Mr. Somjet - Phuket Visa & Accounting

[karlski]

Hi,

I am a US citizen, 38 years old, here on a 90 day Visa that yielded a 60 day stamp on my entry August 7th, due to expire on October 5, 2008. This visa was obtained in advance using a typical expediter service as I wanted to refrain from getting an "on arrival" stamp.

1. Short term:

Can I extend the 60 day stamp at the Phuket Immigration office for 30 days? or 10 days? I've heard different answers on this.

-And once that expires, do I revert to Ranong visa runs to stay in country till I sort out the below long term goals? If so, how many of those can I make before exhausting the "Ranong" option.

2. Long term: Somjet or ?

I've been advised by friends who own a dive business that due to the shortage of work permits in their shop, they can only kindly offer to "help me get the process started" via "invitation letter" I can use to apply for a non-immigrant B visa in Kuala or Penang. Beyond that though, they referred me to a certain Mr. Somjet to pursue my goal of establishing a more long term presence through a variety of mechanisms.

Being in the immigration business back home, I sense a level of initial apprehension and I have to ask. -Is Mr. Somjet's office reputable enough to consider to assist a non-immigrant b visa, then work permit, then 1 year multi-entry visa? I've been told straight up by a few peers this is a BAD option. Yet others have claimed different.

I've seen a few net postings on him that are negative, but sometimes it's not the complete picture.

If indeed these criticisms are valid, are there other visa advisors to consider first, who might be credible, reliable, viable?

I do not have enough cash on hand to start my own company, and my online internet business is actually a great "outside" source of income. So owning a Thai firm just for the sake of long-term presence is not sensible at first glance.

Any advice about Mr. Somjet or any of his peers is most welcome. I appreciate the existence of this forum and made a concerted effort to read through similar postings herein before posting my question.

sincerely,

-k

[astral]

From your description you appear to be on a 60 day tourist visa.

The 90 days was the time you had to use the visa sticker in your passport.

Please check the sticker, does it say single entry or double.

If double, you can leave and return the same day to get a second 60 days.

Others will no doubt comment on the latest "extension" situation in Phuket.

After that, if you use Ranong visa runs to add to your time in Thailand you will be limited

to 3 trips, giving you 90 days, the maximum allowed in 6 months, on the "on arrival" stamp.

I cannot comment in Mr Somjet directly, but in my experience is that these people are not necessary

just for visa applications. The visa procedures are simple and you should be able to do the

leg work yourself.

However if you want to start a company you will need the services of a reliable lawyer.

Given your age you will need a real job with a work permit in order to stay in LOS (land of smiles).

Since you seem to have a job and source of income, the other alternative is to get a multi-entry Non Imm O visa.

The UK or Australia are the best places to apply. I am not sure they are available in the US,

and certainly not in the SE Asia region.

This will allow you to stay for about 15 months at a time, with out/in border runs every 3 months.

At the end of the 15 months you will need to travel to UK or Oz to get a new visa.

[karlski]

It's a single entry. Says "employment prohibited".

My job is in the US, not here, albeit via the internet (itself an interesting paradigm in terms of location/income/immigration), so am not "working" here but would like to be, either as a dive instructor (already certified) or in some technology job.

So my question about Mr. Somjet and others was work-permit related, and in follow up, to obtain a 1 year multi-entry visa.

-But, you mention interestingly that being employed though in the US in my internet company, this would allow me to apply for the Non-Imm "O"? wow.

If so I can check with the US, and if not, Oz. But as a non-Oz citizen would it be permitted?

Hopefully I didn't mis-interpret the statement, but it quite fits my setup if indeed I read it correctly. Guess i've got some more homework to do.

And, it would be pretty cool to finally be able to visit Australia anyhow.

-karl

[NHJ]

i dealed with somjet company and one of his assistant, the switzerland consultant, they were very professional.

they are able to get you a freelance workpermit but it's not cheap at all so be sure to know what you wanna do : http://www.visasiam.com/index.php?lay=show...e&Id=470540

[simon43]

So exactly what is this 'freelance' work permit that they offer? From looking at their website details, I can only assume that you are working for their company in some capacity. Or maybe not? It's not clear to me how they are obtaining this WP and the legality of it.

NHJ, you have a freelance WP? Can you please provde some more details of this service which certainly could be of interest to some TV members [including myself].

Simon

[dr_Pat_Pong]

US citizens can apply for Thai visa's in Australia. There are no residential requirements.

