State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[Familyonthemove]

will this topic be used for news/bulletins?

With the politiking and interminable dialectic debate on the other 'siege' topic

Well said ...... lets keep at least one thread for news and updates and not for political bickering.

Things seem very normal in central BKK at the moment, except for a breakdown on the Sky Train this morning at around 9:00 that brought the Sukhumvit line to a stop for 15 minutes.

[Spee]

America, like all democracies, is not perfect, but is without a doubt the best form of government going.

So how do you explain executive order and the presidents power to veto anything he wants?

Going OT, but since you asked ...

System of checks and balances. Congress has the ability to over-ride a presidential veto if there is sufficient majority votes in the house and senate.

As far as executive orders, it is separation of powers. The president is the chief executive of the nation and has certain rights exclusive to that office, just as leaders of other branches have rights exclusive to their offices.

Back OT ...

This is the biggest problem I see with the ongoing disputes in Thailand. There seems to be a constant quest for all encompassing power in the central government. This problem is common to both sides in the current dispute, albeit for starkly different reasons.

IMHO, if various powers were more de-centralized, and systems of checks and balances were in place, then there wouldn't be these constant quests to be at the seat of all this centralized power.

I don't see too many heroes within the leadership of either side. Their motives are selfish and self-serving, to the detriment of the larger population. A true leader would recognize that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and act in the service of the country rather than to usurp all power in it.

[Soontorn]

No Phuket airport blockade, says PAD; tourism suffers as tourists cancel trips

PHUKET, Sept 2 (TNA) - Supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) in Thailand's southern resort island of Phuket vowed to continue their protests despite the announcement of a state of emergency, but would not block the island's international airport.

Natcharong Eakpeumsap, head of the PAD support group in Phuket, said the anti-government protest supporters on the island would not block the airport as airline service was the only and the fastest mean of transportation which could take them to join the PAD protests at the Government House compound and at Makkawan Rangsan Bridge in Bangkok.

The Phuket PAD leader said the airport blockade would have a greater impact on international tourists rather than local travelers. The PAD would instead demonstrate at the city's Sapanhin Park.

Meanwhile, Apichart Sangaree, president of the Association of Thai Travel Agents or ATTA, said the political turmoil had threatens to damage the country's tourism industry.

The ATTA president admitted the current situation had impacts on travel agents as September was the high season of Australian and Asian travelers.

Mr. Apichart also expressed concern that if the turmoil does not end soon, the tourism industry would suffer, as from October onwards is the 'high season' period when a million European travelers usually travel to the kingdom.

The ATTA president added that the association must evaluate the situation daily and hoped the government would not declare a curfew as this would frighten the tourists. (TNA)

[Thai at Heart]

If PPP is so popular, why do they need to buy votes? Anyway they'll soon have the opportunity to buy some more now that the EC has recommended PPP be dissolved.

This is scary, scary stuff.

Effectively outlawing political parties is about as undemocratic a move as can be done. I would question whether or not this decision or enforcement thereof is by written law, or simply by edict and political will.

If there are problems with the corruption, vote buying, etc., then those problems should be dealt with. But silencing the right of the people to assemble or to vote is not right and will not move the country forward.

Hey I prefer them being disbanded by a court, on the basis of evidence of wrongdoing, than because an embittered businessman rounds up 50,000 people, sits in the government building with a microphone and demands that he be allowed to overthrow it.

I don't like PPP anymore than I like herpes, but the only hope that this country goes forward in any way is through elections, courts and laws. The PAD wants to drag this country back into the feudal age. This country needs more transparent democracy not less.

Ooooh, the mystic east and the poor's inability to understand democracy. Piffle. They understand very well that it gives them a voice, which until the last 7 or 8 years had never been listened to.

There will be another election, and PPP incarnate will probably win a lot of votes. That is the way it goes. If Abhisit could learn that there is life beyond Rangsit in Thailand, the Dems may even get a few votes in the North and North East also.

Let us not forget, the courts have just sentenced the previous PM's wife to 3 years in prison. Absolutely un-heard of in the history of Thai politics. PPP are accused of breaking the law and several of the other parties (Dem's included) are in this same position also. If anything democracy was developing quite nicely. But obviously not nicely enough for some with something to lose.

