Baby Milk - Changing / Stopping Etc.

[torrenova]

Our daughter is now 15 months and healthy and all seems good but I want to get some ideas and information on her feeding.

When she wakes up she likes a bottle and one when she goes to sleep, about 6oz each time. During the day she will have some more milk but she will also have solid foods which can range from whatever we are eating to specially prepared home cooked stuff, centred around rice and vegetables. She'll eat meat of all varieties as well.

When she was coming up to 1 year old we changed from the Dumex 1st stage to the Dumex 2nd stage powder. She was given this brand in hospital, she has always liked it so we've stuck with it. The thing is that they have stages 3 and 4 and I have no knowledge of a baby's changing feed requirements.

I mean, I've heard about giving them cow's milk - really ? and what about the powder ? finish that ?

What age do kids stop drinking milk ? She does so love her milk at certain times it seems impossible to stop it now, but obviously there has to be a time. I cannot remember when I stopped (too long ago).

Can you perhaps throw up your thoughts and experiences ?

Thanks

[Boo]

Advice in UK from the NHS health professionals is.....Unless they have a dairy allergy then full fat cows milk is fine from 12 months.

Stage 2,3 & 4 & follow on milk formulas are fine but personally I see them as a way to get more money out of us gullible parents so if there is no medical reason then I would go with the cows milk.

My son has a dairy intolerance so is on soya formula & drinks 2 x 8 oz bottles a day, morning & before bed. Imo as long as it isn't interferring with them eating of normal solid food then I see no reason to stop it. Usually though, they will drop the milk when they are ready but you may want to try encouraging a beaker rather than a bottle at around 18months (advice given by health prof here in UK).

Personally I like my son having a bottle right before bed, it helps him sleep & he never wakes in the night hungry, he take a lot of food during the day but burns so much energy that the bottle gives him a top up for bed time, I know some kids who have refused all milk from 12 months & as long as they are getting enough dairy from yogurts, milk on cereal & cheese then the health prof here don't see it as a problem just as they don't view drinking milk well into the toddler stage (2.5 years +) as a problem either. Advice here is to go with the flow & let your child lead you, so if you daughter is not ready to stop the milk then why force her to.

[kannon99]

Remember that forumlas have sugar in them and having a bottle or sippy cup of it before bed can cause cavities!

Boo, you don't mind that your son is on soy formula? I've read a lot that soy for boys is not good. Not like there are really great alternatives here though.

torrenova, when a child is breastfed past age one and on to age 2 or 3, it's found that the mother's milk changes to meet the child's different needs. Stages of formula take this into account. Though not as high quality or with all the immunological advantages, formula is still a better alternative in my opinion. Also, cow milk is highly allergenic.

[2008bangkok]

Rightly or wrongly i have already started my 3 month son on stage2 as stage 1 wasnt filling him up, i was gonna put him on 3 but their is alot lower stuff in 3 than 2, IMHO i would and will use stage 3 and 4 rather than use cows milk as cows milk is meant for cows not humans so it doesnt have the same amount as nutritonal value for small children who depend on it...from what my friends and family have said a child will just one day decide they dont want milk anymore..

everybody is different and what im trying to explain to my MRS is everybody has a opinion and there is no right way or wrong way just what ever you think is best..

good luck

[Boo]

Prior to 12 months my son was on a special hypoallergenic formula as it is suggested that too much soya under 12 months can create an allergy towards it. There is research into soya causing problems later in life in boys but not enough to bother me as there are just as many studies to suggest that it doesn't. There are also studies for & against stages of formulas too so I prefer to be guided by the current research coming out of Europe & UK by child care nutritionist & health professionals & my own researched opinion.

[torrenova]

Our daughter only had breast milk for a couple of months. She never really took to it either from the breast or expressed first. I wanted her to take it for much longer but there is not much you can do if she refuses to drink !

I don't think the cow's milk option is going to suit (plus just asked the missus who thought I was mad for suggesting it in the first place !) so probably we'll stick with the formula.

What I do sometimes see is that she will occasionally want to refuse solids (a variety of which we know she likes) if she thinks a bottle might be forthcoming. I don't want to let her build on that but don't really want a like it or lump it attitude to giving her food.

As for sugar and cavities then I'm certainly not worried. We brush her teeth twice a day and anyway, she'll get a proper new set later. For now, better she's just healthy.

I never saw our daughter not getting full on Stage 1 ? Just feed her more then ? Surely it is volume and not what is inside at that age ?