[digitalchromakey]

i dealed with somjet company and one of his assistant, the switzerland consultant, they were very professional.

they are able to get you a freelance workpermit but it's not cheap at all so be sure to know what you wanna do : http://www.visasiam.com/index.php?lay=show...e&Id=470540

I definitely would not recommend this company.

I know there are long term clients (individuals and companies) out there who are very happy with this particular organisation; I do however also know several people who are very very unhappy with the level/quality of service they received (lost passports, lost work permits, incorrectly submitted papers, poorly constituted company registrations).

What ever you think about this company, please be a little sceptical if they imply that they are well connected with Phuket Labour or Immigration - they are not. Also be suspicious of their legal/legislative knowledge, or of any 'special techniques' they might use to get around your problems.

[opalhort]

Why not use Sunbelt Asia?

I'm sure they will get for you what you need as long as it is within the law. And at a lower cost for you.

opalhort

[NHJ]

nope i don't have a wp in freelance coming from their service, i used them to register a company.

i guess their system is they have a lot of thai companies and are able to give out a work permit for each of them, the work permit office is certainly paid to close the eyes.

[karlski]

I was quoted this:

1. Documents for Non- Immigrant B visa 3,000 B.

2. Work Permit 20,000 B

3. Monthly payment per month 5,000 B

So now my questions are narrowed down to:

A. For the Australia-based approach of getting a Non-O because I already have a job (my internet business, based in US, albeit the internet is handily borderless) and provable US income. -Does anyone know of the proper channels to pursue it, e.g. the name of the office or company i'd contact in Oz to ask for more details? I'll keep googling, but if anyone knows, pls. advise. Also, have any of you done this format mentioned by astral above? Right now it ranks a bit higher than the "freelance work permit" approach most certainly.

B. For the Non-Immigrant B, it seems like I can do most of the footwork myself right? I have an "invitation letter" from a scuba firm here, -they have mentioned they are not 100% certain of what else i'd need to do this in Penang or Kuala Lumpur. And, it seems like it would only buy me 90 days anyhow, -but with some hard work, I could find another scuba firm willing to give me a work permit slot, maybe. Is the "invitiation letter" all you need? Or is there more? I'll sift through your forum some more, but if you have recently done this, lemme know. I'm all ears.

C. I agree about the cautions on this "freelance" program. It can work, or it can backfire. Mileage may vary. My business back in the US is an online immigration document processing service. All immigration systems are pretty similar. They have a "certifying officer" at immigration office, the top of the food chain, who can introduce "checks and balances" at will, your fate is in their hands, with a swipe of the pen, you can find yourself out of luck, and out of pocket.

Then you have the 'representatives', visa expediters, attorneys and quasi-experts in between, who know how to "game" the system through loopholes and can make some serious money from the people they 'represent'. Some cases go well, others do not. Depends on the cooperation between the certifying officer and the 'representative', and how much money is on the line, and who's watching, or being paid to not watch.

The fun comes when the 'representative' sees your 'case' assigned to a 'certifying officer' who they are not 'in' with. Consider your docs lost, your case doomed, read some Franz Kafka novels for creative examples.

D. Any divers out there who can comment on the general availability of work permits in phuket and how they are obtained? Do shops want you to already have a work permit before they hire you on?

E. I see a lot of teachers here, who appear to have better visa situations, -are these folks basically teaching a foreign language to thais and making a living that way? I have some friends considering thailand and one of them is a Teofl instructor, and perhaps it's time I looked into it as well.

For now, the Australia option seems to make the most sense, -any and all advice about it is very welcome. Thanks for the info thus far. Now off to search your forum some more.

-krb

Edited September 21, 2008 by karlski

[digitalchromakey]

I was quoted this:

1. Documents for Non- Immigrant B visa 3,000 B.

2. Work Permit 20,000 B

3. Monthly payment per month 5,000 B

So now my questions are narrowed down to:

A. For the Australia-based approach of getting a Non-O because I already have a job (my internet business, based in US, albeit the internet is handily borderless) and provable US income. -Does anyone know of the proper channels to pursue it, e.g. the name of the office or company i'd contact in Oz to ask for more details? I'll keep googling, but if anyone knows, pls. advise. Also, have any of you done this format mentioned by astral above? Right now it ranks a bit higher than the "freelance work permit" approach most certainly.