[animatic]

i realise that as a farang it's a difficult place to comment from, but it does seem uniquely strange that people will support a proposed regime which advocates taking votes away from poor and lesser educated people while claiming to do it under a banner of pro-democracy.

Herein lies the old problem of unequal development, poor education, and massive income disparity. Until this is addressed by someone with some real political will, or massive upheaval from within, this scenario will play out again and again. Rinse, repeat.

There is no will for that, at least at some level. Unequal development, poor education, and massive income disparity is what able a few minority to take advantage of the disadvantaged majority. And then some people come with this stupid concept of democracy. Best remark ever read on TV “…and theses uneducated people vote according to their own interest…” My good lord, how can one be so selfish !

"Someone with some real political will, or massive upheaval from within " ? Thaksin was the answer, he had to go ...

Maybe installing Arlette Laguiller would be an improvement?

[RadioCityMike]

Both sides (PAD and DAAD) need to stand down NOW, obey the rules of the state of emergency and solve their differences peacefully through the ballot box.

~WISteve

The government do not want another election. They have not yet recouped the hundreds of millions they forked out to Isaan villagers for their votes, and if a fresh election is called, with no money the people might just vote for some decent people for a change.

This would be a great opportunity for PAD to withdraw their support for a 30% democracy and insist on a true pure 100% democratic election. With the PPP out of money, they could not possibly win. Also, the EC is up and running strong. Hurry PAD, don't miss your chance for a clean election. If that is what you really want?

[wxpwzrd]

The government do not want another election. They have not yet recouped the hundreds of millions they forked out to Isaan villagers for their votes, and if a fresh election is called, with no money the people might just vote for some decent people for a change.

[eastwest]

If PPP is so popular, why do they need to buy votes? Anyway they'll soon have the opportunity to buy some more now that the EC has recommended PPP be dissolved.

This is scary, scary stuff.

Effectively outlawing political parties is about as undemocratic a move as can be done. I would question whether or not this decision or enforcement thereof is by written law, or simply by edict and political will.

Well, distressingly, there are provisions in the recently enacted Thai constitution that allow for the dissolution of political parties if any principal of a party, minor or not, is found to be corrupt or involved in malfeasance.

That is the primary reason why Samak and the PPP were considering offering up possible amendments to the Constitution--to lessen the democracy-crushing effect of these stipulations. Virtually no political party in the world, past or present, is without corruption to some degree. Conversely, the talk about possible constitutional changes aroused the ire of PAD and is one the main reasons for the current crisis.

Edited September 2, 2008 by eastwest

[lordofdelusion]

Sad times.

Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?

I'd ask myself if I contributed to the corruption, or ever spoke out against it.

Corruption in government would be a lot less if it isn't endemic all the way up from grassroots. No hope of finding moral people for government as long as corruption is mai-pen-rai'ed in every household and institution in the country.

A country gets the government it deserves. If the whole culture is accepting of corruption at every level, and contributes to it, no good crying when those kids that grew up with it get into power.

Same as America. Only with Thailand, the rest of the world won't have to suffer for the crass stupidity of the electorate.

May as well add my humble opinion. I agree with the above and I'm a Yank. The political process sux. The endless ads of BS and twisted truth that go with each election drives me nuts. And don't forget the electoral college. That cost Gore the presidency in 2000. Not exactly majority rule.

In the Yahoo news blurb this AM, posted here earlier,

The alliance and their sympathizers — monarchists, the military and the urban elite — complain that Western-style democracy with one-man, one-vote gives too much weight to Thailand's rural majority, who protesters say are susceptible to vote buying that breeds corruption. They have proposed a system under which most lawmakers would be appointed rather than elected.

I gotta agree. What's so great about a democracy that buys the uninformed vote to gain power. Ahh well, I'm just a guest here.

[britmaveric]

PPP would still be elected without any handouts - people realize who butters their bread. Just mean another crushing defeat for the dems.

Edited September 2, 2008 by britmaveric

[animatic]

Supreme Commander says Emergency Decree can alleviate political tension

Supreme Commander Gen.Boonsrang Niempradit says the enforcement of Emergency Decree will defuse the political tension to a certain degree. He also improve the political turmoil to a certain point and requests all sides to use their conscience to prevent the situation from escalating.

