Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[a10ams]

While the police are inside the terminal building clearing out the PAD protesters, do you think they could also do something about the taxi vendors in there as well?

[jdinasia]

PM says he ready to talk to Chamlong

Chiang Mai - Prime Minster Somchai Wongsawat said Saturday that he is willing to hold a talk with Chamlong Srimuang, a co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

But he insisted that he will neither dissolve the House or resign.

Source: The Nation - 29 November 2008

Then why talk?

[targaman]

[i have just heard this from a Thai in the office that they are opening fire on the PAD protesters...

My own view is they have it coming, it is not as if they were not warned !!! .. i hope this makes them think twice about accepting 700 THB a risking their lives for a couple of Thais that cannot accept they didnt make it to power!

I hope innocent people are not hurt...

}

I know a personal friend (Farang) who's middle class wife (Thai) if there of her free will.Nobody gave her 700 Baht. She is driven by a sense of fairness for Thais after the raping of the country by Thaksin and his mob.

Perhaps you could back up your claims heard from a policeman? What policeman. One at Suvarnabhumi? I don' think so.

As for your comment "They had it coming."

Unless you live in the bible belt of the USA or are closely related to Ghengis Khan, nobody demonstrating against an openly corrupt system, has it coming."

Leave the Thais to sort out there own form of Democracy I say.

And I shall stick to my knitting. I suggest you stick to boating.

[desi]

What sparked this whole protest was the current government was trying to convene and amend the Constitution and delete those sections that made this type of corruption illegal, and also mandated a 5 year suspension from politics for anybody found guilty.

Furthermore they wanted to do away with the Privy council, which would emasculate the Monarchy and the power it has to grant Amnesties...They wanted the Government to have that power....hence the Thaskin clan and getting a clean slate.

Thank you for your enlightening explanation. I'd heard/read that certain 'powers' were behind PAD, but not the actual details.

I do not agree with the way PAD is going about stopping the government (nor their stance against democracy). But after reading what you wrote, I do agree that something needed to be done to stop this government from amending the Constitution. But... what?

[Koo82]

I do not now any country in the world where there are no protests against the government , if they are allowed to do so . Every country got once a while people going on the street or having a strike or something like that because they do not agree with the government . Only in general , in the most countries police will step in if they cross a certain line . The line here is crossed ... so the police should have stepped in .

The problem is in Thailand the Police will be accused of using violence towards citizens. Too many human right organization members.

Maybe what Police here do better is to arrest street vendors, speeding drivers or any unlucky drivers, to write minutes after traffic accidents. If you call them when you're robbed or killed, they will take a lot longer to arrive or don't arrive at all.

[jdinasia]

Thanks for the clarification - but a question rears it's head, if the government dissolves, and PAD's jobs is done - who'll stand for PM ? I i'm probably incorrectly thinking reps from the PAD movement ?

yes Phazey ... you are incorrect thinking that.

[hungryhippo]

Thanks for the clarification - but a question rears it's head, if the government dissolves, and PAD's jobs is done - who'll stand for PM ? I i'm probably incorrectly thinking reps from the PAD movement ?

Good question, I have no idea however I would not want any PAD people to be in charge of the gov personally. Then again, I'm not Thai so it's not up to me.

Ed: I'm responding the the question of pro PAD people in the future being elected. I know PAD isn't a political party.

Edited November 29, 2008 by hungryhippo

[old wanderer]

PM says he ready to talk to Chamlong

Chiang Mai - Prime Minster Somchai Wongsawat said Saturday that he is willing to hold a talk with Chamlong Srimuang, a co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

But he insisted that he will neither dissolve the House or resign.

Source: The Nation - 29 November 2008

Considering all the paperwork and bother I sure Minister SomChai is too busy to write a resignation, and dissolve the party he heads...However by the time the talks conclude, the court will lift that burden from his weary shoulder, and he can return home to Chang Mail.

[robbo1]

Any idea where I can get a live feed from the airport in english language.

I have been watching what is going on on bbc I cannot say it is live but they keep me up to date what is going on

[bino]

PM says he ready to talk to Chamlong

Chiang Mai - Prime Minster Somchai Wongsawat said Saturday that he is willing to hold a talk with Chamlong Srimuang, a co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

But he insisted that he will neither dissolve the House or resign.

Source: The Nation - 29 November 2008

Probably just got his marching orders from brother-in-law.

[nicktraveller]

UN universal declaration of human rights.

Article 13.

• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
  (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
  Source: United nations website /Overview/rights.html
  
  
  

Really, with just a little google search you could have found that. In most countries its just simply called "Freedom of movement".

