.

While we can't openly discuss Thailand's power structure, the fact is it is not like any other country. Hence, democracy here is also not like any other country.

as above, very good post:

[animatic]

House registration only means the owner

has to register whomever is residing there.

Regardless of it being farang or Thai

If I Thai is registered for 90 days he can vote.

Nice try.

[Plus]

" The bleating about vote-buying and patronage politics is simply an attempt to undermine electoral democracy because it seems to be working."

Chang Noi doesn't acknowledge that "it seems to be working" in Isan and parts of the North only, and even there very few powerful political clans have been affected as they switch to the winning side straight after 2000 TRT's victory.

Quite a glaring omission for such popular leftist theory.

[ubonjoe]

I don't agree with the actions of the PAD, and I certainly don't agree with the actions of the government. But yesterday's debate was chilling in the lack of any conciliatory moves at all by the government. Rightly or wrongly, we are facing possible bloodshed. That has to be avoided at all cost. I believe that the government has to show good faith and has to be the 'bigger man' and take measures immediately to stop any voilence. The fact that not once did the government admit to using voilence, nor show any sympathy with victims, while standing firm in their positions, shows a lack of leadership. The opposition, senetors and media beged the government to find solutions - up to four viable solutions were offered (snap referendum, national party while planning for new election, dissolving the house and holding national election in sixty days, and the resignation of the government), these are all options. The government held the debate in order to listen to opinions, but made it clear within the first hour that they were not only going to continue with their combative stance, but used rhetoric which was agressive and rabble rousing. The government should be the better man, it should have a concience. PAD should too, but they do not represent the people, therefore they do not have the moral obligation that should weigh more with the government. Cessation of confrontation should be the government's priority, and the loss of power may have to be its sacrifice. I see no other solution. PAD is not going to go quietly into the night. I hope that Samak does.

All the above options mean caving in to a non elected group of people trying to force their will onto others.

I have another option in mind. A national referendum.

Proposition 1 To amend or not amend the constitution. Yes/No

(This was suggested by Samak a while back)

Proposition 2 Do you support the current goverment. Yes/No

I wonder if PAD would accept this.

[catmac]

Well another court has accepted another suit against Dr T. for malfeasence in office.

Supreme Court accepts mobile phone concession suit against Thaksin

The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions Monday accepted a lawsuit filed against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, accusing him of abusing authority to benefit mobile phone concession of his family.

Thaksin was accused by the suit filed by public prosecutors of causing damages worth Bt66 billion to the state by allowing government agencies concerned to amend the mobile concession contract with Shin Corp.

The court scheduled the first hearing on October 15.

The Nation

The courts don't accept suits unless they see reasonable facts

to make them believe there was a crime committed.

Conviction is for later, but essentially there is enough question

of fact about his dealings in numerous cases, so far most

accepted by courts for adjudication.

So far a scathingly negative track record for his term in office.

Unless you want to argue the PAD has co-opted the courts.

Will this argument come from those defending the current regime,

because the courts have not YET invalidated them?

No, Animatic.

I believe in the rule of law -justly and fairly administered.

PAD believe in the rule of the mob, already described earlier as wanting to be "Judge, Jury and Executioner". Even you have fallen into that trap - yes, the court has said there is a case for examination, you say that "conviction is for later", no fair trial just certain conviction.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

If you listened to yesterday's debate you will know that the opposition party not only accepts it, they proposed it, as I said in my previous post. There are options. The government won't consider them.

[Old Man River]

So one had to own a property. Economic apartheid if ever there was. Live, eat, sleep, even pay tax living in Bangkok, but unable to afford a property and you better go home.

Democracy is different in Thailand. These are the voting requirements. So far, I haven't heard any efforts to get it changed, regardless of which political party has been in power. Have you?

Thai at Heart, I am pasting Animatic's clarification on voting requirements here as it shows the voting requirements to be fair:

House registration only means the owner

has to register whomever is residing there.

Regardless of it being farang or Thai

If I Thai is registered for 90 days he can vote.

Animatic, thanks for the clarification.

[h90]

I don't agree with the actions of the PAD, and I certainly don't agree with the actions of the government. But yesterday's debate was chilling in the lack of any conciliatory moves at all by the government. Rightly or wrongly, we are facing possible bloodshed. That has to be avoided at all cost. I believe that the government has to show good faith and has to be the 'bigger man' and take measures immediately to stop any voilence. The fact that not once did the government admit to using voilence, nor show any sympathy with victims, while standing firm in their positions, shows a lack of leadership. The opposition, senetors and media beged the government to find solutions - up to four viable solutions were offered (snap referendum, national party while planning for new election, dissolving the house and holding national election in sixty days, and the resignation of the government), these are all options. The government held the debate in order to listen to opinions, but made it clear within the first hour that they were not only going to continue with their combative stance, but used rhetoric which was agressive and rabble rousing. The government should be the better man, it should have a concience. PAD should too, but they do not represent the people, therefore they do not have the moral obligation that should weigh more with the government. Cessation of confrontation should be the government's priority, and the loss of power may have to be its sacrifice. I see no other solution. PAD is not going to go quietly into the night. I hope that Samak does.

