Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[henryalleman]

As a seeker of truth and justice I have stepped back from the emmotive stuff and taken the personalities out of things, and what are you left with,

1.The government are democratically elected and legitimate.

Allowing for the warts and all, there is no international critisism of the government or the election process.

2.The PAD are unelected and self invested.

They draw only from elite society for their support and funding, claim to be democratic, but want to deny the poor a vote.

Internationally the PAD are described as against democracy.

Whether the PAD are terrorists or not in the usual defined ways, they are now percieved as "terrorists " in the international community, especially being the next news item after the Mumbai terrorists.

3.Court decisions in Thailand are dubious to say the least.I would not say they are fair, have to many vested interests, just look at vt7 for an example.

4.Previously the Thai politics were never aired internationally.

The PAD actions have ensured that Thai politics have been headline news for a week now and people around the world who never had a clue about Thai politics , or considered it democratic , now understand the real situation class system that is practised there.

Internationally, people have realise where the "democracy" is and where the "terrorist "is in the thai politics

The international comunity will not stand for the Thai way because they have now been educated as to what it is all really, fundementally about.

5.In conclusion the international community will not allow anarchy to prevail over democracy.

PAD may not be confirmed terrorists at present but they have certainly appeared on the radar of world anti-terrorist organisations.

I have the feeling that you have no access to European TV channels, otherwise you will know that they do mention the vote buying and corruption of the last elections. they mention the corruption cases of Thaksin, they mention that the present government are influenced by Thaksin.

Than you should also know that non of the European TV stations called the PAD demonstrators at Suva terrorists. They all emphasize the unbelievable discipline of the PAD occupiers at Suva. and they show the relax almost carnival atmosphere at Suva.

The blocked European tourists in Thailand don't seems to panic that much about their delay. Of course they don't feel happy with it but they put it in perspective, because they experienced this kind of delays several times in Europe, due to closed airports due to strikes.

you would also noticed that ALL tourists said that they did not experienced any hostility's against Foreigners, and that did not even, noticed any riots.

You would also see that the European TV stations shows the victims of bombs and grenade trowing by red shirts.

All of them give interviews with PAD protesters and almost no interviews with red shirts.

So you can conclude that the European TV stations inform their viewers why the PAD demonstrates.

maybe the PAD have more understanding in Europe than you think.

facepalm the European TV channels

so what monkey channel your are locking, after a monkey cutter, a monkey comera men and a monkey fun channel anchorman here in bangkok had shoout a some footage or just bought it. from an other camera men.

would the on money channel going to confus the monkey with the remote on a sofa. no, you will get your typical monkey channel entertainment. thats all.

you should question youre monkey channel and not here.

Life footage with their own camera crew.

http://www.deredactie.be/cm/de.redactie

[henryalleman]

LOL at PAD on the radar and 'terrorism'

Some of these new folks should come to Thailand, wander out and meet some people (yes, even people in the PAD and UDD) and TALK to them (of course this may require learning Thai in many cases, but it is a small price to pay when seeking after "Truth"

What happens in Thailand is basically up to the Thais. I don't see W sending in the marines to deal with a country's internal political changes and growth.

What so far has put Thailand firmly in the minds of the people that watch these things are how peaceful things have been so far and how much restraint has been showed by the PAD in dealing with being attacked.

As a seeker of truth and justice I wouldn't dream to comment on such matters without about 10 years experience of Thailand, with passport stamps to prove it .

Exactly ! what happens in Thailand should be left to the Thai's, I say left to all the Thai's you say only the elite PAD.

Western democracies all declared the last elections process as fair and reasonable.Live with it.

Yes the BBC correspondant at suva stated the atmosphere was cordial, but that the armed PAD para-militaries were holed up in the basement?

You seems to forget that in the last elections they refused that it was monitored by the EU.

So already that moment we knew that something was dubious about how the elections was organised.

[manzan]

Thaksin's wife bought some land, so he has to go to jail

Samak went on a ff-ing cooking program and he had to step down

PAD occupies the government house, the airports, defy the court rulings, proceedings AGAINST their enemies get hurried up.

didnt PAD commit vote buying to?

yes <deleted> is wrong with this picture?

Yes Thaksin committed abuse of power and was sentenced to 2 years

Samak broke the law and lied too --- BUT could have been PM again.

the PAD has appeals in on any court orders, The courts were ready to move, would you have preferred them to wait until the 8th or so?

No .. the PAD has never bought a single vote. They are not a political party.

Sorry, i meant the democratic party, arent PAD doing all of this on their behalf?

[henryalleman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Al...e_for_Democracy

For those who want to understand a little bit more where the situation comes from but be cautious that is wikipedia

With all due respect, Wikipedia is not reliable for the simple reason that anyone is able to change the the content. Furthermore it has been proven in the past that Wikipedia was manipulated many times in the past.