The supreme commander says Emergency Decree cannot completely end the confrontation between the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD). He says the existing laws can effectively control the situation and there is no need to use a more stringent measure. The supreme commander says further that it is not necessary to use force against the protestors and requests those who claim responsibility on the enforcement of Emergency Decree to negotiate with the protestors.

Gen.Boonsrang also says the clash between PAD and DAAD last night resulting in many injuries and one death is not a mock up. In response to a speculation by PAD Leader Chamlong Srimuang that PAD will stop rallying in two days, he says he is unsure how the situation will turn out until the government and PAD negotiate.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 02 September 2008

Well some wise council and non-divicive words from the Supreme Commander.

This is encouraging. Can cooler heads prevail?

[RadioCityMike]

America, like all democracies, is not perfect, but is without a doubt the best form of government going.

So how do you explain executive order and the presidents power to veto anything he wants?

Going OT, but since you asked ...

System of checks and balances. Congress has the ability to over-ride a presidential veto if there is sufficient majority votes in the house and senate.

As far as executive orders, it is separation of powers. The president is the chief executive of the nation and has certain rights exclusive to that office, just as leaders of other branches have rights exclusive to their offices.

Back OT ...

This is the biggest problem I see with the ongoing disputes in Thailand. There seems to be a constant quest for all encompassing power in the central government. This problem is common to both sides in the current dispute, albeit for starkly different reasons.

IMHO, if various powers were more de-centralized, and systems of checks and balances were in place, then there wouldn't be these constant quests to be at the seat of all this centralized power.

I don't see too many heroes within the leadership of either side. Their motives are selfish and self-serving, to the detriment of the larger population. A true leader would recognize that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and act in the service of the country rather than to usurp all power in it.

What powers would the provinces gain from the central government? It sounds interesting.

[old wanderer]

NBT is anything but neutral. If it is, why has there not been ONE interview from a PAD supporter for over 100 days. Not one. NBT is glaringly biased. As is ASTV. ASTV is privately owned and subscription based, which allows it to be whatever it and its fans want it to be. NBT is paid by the people, it has no right to be taking sides. Which it so obviously is. Last night it had government officials being interviewed urging the red lot to come into Bangkok to support the government. Is this in anyway calming the fires? Just look at ThaiVisa, with its polar opposite views from each member. The passion and the conviction is so strong here, think what it must be like for people who are actually born and bred in this country,[/b] who are on the streets being roused by rhetoric and acts of aggression. If you lot can't see the woods for the trees, try to understand that it would be even harder for those actually participating. There is so much wrong, and there is too much righteousness. That is why I have said from the start that while I do not support PAD, the government must be the bigger man, must be the sensible party and step down. And we can calm the situation and then start rebuilding. This is not giving up, not giving in, it is simply sensible and necessary to stop further bloodshed. But then I suppose you won't agree with me, so we are all back to our righteous indignation. Sad times.

Jiang Mai:

I could not agree more. I and my wife are in the USA...We do have Thai TV....She was at the rally in 92 when so many students were killed and wounded....She hates the corruption in Thailand and especially Thaskin for what he and his government did to "her" Issan.

Tonight she has a bed role on the floor in front of ASTV....she is hanging on exactly everything that is happening to the protesters. She has asked me for over a month for money and a ticket so she can go back and join Sonthi in the protest.

We have been married since 96, and actually I am quite proud of her passion for politics. Here was a typical Issan farm girl, literally no education, that became the #1 woman in her village, runs several farms, and 1 business, and when we visit her "home" people and relatives come from miles around to listen to her advise and judgment.

Yes the emotions and passions do run high with people about this....and while we sit and discuss as the foreigner maybe we should pay a little attention to the words of the Thai national anthem.....it is certainly not a song of peace on tranquility.

[ubonjoe]

Thailand's New (Old) Politics

(source Wall Street Journal)

"Democracy is the worst form of government," Winston Churchill once remarked, "except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." Thai citizens might want to remember that when they listen to the latest ideologue who promises to fix their country's democracy by -- once again -- breaking it.

