My Situation

[Jonny B]

Hi, i will try and keep this as brief as possible, im looking for some advice on the smartest option, preferably the cheapest and easiest options would be best.

ok im 26, living here on a non o visa for the past 3 years, married to a thai woman for the last 2 years. I sent quite a large sum of money here which was just about every cent i had from my home country to build an apartment block on the land we live which we rent out the rooms. Now the land is owned by my wifes father and we now have 2 apartment buildings and a small house on this land which are all in my wifes name. Now, my wife has put in just as much money into this project as i have and we now also have a loan for approx 3 million baht, so my wife and her family are very good people, not poor or greedy and as i mentioned have put in alot of money into this themselves. For tax and simplicity reasons it was just alot easier to have everything in her name.

now my main question is just incase something was to happen, dont like to say it, but my wife was to die or just decided shed had enough of me one day, what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

thanks for reading and any help.

if this is in the wrong section, please move Mods.

thanks again fellow faranga

[mgjackson69]

Short answer...it all belongs to her.

Might you find some relief through the legal system? I suppose it is possible...I would not hold my breath.

[lazeeboy]

its all hers ,you should have got a company ,in the eyes of the law its hers ,and your not paying tax etc,as for her family if anything happened to your wife ,you would have 5 minutes to get out before they took it all over

[qwertz]

I don't know why you didn't ask this question of a forum before you invested so much.

The only security you may have if things go pear shaped would be to borrow on the paid up assets and

skip but if nothing is in your name this option wouldn't be so easy either.

[Scott]

Best start squirreling some money away for yourself. It all belongs to her, and always will. Of course the family is nice--they know it's theirs. (Not that they wouldn't be nice even if it wasn't). You had best protect yourself and start as soon as possible. Even if it's only 5,000 or 10,000 baht per month (depending on the finances). Needs to be in your name alone or at least where no one has access or claim to it.

Things can get tricky here. I have a partner and we had a joint bank account--friend didn't even remember it was there. I had been putting a small amount of money in it monthly over the years and it had grown quite a bit. The account was basically like that in case something happened to me, sick, injured, hospitalized etc. At least someone would have access to the money to pay some costs. My friend, however, got into a financial pickle and ended up going to court over a credit card debt and lost. The court judged a payment of a few hundred baht per month. I only knew about it because the new car was transferred into my name and I was told it was so it couldn't get seized. I then mentioned the bank account and quickly took most of the money out (left a few thousand baht in). The bank account is now frozen and I can get 50% of it, but the rest either stays or goes to the finance company. This is no loss, of course, but it was a lesson well learned.

By protecting yourself, remember you are also protecting your wife and any future children. You need to have a more secure level of control over your life.

Best of luck to you.

[Edonista]

Are you another troll for forum amusement ? How could you put all your money into a project in someone else name ?

Anyway, are the buildings generating any cash flow ? I mean enough to pay the mortgage and a couple of mama noodles for you and your wife ?

[haybilly]

Hi, i will try and keep this as brief as possible, im looking for some advice on the smartest option, preferably the cheapest and easiest options would be best.

ok im 26, living here on a non o visa for the past 3 years, married to a thai woman for the last 2 years. I sent quite a large sum of money here which was just about every cent i had from my home country to build an apartment block on the land we live which we rent out the rooms. Now the land is owned by my wifes father and we now have 2 apartment buildings and a small house on this land which are all in my wifes name. Now, my wife has put in just as much money into this project as i have and we now also have a loan for approx 3 million baht, so my wife and her family are very good people, not poor or greedy and as i mentioned have put in alot of money into this themselves. For tax and simplicity reasons it was just alot easier to have everything in her name.

now my main question is just incase something was to happen, dont like to say it, but my wife was to die or just decided shed had enough of me one day, what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

thanks for reading and any help.

if this is in the wrong section, please move Mods.

thanks again fellow faranga

I am no expert, but neither is anyone else who's answered you--I don't want to disagree with the other posters--it is a problem, and in hindsight you didn't do things in the right way, but why hasn't anyone suggested that you set up a contract with a good, probably farang/Thai law firm, and ask your wife to sign saying that you are entitiled to your stake should the assets be put up for sale--I doubt you'd get your cash if they don't intend to sell though--also, whether a Thai wife would sign after the event is doubtful.

ontact a good lawyer--not us lot.

I wish you all the best--just for other folks 'thinking' of doing something like you have--pleeaase remember the golden rule--don't bring anything [cash, assets, etc..] into Thailand that you really think that you can't one day afford to kiss goodbye--please.

[mrt273nva]

you will not come out of this situation ahead, unless... you convince her and her family that now is a good time to sell and keep everything very peaceful in the mean time so they don't drop you and split town with all your cash. Perhaps look around for another investment opportunity (one that won't really happen) so that the reason to sell is for more financial gain (Thai's adore money). When the money is finally out and you take your share of it back, then you have a few options. Do you stay or do you go. Finesse this one and play it smart or you will never see that money again.