If you like to form your own opinion its better that you visit as much as possible website who have have different opinions, or look to different TV channels from different countries in several different languages.

[sezze]

A conservative 150 million dollars (over 5 billion THB) per day lost in tourist revenue dollars is sickeningly a horrible price to pay while selling out their beloved country...and lost revenue that may continue for decades.

Wow. What hat did that number come out of ?

150m per day x 365 = 54,750,000,000 per year. Almost 55 billion ("conservative" estimate no less).

That's about 25% more than the government's entire budget for a year apparently ! And would be well over 20% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Which is also amazing, as it seems from other discussions here (on TV) that most figures point to the tourism revenue only representing 6-8% of the GDP.

A link to the source of this (conservative) $150 million per day loss in tourism revenue would be appreciated. I'd like to see how they came up with those numbers.

Yes me too ... i want to see where the numbers come from but the 6/7% figure is also ridiculous low . I'll go and try to find how many people come in the country which is a figure that easily should be found . If you take that number times 3000baht a day then you got a relative good figure i guess ( 3000 bht a day is overal spending , a lot of people spend more including everything rooms etc ) .

50.000 people a day makes 150million baht a day

[Plus]

Danton, just a few days ago Chalerm was cheering Thaksin's people against the courts fight and pledged his full support for his triumphant return, he also advocated use of force to remove PAD from the airports.

Who in his right mind would think that PAD would leave if Chalerm becomes the PM? What's so dishonest about it?

[Gnarpjohan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Al...e_for_Democracy

For those who want to understand a little bit more where the situation comes from but be cautious that is wikipedia

With all due respect, Wikipedia is not reliable for the simple reason that anyone is able to change the the content. Furthermore it has been proven in the past that Wikipedia was manipulated many times in the past.

If you like to form your own opinion its better that you visit as much as possible website who have have different opinions, or look to different TV channels from different countries in several different languages.

Ok, so what are the factual errors in the Wikipedia post about PAD?

[ironhut]

A conservative 150 million dollars (over 5 billion THB) per day lost in tourist revenue dollars is sickeningly a horrible price to pay while selling out their beloved country...and lost revenue that may continue for decades.

Wow. What hat did that number come out of ?

150m per day x 365 = 54,750,000,000 per year. Almost 55 billion ("conservative" estimate no less).

That's about 25% more than the government's entire budget for a year apparently ! And would be well over 20% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Which is also amazing, as it seems from other discussions here (on TV) that most figures point to the tourism revenue only representing 6-8% of the GDP.

A link to the source of this (conservative) $150 million per day loss in tourism revenue would be appreciated. I'd like to see how they came up with those numbers.

Yes me too ... i want to see where the numbers come from but the 6/7% figure is also ridiculous low . I'll go and try to find how many people come in the country which is a figure that easily should be found . If you take that number times 3000baht a day then you got a relative good figure i guess ( 3000 bht a day is overal spending , a lot of people spend more including everything rooms etc ) .

50.000 people a day makes 150million baht a day

70,000 of the 100,000 who come into Thailand daily are tourists. Each stays an estimated 2-3 weeks. So...roughly 1.4 million tourists (non-residents) here on a given day spending $100 per/day for transportation, food, housing, etc.....equates to around 150 million USD per day spent into the Thai economy.

[robee]

Just a wild opinion, I think, maybe, I am no expert, etc.: the court will dissolve the parties today. Somchai will not resign. PAD will stay at the airport past December 5th, maybe past Dec. 15th.

not in support but my opinion as well. PAD will most likely stay for a week maybe 2. no compelling reason to leave and what they have is working for them now.

[henryalleman]

The kids are brought along to the protest because the parent believes that the police or army will not act in an aggressive way towards the demonstrators. A sort of mum and dad type psychology. And someone maybe promoting the idea of bringing children.

But the situation can get out of control very quickly. Once the police give the order to disburse and the order is ignored the next likely action is to fire a volley of shots over the protesters heads, or tear gas. At this point children and the elderly should be moved away as quickly as possible. Within a short period, a second demand maybe (may not be) made to disburse which if ignored will be followed by a baton charge, more shots, and more tear gas.

At that point if children are still in the throng all blame is on the parents. In a volatile situation that turns ugly it is the parent that is responsible for their kids safety, not the police or the army or the government.

Holding the country to ransome is something that cannot be taken lightly and it will come to a head. Which may be sooner rather than later if the constitutional court finds in favour of the PPP.

I guess we will know more by nightfall.

A parent who take his children to demonstrations is not a responsible parent. Children should be playing and be a child as long as possible and not involved in demonstrations.

Also parents with small children should not be involved in actions who could bring their life in danger. Their first and only responsibility is their children.

If they are dedicated to a cause they can do many other things besides demonstrating.