[2008bangkok]

I never saw our daughter not getting full on Stage 1 ? Just feed her more then ? Surely it is volume and not what is inside at that age ?

You can only feed a baby as much as they want to drink, the point being is he will drink as much as he wants then go to sleep then wake up alot quicker crying as he wasnt full...stage 2 has more substance in it so it fills them up more which is why stage 2 is meant for 6 months as there stomachs are used to it and can take the thicker milk.

[polecat]

We give our 14-month-old son UHT milk cartons. One in the morning before some cornflakes, one in the afternoon a couple of hours after his solids lunch, and one in the evening about an hour before bed. He still has to have it from a bottle, otherwise he just shakes it everywhere and squeezes the carton. Little terror! He seems pretty content, although if you dare to eat anything without offering it to him, you're in trouble.

We were so relieved to get rid of the formula. Expensive and so much washing up and sterilising!

[hereata]

Our pediatrician suggest we let our son drink Whole Milk when he reached 1yo thus from that time onwards, we switch to Whole Milk. Our housekeeper kept saying that we should let him drink formula saying it's a lot better than Whole Milk (she was my hubby's nanny and had taken care of quite a few of my hubby's nieces and nephews). These kind of thoughts that formula is better than fresh milk is from the time where formula was considered the best - even better than breast milk.

Anyways, we just give him whole milk now and only use formula when we're traveling.

We were wondering about how much milk should we give him and were told that these days, he treats drinking milk as "comfort" food.

There's one problem that we encountered was that if he drinks too much whole milk, he'll get constipation. We were advised to dilute the milk with water and that solved our problem

[torrenova]

So do you warm this cow milk up ? If so how ?

Don't think we'll be migrating but I'd like to know anyway.

As for your doctor saying move to cow milk, why ? what was the reason behind it ?

[hereata]

Hi! We just warm it the usual way. Just put the bottle in hot water. Now we mix it with water and hot water.

As for why doc told us to give whole milk. She just said it's better. I also read in Babycenter that Whole Milk is better IF baby is not allergic to it. My sis in law (fr the States) also says it's a lot better than formula.

Try google search and you'll get a lot of answers from it.

[Boo]

they need the fat & calcium

[buzzer101]

Hi,

We have a 14 month old daughter and would like to try and get her to drink cow's milk full fat, could anyone please advice on any brands/types?

[hereata]

Hiya,

I'm letting my son drink Meiji brand.

[buzzer101]

Thanks Hereata,

Is it the darker blue bottle?

[hereata]

yup

[buzzer101]

Thanks again

[nikster]

Hiya,

I'm letting my son drink Meiji brand.

Good call... I think I'll start ours (14) soon. Mom thinks it's mad, I'll have to dig up backup studies from the internet

Dutch Mill was really fishy throughout the melanin scandal so I am not going to use them again for anything.

Our son drinks Dumex from the box, about 1 box a day, other than that solids and still loves his breast milk though he obviously doesn't need it given that he has a full set of very healthy looking teeth... we are using Dumex because it was the only one my wife could find that doesn't have sugar in it. We don't feed him anything with sugar we figure he'll be downing sugary junk snacks at some point but we'll stall that for as long as possible...

[torrenova]

Hiya,

I'm letting my son drink Meiji brand.

Good call... I think I'll start ours (14) soon. Mom thinks it's mad, I'll have to dig up backup studies from the internet

Dutch Mill was really fishy throughout the melanin scandal so I am not going to use them again for anything.

Our son drinks Dumex from the box, about 1 box a day, other than that solids and still loves his breast milk though he obviously doesn't need it given that he has a full set of very healthy looking teeth... we are using Dumex because it was the only one my wife could find that doesn't have sugar in it. We don't feed him anything with sugar we figure he'll be downing sugary junk snacks at some point but we'll stall that for as long as possible...

My missus thinks it is mad as well to give the baby cow's milk. Ours is also on Dumex but about 3 bottles a day. One in the morning, one before sleep and probably one at some time during the day. 6 oz or so each time. The rest is rice, meat, fish, soup, basically whatever we eat.

If you get some studies, kindly post some links here will you.

[travellermom]

My son I was never allergic to milk or formula, but by 15 months I started giving him whole milk and he developed an allergy. The doctor said that the milk was too rich and too strong for his liver that time, and I should switch to a follow up formula (the ones that said 1+). So we did, and everything worked fine.

The difference is that the protein and fat in formula is processed for better digestion and whole milk is not. So, whatever changes you are planning to do, do it slowly. Start mixing 1/2 formula and 1/2 whole milk, for example.