For much of the last week, Sondhi Limthongkul and his People's Alliance for Democracy followers have occupied Government House, disrupted flights and briefly taken over a state-run television station. Mr. Sondhi claims that the current government, led by Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej, is a proxy for former leader Thaksin Shinawatra; both of whom, he alleges -- and they deny -- are corrupt. If he succeeds in ousting the government, Mr. Sondhi promises to run "a clean and efficient political system."

He may want to review his history. After leading street protests against Mr. Thaksin in 2006, the same Mr. Sondhi and his followers cleared the way for a military coup. The ensuing junta-led government sent the Thai economy into a tailspin by clamping down on foreign investment, restricting capital flows and seizing intellectual property. The junta then forced through a constitution to entrench the military -- and Bangkok elites -- in power.

Mr. Sondhi isn't much of a democrat himself. Back in July, he outlined his vision for a "new politics," under which only 30% of members of parliament should be elected. The rest, he argued, should be appointed by various professional classes, while the military's role should be expanded. The bulk of Thailand's voters -- rural, and poor -- would be disenfranchised.

The real problem with Thai politics, from Mr. Sondhi's and the PAD's perspective, is the voters' irritating habit of electing Mr. Thaksin and his followers. After a year-and-a-half of military governance, Thai voters overwhelmingly plumped for Mr. Samak's PPP in December, giving them over half the seats in the parliamentary lower house. That's not a bad showing in what was seen to be a largely free and fair election.

Prime Minister Samak has refused to bow to Mr. Sondhi's raucous demand that he step down, and rightly so -- he has an electoral mandate, after all. But he is quickly getting pushed into a political corner. On Friday, when he ordered police to evict protestors from Government House, pursuant to a court order, the protestors fought back. The ensuing melee evoked memories of 1976, when Mr. Samak -- who was deputy interior minister at the time -- talked up anticommunist rhetoric at a time when leftist students were protesting in Bangkok. The military later brutally cracked down on the protestors, killing and wounding hundreds. Mr. Samak denied that he helped spark the riots.

The stalemate has left a big opening for the opposition Democrat Party to exploit. On Sunday, during an emergency session of parliament, opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva asked Mr. Samak to resign and hold elections. If the opposition were serious about protecting democracy, they would get behind the government and call on the protestors to go home. A party spokesman yesterday said that so long as they respect the rule of law, the party supports all Thais' right to free speech and assembly.

By egging on the protestors, however, the Democrats, like the PAD, are playing a dangerous game. If the Samak government is overthrown, there's no telling what might follow it. The best way to "fix" democracy isn't to junk it, but to let it mature through peaceful transfers of power.

Nice post. It clearly explains the position of many of us that think PAD is harmful to the country.

I concur

[quiksilva]

Supreme Commander says Emergency Decree can alleviate political tension

Supreme Commander Gen.Boonsrang Niempradit says the enforcement of Emergency Decree will defuse the political tension to a certain degree. He also improve the political turmoil to a certain point and requests all sides to use their conscience to prevent the situation from escalating.

The supreme commander says Emergency Decree cannot completely end the confrontation between the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD). He says the existing laws can effectively control the situation and there is no need to use a more stringent measure. The supreme commander says further that it is not necessary to use force against the protestors and requests those who claim responsibility on the enforcement of Emergency Decree to negotiate with the protestors.

Gen.Boonsrang also says the clash between PAD and DAAD last night resulting in many injuries and one death is not a mock up. In response to a speculation by PAD Leader Chamlong Srimuang that PAD will stop rallying in two days, he says he is unsure how the situation will turn out until the government and PAD negotiate.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 02 September 2008

Well some wise council and non-divicive words from the Supreme Commander.

This is encouraging. Can cooler heads prevail?

We can but hope

[Soontorn]

Hotels, operators begin to see booking cancellations

(Bangkok Post, CHATRUDEE THEPARAT & SOMPORN THAPANACHAI)

Thailand's tourism industry is starting to feel the pinch of political unrest, as tourists from South Korea, Australia, Japan, Canada and the United Kingdom are expected to turn to Bali, Vietnam and the Maldives. At least five nations have issued warnings about travelling to Thailand following protests in Bangkok and the forced closures of airports in Phuket, Krabi and Hat Yai last week, according to the Tourism Crisis Management Centre, which comprises representatives from the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) and private organisations.