All the above options mean caving in to a non elected group of people trying to force their will onto others.

I have another option in mind. A national referendum.

Proposition 1 To amend or not amend the constitution. Yes/No

(This was suggested by Samak a while back)

Proposition 2 Do you support the current goverment. Yes/No

I wonder if PAD would accept this.

And I see the pickup with speaker in every village, loud music...trara....vote yes, get 200 Baht...trara and the head of village is telling....if vote yes soon everyone get rich....if vote no evil chuan (or whoever) will take all their rice so they won't have anything to eat or some other complete idiotic horror-story.

[Thai at Heart]

So one had to own a property. Economic apartheid if ever there was. Live, eat, sleep, even pay tax living in Bangkok, but unable to afford a property and you better go home.

Democracy is different in Thailand. These are the voting requirements. So far, I haven't heard any efforts to get it changed, regardless of which political party has been in power. Have you?

No but it is one of the peculiarities of voting in Thailand, and I applaud the migrant laborer for bothering to travel 500ks to go and cast his vote.

[geovalin]

PAD is not happy with western style capitalism in Thailand which has grown like a cancer.

This is the kind of declaration (stupid, aggressive "all the problems come from these filthy farangs" and wrong because Thai has its own style of capitalism) which allows all the excesses from Burma junta to Staline or Castro.

Definitely terrifying!

[ubonjoe]

The Nation

Protesters erect barbe wires at the exits of the Government House to prevent raids following mobilising of pro-government protesters.//Nanthasit Nitmatha

I don't remember seeing razor wire for sale at my local hardware store.

I wonder where they got it.

It's available all over Thailand. I've even been to a temple fair at a Wat that had Concertina wire strung out to preserve an area...

Barbed wire and Concertina wire are used in thousands of areas .... almost invariably in extremely unsafe conditions.

Welcome to Thailand.

Been here a along times so the welcome is a bit late.

Thanks for the info.

Will look for it the next time I go shopping. Might be good for keeping the dogs at bay.

[Old Man River]

So one had to own a property. Economic apartheid if ever there was. Live, eat, sleep, even pay tax living in Bangkok, but unable to afford a property and you better go home.

Democracy is different in Thailand. These are the voting requirements. So far, I haven't heard any efforts to get it changed, regardless of which political party has been in power. Have you?

No but it is one of the peculiarities of voting in Thailand, and I applaud the migrant laborer for bothering to travel 500ks to go and cast his vote.

For those that do, so do I (while voting in Thailand is compulsory, the penalties really wouldn't affect the migrant worker).

[sriracha john]

Even oil production is being affected...

The ongoing railway strike is also disrupting oil production in the country’s biggest onshore well, the Sirikit Oilfield, located in Phitsanulok province, 377 km north of Bangkok.

PTT Exploration and Production (PTTEP) has cut down its daily oil output from about 20,000 barrels per day to just 3,000 due to the difficulty in transporting the oil to refining facilities in Bangkok, while production of LPG and NGV gas was going on as these are used by the electricity utility firm, EGAT, for consumption in the northern part.

A PTTEP spokesman, who confirmed the reduction in output, said they could not transport the crude oil without the railway service, adding that they were losing millions in revenue as only 3,000 barrels could be ferried daily by trucks.

- Straits Times / (today)

[Moonrakers]

Even oil production is being affected...

The ongoing railway strike is also disrupting oil production in the country's biggest onshore well, the Sirikit Oilfield, located in Phitsanulok province, 377 km north of Bangkok.

PTT Exploration and Production (PTTEP) has cut down its daily oil output from about 20,000 barrels per day to just 3,000 due to the difficulty in transporting the oil to refining facilities in Bangkok, while production of LPG and NGV gas was going on as these are used by the electricity utility firm, EGAT, for consumption in the northern part.

A PTTEP spokesman, who confirmed the reduction in output, said they could not transport the crude oil without the railway service, adding that they were losing millions in revenue as only 3,000 barrels could be ferried daily by trucks.

- Straits Times / (today)

Ouch. That's gotta be hurting the government.

