Thaksin Guilty In Land Case, Gets 2-year Imprisonment

[Thai at Heart]

BBC world just reported that Thailand will now apply for extradition

but the reporter said the British Government could object if they thought

he would not receive a fair trial ?? But hold on a minute he has

already been found guilt and sentenced ??

So can the British justifiably refuse to extradite him back here ?

As far as I know yes for various reasons.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[jitagon]

BBC NEWS, Page last updated at 08:45 GMT, Tuesday, 21 October 2008 09:45 UK

Thai ex-PM guilty of corruption

Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has been found guilty of corruption and sentenced to two years in prison by the Thai Supreme Court.

In the landmark ruling, he was found to have used political influence to help his wife purchase land from a state agency at a knock-down price.

The couple fled to the UK in August, saying they would not get a fair trial.

The decision comes amid growing tension between the former leader's supporters and his opponents.

The Supreme Court's decision is the first in a series of cases lodged against Mr Thaksin.

For weeks protesters have demanded the resignation of the government, saying it is too close to Mr Thaksin.

The administration of Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat - who is Mr Thaksin's brother-in-law - has been virtually paralysed by the protests.

And correspondents say the verdict is unlikely to pacify the thousands of protesters who have been camped outside the prime minister's office for the past two months.

Unquote

The fact that he has been convicted is a very important milestone in Thai history.

I,d like to think he would serve the sentence handed down, but even if he doesn,t, the important precedent has been set and many of the ex TRT and the present substitute government will be well and truly wondering what will happen next. for the rest of them.

IMHO as always.

Happy times indeed by the mere fact that he was found guilty.

marshbags

P.S.

My only other observation is that he only got 2 years and not a sentence at least equal to those being served by petty criminals who are incarcerated for decades for what in comparison to this offence in terms of accountability and it,s offence against the justice system and the laws of Thailand fade into insignificance.

Unfortunately Thai Law does not rely on the concept of 'precedent', rather like the farang who won the case he took to the Thai Supreme Court insisting he was indeed the rightful, freehold, owner of some land he had bought. And so although I share most people's view that this sentencing of Taksin sends a message, hopefully to those in the UK also, that he isn't quite the innocent he purports himself to be, it's still a very long haul to get all of those that follow to toe the line. Particularly with Thailand's history of laissez faire corruption.

It's a start.

[animatic]

The fact that he finally got determined as a criminal is such a huge landmark in constitutional history... that -even when everyone would love to see him pay for his actions- doesn't matter if he comes to serve the sentence or not... the verdict -as a historical fact itself- is enormous!

Yes, and the loss of face is incalculatable.

Edited October 21, 2008 by animatic

[exalll]

From The Nation web-site:

"Thaksin's lawyers file complaint against Sondhi

<H2></H2>

"Two layers of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra filed a complaint with police alleging Sondhi Limthongkul, the Manager Daily and ASTV with defaming him ... The two layers said they were authorised by Thaksin to take legal action against Sondhi for making defamation statement against the former prime minister and the statement was published by the paper and aired on the satellite TV"

I'm confused ... isn't it the case that he has no faith in the Thai justice system? So how can he carry on suing people? You can't reject the system when it suits you (i.e. when you are charged) and then turn around and rely on it to help you out!

[Johpa]

The BBC is reporting that Thaksin expected a guilty verdict. He also stated that he is not in fact seeking asylum in the UK.

Criminals do tend to know their guilt.

He is not seeking asylum. He is just taking a break in peaceful London.....

London had long been the residence of choice of Thailand's highest ranking exiles fleeing the wrath of one group or another due to some misdeeds that somehow went beyond the usual acceptable misdeeds of what is clearly a deviant society at the upper social stratum. London remains one of the last bastions where the peerage system has quarters where it is not openly mocked.

[bangon04]

Two years for emptying the nation's treasury. WOW! I am in the wrong business. And Merry Olde England, whose immigration officers traumatize and humiliate tourists at entry points to assure the they will leave the Kindgom, will welcome the wealthy convicted felon with open arms and permit unlimited residence.

The immigration officers have to harass people at the entry points, because the UK is one of the few countries which doesn't bother to check IDs of people leaving the country. They have no way of knowing who is still in the country at any time. So if Thaksin decided to leave the UK, we would have to rely on some airport/airline working telling the press.....