Apichart Sankary, the president of the Association of Thai Travel Agents, yesterday repeated his call for the government and the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to settle their differences as soon as possible before the one-trillion-baht tourism industry is damaged further. ''I want to send this message to the PAD protesters, especially those in southern provinces, that closing airports will affect not only businesses in the provinces but also others, as the industry involves many sectors including the agricultural and food sectors,'' he said.

According to Mr Apichart, the protests have already scared away Asians who are more sensitive than Westerners about security issues. They could hurt the European market as well if the protests continue to the middle of this month. He said the Thai tourism industry was likely to lose revenue during the five-month high season (October to February) if the protests were prolonged. Normally, the country receives 1.5 million to two million visitors a month during the high season, generating income of more than 100 billion baht.

Prakit Shinamornpong, the president of the Thai Hotels Association, said he was particularly concerned about the impact on senior citizens from the United Kingdom. Maiyarat Pheerayakoses, president of the Association of Domestic Travel (ADT), added the closures of airports and railways were unjustified and would damage the country's image. Larry Cunningham, the developer of Chava Resort on Surin Beach, said the airport closures had already hurt the tourism industry on Phuket. His recently opened hotel, which was gearing up for its first high season, has already received cancellations for some of its 45 high-end apartments.

Chava Resort had invested in promotion and staff training during the low season and now the employees cannot expect much from service charges. ''They are very sad. In the end, the biggest loser is Thailand as other surrounding countries like Malaysia and Cambodia have strengthened their tourism industries,'' Mr Cunningham said.

The operators of other five-star hotels also told him about their booking cancellations. ''If there is another airport closure, you can forget about tourism for the next 12 months. When we were hit by natural disasters, tourists said they would come back again to help Phuket people. But with this man-made disaster, they will not return,'' he said.

[lunchbox]

As for the SOE, it doesn't seem that life is going on as usual because I'm still at home and it's 1pm...schools are closed. As I've read, 436+ schools are closed for 3 days? Is that normal? (Please, no jokes about how it is normal because no learning happens in them anyways!)

[PompeyMatt]

Hi,

I wasnt here when the last coup occured. Can any one tell me how much this will affect life around BKK in the next couple of days ? Are there places that should be avoided ? Should we stay in our homes ? Will everything be shut tomorrow ? SHOULD I BE PANIC BUYING NOW ?

Cheers,

[hammered]

As for the SOE, it doesn't seem that life is going on as usual because I'm still at home and it's 1pm...schools are closed. As I've read, 436+ schools are closed for 3 days? Is that normal? (Please, no jokes about how it is normal because no learning happens in them anyways!)

Keeping children of the streets right now is probabaly an excelllent idea

[Soontorn]

POLITICAL SHOWDOWN

Business leaders call for restraint

Economy now held hostage by standoff

DARANA CHUDASRI, Bangkok Post

Business leaders pleaded for calm again yesterday to avoid the economy being rocked by strikes and polarisation resulting from the political standoff between the Samak Sundaravej government and protesters under the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Reports yesterday that state enterprise union leaders have called for a nationwide strike tomorrow to force Mr Samak from office are also expected to increase pressure on the government to seek alternative approaches to handling the crisis.

The labour action comes after PAD members blocked roads across the country and closed airports in Phuket, Krabi and Hat Yai over the weekend, stranding thousands of travellers.

Prominent business figures, meanwhile, appealed for calm on both sides.

''Please do not risk the country's economic future,'' said Apisak Tantivorawong, president of the Thai Bankers Association.

Mr Apisak, also the president of state-owned Krung Thai Bank, said the increasingly acrimonious standoff between the PAD and the government risked completely undermining the country's economy.

The leaders of the Joint Standing Committee on Commerce, Industry and Banking issued a three-point statement yesterday urging both sides to resolve the conflict peacefully. They acknowledged the constitutional right for people to assemble peacefully and called for a rapid resolution to the standoff.

''However it ends is a political issue. We need a political decision. It's not for [business] to decide. But the private sector stands by these three points,'' Mr Apisak said.

He said the protracted standoff, now entering its fourth month of protests, had already taken a toll on investor confidence and economic growth.