[Samuian]

.... voted for the current coalition government when given a free choice.

As it is a 6 Party Coalition which is, more or less, at the helm right now that wrestled itself to power through rampant vote buying* and several giant budget projects promised... the unbiased observer may abstain from calling this an "free elected" government, as very few before have been really voted into parliament!

* soon we will see the result of the election commission and following a court sentence by the supreme court.....

just that runs very slow in Thailand, wouldn't be surprise if it would need another 6 month and than just a change of the name of the party.

If the election commission and the supreme court would work efficient and fast a PAD wouldn't be necessary.

Yep, but here we go - a new Party (Puea Padin) AND a replacement for Mr.Samak is already up the puppetmasters sleeve! He has not only a passport and a couple of court cases to lose!

The Shin.Corp. Team won't give up soon bloodshed or what ever and THIS is what the PAD is all about - to simply try and keep a balance!

If Samak & Co. would it have their way they would have cashed in their little presents - the MEGA-Projects already and the Nation is going to pay the bill for the next decades or even generations - this is what the PAD is for too, to keep the check and balance in check!

[sriracha john]

The Nation

Protesters erect barbe wires at the exits of the Government House to prevent raids following mobilising of pro-government protesters.//Nanthasit Nitmatha

I don't remember seeing razor wire for sale at my local hardware store.

I wonder where they got it.

It's available all over Thailand. I've even been to a temple fair at a Wat that had Concertina wire strung out to preserve an area...

Barbed wire and Concertina wire are used in thousands of areas .... almost invariably in extremely unsafe conditions.

Welcome to Thailand.

Been here a along times so the welcome is a bit late.

Thanks for the info.

Will look for it the next time I go shopping. Might be good for keeping the dogs at bay.

I thought I had read you saying earlier that you've been here for quite a time, which is why I was surprised by your comments as surely you had witnessed barbed wire being used at school boundaries or any number of it and Concertina wire many other inappropriate uses around Thailand. Did you think this all came from some secret stock piles maintained only by shadowy elements of the Army or Police?

It is, however, an improvement to see the wire finally being used in an appropriate situation as it a real threat they are attempting to prevent, given the UDD/DAAD's violent history.

[Thai at Heart]

Even oil production is being affected...

The ongoing railway strike is also disrupting oil production in the country’s biggest onshore well, the Sirikit Oilfield, located in Phitsanulok province, 377 km north of Bangkok.

PTT Exploration and Production (PTTEP) has cut down its daily oil output from about 20,000 barrels per day to just 3,000 due to the difficulty in transporting the oil to refining facilities in Bangkok, while production of LPG and NGV gas was going on as these are used by the electricity utility firm, EGAT, for consumption in the northern part.

A PTTEP spokesman, who confirmed the reduction in output, said they could not transport the crude oil without the railway service, adding that they were losing millions in revenue as only 3,000 barrels could be ferried daily by trucks.

- Straits Times / (today)

Unfortunately, they don't need the oil for heating, because if they could bottle the rhetoric on both sides, it would warm the country for 1000 years.

[Scott]

Somehow I don't think PTT is being completely honest when they say they are losing millions. Maybe not making millions ON THIS OIL FIELD, but they are not losing millions.

[h90]

Even oil production is being affected...

The ongoing railway strike is also disrupting oil production in the country's biggest onshore well, the Sirikit Oilfield, located in Phitsanulok province, 377 km north of Bangkok.

PTT Exploration and Production (PTTEP) has cut down its daily oil output from about 20,000 barrels per day to just 3,000 due to the difficulty in transporting the oil to refining facilities in Bangkok, while production of LPG and NGV gas was going on as these are used by the electricity utility firm, EGAT, for consumption in the northern part.

A PTTEP spokesman, who confirmed the reduction in output, said they could not transport the crude oil without the railway service, adding that they were losing millions in revenue as only 3,000 barrels could be ferried daily by trucks.

- Straits Times / (today)

Ouch. That's gotta be hurting the government.

No...Thailand is not importing oil direct, they have a company switched between which I got told is close to Thaksin and takes a small percentage.

So no problem for the master, what he loose on this side he wins on the other side.

[sriracha john]

PAD is not happy with western style capitalism in Thailand which has grown like a cancer.

This is the kind of declaration (stupid, aggressive "all the problems come from these filthy farangs" and wrong because Thai has its own style of capitalism) which allows all the excesses from Burma junta to Staline or Castro.

Definitely terrifying!

you seem to confirm the writer's title (with a grammatical modification)

Protesters misunderstood by Western"-ers"

[Thai at Heart]

Even oil production is being affected...