[robee]

Just a wild opinion, I think, maybe, I am no expert, etc.: the court will dissolve the parties today. Somchai will not resign. PAD will stay at the airport past December 5th, maybe past Dec. 15th.

I tend to agree...I wish I didn't though

ditto, and not good for resolution of this situation.

[rainman]

PAD can't leave now. If the people go home, their leaders will get thrown into jail.

[wxpwzrd]

The kids are brought along to the protest because the parent believes that the police or army will not act in an aggressive way towards the demonstrators. A sort of mum and dad type psychology. And someone maybe promoting the idea of bringing children.

But the situation can get out of control very quickly. Once the police give the order to disburse and the order is ignored the next likely action is to fire a volley of shots over the protesters heads, or tear gas. At this point children and the elderly should be moved away as quickly as possible. Within a short period, a second demand maybe (may not be) made to disburse which if ignored will be followed by a baton charge, more shots, and more tear gas.

At that point if children are still in the throng all blame is on the parents. In a volatile situation that turns ugly it is the parent that is responsible for their kids safety, not the police or the army or the government.

Holding the country to ransome is something that cannot be taken lightly and it will come to a head. Which may be sooner rather than later if the constitutional court finds in favour of the PPP.

I guess we will know more by nightfall.

A parent who take his children to demonstrations is not a responsible parent. Children should be playing and be a child as long as possible and not involved in demonstrations.

Also parents with small children should not be involved in actions who could bring their life in danger. Their first and only responsibility is their children.

If they are dedicated to a cause they can do many other things besides demonstrating.

You ARE talking about the same parents that shuffle their kids on motorbikes with three or four on a seat without helmets, right? Seems like that is a little more dangerous than these reasonably peaceful protests.

[henryalleman]

The kids are brought along to the protest because the parent believes that the police or army will not act in an aggressive way towards the demonstrators. A sort of mum and dad type psychology. And someone maybe promoting the idea of bringing children.

But the situation can get out of control very quickly. Once the police give the order to disburse and the order is ignored the next likely action is to fire a volley of shots over the protesters heads, or tear gas. At this point children and the elderly should be moved away as quickly as possible. Within a short period, a second demand maybe (may not be) made to disburse which if ignored will be followed by a baton charge, more shots, and more tear gas.

At that point if children are still in the throng all blame is on the parents. In a volatile situation that turns ugly it is the parent that is responsible for their kids safety, not the police or the army or the government.

Holding the country to ransome is something that cannot be taken lightly and it will come to a head. Which may be sooner rather than later if the constitutional court finds in favour of the PPP.

I guess we will know more by nightfall.

A parent who take his children to demonstrations is not a responsible parent. Children should be playing and be a child as long as possible and not involved in demonstrations.

Also parents with small children should not be involved in actions who could bring their life in danger. Their first and only responsibility is their children.

If they are dedicated to a cause they can do many other things besides demonstrating.

You ARE talking about the same parents that shuffle their kids on motorbikes with three or four on a seat without helmets, right? Seems like that is a little more dangerous than these reasonably peaceful protests.

yes I include them

[sezze]

PAD can't leave now. If the people go home, their leaders will get thrown into jail.

If however they keep waiting till they got the power , then they change the law so that they do not have to go to jail ... sound pretty familiar

[Guest Bellini]

It's a bit late now, but general Chamlong was saying last night that PAD never "seized" the airport. They went out there to protest the PM's arrival...

Is this why it is impossible to make even a wild guess as to when Suvarnabhumi airport will reopen? First, the PAD said they blocked the airport "to protest the PM's arrival". Then they said they would continue the blockade until the PM resigned. Then I read in a newspaper that they would continue until a new PM acceptable to the PAD is installed. Now, a moment ago, I read in a news clipping on ThaiVisa that they will continue until all cabinet members have resigned. And after that? All we can do is wait and see what new conditions will be imposed.

[Danton]

Danton, just a few days ago Chalerm was cheering Thaksin's people against the courts fight and pledged his full support for his triumphant return, he also advocated use of force to remove PAD from the airports.

Who in his right mind would think that PAD would leave if Chalerm becomes the PM? What's so dishonest about it?

So fuc_king what. Itd's calle democracy.

BTW I despise Chalerm and his offsprings as much as you do.

[chrislarsson]

Danton, just a few days ago Chalerm was cheering Thaksin's people against the courts fight and pledged his full support for his triumphant return, he also advocated use of force to remove PAD from the airports.

Who in his right mind would think that PAD would leave if Chalerm becomes the PM? What's so dishonest about it?

So fuc_king what. Itd's calle democracy.

BTW I despise Chalerm and his offsprings as much as you do.

This sets such a bad precedence for the future. Regardless of government...a part of the population will always oppose it. Now all they have to do is to stage peaceful protests at some selected airports, demand that the government resigns, and sit and wait until they get things their way.