[marquess]

The BBC is reporting that Thaksin expected a guilty verdict. He also stated that he is not in fact seeking asylum in the UK.

Criminals do tend to know their guilt.

He is not seeking asylum. He is just taking a break in peaceful London.....

London had long been the residence of choice of Thailand's highest ranking exiles fleeing the wrath of one group or another due to some misdeeds that somehow went beyond the usual acceptable misdeeds of what is clearly a deviant society at the upper social stratum. London remains one of the last bastions where the peerage system has quarters where it is not openly mocked.

What has the Peerage system got to do with it all?

[sriracha john]

Mission Impossible through the years on Thaivisa...

Thaksin Resigns as Prime Minister

Time to recharge the batteries now that mission #1 has been accomplished.

("Mission Impossible" was what many people thought)

Thai court rejects April elections

Constitutional court calls for new parliamentary poll

Another month... another mission accomplished.... #2 and counting....

Thaksin Resigns As Thai Rak Thai Leader

Mission Accomplished #3

Thai Rak Thai Party Dissolved

Mission Accomplished #4

Thaksin Banned From Politics For Five Years

Mission Accomplished #5

Arrest Warrants Issued For Former PM Thaksin And His Wife

Mission Accomplished #6

and now,

Thaksin guilty in land case, gets 2-year imprisonment

Mission Accomplished #7

[Thai at Heart]

What is number 8?

Or is this game over?

[sjaak327]

What is number 8?

Or is this game over?

Thaksin returns to Thailand to serve his sentence.

Or was it to rule the country, I'm confused

[Moonrakers]

What is number 8?

Or is this game over?

Thaksin returns to Thailand to serve his sentence.

Or was it to rule the country, I'm confused

And actually spend at least a single day in chains behind bars.

Nah, that's just silly.

[Thai at Heart]

What is number 8?

Or is this game over?

Thaksin returns to Thailand to serve his sentence.

Or was it to rule the country, I'm confused

Both of those outcomes look a very very long way off at the moment.

[triplegee]

You may side the looser as much as you want. I always side the winner, no matter who. This is something I learn from Banharn.

Says it all... fairweather supporters are everywhere at the moment.

[sjaak327]

What is number 8?

Or is this game over?

Thaksin returns to Thailand to serve his sentence.

Or was it to rule the country, I'm confused

Both of those outcomes look a very very long way off at the moment.

Well the first one is not very likely, the second one though, is repeatedely being suggested by posters on this forum, something along the lines of the PPP changing the constitution and giving Thaksin a way to come back. I personally still lack the imagination as to how they would succeed in doing just that.

[animatic]

What is number 8?

Or is this game over?

Thaksin returns to Thailand to serve his sentence.

Or was it to rule the country, I'm confused

Both of those outcomes look a very very long way off at the moment.

With Potty screaming in the background about their lost face,

he orders his demonic street mad minions, to force a move by the army,

so he can divide it and cut off the head, and install HIS 3rd tier leadership

and then recall lil Bro from Bejing in time to quickstep rewrite the rules.

Then return in triumph as a uniting force

to save the little people from the big bad....

wait, was that the doorbell? MI-5, you want what?

With her braying in my ear I might lose it too...

Edited October 21, 2008 by animatic

[hansnl]

I wonder if what we has been discussed about Thaksin this and he being a criminal etc.etc. is only some sort of a cliche... of people who are living in an illusionary dumb sheep kind of follow the leader with the biggest mouth..isn't there anyone here on the forum who has the GUTS to be pro-Thaksin??? I don't understand much about politics...what I do understand is that Thailand after he is ousted has been exposed of not able to handle democracy....The PAD has destroyed more than Thaksin with his " corruption" or criminal activities....foreign investments under Thaksin was more stable...now forget it....I wouldn't want to invest anything into Thailand...No one now will be able to run Thailand with a strong fist...which the Thais need...a strong leader....corrupt or not....so long the majority of Thailand propers isn't that more important??? The poor was benefitting so much, more stability, educational reform, fight against corruption, crime, drugs....all a major push towards a better Thailand...Now it is all going down the hole...just because a small minority rich big mouths are envious of Thaksins successes.....think of this for a minute...hope more people on this forum has the GUTS to also respond.....