B. For the Non-Immigrant B, it seems like I can do most of the footwork myself right? I have an "invitation letter" from a scuba firm here, -they have mentioned they are not 100% certain of what else i'd need to do this in Penang or Kuala Lumpur. And, it seems like it would only buy me 90 days anyhow, -but with some hard work, I could find another scuba firm willing to give me a work permit slot, maybe. Is the "invitiation letter" all you need? Or is there more? I'll sift through your forum some more, but if you have recently done this, lemme know. I'm all ears.

C. I agree about the cautions on this "freelance" program. It can work, or it can backfire. Mileage may vary. My business back in the US is an online immigration document processing service. All immigration systems are pretty similar. They have a "certifying officer" at immigration office, the top of the food chain, who can introduce "checks and balances" at will, your fate is in their hands, with a swipe of the pen, you can find yourself out of luck, and out of pocket. The particular company in question is not as 'well connected' as you may think they are.

Then you have the 'representatives', visa expediters, attorneys and quasi-experts in between, who know how to "game" the system through loopholes and can make some serious money from the people they 'represent'. Some cases go well, others do not. Depends on the cooperation between the certifying officer and the 'representative', and how much money is on the line, and who's watching, or being paid to not watch.

The fun comes when the 'representative' sees your 'case' assigned to a 'certifying officer' who they are not 'in' with. Consider your docs lost, your case doomed, read some Franz Kafka novels for creative examples.

D. Any divers out there who can comment on the general availability of work permits in phuket and how they are obtained? Do shops want you to already have a work permit before they hire you on?

E. I see a lot of teachers here, who appear to have better visa situations, -are these folks basically teaching a foreign language to thais and making a living that way? I have some friends considering thailand and one of them is a Teofl instructor, and perhaps it's time I looked into it as well.

For now, the Australia option seems to make the most sense, -any and all advice about it is very welcome. Thanks for the info thus far. Now off to search your forum some more.

-krb

A. Perth Consulate has been reported as issuing one year multiple entry non B visas without the 'full required paper work.'

B. For even a 3 month single entry non B in KL or Penang you need to have the recepit for a work permit application (WP3) plus all the required company paperwork.

C. Be very skeptical as regards these 'Freelance Work Permits' they may not be what you think they are.

D. Unless you speak 3/4 languages and/or have very extensive diving experience, you will find it very difficult to persuade a Phuket Dive Company to take you on their books and supply a work permit. Almost all Instructors and Divemasters in Phuket work on a freelance basis and have to set up their own comapnies to get work permits.

E. As I understand it, here in Thailand, you need a university degree to be able get a work permit as a teacher in a school.

[karlski]

wow, thanks digi, this is all great clarification...

D. Unless you speak 3/4 languages and/or have very extensive diving experience, you will find it very difficult to persuade a Phuket Dive Company to take you on their books and supply a work permit.

-agreed, I figured as much last time I was here 2 years ago I saw you'd have to be a tour leader in the boat every day, with thousands of dives, and a mind and heart made of steel to endure the endless hours and work. poor folks never had a minute of spare sleep.

Almost all Instructors and Divemasters in Phuket work on a freelance basis and have to set up their own comapnies to get work permits.

-now this part i'm VERY curious about. I've wanted to do this, but am not clear on the amount of "asset" money you need in the company. The few dive shops I am really in with have all asked me "dude, have you started a company yet?" I try not to bug them too much with the details of my quest for the sake of dignity mostly, but perhaps a few beers are in order. One of them started to spell it out for me, but in came a wave of customers so we had to cut it short. Perhaps it's time to really hang with my kind and follow the lit path.

The actual setup seems straightforward, you get your Thai partner or partners, and then form the company. But how much "asset" or actual cash needs to be in the company bank account?

I've heard people say 30,000 USD - 1 million baht. I've heard more than that.

I am a technologist/linux engineer as well as a scuba instructor, so my firm doesn't have to be scuba if it makes things easier.

At that stage, it's worth me asking who actually is dependable thai representative to assist in the setup, or if 90% can be done on your own.

But perhaps the expense is too steep.

A. Perth Consulate has been reported as issuing one year multiple entry non B visas without the 'full required paper work.'

-ok, I will check in with them! thanks for this. i'll inquire and check cost. perhaps the cost of the RT flight will be more than the visa expenses though. research worthy indeed though.

B. For even a 3 month single entry non B in KL or Penang you need to have the receipt for a work permit application (WP3) plus all the required company paperwork.

-wow, so it's all tied together then. can't do one without the other. so many people have said one leads to the other, that I didn't need the wp app and co paperwork till 3 months later.