What future does a country have, where large parts of the intellectual population believe that this behavior is ok?

[rack201]

What future does a country have, where large parts of the intellectual population believe that this behavior is ok?

...could not have said it better myself.

Edited December 2, 2008 by rack201

[digitele]

PAD can't leave now. If the people go home, their leaders will get thrown into jail.

Oh no they won't. C'mon try to keep up!

[anothertorres]

ya know what would be cool right now? if the PAD left the airports. just my opinion tho...

[sezze]

ya know what would be cool right now? if the PAD left the airports. just my opinion tho...

I like the idea from day 1 . Don't bet on it .

[plachon]

Can we get a mod to rename this thread? With the high literate rates here, Protest is inappropriate by definition.

Some suggestions:

-Illegal occupation of Suvarnabhumi continues-

-Terrorist occupation of Suvarnabhumi continues-

-State sponsered illegal occupation of Suvarnabhumi continues-

-State sponsered terrorist occupation of Suvarnabhumi continues-

Reader submissions are welcomed!

You'd obviously feel right at home in China or North Korea.

What do you mean "protest is inappropriate by definition"? I've never heard anything so nonsensical and idiotic in my life, unless one approves of authoritarian states where protest is not allowed. That's fine if that's what floats your boat (and it was the way Thaksin was taking Thailand), but it is not my definition of the type of country one could call "democratic".

Sometimes, during regime change, drastic actions are required which may cause inconvenience and temporary instability as the outgoing regime uses violence and underhand tactics to prolong their hold on power. It's a bit like killing a snake - until it's head is chopped off it will tend to thrash around biting at all and sundry. Even a decapitated snake is not without danger and can snap at objects nearby. This Thaksin/TRT/PPP snake is still very much in the thrashing and dangerous stage and needs careful handling to make safe.

[regfrancis]

Name of thread:

THAILAND CONTINUES TO BE HELD TO RANSOM BY LOSING PARTY'S DISRUPTIONS

[anothertorres]

if this were China, the PAD would've been shut down, most likely violently the minute they tried to take over the airport and no one would know anything had ever happened

[GizmoBKK]

just received this bangkokpost sms and am speechless:

PAD will continue to occupy Suvarnabhumi even though court dissolved PPP, Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya. PAD claims Thaksin's proxy would still run govt.

how ignorant can these people be? is sondhi's objective to ruin this country?

[barryjohnson]

PAD can't leave now. If the people go home, their leaders will get thrown into jail.

Don'r be so naive.

PAD is the hero of the country. They may be awarded the highest honor of this country. Prepared to address them as Sir & Lady.

[GizmoBKK]

and in this minute the next bangkokpost sms:

PAD accepted AOT's demand to allow incoming flights to use Suvarnabhumi after Constitution Court dissolved PPP. First incoming flight expected within 24 hrs.

we will see.

[digitele]

-Illegal occupation of Suvarnabhumi continues-

-Terrorist occupation of Suvarnabhumi continues-

-State sponsered illegal occupation of Suvarnabhumi continues-

-State sponsered terrorist occupation of Suvarnabhumi continues-

Reader submissions are welcomed!

You'd obviously feel right at home in China or North Korea.

<deleted>?

idiotic in my life, unless one approves of authoritarian states where protest is not allowed.

Sometimes, during regime change, drastic actions are required which may cause inconvenience and temporary instability as the outgoing regime uses violence and underhand tactics to prolong their hold on power.

Peaceful protests are good, the very essence of democracy. North Korea, China? You are warped; read what you wrote:

It's a bit like killing a snake - until it's head is chopped off it will tend to thrash around biting at all and sundry. Even a decapitated snake is not without danger and can snap at objects nearby. This Thaksin/TRT/PPP snake is still very much in the thrashing and dangerous stage and needs careful handling to make safe.

Please don't skip you medications any longer. There are in the pocket of your yellow shirt.

[ukrules]

From http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

PAD Leaders to Meet Tonight to Discuss PAD's Next Move

UPDATE : 2 December 2008

The People's Alliance for Democracy has cheered and clapped wildly after the Constitution Court had ruled this morning to disband the People Power party. The leaders are scheduled to meet tonight to discuss the PAD's next move.

The People's Alliance for Democracy protesters are to remain at Don Muang and Suvarnabhumi airports even after the court has ruled to disband the People Power party. The PAD hosts have told the protesters that their fight isn't over even after the brief victory this morning.

The next step is for the MPs to convene to nominate a new premier. With most People Power party MPs escaping the political ban, they will most likely vote for another People Power party sponsored candidate. Some of the names which could be nominated to replace former PM Somchai Wongsawat are Chalerm Yoobamrung and Mingkwan Saengsuwan.

Edited December 2, 2008 by ukrules