Botox, 2 Places, Which One

[littlelady]

I am going to Bangkok soon and will be getting some Botox done, I have norrowed it down to 2 places, has anyone used the following and can advise of the experieces please

www.sp-cosmeticsurgery.com

or

www.laser-surgery-bangkok.com/

[Comehome]

Hi!

My friend had botox done on her forehead at Romrawin clinic and she was satisfied with the result.

I think she payed around 5000 baht for just the forehead.

They put emla-cream first for 20 minutes so she wouldn't feel too much pain from the needle and then they cooled her forhead with ice during the procedure.

She did not notice any huge difference right away but during the 2-4 following days after the procedure it gradually started working.

It lasted or about 4 months on her.

She lives in europe but had her botox done in Bkk. I don't know if the climate or humidity in the air is affecting how long the result will last.

She said it went away gradually. She was happy it all didn't just stop working at the same time over night. That would have been chocking, she said.

Hope you will get good results.

Good luck and take care!

/comehome

[kyb789]

I am going to Bangkok soon and will be getting some Botox done, I have norrowed it down to 2 places, has anyone used the following and can advise of the experieces please

www.sp-cosmeticsurgery.com

or

www.laser-surgery-bangkok.com/

Go with the cheapest place. Lots of competition, unfortunately they usually charge the same. ~5,000baht per area. As the other poster said, it only lasts about 4 or 5 months.

[Sheryl]

I would caution regarding the "go with the cheapest"advice that it should not be too cheap, if it is then it may be a counterfeit or substandard preparation that is being used. Most of the cost is from the drug itself and the drug is expensive. For which reason there is not much cost savings in having it done here than back home.

Also would advise against Emla for this, serious side effects have been documented and the pain involved is minimal and very fleeting -- whole thing takes 5-10 minutes, it's basically like a bunch of small bee stings. I've been having it done regularly for years.

Do not however know anything about the specific places mentioned.

Other than making sure it is the genuine product that is used, the rest depends on the experience of the doctor (of course be sure it is a doctor and one with specific training in Botox) and also how much time they spend; even in the best of hands you won't get as good a result if the doctor is in a rush than if they take time to carefully study your face and determnine exactly where to inject.

Ask if they do a freee "top up'(additional injections if needed 2 weeks later if needed once results are apparent), they should.

[Scott123]

I am going to Bangkok soon and will be getting some Botox done, I have norrowed it down to 2 places, has anyone used the following and can advise of the experieces please

www.sp-cosmeticsurgery.com

or

www.laser-surgery-bangkok.com/

www.laser-surgery-bangkok.com/ = Yoskarn clinic

DO NOT go to Yoskarn clinic.

2 years ago, I consulted a doctor in the U.S. and was recommanded 1 syringe of Restylane.

I then emailed Yoskarn clinic and got a quote for Restylane injection, then went to get it on my holiday. On my visit to Yoskarn, the doctor at Yoskarn said Juverderm would last longer, but I insist on getting Restylane. I wanted to get one syringe, but he said he needed to do it before he knew how much is needed. I was stupid enough to think that he would tell me 1 syringe is enough at the end. I agreed to get Restylane there. Sure enough, at the end he claimed he use more than 1 syringe. So he asked me to pay for 2. The injection was painful without any anesthesia, so the injected skin area were red and swallen. To make things worse, 3 days later when redness and swallen is gone, the smile lines and wrinkles all came back. Appearently, what the doctor gave me was just saline water. I believe he did not have Restylane in his office at all, that is why he recommanded Juverderm, and when I refused he went ahead, gave me saline water.

So, DO NOT go to Yoskarn clinic.

btw, there is only ONE doctor at Yoskarn.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Scott123

[Scott123]

btw, there is only ONE doctor at Yoskarn.

Dr. Somyos Kunachak

I checked my email and log again. The substance he recommanded was "Aquamid", not Juverderm.

And the quote was 1 c.c., not 1 syringe. He ended up saying he used more than 1 c.c. on me. So I should pay for 2 c.c.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Scott123

[AZA1]

Hi just wondering if you are going to use EMLA and how much that costs in Thailand?