I get annoyed by people stating their feelings/beliefs as if they were facts. Just because you "feel" something is true, it doesn't make it true.

Where does it say you have the right to leave via the airport? You're the one mixing feelings and fact, there are many ways of leaving Thailand.

If it annoys you then why do you do it yourself? Hypocrite .

It doesn't say that they have to leave via the airport. But the PAD nonetheless are inhibiting people from leaving the country via the normal and most convenient means (and the only means to move the numbers that are neded at this time of year) and as such and infringing on a human right.

Perhaps you would prefer to argue with the many governments who at the moment are listing travel warnings to Thailand because of its "peaceful protest", if that is what you are trying to argue.

So, why are you calling me a hypocrite? Does that help your argument?

[marshbags]

Furthermore it look like on Tuesday Dec 2, the entire PM party and supporting parties will be banished from politics for 5 years.....WHY??? Corruption, vote buying.

Forgive my ignorance on this subject... I've been wondering about the dissolution, but can't find many comments.

If there is a real possibility of this happening, then why are PAD holding the country hostage now? Why haven't they waited it out, and 'if' by chance it doesn't happen, only then exercise their rights to protest?

They are demanding that the present party in power step down.. but (as stated by the BBC) if they do, due to the overhanging dissolution, there won't be enough time to form a new party (not sure who this works... those who can still run?).

So, it's a forced stalemate for now, with the world watching and waiting for Dec 2. Some (as we know) are an unwilling, captive audience.

I am about to go out, but allow me to answer your question:

Constitution Court yesterday set a Tuesday deadline for its acceptance of closing statements from the three ruling coalition parties - People Power, Chart Thai and Matchima Thipataya - involved in the party-dissolution case.

The court is expected to rule soon, perhaps as early as Wednesday, to dissolve the parties, automatically ending the Somchai administration.

What sparked this whole protest was the current government was trying to convene and amend the Constitution and delete those sections that made this type of corruption illegal, and also mandated a 5 year suspension from politics for anybody found guilty.

Furthermore they wanted to do away with the Privy council, which would emasculate the Monarchy and the power it has to grant Amnesties...They wanted the Government to have that power....hence the Thaskin clan and getting a clean slate.

For these reasons the protesters have refused to stand down, and wait.

Why nobody will get their hands bloody removing the protesters, the government is about to be terminated, so until the situation is clear, who is willing to risk their future on a lame duck PM and party.

Yes it is costing the country now, but the other option to allow Thaskin and clan to return to establish a permanent fiefdom, is way too costly to take the risk. I imagine Thaksin is going a bit nuts trying to direct this from Hong Kong, and nobody is willing to stick their necks out. (I sometimes wonder if the fact the Pojaman was not able to return on the 25th like she planned has also played a part in this.)

If you remember, or bothered to watch closely, the current PM (brother-in-law of Thaskin) was not able to get the support, or votes, until his wife arrived the 2nd day, went in with a shoulder bag looking pretty heavy, and came out empty, then the votes happened.

Hope this answers your questions.

An excellent post, thank you, I just wanted to highlight it to make sure it gets it's fair share of eyeballs.

JxP

Agreed

Nothing in there any reasonable person can disagree with IMHO

marshbags

[magisterludi]

UN universal declaration of human rights.

Article 13.

• (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
  (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
  Source: United nations website /Overview/rights.html
  
  
  

Really, with just a little google search you could have found that. In most countries its just simply called "Freedom of movement".

I get annoyed by people stating their feelings/beliefs as if they were facts. Just because you "feel" something is true, it doesn't make it true.

Where does it say you have the right to leave via the airport? You're the one mixing feelings and fact, there are many ways of leaving Thailand.

If it annoys you then why do you do it yourself? Hypocrite .

hungryhippo: Are you serious? If any group of politically motivated people were allowed to shut down a major international airport we would be living in the cave ages. How about allowing them to shut down electricity for us all? I mean, we can still use candles. In any case, calling someone a hypocrite because they don't think that leaving a country on a canoe is reasonable, doesn't seem very reasonable to me.

[StevieH]

Simple too answer.....when the government leaves, they will leave....

And they are Patriots not mercenaries.

ever hear of that being the last vestige of the coward?

plenty of stupid crap has been perpetrated under the banner of patriotism. cf iraq and afghanistan right now. lump in the falklands too if you like.

[Koo82]

The citizens of this country have the RIGHT to protest against what they perceive as a corrupt, nepotism infected government, the is the defacto product of a convicted and corrupt politician Thaskin Shinnawat.

No one argues about their right to protest but why don't they do it at Sanam Luang or Chatuchak?