Fight against corruption????????

Fight against crime????????

Fight against drugs????????

The poor benefitted?????????

Stability???????

Educational reform????????

Really?????

Please wake up to reality?

[sriracha john]

What is number 8?

Or is this game over?

it's not over...

#8 will be posted after it occurs.... same as the previous 7

[animatic]

I wonder if what we has been discussed about Thaksin this and he being a criminal etc.etc. is only some sort of a cliche... of people who are living in an illusionary dumb sheep kind of follow the leader with the biggest mouth..isn't there anyone here on the forum who has the GUTS to be pro-Thaksin??? I don't understand much about politics...what I do understand is that Thailand after he is ousted has been exposed of not able to handle democracy....The PAD has destroyed more than Thaksin with his " corruption" or criminal activities....foreign investments under Thaksin was more stable...now forget it....I wouldn't want to invest anything into Thailand...No one now will be able to run Thailand with a strong fist...which the Thais need...a strong leader....corrupt or not....so long the majority of Thailand propers isn't that more important??? The poor was benefitting so much, more stability, educational reform, fight against corruption, crime, drugs....all a major push towards a better Thailand...Now it is all going down the hole...just because a small minority rich big mouths are envious of Thaksins successes.....think of this for a minute...hope more people on this forum has the GUTS to also respond.....

Fight against corruption????????

Fight against crime????????

Fight against drugs????????

The poor benefitted?????????

Stability???????

Educational reform????????

Really?????

Please wake up to reality?

It amazes me to see this.

Alternate universe calling, some sort of string theory dimension shift.

:D :D

Hansni said it right ;WAKE ~UP!

[Insight]

Another farce before - Chula uni professor was speaking live on the BBC World station via telephone. He started to mention how the courts never really act independently and the trial wasn't exactly fair because it was done under a military constitution. Blah blah blah - we've heard it all before.

At that point though he was cut off for some reason. It was easy to tell the reasons the news reader was thinking why judging by the grin on her face.

Thaksin getting sentenced is a positive development. The amount of negative developments that people have to put up with, day in day out, is another matter.

[old wanderer]

Read this carefully:

The court found that Thaksin had violated Article 100 and Article 102 of the National Counter Corruption Act, which states that government officials, including prime ministers, and their spouses are prohibited from entering into or having interests in contracts with state agencies under their supervision.

Now why wasn't she considered for guilt. They stated she wasn't a gov't employee.

I read the above taken from the constitutional law as stating" AND THEIR SPOUSES"

I cannot beleive the framers of the constitutional thought all spouses both husband and wife would be working for the government .

I , personally , do not interpret the written statement to discount her from prosecution.

Tell me if you read and understand differently.

Gonzo

Ok Gonza et al,

The reason the court found Potjiman (I refuse to add the honorific before her name), not guilty was because the court only has jurisdiciton for those peiple holding high government office.......This is the Supreme Court only for those with high political office...

She could be tried in a regular court and would be found guilty.....however it lack jurisdiciton to rule and pass sentence against non-government people...which she was not.

There are a lot more cases comming ujp, and the judges (those that do not like chocolate) have the bit between the teeth, and even with the attorney general trying to slow them down, they are going to keep adding years...Soon to come with be Thaskins and Potjiman's children....they are a long way off the hook. The very next is his brother-in-law....

The wheels of justice grind oh so slowley, but extreemly finely, when not mucked up with chocolate.

[sabaijai]

Meanwhile in Beijing ...

Suspended death sentence for crooked Beijing vice mayor

2 days ago

BEIJING — Beijing's former vice mayor has received a suspended death sentence for corruption, state media said Sunday, in a case that raised concerns over graft in the preparations for this year's Olympics.

Liu Zhihua, 59, was sentenced to death by a court in nearby Hebei province but with a two-year reprieve, Xinhua news agency said. Such rulings typically result in the death sentence being commuted to life imprisonment.

Liu, who oversaw construction projects for the Beijing Games, was stripped of his government post in June 2006 on suspicion of corrupt activities.

[sabaijai]

Meanwhile in Beijing ...

