Melamine In Animal Feed In China.

[OlRedEyes]

Latest in the melamine saga in China from the BBC.

Chinese melamine scandal widens

The toxic chemical melamine is probably being routinely added to Chinese animal feed, state media has reported.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7701477.stm

Maybe you guys can enlighten us a bit as to the situation re animal feed here in LOS?

Edited October 31, 2008 by OlRedEyes

[Maizefarmer]

Latest in the melamine saga in China from the BBC.

Chinese melamine scandal widens

The toxic chemical melamine is probably being routinely added to Chinese animal feed, state media has reported.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7701477.stm

Maybe you guys can enlighten us a bit as to the situation re animal feed here in LOS?

A number of points here:

1) Firstly melamine has for many years, and continues to be added to animal feeds in many parts of Asia at production level - deliberately so. Why? - because it "inflates" the protein percentage readings through its interaction with the Nitrogen in the animal feed.

2) Secondly, all imported feed and feed additive sourced from China has to come into Thailand with a Melamine free certificate - without the cert, it is not allowed to clear. The problem here, as it is with so many products in Thailand, is that the animal feed industry is a victim of counterfeiting just as much as Nike and Levi's are! This means what "appears" to be a genuine animal feed product may well be no more than a counterfeited localally made feedstuff - and that means the chances of "fake protein" (melamine) are all the more higher.

3) Its main prevailance in thailand is in: fish feed, pig feed and chicken feed - mostly "grower" mixes - which are purchased by end users because of the tailored "protein" content to stimulate growth.

Having said all that, whats to stop/prevent it from been used in locally produced animals feeds? Nothing - and I can confirm that I have been offered melamine discreately on more than one ocassion to include in feed stuff.

In summary, because a particular feed is imported from China is no indication that it is more or less likely to have melamine in it than a Thai manufactured feed. And notwithstanding this, the fact that counterfeits are so prevalaint on the Thai market (at a rural retail level mostly, where inspection and monitoring is weakest), undermines any policy in place to monitor legit imports and local legit production.

So - where to from here?

Well, a testing kit is now avalible - that is cheap enough for most farmers to afford to invest in. I know nothing about the kit (except that it exsists and be purchased) but will chase my other half up on the subject and report back to the forum in due course.

[slapout]

Maizefarmer; Since this whole thing started we have heard about its use in powered milk and products which use same. You sell milk, is it tested for protein? Is inert material being added in the milk dehydration process which would require melaine to bring protien level back to normal? With the false info on many feed, fertilizer, etc out there in the consumer market place (as per govt. info) why add to baby formula as we, hopefully are not going after gain vs intake with babies? I realize protein levels vary in the normal production process of almost all natural products, so why the introduction of this in the first place ( I am referring to those products for human consumption, not animal feeds)?

[OlRedEyes]

It'd be interesting to figure out for how long this practice has been going on. What long-tern effects this has on consumers' health. I'd imagine that as with the case with eggs, the meat will have lower concentrations of melamine than what is being found in milk (where melamine was added directly - I think), but this will build up over time in the body?

[Maizefarmer]

Maizefarmer; Since this whole thing started we have heard about its use in powered milk and products which use same. You sell milk, is it tested for protein? Is inert material being added in the milk dehydration process which would require melaine to bring protien level back to normal? With the false info on many feed, fertilizer, etc out there in the consumer market place (as per govt. info) why add to baby formula as we, hopefully are not going after gain vs intake with babies? I realize protein levels vary in the normal production process of almost all natural products, so why the introduction of this in the first place ( I am referring to those products for human consumption, not animal feeds)?

Yes - I sell fresh milk to the co-op - and from the co-op it goes to Foremost - who process it, bottle/carton it and sell it onwards to retailers for market/consumer consumption. Is it tested for protein? Yes, it is - and for fat content.

Is melanine added? Not at the farm level, or at the co-op level - there would be not benefit - but at the bottleing/processing level? -mmmm ... I have often wondered what goes on in bottleing plants. I would think not to liquid milk, but powdered milk products are a different story, because p/milk is an essential component in many processed foodstuffs - and one of the crteria for processed foodstuffs is of course, protein level/content.

The introduction in the first place is specifically to artifically raise the "recorded protein level" - it interacts with Nitrogen and appears in protein tests as a higher protein content than is actually the case. You have to specifically go looking for melamine before you find it. The standard processed food protein content test does not recognise the differance between melamine and genuine protein. What makes it easy to introduce is it's powdered nature and solubility in water - hence it has been an easy compound to "sneak" into foodstuffs - and it is cheaper than genuine protein, so theres the financial incentive.