''We have some clients telling us that under the current situation, they will slow down their investment decisions,'' Mr Apisak said.

Santi Vilassakdanont, chairman of the Federation of Thai Industries, agreed. He said foreign investors were increasingly concerned about how and when the conflict would end. ''The closures of the airports in particular will have an impact, as tourism enters the year-end high season,'' he said.

Pongsak Assakul, vice-chairman of the Thai Chamber of Commerce, said that even exporters, who are enjoying record performance this year, were increasingly being asked by trading partners about the local political situation.

''Will we be able to make our shipments? Will our workers join in the unrest? The assumption has always been that Thailand is a peaceful nation. So why are these problems occurring?'' he said. ''We get these questions and try to explain. But we can't answer when things will be resolved.''

Moody's Investors Service yesterday noted that the political standoff threatened not only the current government, but Thailand's long-term economic stability.

The ratings agency affirmed Thailand's investment-grade rating of Baa1 but said political risk and mixed economic performance were ''clouding the economic horizon, making a restoration of investor confidence even doubtful in the near future''. ''If counter-demonstrations by the ruling-party friendly Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship match the intensity and disruptiveness of the PAD, then a polarisation could intensify to the point where political stability is jeopardised, so raising the spectre of intervention again by the army,'' said Thomas Byrne, a Moody's senior vice-president.

[WISteve]

Both sides (PAD and DAAD) need to stand down NOW, obey the rules of the state of emergency and solve their differences peacefully through the ballot box.

~WISteve

The government do not want another election. They have not yet recouped the hundreds of millions they forked out to Isaan villagers for their votes, and if a fresh election is called, with no money the people might just vote for some decent people for a change.

This would be a great opportunity for PAD to withdraw their support for a 30% democracy and insist on a true pure 100% democratic election. With the PPP out of money, they could not possibly win. Also, the EC is up and running strong. Hurry PAD, don't miss your chance for a clean election. If that is what you really want?

TRT/PPP will still bring in a strong minority, large enough to form another coalition government.

The royalists/Bangkok middle class with their political arm PAD have already announced their goal: take the one man one vote representative government away from the NE masses and allow them to appoint 70% of the legislative body.

Until they are ready to quit stoking violence in the streets they (PAD and their financiers) will never gain broad acceptance by the people.

They say right now that they only want Samat out. But when they lose again, they will be right back at it I'm afraid.

~WISteve

[RadioCityMike]

NBT is anything but neutral. If it is, why has there not been ONE interview from a PAD supporter for over 100 days. Not one. NBT is glaringly biased. As is ASTV. ASTV is privately owned and subscription based, which allows it to be whatever it and its fans want it to be. NBT is paid by the people, it has no right to be taking sides. Which it so obviously is. Last night it had government officials being interviewed urging the red lot to come into Bangkok to support the government. Is this in anyway calming the fires? Just look at ThaiVisa, with its polar opposite views from each member. The passion and the conviction is so strong here, think what it must be like for people who are actually born and bred in this country,[/b] who are on the streets being roused by rhetoric and acts of aggression. If you lot can't see the woods for the trees, try to understand that it would be even harder for those actually participating. There is so much wrong, and there is too much righteousness. That is why I have said from the start that while I do not support PAD, the government must be the bigger man, must be the sensible party and step down. And we can calm the situation and then start rebuilding. This is not giving up, not giving in, it is simply sensible and necessary to stop further bloodshed. But then I suppose you won't agree with me, so we are all back to our righteous indignation. Sad times.

Jiang Mai:

I could not agree more. I and my wife are in the USA...We do have Thai TV....She was at the rally in 92 when so many students were killed and wounded....She hates the corruption in Thailand and especially Thaskin for what he and his government did to "her" Issan.

Tonight she has a bed role on the floor in front of ASTV....she is hanging on exactly everything that is happening to the protesters. She has asked me for over a month for money and a ticket so she can go back and join Sonthi in the protest.

We have been married since 96, and actually I am quite proud of her passion for politics. Here was a typical Issan farm girl, literally no education, that became the #1 woman in her village, runs several farms, and 1 business, and when we visit her "home" people and relatives come from miles around to listen to her advise and judgment.