Suspended death sentence for crooked Beijing vice mayor

2 days ago

BEIJING — Beijing's former vice mayor has received a suspended death sentence for corruption, state media said Sunday, in a case that raised concerns over graft in the preparations for this year's Olympics.

Liu Zhihua, 59, was sentenced to death by a court in nearby Hebei province but with a two-year reprieve, Xinhua news agency said. Such rulings typically result in the death sentence being commuted to life imprisonment.

Liu, who oversaw construction projects for the Beijing Games, was stripped of his government post in June 2006 on suspicion of corrupt activities.

[Moonrakers]

Meanwhile in Beijing ...

Suspended death sentence for crooked Beijing vice mayor

2 days ago

BEIJING — Beijing's former vice mayor has received a suspended death sentence for corruption, state media said Sunday, in a case that raised concerns over graft in the preparations for this year's Olympics.

Liu Zhihua, 59, was sentenced to death by a court in nearby Hebei province but with a two-year reprieve, Xinhua news agency said. Such rulings typically result in the death sentence being commuted to life imprisonment.

Liu, who oversaw construction projects for the Beijing Games, was stripped of his government post in June 2006 on suspicion of corrupt activities.

Still relative to the thread, despite not being anything to do with Thailand.

but with a two-year reprieve

Two years grace to do a runner perhaps? Mr. and Mrs Shinawatra were allowed to simply leave to visit the olympics. Maybe they where familiar?

There is also quite a to do happening in Turkey at the moment for corruption/coup related reasons.

Edited October 21, 2008 by globalj

[roamer]

BBC world just reported that Thailand will now apply for extradition

but the reporter said the British Government could object if they thought

he would not receive a fair trial ?? But hold on a minute he has

already been found guilt and sentenced ??

So can the British justifiably refuse to extradite him back here ?

As far as I know yes for various reasons.

The reporter is wrong...or you heard it wrong. If however he was to apply for political asylum those grounds could be used. One point to note is that any extradition request would eventually have to be signed by the Home Secretary, that is the stage where the politics come. into it.

In common with many other nations, the UK will not surrender a fugitive wanted for a political crime.

Thats where the problems start, the defense would be that the charges were politically motivated. A defense that could easily fail but that then opens up another can of worms, not least the Human Rights acts. So I wouldn't hold my breath....

[pschef]

I wonder if what we has been discussed about Thaksin this and he being a criminal etc.etc. is only some sort of a cliche... of people who are living in an illusionary dumb sheep kind of follow the leader with the biggest mouth..isn't there anyone here on the forum who has the GUTS to be pro-Thaksin??? I don't understand much about politics...what I do understand is that Thailand after he is ousted has been exposed of not able to handle democracy....The PAD has destroyed more than Thaksin with his " corruption" or criminal activities....foreign investments under Thaksin was more stable...now forget it....I wouldn't want to invest anything into Thailand...No one now will be able to run Thailand with a strong fist...which the Thais need...a strong leader....corrupt or not....so long the majority of Thailand propers isn't that more important??? The poor was benefitting so much, more stability, educational reform, fight against corruption, crime, drugs....all a major push towards a better Thailand...Now it is all going down the hole...just because a small minority rich big mouths are envious of Thaksins successes.....think of this for a minute...hope more people on this forum has the GUTS to also respond.....

I for one agree, Taxing was or is a different leader. Right or wrong he did make a difference. the King didn’t like him, but secretly gave him the thumbs up.

I see many thing going back now, lets say to the old ways. Teachers selling drugs to kids in the high schools etc, and I know that was sort of stamped out under Taxin. He was a man of the people, although many people (rich ones) would disagree. I see in my own back yard, ya ba is coming back with a vengeance but as crstal amphetamine. More easy to produce and worse as u all know. So what he made a few bob, think what a better place it could be, if we give him a chance.

I for one

[roamer]

Duplicate post.