Its all about reducing the production cost of processed foods.

How long has it been going on for?

20 years - at least, if not longer. Dishonest processed food producers have been using it for decades, and have managed to get away with it for so long because the amount they put into foods was never enough to cause acute illness, and therefore no suspicions were raised. Chronic (meaning longterm) illness is another story and my guess is we may start to see at some point as the current generation matures to adulthood, more and more folk displaying the longterms effects of accumulated melamine consumption.

What brought it to light so suddenly a while back was that a Chinese pet food producer went overboard with the quantity added - probably in error - so much so that it caused acute (immediate) illness and effects in some pets. It was at that point that the authorities went testing specifically for melamine - found it, and then started testing everything else, only to find that it was been used in many other processed food products that required a certain protein percentage level as part of the quality control.

Only now, at this point, with it been highlighted, is it been tested for specifically across a whole range of products that previousl;y were not subject to melamine testing.

The human body can handle a certain amount with little apparent effect - like arsenic: it accumulates and accumulates with little apparent effect - then all of sudden the a limit is reached and you the symptoms come to light quickly and agressively - and like arsenic once that point is reached there is very little that can be done to reverse the damage. It stuffs up the renal system.

What are the average persons risks? Pretty small I'd say - at least on the basis of the evidence currently at hand. As said, the accumulative effects take a good few years to manifest themselves - and then only if the accumulated amount exceeds whatever the max limit is (parts per million - and I haven;t a clue what it is) will they come to light - for most folk they will go through life quite ignorant of the fact that they may have accumulated large amounts of melamine, but for those who go over the level, it's not pleasent at all.

[IsaanAussie]

Hi MF,

I read your post on melamine with amazement so I did a bit of a search. I have attached an article from the NYTimes from April last year. I now understand the economic incentive that these unscrupulous people have, 20% of the cost of 1 protein unit per ton. If I had thoughts of delaying making my own feed, this has changed my mind. Thanks for the heads up.

melamine_in_feed.pdf

Isaanaussie

[Maizefarmer]

Good - I'm glad someone has found those comments of practical use.

Making your own feed - always a good idea: both cheaper than buying on the retail market and you'll get better quality if you read up on the subject and tailor the components. Use fish meal/ fish waste as the protein base - probably the best protein base you can get bar none - and its commonly avalible in Thailand (because of the fish processing industry).

Since producing myself my processed feed costs have come down 30% plus - if thats not incentive enough I dont know what is.

[IsaanAussie]

Good - I'm glad someone has found those comments of practical use.

Making your own feed - always a good idea: both cheaper than buying on the retail market and you'll get better quality if you read up on the subject and tailor the components. Use fish meal/ fish waste as the protein base - probably the best protein base you can get bar none - and its commonly avalible in Thailand (because of the fish processing industry).

Since producing myself my processed feed costs have come down 30% plus - if thats not incentive enough I dont know what is.

MF,

Agreed completely. My current sums say I can match the current finisher diet assuming I pay full price for fish meal and less than 2 baht per kg of feed for vitamin and mineral premixes. Well, I could walk into Tescos right now and pay 17 baht a kilo for Pla Nin, sun-dry and grind and still be in front of the 27 baht for fish meal. I hope the blighters breed like anything in my pond.

Isaanaussie

[HorseDoctor]

I've got 2 horses showing urination problems with no other symptoms. We use CP oo1 R Racehorse feed And a Dr Cabel there ASSURES me ther is no melamine, How can I be sure ... Any testing labs that are RELIABLE ? What about that kit?

[Somtham]

Well, I could walk into Tescos right now and pay 17 baht a kilo for Pla Nin, sun-dry and grind and still be in front of the 27 baht for fish meal.

Isaanaussie

The B27 fish meal is 60% protein so you'll pay B45 per kilo of protein whereas the B17 Pla Nin at Tesco will yield about 25% dry weight protein so you'll pay about B68 per kilo of protein plus whatever labor and power you'll need to dry and grind.

The B27 fish meal is the better buy.

rgds

[mellow1]

I imagine that Tilapia ( pla nin) is 17 Baht a kilo because everyone is emptying out their ponds and selling at the same time. A month ago it was 65 Baht a kilo.

I have been reading these Fish Farming threads for quite some time now, and Tilapia was the only one who seemed to of bought an Extruder, dryer, etc,. It seems quite a few of you have now done the same, or do you just mix the ingredients, bake them, sun dry them, and throw them in the water, to watch them sink and dissolve? In which case , how much are you saving in feed cost?

I am also looking for a solution to the high cost of feed, while still being able to provide a healthy diet. What works for you?