[Jonny B]

Edonista, no i am not a troll whatever that is and please dont presume i am that dumb to put all my money itno a project that wouldnt be generating a good cash flow with someone i can trust. were not all married to poor isaan bar girls here.

[Jonny B]

Hi, i will try and keep this as brief as possible, im looking for some advice on the smartest option, preferably the cheapest and easiest options would be best.

ok im 26, living here on a non o visa for the past 3 years, married to a thai woman for the last 2 years. I sent quite a large sum of money here which was just about every cent i had from my home country to build an apartment block on the land we live which we rent out the rooms. Now the land is owned by my wifes father and we now have 2 apartment buildings and a small house on this land which are all in my wifes name. Now, my wife has put in just as much money into this project as i have and we now also have a loan for approx 3 million baht, so my wife and her family are very good people, not poor or greedy and as i mentioned have put in alot of money into this themselves. For tax and simplicity reasons it was just alot easier to have everything in her name.

now my main question is just incase something was to happen, dont like to say it, but my wife was to die or just decided shed had enough of me one day, what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

thanks for reading and any help.

if this is in the wrong section, please move Mods.

thanks again fellow faranga

I am no expert, but neither is anyone else who's answered you--I don't want to disagree with the other posters--it is a problem, and in hindsight you didn't do things in the right way, but why hasn't anyone suggested that you set up a contract with a good, probably farang/Thai law firm, and ask your wife to sign saying that you are entitiled to your stake should the assets be put up for sale--I doubt you'd get your cash if they don't intend to sell though--also, whether a Thai wife would sign after the event is doubtful.

ontact a good lawyer--not us lot.

I wish you all the best--just for other folks 'thinking' of doing something like you have--pleeaase remember the golden rule--don't bring anything [cash, assets, etc..] into Thailand that you really think that you can't one day afford to kiss goodbye--please.

yes this is what i was originally thinking, if there is anybody here who has written some sort of contract like this before i would love to hear from you. I think most people here are presuming i am having problems, i am not, everything is fine on the home front, the wife is more than happy to do whatever she can to help protect me and when her and her family have more money in this project than myself i dont see why they would be in such a hurry to take what i invested. i just want some security for peace of mind. yes saving money is good but i will not reach the amount i invested that way, we do plan to do some sort of town house project and sell them off which should return my part of the investment but that may not take place for a couple more years, so some sort of contract would be better for the mean time, if thats possible.

[meom]

I guess sudden death of your wife can be covered by a will in which she leaves everything to you that can legally be left to you. Check with a lawyer.

Btw if you would walk out tomorrow who would be responsible for the 3 million that you& wife have borrowed?

[mrt273nva]

Edonista, no i am not a troll whatever that is and please dont presume i am that dumb to put all my money itno a project that wouldnt be generating a good cash flow with someone i can trust. were not all married to poor isaan bar girls here.

Trust is an easy thing to lose. In this case, if you lose that then you lose all your money. Remember where you are. The Thai's are very good at survival. I have been married to a Thai girl now for 2.5 years and I'm not sure if I can trust her. My company is entirely in my name (Amity Treaty), and I never would have invested in Thailand had in not been the case. How long have you known this girl and her family?

[Jonny B]

I guess sudden death of your wife can be covered by a will in which she leaves everything to you that can legally be left to you. Check with a lawyer.

Btw if you would walk out tomorrow who would be responsible for the 3 million that you& wife have borrowed?

yeah i thought a will might be the way to go in the event of death. the loan is in my wifes name and insured in case of death.

[qwertz]

The question, JB, is not if you can trust your wife but whether you can trust her family because if

they're typical they will always have more influence on her than you will.

I suppose you know enough already about Thailand so if there's one smidget of doubt in your mind,

ignore the inevitable unhelpful comments, just read the good advice and start taking steps to recoup

some of your investment.

[soundman]

If the marriage (legal?) is anulled, say by a death or mutual concent, whatever assets you have accumulated after the marriage, apart from land given as a gift by the family, will theoretically be divided 50/50, irrespective of who has paid for what, if there isnt any sort of formal agreement. If you have bought her land after the (legal?) marriage, and it is in her name, unless you can prove that you paid 100% for it and have a written agreement, it will be divided 50/50.

Don't listen to those brilliant analysts who say "it is all hers" & "you'r not Thai, you'll get nothing". Complete load of BS.

All that said, it might be a good idea to get something written down on paper in-case a "divorce scenario" turns messy where one party starts telling tall tales and certain documents start "magically appearing" saying the other party has no finacial interest whatsover.