Edited October 21, 2008 by roamer

[roamer]

I wonder if what we has been discussed about Thaksin this and he being a criminal etc.etc. is only some sort of a cliche... of people who are living in an illusionary dumb sheep kind of follow the leader with the biggest mouth..isn't there anyone here on the forum who has the GUTS to be pro-Thaksin??? I don't understand much about politics...what I do understand is that Thailand after he is ousted has been exposed of not able to handle democracy....The PAD has destroyed more than Thaksin with his " corruption" or criminal activities....foreign investments under Thaksin was more stable...now forget it....I wouldn't want to invest anything into Thailand...No one now will be able to run Thailand with a strong fist...which the Thais need...a strong leader....corrupt or not....so long the majority of Thailand propers isn't that more important??? The poor was benefitting so much, more stability, educational reform, fight against corruption, crime, drugs....all a major push towards a better Thailand...Now it is all going down the hole...just because a small minority rich big mouths are envious of Thaksins successes.....think of this for a minute...hope more people on this forum has the GUTS to also respond.....

I for one agree, Taxing was or is a different leader. Right or wrong he did make a difference. the King didn’t like him, but secretly gave him the thumbs up.

I see many thing going back now, lets say to the old ways. Teachers selling drugs to kids in the high schools etc, and I know that was sort of stamped out under Taxin. He was a man of the people, although many people (rich ones) would disagree. I see in my own back yard, ya ba is coming back with a vengeance but as crstal amphetamine. More easy to produce and worse as u all know. So what he made a few bob, think what a better place it could be, if we give him a chance.

I for one

Yes of course, why didn't I think of that ? Make the nation a better place by having roaming death squads and corrupt meglomaniacs running the show. Trying to recall all the pictures I saw of the Mr Bigs dead in their bullet riddled BMWs & Mercs....err, actually I can't recall any. I fail to understand people like you. You accuse PAD of being anti democracy yet the sort of politics and its leaders that you espouse...lost for words. What can be a greater example of not living in a democracy than death squads and corrupt leaders.

I think you deserve to live in the type of place you so obviously desire.

[animatic]

I wonder if what we has been discussed about Thaksin this and he being a criminal etc.etc. is only some sort of a cliche... of people who are living in an illusionary dumb sheep kind of follow the leader with the biggest mouth..isn't there anyone here on the forum who has the GUTS to be pro-Thaksin??? I don't understand much about politics...what I do understand is that Thailand after he is ousted has been exposed of not able to handle democracy....The PAD has destroyed more than Thaksin with his " corruption" or criminal activities....foreign investments under Thaksin was more stable...now forget it....I wouldn't want to invest anything into Thailand...No one now will be able to run Thailand with a strong fist...which the Thais need...a strong leader....corrupt or not....so long the majority of Thailand propers isn't that more important??? The poor was benefitting so much, more stability, educational reform, fight against corruption, crime, drugs....all a major push towards a better Thailand...Now it is all going down the hole...just because a small minority rich big mouths are envious of Thaksins successes.....think of this for a minute...hope more people on this forum has the GUTS to also respond.....

I for one agree, Taxing was or is a different leader. Right or wrong he did make a difference. the King didn’t like him, but secretly gave him the thumbs up.

I see many thing going back now, lets say to the old ways. Teachers selling drugs to kids in the high schools etc, and I know that was sort of stamped out under Taxin. He was a man of the people, although many people (rich ones) would disagree. I see in my own back yard, ya ba is coming back with a vengeance but as crstal amphetamine. More easy to produce and worse as u all know. So what he made a few bob, think what a better place it could be, if we give him a chance.

I for one

Yes of course, why didn't I think of that ? Make the nation a better place by having roaming death squads and corrupt meglomaniacs running the show. Trying to recall all the pictures I saw of the Mr Bigs dead in their bullet riddled BMWs & Mercs....err, actually I can't recall any. I fail to understand people like you. You accuse PAD of being anti democracy yet the sort of politics and its leaders that you espouse...lost for words. What can be a greater example of not living in a democracy than death squads and corrupt leaders.

I think you deserve to live in the type of place you so obviously desire.

Of course forcing the Ex/Im bank to make a billions loan to the same knob heads

who MAKE the yaba and meth so they can have cell phone systems sold by your own

closely held, but secretly held company, had NOTHING to do with the retuirn of yaba

and meth to the streets. So somebody's refrigerator get shot up because they raided

the wrong address guns blazing, means nothing.

This is a pathetic scare message with little basis in reality. PR spin for the under informed.

And you are not to talk of the royals here, or have you forgotten on purpose?