Yes the emotions and passions do run high with people about this....and while we sit and discuss as the foreigner maybe we should pay a little attention to the words of the Thai national anthem.....it is certainly not a song of peace on tranquility.

I think you are the perfect person to ask this of. And I ask in all sincerity because I am trying to understand. Does she not know about the PAD proposal to limit democratically elected officals to be only 30% of the government? Does she know and not care? The popular belief is that PAD proposes this to keep Isan from electing corrupt candidates because they are not smart enough to know better. In 1992 what was she protesting for?

[Soontorn]

Thailand's Baht, Stocks Slump as Samak Declares Emergency

Sept. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Thailand's baht fell to the lowest level in more than a year and stocks dropped to a 19-month low after Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej declared a state of emergency. Investors sought the safety of government bonds.

The currency extended last month's 2.1 percent decline after clashes in Bangkok between thousands of pro- and anti-government protesters left one dead and 43 injured. The People's Alliance for Democracy, a group seeking Samak's resignation, has occupied Government House, where the prime minister's office is located, since Aug. 26.

``This is not helping the Thai baht,'' said Thomas Harr, a senior currency strategist at Standard Chartered Plc in Singapore. ``We are short the Thai baht. We expect the central bank to limit the volatility today in this type of event. Dissolution of the Thai parliament is the most likely scenario.''

The benchmark SET Index fell 1.8 percent to 662.77 as of 11:28 a.m. local time, headed for its lowest close since Feb. 1, 2007. The baht fell 0.4 percent to 34.45 against the dollar in Bangkok, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

[lupin]

TV footage here:

Thai protests turn deadly

Monday 01 September 2008

At least one person died and dozens were injured when opposition demonstrations turned into violent clashes with government supporters in Bangkok. A Thai military commander said 400 troops would be rushed in to help restore order.

BANGKOK - One person is reported dead and at least 35 were hurt in clashes on Tuesday between supporters of Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej and anti-government protesters in Bangkok, a Health Ministry official said.

The official could not confirm television reports that one person had been killed in the skirmishes near Government House, occupied since last week by protesters demanding Samak's resignation.

The pro-government crowd broke through several lines of riot police to confront members of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) near the prime minister's official compound.

The two sides threw stones and wooden planks at one another before additional riot police moved in to separate them.

Live TV coverage showed one man lying on the ground with a small pool of blood next to his head.

Government supporters said shots were fired during the skirmish, but it was not clear by whom. A Reuters reporter at the scene saw two bullet casings lying on the pavement.

About 400 Thai troops were ordered to Bangkok. "Soldiers must leave the barracks to help restore peace," army commander Anupong Paochinda told Thailand's TPBS TV as the four companies of troops armed with shields and batons arrived at the scene.

[Crushdepth]

Effectively outlawing political parties is about as undemocratic a move as can be done. I would question whether or not this decision or enforcement thereof is by written law, or simply by edict and political will.

It's the law: If the executive members of a political party are convicted of electoral fraud their party is dissolved by way of penalty. PPP knew this going into the election, they had been dissolved for cheating in the previous election, and they did it again anyway. The purpose of this law is to encourage free and fair (democratic) elections. Is that undemocratic?

If the courts keep enforcing this law then eventually the message will sink in and Thai political parties will begin to toe the line. That will be a major win for democracy in this country.

[Thai at Heart]

Speaking to the neighbour whom I have known for 10 years, and is a furvent watcher of ASTV and even more furvent anti-PPP/TRT, she had absolutely no idea about this 70:30 proposal and absolutely no idea about Sondhi's previous financial wranglings with Thaksin.

She is a lovely woman, probably the typical PAD supporter, but she has no idea of any possible underhand agendas behind these protests.

[emelie]

He has to play his role in the game like anybody else, and his role is to show that actions like that can't succeed. For the sake of future ( uhhh ... maybe now I sound naiv ) maxi

if you think your sound naive i agree. samak is playing the role of a stringpuppet. the name of the game seems to be puppet theater and his role is correct: peaceful civil disobedience is not tolerated by his puppetmaster in manchester. it has to be broken by all means or turned into disgusting bloody violence. all for the sake of a bailjumping fugitive, not much left over for his people or for the sake of the future, like you try to call these outdated feudalists.