[spectrum]

The injection was painful without any anesthesia, so the injected skin area were red and swallen. To make things worse, 3 days later when redness and swallen is gone, the smile lines and wrinkles all came back. Appearently, what the doctor gave me was just saline water. I believe he did not have Restylane in his office at all, that is why he recommanded Juverderm, and when I refused he went ahead, gave me saline water.

I must say I find these comments very questionable.

Firstly, I believe anaesthesia is unnecessary for procedures such as injection of Botox. Sheryl states, (as I understand it, with reference to Botox): "the pain involved is minimal and very fleeting -- whole thing takes 5-10 minutes, it's basically like a bunch of small bee stings. I've been having it done regularly for years." I have no personal experience of Botox, but that seems to the usual description from those who have used it.

Secondly, you imply that the "redness" and "swelling" were the result of the lack of anaesthesia. I don't understand the logic there, at all.

Thirdly, how did you come to the conclusion that you were injected with "saline water"?

By all accounts that I have come across, Professor Kunachak and Yoskarn Clinic have a very good reputation. I am considering a minor procedure there (not primarily cosmetic but secondarily so, I suppose). I have had no indications whatsoever of anything but professionalism and high standards of care to date.

There are plenty of dubious "clinics" offering skin care/laser/cosmetic clinics in Bangkok. I very much doubt that Yoskarn is one of them.

I'd be interested in Sheryl's comments.

Edited February 11, 2009 by spectrum

[Sheryl]

Restaylene, Aquamid etc are fillers, not Botox. There is a huge difference, in what they do/should be used for, their cost and how painful.

Botox acts by paralyzing small muscles to relax wrinkles and creases. It is, as previously stated, no more painful than a bee sting. Some places apply ice befire and after but I don't personally find that helps much and in fact the ice can be more uncomfortable than the Botox.

Botox gives execllent results for fine wrinkles and creases that aren't very deep. However deep cerases/lines, such as many people have along the sides fo their mouth dtarting from the nose (and some may have on their foreheads) will not be much helped.

Fillers are used to literally fill in such creases, there are a variety of them on the market. Fillers are not suitable for fine lines/small creases (will make them lumpy). Unlike Botox, fillers are extremely painful and it is necessary to sue a local anesthetic like Emla (and even with it, it still seriously hurts! I've had it done). Fortuneatley they last longer than Botox, i.e. several years.

The expected result from filler would be the disappearance or lessening of whatever deep creases were targeted; wrinkles will be the same as ever. For which reason combinations of both filler and Botox are sometimes used.

It is not possible to be 100% sure in advance of the amount of filler needed, a doctor can only estimate. Also, when it is done, redness and swelling are to be expected (regardless of whether anesthetic cream was used -- that only reduces pain, not the redness and swelling) and due to that iit is not posisble for the doctor to be totally sure whikle doing it if enough has been injected. They err on the side of too little since to put in more than needed would result in unsighly lump/bulge wehich cannot easily be removed, then if after the redness and swelling subside the patient feels more is needed, back again for a top off.

As for the accusation that saline water was used, that is indeed a serious one which none of us have anyway of assessing for sue. However the statement that it was very painful and produced noticeable redness and swelling for a while make saline injectiosn rather unlikely.

Let's just say that this poster was not happy with the results of a one time filler tretament given at that clinic and leave it at that.

With both Botox and fillers, important points in doctor selection are:

- training/qualifications (obviously)

- experience: the more of it a doctor has done, the better he/she will be at it. Botox is in much more widespread use here than fillers and a doctor might have a great deal of experience with Biotox but less with fillers.

- how much time and care is taken in the procedure. I stopped goping to one doctor whio has immense experience in Botox and is highly, highly skilled because due to a burgeoning practice the treatments started to be given in a rush. Even the most expert doctor will not be able to give the best results if they do not take their time to study the face carefully and proceed methodically.

[crazytj]

I would caution regarding the "go with the cheapest"advice that it should not be too cheap, if it is then it may be a counterfeit or substandard preparation that is being used. Most of the cost is from the drug itself and the drug is expensive. For which reason there is not much cost savings in having it done here than back home.