I'm not convinced that Khun Thaksin was corrupt. He took chances to become rich (who doesn't want?). He stopped giving money to some people who requested from him for good. Now is the revenge time.

[jfchandler]

To those who keep talking about "water cannons" being used to disperse the PAD protesters....

1. they are usually truck/vehicle mounted, and I'm not sure at all how they could be used on crowds inside the two airport terminals.

2. And even if authorities had a way to use that method in an indoors location, I doubt the AOT folks would be real happy with the interiors of terminal buildings getting soaked and sprayed with what inevitably would be large volumes of water.

If that were to happen, I could imagine it could take a long time to dry the places out and ensure that all the various electronic systems in the terminals had not been water damaged.

[nicktraveller]

No one is preventing anyone from leaving or entering the country... Just the selected airports. And your restriction of freedom of movement and residence is a total stretch.

Do you think so? According to the Bangkok Post, there is 100,000 stranded passengers. The government and airlines are losing alot of money to fly these people out of a military airbase.

How is that not a restriction of movement?

Edited November 29, 2008 by nicktraveller

[old wanderer]

Thanks for the clarification - but a question rears it's head, if the government dissolves, and PAD's jobs is done - who'll stand for PM ? I i'm probably incorrectly thinking reps from the PAD movement ?

Good question, I have no idea however I would not want any PAD people to be in charge of the gov personally. Then again, I'm not Thai so it's not up to me.

The PAD is not a political party, did not run for election, so was not deafeated, and suffering from sour grapes....they saw the corruption in the Thaskin regime, protested, and the military move Thaskin out, but were in-ept at managing or restructuring the political scene, so Thaskin proxies were able to corrupt the process again and take power. Hence the PAD again started these protest 1st against PM Samak, then he fell but nobody could believe the arrogance of putting in Thanskins brother-in-law.

Behind the scenes all the time was the puppet master himself. (Thaksin), who now is on the phone constantly trying to save his game. If he fails, then he is nothing but another corrupt politician, with a jail cell awaiting, and a lot poorer for have raised the bet.

[simon43]

To give you some idea of how these protests are affecting the ordinary foreign tourist, I am just back at my computer after spending the majority of the past 2 days at Phuket Airport, - in my role as a volunteer Tourist Police officer.

Of course, Phuket Airport is open! But the airport is chaotic, both due to the closure of BKK airports and the lack of available flights/seats back to European airports or to KL and Singapore.

There are thousands of stranded tourists, some who have exhausted their funds, some who are old and some with tired children - all trying to get out of Thailand and back to their homes.

Maybe you say 'what's a little delay for them? so what - this is all about fighting for democracy in Thailand etc etc blah blah blah'

The point is - when and if PAD achieves what they purport to be fighting for, there won't be much left to savour!

Do you really think that any of these tourists will return to Thailand in the future? Of course views are biased and tempers short right now. But in 6 months from now, when foreign tourists are planning their long holidays, do you think that Thailand will be on the list as a holiday destination? Dream on!!

By all mean hold peaceful demonstrations. But PAD seems to have totally lost the plot. Their actions will ultimately and detrimentally affect thousands of Thai businesses who operate in the tourism sector.

Don't believe me? Come and talk to the tourists at Phuket Airport who have vowed never to return to Thailand :(

Simon

[hungryhippo]

Perhaps you would prefer to argue with the many governments who at the moment are listing travel warnings to Thailand because of its "peaceful protest", if that is what you are trying to argue.

So, why are you calling me a hypocrite? Does that help your argument?

No I would to prefer to argue your original point that human rights are being broken because you mentioned it multiple times in different posts. If you can't back up the claim then don't make it. The fact that you're trying to argue a different point just shows that you know you're wrong but unwilling to admit it.

It does help my argument because you are one. You said you hate people stretching the truth but look, here you are doing it yourself and other people including me called you out on it.

[whitfield]

PAD wants a fight. The Army and Police do not have the stomach for it in defense of this government.

The only solution would appear to be for Somchai to resign and call fresh elections on conditon that the leaders of PAD face trial for insurrection, or at the very least be barred from standing in the new elections.

If TRT was banned last time then surely there is a precedent for this.

PAD cannot be seen to have caused the fall of the govt with absolutely no consequences. In any case such an election would once again lead to another massive PPP majority

Let's get it over and done with. No bloodshed, it solves nothing and causes massive division. Ask the people of Ulster whether Bloody Sunday helped towards a peaceful solution.

[rick75]

I am not sure how succesful water cannons would be, PAD have control of an Airport if PAD have half a brain between them they have there own water cannons, you know those fire fighing trucks that all airports have.