The ongoing railway strike is also disrupting oil production in the country's biggest onshore well, the Sirikit Oilfield, located in Phitsanulok province, 377 km north of Bangkok.

PTT Exploration and Production (PTTEP) has cut down its daily oil output from about 20,000 barrels per day to just 3,000 due to the difficulty in transporting the oil to refining facilities in Bangkok, while production of LPG and NGV gas was going on as these are used by the electricity utility firm, EGAT, for consumption in the northern part.

A PTTEP spokesman, who confirmed the reduction in output, said they could not transport the crude oil without the railway service, adding that they were losing millions in revenue as only 3,000 barrels could be ferried daily by trucks.

- Straits Times / (today)

Ouch. That's gotta be hurting the government.

No...Thailand is not importing oil direct, they have a company switched between which I got told is close to Thaksin and takes a small percentage.

So no problem for the master, what he loose on this side he wins on the other side.

Hearsay m'lord. It's the onshore field.

[ubonjoe]

SRT executives resign after labour strike

(BangkokPost.com) - The entire board members of the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) including its chairman Somsak Boonthong have stepped down on Monday after the labour strike vastly disrupted rail services across the country and caused a profit loss of more than 60 million baht.

The SRT board decided to take responsibility for the five-day labour strike through resignation. The purpose of the strike was to show some of the workers’ support for the anti-government group, the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

SRT Governor Yuthana Thapcharoen travelled to Nakhon Sawan and Saraburi provinces on Sunday to negotiate with the union representatives, so they would resume the rail operations soon. On Monday afternoon, Mr Yuthana had talks with the union in Nakhon Ratchasima province after workers suspended seven train engines.

The negotiations aimed to reopen more rail services by Monday evening

[sriracha john]

Even more fallout...

Railway Authority Board resigns to take responsbility for rail line suspensions

Chairman of the Railway Authority of Thailand's Board Somsak Boonthong declared the entire Board's resignation, reasoning that the Railway Union's participation in the nation's political turmoil created inconvenience to the nation's citizens and must be considered unjust.

The resignation follows the suspension of 115 train lines from the Railway Authority of Thailand's 244 lines, which the Board said it must take responsilibity for.

Railway Authority Governor Yuthana Thapcharoen is scheduled to meet and negotiate with the Railway Union this afternoon at the Nakorn Ratchasima train station where 7 train engines have been placed as a stoppage to the Northeastern line.

The situation has so far caused a loss of 60 Million Baht to the Railway Authority.

- ThaiNews / today

[geovalin]

PAD is not happy with western style capitalism in Thailand which has grown like a cancer.

This is the kind of declaration (stupid, aggressive "all the problems come from these filthy farangs" and wrong because Thai has its own style of capitalism) which allows all the excesses from Burma junta to Staline or Castro.

Definitely terrifying!

you seem to confirm the writer's title (with a grammatical modification)

Protesters misunderstood by Western"-ers"

Absolutely wrong.

It's what Thais people say in case of disagreement: "we just do not understand each other". They tell that to avoid any conflict and this is a strategy I respect.

BUT it's wrong, we are not so different and we are not so stupid.

We understand perfectly and we just disagree.

That's it.

The "East is soooooooo mysterious / difficult to understand for westerners" is a legend.

[onethailand]

Breaking front page news on the Bangkok Post:

Note from the Editor

From today, the price of the Bangkok Post, Thailand's leading English-language newspaper, is 30 baht.

[ubonjoe]

The Nation

Protesters erect barbe wires at the exits of the Government House to prevent raids following mobilising of pro-government protesters.//Nanthasit Nitmatha

I don't remember seeing razor wire for sale at my local hardware store.

I wonder where they got it.

It's available all over Thailand. I've even been to a temple fair at a Wat that had Concertina wire strung out to preserve an area...

Barbed wire and Concertina wire are used in thousands of areas .... almost invariably in extremely unsafe conditions.

Welcome to Thailand.

Been here a along times so the welcome is a bit late.

Thanks for the info.

Will look for it the next time I go shopping. Might be good for keeping the dogs at bay.

I thought I had read you saying earlier that you've been here for quite a time, which is why I was surprised by your comments as surely you had witnessed barbed wire being used at school boundaries or any number of it and Concertina wire many other inappropriate uses around Thailand. Did you think this all came from some secret stock piles maintained only by shadowy elements of the Army or Police?

It is, however, an improvement to see the wire finally being used in an appropriate situation as it a real threat they are attempting to prevent, given the UDD/DAAD's violent history.

Of course I have seen barbed wire used. We have it around our property.

Just never saw razor/concertina wire that I can recall. I did put remember in my statement.