Edited October 21, 2008 by animatic

[BigBuddha]

I wonder if what we has been discussed about Thaksin this and he being a criminal etc.etc. is only some sort of a cliche... of people who are living in an illusionary dumb sheep kind of follow the leader with the biggest mouth..isn't there anyone here on the forum who has the GUTS to be pro-Thaksin??? I don't understand much about politics...what I do understand is that Thailand after he is ousted has been exposed of not able to handle democracy....The PAD has destroyed more than Thaksin with his " corruption" or criminal activities....foreign investments under Thaksin was more stable...now forget it....I wouldn't want to invest anything into Thailand...No one now will be able to run Thailand with a strong fist...which the Thais need...a strong leader....corrupt or not....so long the majority of Thailand propers isn't that more important??? The poor was benefitting so much, more stability, educational reform, fight against corruption, crime, drugs....all a major push towards a better Thailand...Now it is all going down the hole...just because a small minority rich big mouths are envious of Thaksins successes.....think of this for a minute...hope more people on this forum has the GUTS to also respond.....

I for one agree, Taxing was or is a different leader. Right or wrong he did make a difference. the King didn’t like him, but secretly gave him the thumbs up.

I see many thing going back now, lets say to the old ways. Teachers selling drugs to kids in the high schools etc, and I know that was sort of stamped out under Taxin. He was a man of the people, although many people (rich ones) would disagree. I see in my own back yard, ya ba is coming back with a vengeance but as crstal amphetamine. More easy to produce and worse as u all know. So what he made a few bob, think what a better place it could be, if we give him a chance.

I for one

Yes of course, why didn't I think of that ? Make the nation a better place by having roaming death squads and corrupt meglomaniacs running the show. Trying to recall all the pictures I saw of the Mr Bigs dead in their bullet riddled BMWs & Mercs....err, actually I can't recall any. I fail to understand people like you. You accuse PAD of being anti democracy yet the sort of politics and its leaders that you espouse...lost for words. What can be a greater example of not living in a democracy than death squads and corrupt leaders.

I think you deserve to live in the type of place you so obviously desire.

Of course forcing the Ex/Im bank to make a billions loan to the same knob heads

who MAKE the yaba and meth so they can have cell phone systems sold by your own

closely held, but secretly held company, had NOTHING to do with the retuirn of yaba

and meth to the streets. So somebody's refrigerator get shot up because they raided

the wrong address guns blazing, means nothing.

This is a pathetic scare message with little basis in reality. PR spin for the under informed.

And you are not to talk of the royals here, or have you forgotten on purpose?

Accusing without any evidence is easy...what about the huge insurance companies who are also taking their money and investing into the weapons trading...this kind of thought is endless ....and doesn't have any bearings whatsoever....

I wonder who is pathetic and uninformed where do you get your resources from....you get it all from the big mouths screamers that are using manipulative means in the media to establish their dirty greedy works of filling their own pockets.....it's all corruption and politics...both "evil"....I prefer to choose the evil that is affecting me and majority of the people in Thailand for the good....now it is total chaos and destructiveness ......just wait and see if the PAD and their bunch of corrupt and greedy rich will get the steering wheel of running Thailand.....dig deep man.....you may not be safe in Thailand anymore...anarchy and chaos and crime will be the destiny for Thailand....

Wakie, wakie yes are you aware of the shit Thailand is now in......

pschef you got balls to respond...hope others will join in to spice up this onesided Thaksin complainers forum

[Loaded]

The reason the court found Potjiman (I refuse to add the honorific before her name), not guilty was because the court only has jurisdiciton for those peiple holding high government office.......This is the Supreme Court only for those with high political office...

She could be tried in a regular court and would be found guilty.....however it lack jurisdiciton to rule and pass sentence against non-government people...which she was not.

You may be confusing the Supreme Court with the Constitutional Court. The Supreme Court can take cases from anyone Thai citizen or foreigner. It is the final level of appeal from a provincial court. IE Provincial court's verdict appealed in the Appeal Court; the Appeal court's verdict appealed in the Supreme court. End of the road. I believe some cases seem to go straight to the Supreme court and there's no appeal against the verdict. This seems to be the situation in this case.