Whole milk - is cheaper, easier and usually does not have sugar.

Formula - usually is sweetened (look for the ones with less sugar, be careful with other types of sugar like sucrose, glucose and other oses..), has lots of added vitamins and minerals.

Make sure you brush her teeth throughly before bed and in the morning, and after her night bottles wipe her teeth and gums with a wet cotton ball and make her drink a sip of water.

Hope it helps!! - This is my blog backpackerkid.synthasite.com , still working on it...

[heavenlynz]

Our daughter is 16 months she allergic to cow milk formula so we put her on goat milk its better then cow formula...

my daughter use to have 4 200ml bottles during the day when she was 13 months but when she turn 15 months we try giving her small bowl of ice cube to suck on and she love it now everytime she finished her solid foods she always ask for ice not bottle... but we still give her 2 200ml bottle at night, one before she go to sleep and again 7.30am......

[cathyy]

Children vary. Cow's milk is perfectly fine for babies over 12 months old, and yes, the dark blue capped whole fat is the preferred kind. As Boo said, the kids need the fat for the calories. My own kids were not able to tolerate whole milk, but tolerated 2% just fine. This was not totally unexpected, as I had had to change my son's formula brand (to Similac) due to his inability to tolerate the high fat content of the one brand (Enfamil). The follow-up formulas are a nice idea to get the formula companies more money, because they didn't even exist when my children were small - I guess that tells you how "essential" they are.

Children over a year old should not be getting over about 16 oz (480 ml) of milk/formula a day. Too much milk interferes with them eating enough solid food to provide all the nutrients they need.

Remember that toddlers can't eat enough food to last from breakfast to lunch, and from lunch to dinner. They need a planned, nutritious snack to tide them over.

[torrenova]

Fair comments Cathy.

We've still never gotten around to trying real milk, though perhaps !

You're right about not giving too much milk though I have no idea of amounts. The problem with this is that as they grow older and can consume more, it is very easy for them to consume 16oz in 2 feeds.

[cathyy]

Yes, it is very easy for them to consume too much milk, especially if they are still on the bottle. Weaning them to a cup helps keep the milk intake to the right level. My daughter and son both weaned from the bottle to to a cup by 15 months old or so. But keeping toddlers on the bottle is far less work for the parents than weaning, what with all the watching while they drink from their cups and cleaning up the spills.

Insert rant here about lazy parents not allowing children to grow up by keeping them on a bottle and in diapers well after they are able to be weaned and toilet trained because it's less work for the parent. No criticism of any specific parent intended - just one of those "kids these days" things.

Edited January 9, 2009 by cathyy

[torrenova]

No previous experience Cathy so feel free to rant away

Have talked through it with the missus but not sure how far it went in !

As ever, it is all about preparation and having the things you need in to make what you want. My experience is that Thais are not terribly good at logistical forward planning.

[chiangmaibruce]

Our boy is over 3 now and my wife is keen to keep him on formula (? Gold Step 3). She is convinced that cows milk is not as good. She asked the doctor and he said it's fine to keep him going on it.

It may be fine, but is it really necessary? He has had cows milk from time to time (when we ran out of formula) and his head didn't spin around like in "The Exorcist" or anything like that.

Just curious what the official Thai health dept guidelines are? What is accepted wisdom for Thais re: this issue. I would like to get URL's or brochures to show my wife in the event she is not convinced by system farang info sources. Thanks

- CB

[torrenova]

One thing I do remember though is going to play school when 2 or perhaps 2 1/2 and never having milk or formula (did they have formula way back then ?). I suspect I was off the milk apart from cold cow's milk by 2 years old.

Mine is now coming up 19 months old and chugging her way through the best part of Bt500 to Bt1000 a week of milk (can never remember how many tins I buy at one time !).

Today she had a bottle after waking, then a shower after which she had some fruit (apple, satsumas, grapes), some of a croissant. Later she had some soup with rice, chicken and vegetables. Some more milk in the afternoon, some food with mother for dinner and some milk after a shower before sleeping.

Some days she wants more milk but she does lie her large morning and evening bottles. Still on Dumex 2 but I cannot see why she would need to go through to stage 4 ??????????

[mrbojangles]

A quick question peeps. Can you get Cow and Gate in Thailand ?

My little one (6 months now) was on Cow and Gate in the UK and i couldn't find it here in Saudi. I e-mailed Cow and Gate and they told me they went under the brand of Babelac here. But it took them a few days to answer.

[torrenova]

yeah that Babelac or whatev er is here but not Cow and Gate as you mention.