Also would advise against Emla for this, serious side effects have been documented and the pain involved is minimal and very fleeting -- whole thing takes 5-10 minutes, it's basically like a bunch of small bee stings. I've been having it done regularly for years.

Do not however know anything about the specific places mentioned.

Other than making sure it is the genuine product that is used, the rest depends on the experience of the doctor (of course be sure it is a doctor and one with specific training in Botox) and also how much time they spend; even in the best of hands you won't get as good a result if the doctor is in a rush than if they take time to carefully study your face and determnine exactly where to inject.

Ask if they do a freee "top up'(additional injections if needed 2 weeks later if needed once results are apparent), they should.

hi there..just asking if you know of a good clinic on koh samui..many thanks..

[scottyd]

Don't get botox, it makes people look very strange, like a Wax Model. Also, it tends to make people look like feet.

[uberman]

I am going to Bangkok soon and will be getting some Botox done, I have norrowed it down to 2 places, has anyone used the following and can advise of the experieces please

www.sp-cosmeticsurgery.com

or

www.laser-surgery-bangkok.com/

The clinics you mentioned above are probably the well advertised ones. A reputable doctor is probably your best choice and among the high society (who probably more then half have had botox done on them!) Dr. Mona at M&T Face Care Center is the top choice. They don't advertise much and only have one clinic but their reputation is supposedly one of the best in Thailand as I heard from word of mouth. They may be more expensive then the other "shopping mall" clinics but you get what you pay for. Check out their website. IMHO

[ericg1953]

You can also take a look at seeing Dr. Natapat at Apex Beauty.....she is a botox specialist who I have been seeing for 3 yrs now. She knows what she is doing and uses the real drug. I know she has 1 of her clinics in the Emporium.

[spectrum]

If considering Botox, I suggest you read a very interesting article on the topic. Here's a paragraph or so to get you interested:

(The researcher)showed two groups of women, one group injected with a Botox-like drug and one group not, a number of different faces, scanned their brains and recorded the activity the faces triggered. Haslinger's experiment found that the groups showed no difference when it came to sad faces, but the injected women were unable to make an angry face. And their corresponding brain scans showed reduced activity in the region for processing emotions as well as weaker connections to the area that actually triggers the feelings that go with emotions. Their inability to make an angry face meant they were less able not only to recognise anger, but to feel it.

So it's not just empathy for others that would be compromised when facial muscles are paralysed: our own emotions and feelings are in some way diminished.

For the full story, go to

theage.com.au/news/lifeandstyle/beauty/paralysing-our-faces-destroys-our-best-communication-tool/2009/03/03/1235842445780.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Edited March 7, 2009 by spectrum

[Comehome]

At Romrawin clinic where my friend had her botox done, they used EMLA.

She had to sit with EMLA cream and some plastic film on her forhead for 25 minutes before they injected the botox.

[Texpat]

What's wrong with wrinkles?

[Scott123]

Restaylene, Aquamid etc are fillers, not Botox. There is a huge difference, in what they do/should be used for, their cost and how painful.....

Firstly, I believe anaesthesia is unnecessary for procedures such as injection of Botox. Sheryl states, (as I understand it, with reference to Botox): "the pain involved is minimal and very fleeting -- whole thing takes 5-10 minutes, it's basically like a bunch of small bee stings. I've been having it done regularly for years." I have no personal experience of Botox, but that seems to the usual description from those who have used it.

Secondly, you imply that the "redness" and "swelling" were the result of the lack of anaesthesia. I don't understand the logic there, at all.....

spectrum and sheryl,

My post regardig Yoskarn clinic was based on my personal experience. You can interpretate it in anyway from your own perspective. And my post was about Restyline/aquamid, not about botox. My conclusion on saline water being used was based on several professional opinions afterwards. They may or may not be correct. But I do wonder what qualified you to say sudden injection of saline water does not caused swellness.

As far as redness and swelling because of lack of anaesthesia, I do want to apologize for making such statement, as they should not be directly related.