& if things are not looking good, retain a decent lawyer quickly.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Jonny B]

The question, JB, is not if you can trust your wife but whether you can trust her family because if

they're typical they will always have more influence on her than you will.

I suppose you know enough already about Thailand so if there's one smidget of doubt in your mind,

ignore the inevitable unhelpful comments, just read the good advice and start taking steps to recoup

some of your investment.

thanks mate

[THAIPHUKET]

I am very pleased to see that at least one person on this board believes enough in himself to trust his own instincts = JonnyB !! And he is not afraid !!!

I wonder why most of you feel that each and everyone Thai is fundamentally not trustworthy.

[Jonny B]

If the marriage (legal?) is anulled, say by a death or mutual concent, whatever assets you have accumulated after the marriage, apart from land given as a gift by the family, will theoretically be divided 50/50, irrespective of who has paid for what, if there isnt any sort of formal agreement. If you have bought her land after the (legal?) marriage, and it is in her name, unless you can prove that you paid 100% for it and have a written agreement, it will be divided 50/50.

Don't listen to those brilliant analysts who say "it is all hers" & "you'r not Thai, you'll get nothing". Complete load of BS.

All that said, it might be a good idea to get something written down on paper in-case a "divorce scenario" turns messy where one party starts telling tall tales and certain documents start "magically appearing" saying the other party has no finacial interest whatsover.

& if things are not looking good, retain a decent lawyer quickly.

Cheers,

Soundman.

thanks for sounds advice mate

[Smithson]

If you are legally married then everything bought during that time is split 50/50. I remember reading about a guy in Phuket who forced a sale through the courts when he split with his wife. It took a lot of effort, but he finally won.

Is everything in her name even though the parents also contributed?

[Smithson]

Soundman has already summed it up, exactly what I was thinking.

[meom]

I guess sudden death of your wife can be covered by a will in which she leaves everything to you that can legally be left to you. Check with a lawyer.

Btw if you would walk out tomorrow who would be responsible for the 3 million that you& wife have borrowed?

yeah i thought a will might be the way to go in the event of death. the loan is in my wifes name and insured in case of death.

I’m thinking out loud now and I guess you and your wife can form some sort of a company that owns and rents out the buildings on the land. The loan taken out by your wife could also be transferred to this company and maybe something can be done with the land depending what your father in law wants to do with it should he die.

Sunbelt might be able to give you some good advice.

[mrt273nva]

I am very pleased to see that at least one person on this board believes enough in himself to trust his own instincts = JonnyB !! And he is not afraid !!!

I wonder why most of you feel that each and everyone Thai is fundamentally not trustworthy.

Not that we think that every Thai is out to get you, however the culture gap makes for some very awkward times, and doubt in someone can be a big part when there is your entire life savings involved. I would have the same caution with anyone from anywhere in the world if they were going to take my money and buy a property and put it in their name and all you have is trust that they won't just push you aside. Those are the instincts that I trust.

[Soutpeel]

Dont take any big life insurance policies out on yourself and if living in a condo move to a lower floor...

[WorldwideALOHA]

Everything is split 50/50

Meaning, if things go bad, and the family turns... I'd get a cat.

Have the cat taste all of your food...

[qwertz]

I am very pleased to see that at least one person on this board believes enough in himself to trust his own instincts = JonnyB !! And he is not afraid !!!

I wonder why most of you feel that each and everyone Thai is fundamentally not trustworthy.

Not that we think that every Thai is out to get you, however the culture gap makes for some very awkward times, and doubt in someone can be a big part when there is your entire life savings involved. I would have the same caution with anyone from anywhere in the world if they were going to take my money and buy a property and put it in their name and all you have is trust that they won't just push you aside. Those are the instincts that I trust.

Correct. We're talking about business and serious money here and the OP obviously knows that trusting

business partners is a risky business as he's asking "what if?"

In all fairness to Thai honesty, many a farang has been burned by his Thai partners; this is no reflection

on the honesty of the whole Thai nation but a sad comment on the business world today.

[GuestHouse]

You can't undo the past but you can do something about the future.

I would therefore suggest that you don't raise problems with the situation you have at the moment - by all means discuss your concern that you hvae no security with your wife, she might then agree to a will in your favour - But be careful, don't make this a blood and water issue - keep it to your concerns over legal title, and don't get into 'Trust issues'.

The object of this converstation should not be to recover control of what you have invested (though that would be a desirable outcome) rather you need to set the ground for the future such that any and all future investments are made with you sharing security. You mention future plans for a Town-House developement, this needs to be set up such that you share an equitible part of the security - Non of this all in your wife's family's name nonsense.

An example might be, if the property you have paid a share for is used as collateral for the new developement then you need to have security in that development in proportion to your part of the collateral.

Another issue is of course income from the current investment - If you are not receiving income in proportion to your investment then I think you need to sort that out right now.