C. Be very skeptical as regards these 'Freelance Work Permits' they may not be what you think they are.

-yep, totally. last thing I need is a fiasco, or to be a stat in a phuketgazette article titled 'freelance work permit holders deported en masse'.

[digitalchromakey]

...D. Unless you speak 3/4 languages and/or have very extensive diving experience, you will find it very difficult to persuade a Phuket Dive Company to take you on their books and supply a work permit.

-agreed, I figured as much last time I was here 2 years ago I saw you'd have to be a tour leader in the boat every day, with thousands of dives, and a mind and heart made of steel to endure the endless hours and work. poor folks never had a minute of spare sleep...

D. Did just that for almost seven years, you certainly need a strong constitution and a lot of patience.

Actually it's not as expensive as you say to form a company for the purposes of getting a Work Permit.

You need a capitalisation of 2 million Baht and this can be bought for a few thousand Baht per million. The capitalisation is only a notional figure and can be reflected on your books in terms of asset value/intellectual property, trade marks, etc. You have to pay tax and National Insurance on a minimum income, depending on your nationality. Plus you have annual audit fee to pay as well.

Nowadays, there is also the complication of 4x required Thai Employees required by some labour departments, which you might be able to circumvent with a Thai Limited Partnership.

A respectable firm of lawyers can set things up legally for less than 30,000 THB, then you have Work Permit Fees (3,000 THB per annum), visa/visa run costs (say 6,000 THB for the visa, 10,000 THB for the visa run and 6,000 THB for 3x border runs), not forgetting annual auditing fees of 12,000 THB. Monthly Tax and National Insurance are about 4,000 THB, depending on your nationality.

So you are looking at about 115,000 THB for the first year and about 85,000 THB p.a in the following years.

To work legally in Thailand, as a Freelance Dive Instructor, costs you about 7-10,000 per month, that's before your professional/liability insurance fees.

Enjoy...

Edited September 21, 2008 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text - Maestro

[karlski]

D. Did just that for almost seven years, you certainly need a strong constitution and a lot of patience...

Tour leading for 7 years. man. yeah. that's a lifetime right there.

Well, with the Perth plane ticket RT costing around 30-40,000THB and the associated Visa costs for the 1 year multi-entry based on my self-owned US internet firm, it's cheaper than doing the freelance diving, unless i'd be making more that 7-10,000THB a month at it.

I'd hate to hang up this gear though, but timing is all. I just need to extend, not work, especially if it's low on the profit side as fra as dive instructing goes. But perhaps you can earn as a diver here, that it's profitable, even if the profit is minimal.

I got certified here 2 years ago, then split, so never got a feel for what an Instructor makes out here in a typical month.

The dual-taxation issue is there too, but I think I have an eventual remedy for that.

Nice info though, I caught on to your thread with NightOwn888 and scifi, so following that one too.

-karlski

[digitalchromakey]

I got certified here 2 years ago, then split, so never got a feel for what an Instructor makes out here in a typical month.

-karlski

If you work full-time as a Dive Instructor in Phuket, then your typical income, including tips is :

High Season [25-45 pcm] - (8 months Oct to April, plus August) = 200-360k

Low Season [5-15 pcm] - (4 months May, June, July, Sept) = 20-80k

This makes a grand total of between 220 and 440k per annum.

Subtract your 'overheads' (85k per annum after year one) and you are looking at an income of between 135-355k per annum -

Averaged out over a full year, that's in the region of 11k to 30k per month.

So income is typically somewhere between Bread-line and Comfortable for Phuket.

Hope this helps.

[karlski]

It more than helps Digi, it's truly awesome detail and insight on a Sunday research session that I felt would only yield more questions than answers. Good ol' phpBB.

I feel like I can actually sleep solid tonight after hearing my friends' smaller scale dive shop was having issues getting a work permit sorted for me. (They mention they did things legitimately back when they started their firm, and now seem to have more trouble than those that did things less so.)

The balance of having a Thai company, working the dive industry both as an instructor and technologist, and my income from the US online firm, at this point, simply chalk up now to how I wish to deal with dual-taxation. The US firm should be easy enough to edit the structure to suit, given I have ownership vs. being an employee who might have to contend with an unruly accountant bent on conservative "GAAP" principles.

My online immigration document processing business has helped about 200-250 people so far over the years. Now being in their shoes, I offer you sincere thanks, it's shown there's some humanity in this red tape after all.

-k4rlski