[nicktraveller]

hungryhippo: Are you serious? If any group of politically motivated people were allowed to shut down a major international airport we would be living in the cave ages. How about allowing them to shut down electricity for us all? I mean, we can still use candles. In any case, calling someone a hypocrite because they don't think that leaving a country on a canoe is reasonable, doesn't seem very reasonable to me.

Thanks. I was feeling alone there!

I just want to make a point that I don't want to be attacking anyone, and this was not meant to be a personal attack against you hungryhippo. I just wanted to set somethings clear on the agenda here.

Because whatever anyones opinion on the PAD, surely if they think clearly they have to agree that the PAD has gone too far by hurting people that are not involved (not just tourists, but many thai, particularly poor who may have adapted their life around the tourist dollar, plus the workers of fresh produce exporters and other commodities)

Edited November 29, 2008 by nicktraveller

[hammered]

PM: People should not to support criminals

Rest of story at : http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=132371

First we have Thaksin telling people to follow the law and now we have his bro-in-law telling people not to support criminals. this really is turning inot Comedy Team Central with the shin clan

[Fore Man]

Has anyone seen the government today? Have they made any statement?

The PM was involved in a good game of golf this morning in Chang Mai

The Police lost a few truckloads of riot gear, when a couple of grandmothers let the air out of the tires.

It is a weekend, so a lot of new protesters come to join the party.

Right now everything is on hold until the court hearing on Tuesday morning. Nobody is going to take a chance on not having a seat to set in when the music stops, and the PPP and other parties are desolved.

For real?!?

Definatly Yes..

Also Gen Chamlong (PAD) stated they were willing to negotiate with the PM anywhere but in Chang Mai. It had to be face to face not over the phone or video conferencing, but face to face....

Please back up your claim that the PM was playing golf today in CM. Do you have visual proof or are you just posturing? Remember that some of us live here in that particular area and may be on-scene witnesses to certain events....such as golf tournaments.

[jfchandler]

I'm not convinced that Khun Thaksin was corrupt.

And you also believe the world is flat not round, and that man landing on the moon was just a hoax, right???

It wasn't PAD who launched a half dozen or so criminal corruption cases again Thaksin.... It was Thai government prosecutors. It wasn't PAD who convicted Thaksin in the first case and sentenced him to two years in jail. It was Thai courts and judges.

[h90]

[i have just heard this from a Thai in the office that they are opening fire on the PAD protesters...

My own view is they have it coming, it is not as if they were not warned !!! .. i hope this makes them think twice about accepting 700 THB a risking their lives for a couple of Thais that cannot accept they didnt make it to power!

I hope innocent people are not hurt...

}

I know a personal friend (Farang) who's middle class wife (Thai) if there of her free will.Nobody gave her 700 Baht. She is driven by a sense of fairness for Thais after the raping of the country by Thaksin and his mob.

Perhaps you could back up your claims heard from a policeman? What policeman. One at Suvarnabhumi? I don' think so.

As for your comment "They had it coming."

Unless you live in the bible belt of the USA or are closely related to Ghengis Khan, nobody demonstrating against an openly corrupt system, has it coming."

Leave the Thais to sort out there own form of Democracy I say.

And I shall stick to my knitting. I suggest you stick to boating.

my middle class wife as well....

[Pakeha]

Any idea where I can get a live feed from the airport in english language.

I have been watching what is going on on bbc I cannot say it is live but they keep me up to date what is going on

Thanks Robbo. We're watching ASTV which is great for the Mrs... but my thai is far from fluent.. she's filling me in but the translation is a bit weird..

[nicktraveller]

Perhaps you would prefer to argue with the many governments who at the moment are listing travel warnings to Thailand because of its "peaceful protest", if that is what you are trying to argue.

So, why are you calling me a hypocrite? Does that help your argument?

No I would to prefer to argue your original point that human rights are being broken because you mentioned it multiple times in different posts. If you can't back up the claim then don't make it. The fact that you're trying to argue a different point just shows that you know you're wrong but unwilling to admit it.

It does help my argument because you are one. You said you hate people stretching the truth but look, here you are doing it yourself and other people including me called you out on it.

No I didn't. Its the first time I've written on this topic. I'm a new member. You must be confusing me with somebody. Welcome!

[wxpwzrd]

No one is preventing anyone from leaving or entering the country... Just the selected airports. And your restriction of freedom of movement and residence is a total stretch.

Do you think so? According to the Bangkok Post, there is 100,000 stranded passengers. The government and airlines are losing alot of money to fly these people out of a military airbase.

How is that not a restriction of movement?

Please, their movements are hindered not restricted. They are not being held hostage by the PAD. And you said it, they are being moved out of the other airbase.