But my experience with anaesthesia is that, the clinics I went in the U.S. always asked me if I wanted numbing cream applied to the area (for extra fee) while they prepared for botox injection. One clinic I went in BKK for Juvederm applied numbing cream without asking me and without extra charge.

My advice to people who seek cosmetic procedures in Thailand is, never trust any doctor, make sure to witness what substance they put in the syringe and how much they put in. When you ask for price estimate, always avoid the doctors who tell you they don't know the total cost (or how much of the substance is needed) before they do the procedure.

I learned my lesson and simply want to share it.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Scott123

[jackoneilone]

Scott sheryl addressed it well but let me say :

I know all about these things first hand and am very well informed and there is no absolute way some doctor can simply look at you and maybe touch a little and miraculously claim you only need 1cc ie 1ml. ITS IMPOSSIBLE.

Botox is much more standardised due to equal effects but fillers can not be accurately and perfectly determined beforehand.

And im really sorry to say this over and over again to everyone BUT GET EDUCATED about your procedures and alternatives. Restylane is a type of hyaluronic acid injectable filler and he simply recommended to you an alternative EXACT type filler called Juvederm and there are plenty of other brands out there. So what? Infact on the topic of BOTOX juverderm is from them the Newer product on the block and FDA approved to last upto 1 year.

So now we come to the point about aquamid etc.

There are plenty of fillers out there and they are generally speaking:

1. Collagen based

2. Hyluronic based

3. longer lasting alternatives eg aquamid, radiesse etc How long, how permanent and how effective depends on the ingredients used. Aquamid by far is one of the best ones out there. Remember that some of these types are very bad and can leave skin feeling granulated etc so be well researched.

Straight off the bat. SALINE WATER injected WILL NOT LEAVE YOU RED AND SWOLLEN. Even if 2ml was injected it would leave the area plumpish and redish for only a few hours MAX and within 1-3 days everything would have disappeared so there would have been no point in saline. Your body would reabsorb it so rapidly that there would be no point.

What you described though sounds like a filler. The fillers DO NOT COME IN A BOTTLE OR AMP like botox does. They come in prepacked syringes containing eg 1ml and OBVIOUSLY he cant use say 1/2 ml on you and reuse it later or something. They are very expensive. Last time I checked as an example each ml syringe of aquamid costs close to ~340 usd or so.

I have have direct experience of aquamid, juvederm, restylan, botox, fat and collagen injections . And of all the doctors out there Somyos would be the least likely to do that hes very successful and professional and has a name and reputation to uphold. eg He would only inject 1ml in me whereas somebody with me recieved 1.5ml and was charged for 2mls he could have easily done 2 on me as well but recommended against it and charge me only what was used.

now in regards to numbing cream that totally depends on ingredient and the painfulness of the procedure and what the procedure is. if its just superficial botox it might not be worth it for a procedure with maybe 4-6 injections points in and out in 10. in others it is not a good idea eg injecting aquamid as a lip filler is very painful but is advised to be done without anesthesia why? because otherwise the results might get distorted due to the plumping inflamming numbing effects of the anesthesia itself.

Now the numbing creams. Lidocaine or alternative naming lignocaine though used often is not very effective at deep dermal penetration. EMLA is much better even though its concentration is less because the prolocaine and lidocaine act synergistically (prolocaine is fast topical whereas lidocaine is slow longer lasting but needs open wound etc to work better). However much better than those are benzocaine/lidocaine/tetracaine preparations because not only are they very fast but also its penetration is quite deep 1cm +of skin is affected within minutes.

However as I said it all depends on the procedure and whether it can be done and whether its even worth doing.

Also important to note that numbing creams can actually even be useful eg in an area prone to bleeding the ingredients could stop or minimise bleeding.

Personally I would prefer some emla on my "sensitive" botox injection points but obviously would not need the benzocaine/lidocaine/tetracaine mixture. I have done it with and have done it without. I prefer to be left waiting for 20mins and be attended to later with reduced pain and the doctor agrees to do it.

[dille]

My suggestion is Dr.Somchai clinic.Unfortunately almost nobody speak English but they are good and not overpriced.Always busy, many Thai ladies attend facial treatments there, as well fillers and Botox.