[Trouble]

The alliance and their sympathizers — monarchists, the military and the urban elite — complain that Western-style democracy with one-man, one-vote gives too much weight to Thailand's rural majority, who protesters say are susceptible to vote buying that breeds corruption. They have proposed a system under which most lawmakers would be appointed rather than elected.

RIGHT ON!!! I can't believe how many of the farangs posting on here have so little respect for the brave protesters who are standing up for a fair share of the pie, standing up to these elite few who steal from the common man. Does anybody remember the cival rights movement in America and MLK Jr. ???

Am I missing something here? While certainly the PPP leaves much to be desired, PAD seems to desire a parliment appointed by the "right" people. Who might have a hand in that selection? Didn't it take years for Thailand to get to the point of one man, one vote? Since when is an appointed parliment considered some great form of democracy. Wasn't there corruption for as long as Thailand has been a constitutional monarchy?

The real problem here is that which exists in every country around the world. People all to often vote for the party they think will do the most for their individual needs, not necessarily the best for the common good. If, and I say IF, the old TRT and PPP threw bones to the masses to get votes, that's probably more than they got from the likes of the royalists, Bangkok elites, and the military. I am sure the fact that the masses are starting to show their power is indeed threatening to many. It is like everywhere, people that have want to hold on to what they have and people that don't have it want them to share it. This is no different that the Democrats in the USA claiming that the "rich" need to pay more. They use this over and over to stir the pot and create decension whereas the facts are that the top 1 to 5 % of the income earners pay 95% of all income taxes paid. Yet the Democrats want more trying to win the vote of the poor and blue collar worker. It is all just a game the politicians play. Do politicians anywhere tell the truth?

Certainly Thailand needs better government, must rid itself of corruption, and establish a system whereby people have a chance to get ahead. I would rather see PAD conduct their protests in such a way as to refrain from entering government buildings and occupying them causing damage, refrain from entering airports and damaging property and other acts which cause them to loose credibility. If anyone remembers, Martain Luther King worked for non violent change. PAD should do the same.

To those who support PAD, I surely hope that they have a clear understanding of what PAD has in mind should the current Prime Minister resign. Doing away with one-man, one-vote scares the h_ll out of me. Keeping the pressure on for government reforms is one thing, but the desire for an appointed parliment is taking Thailand back decades in its path to better government. I am no expert in Thai politics and like most here can only observe from the outside, however I am not so sure that the motives of PAD are all that honorable either. It seems like just people struggling for power rather than true reform.

[h90]

Speaking to the neighbour whom I have known for 10 years, and is a furvent watcher of ASTV and even more furvent anti-PPP/TRT, she had absolutely no idea about this 70:30 proposal and absolutely no idea about Sondhi's previous financial wranglings with Thaksin.

She is a lovely woman, probably the typical PAD supporter, but she has no idea of any possible underhand agendas behind these protests.

yes because the 70:30 was a proposal nothing more.....long time forgotten...

[RadioCityMike]

Both sides (PAD and DAAD) need to stand down NOW, obey the rules of the state of emergency and solve their differences peacefully through the ballot box.

~WISteve

The government do not want another election. They have not yet recouped the hundreds of millions they forked out to Isaan villagers for their votes, and if a fresh election is called, with no money the people might just vote for some decent people for a change.

This would be a great opportunity for PAD to withdraw their support for a 30% democracy and insist on a true pure 100% democratic election. With the PPP out of money, they could not possibly win. Also, the EC is up and running strong. Hurry PAD, don't miss your chance for a clean election. If that is what you really want?

TRT/PPP will still bring in a strong minority, large enough to form another coalition government.

The royalists/Bangkok middle class with their political arm PAD have already announced their goal: take the one man one vote representative government away from the NE masses and allow them to appoint 70% of the legislative body.

Until they are ready to quit stoking violence in the streets they (PAD and their financiers) will never gain broad acceptance by the people.

They say right now that they only want Samat out. But when they lose again, they will be right back at it I'm afraid.

~WISteve

But they keep saying that the PPP can only win with corruption and vote buying. I was just trying to call their hand. I agree. The PPP is the most popular party even without vote buying.