You are 23 - You've invested more money than you think you can afford to loose - Get these issues sorted early and don't waste the best years of your life waiting to find out that at some later date that you have been had - Sort the income now - and don't make any further investment without a fair share of the security.

[denboy]

Hi, i will try and keep this as brief as possible, im looking for some advice on the smartest option, preferably the cheapest and easiest options would be best.

ok im 26, living here on a non o visa for the past 3 years, married to a thai woman for the last 2 years. I sent quite a large sum of money here which was just about every cent i had from my home country to build an apartment block on the land we live which we rent out the rooms. Now the land is owned by my wifes father and we now have 2 apartment buildings and a small house on this land which are all in my wifes name. Now, my wife has put in just as much money into this project as i have and we now also have a loan for approx 3 million baht, so my wife and her family are very good people, not poor or greedy and as i mentioned have put in alot of money into this themselves. For tax and simplicity reasons it was just alot easier to have everything in her name.

now my main question is just incase something was to happen, dont like to say it, but my wife was to die or just decided shed had enough of me one day, what would be my options? what should i do now to guarantee i could easily regain the money i put in and also does being married automatically give me 50% of what we own here?

thanks for reading and any help.

if this is in the wrong section, please move Mods.

thanks again fellow faranga

I have a Thai girlfreind for the latter 14 years, our situation is similar with the exceprions,we are not married simply to protect my UK assests, secondly I am much older and expect to end my days here.

My girlfreind who incidently is an Isaan lady agreed that I should be protected in case of her demise. We consulted A good Thai layer and we now have documents both in English and Thai to protect me.

The gist of the messgae is: if your wife loves and trusts you she will readily agree to do a similar document.

You state that they are a good family so it would be intersting to read what happens if you make that approach to your wife.

Please post on how you resolve your anxiety.

Cheers

[Gravelrash]

Edonista, no i am not a troll whatever that is and please dont presume i am that dumb to put all my money itno a project that wouldnt be generating a good cash flow with someone i can trust. were not all married to poor isaan bar girls here.

Good point Jonny B, it is true that the only foreigners that ever lose money are those with Issan bar girls. A vile despicable species that bring nothing but shame to the otherwise impecably honest Thai womanhood. Those married to white skinned multiple PHD Thai virgins, like 99% of TV posters, never have any problems whatsoever.

So why are you getting nervous then...hmmm? Surely it is only middle aged losers with Issan tramps that should worry, not young guys like you?

By the way it was not suggested you were dumb because the business was a bad idea, I think they were simply suggesting that you put all your money into a business that you can never own, inherit and will lose at your wifes whim. Personally seems like good business acumen to me, no doubt the wifes family agree.

[Maigo6]

You can't undo the past but you can do something about the future.

I would therefore suggest that you don't raise problems with the situation you have at the moment - by all means discuss your concern that you hvae no security with your wife, she might then agree to a will in your favour - But be careful, don't make this a blood and water issue - keep it to your concerns over legal title, and don't get into 'Trust issues'.

The object of this converstation should not be to recover control of what you have invested (though that would be a desirable outcome) rather you need to set the ground for the future such that any and all future investments are made with you sharing security. You mention future plans for a Town-House developement, this needs to be set up such that you share an equitible part of the security - Non of this all in your wife's family's name nonsense.

An example might be, if the property you have paid a share for is used as collateral for the new developement then you need to have security in that development in proportion to your part of the collateral.

Another issue is of course income from the current investment - If you are not receiving income in proportion to your investment then I think you need to sort that out right now.

You are 23 - You've invested more money than you think you can afford to loose - Get these issues sorted early and don't waste the best years of your life waiting to find out that at some later date that you have been had - Sort the income now - and don't make any further investment without a fair share of the security.

Very good advice from GuestHouse.

[chiangmaibruce]

Not much I can add other to sum up some of the good points made by others:

1. You need to get your wife to make a Will - she should not object to this. Without a Will you will still get a percentage of the assets, but this may not be adequate to cover your investment. Get the facts and discuss it with your wife and get something drafted. google on "preparing Thai Will" and search this forum and you will find the formula (for asset distribution) as set out in the Thai Commercial and Civil Code (clause 1629). Plus a Will may lessen the chance you have to go head to head with her family later

2. did you invest the money before or after you married?? this would have a bearing on what you might get in a divorce. again, get your head in the Thai Civil and Commercial Code (clauses 1473 – 1481 & 1490

3. can you prove you brought the money into the country and that you put it into the investment? copies of transfers? receipts? for everything??

4. yes, you need to handle this VERY sensitively to avoid starting a fire where there was none. talk about certainty, clarity etc etc anything but not trusting her or her family. i would see a lawyer on the quiet. to a Thai, going to see a lawyer is a big deal, and it will make waves.

And yes you need to get this sorted asap