Electrical Sockets/receptacles

[longball53098]

Hey all,

I wanted to change out some 2 wire ungrounded sockets and run new wire and install 3 wire sockets. I have heard people say that Bticino is a good choice. This was my first experience with this brand of product. So far I'm not impressed.

I bought a box of 10 model M9025G from Global house along with the associated boxes and coverplates needed.

Went back to the site and proceeded to do the install of the sockets.

The install complete. All wiring and voltage checks done its time for the real test.

I reached for the first 3 prong plug I had to try the socket. I had great difficulty inserting the plug. After some manipulating the plug it finally inserted. I tried again on the same socket. Same issue. Moved to the others and found out of 5 duplex sockets at least 3 were very difficult to insert the plug. One was so bad I changed it out with another new one.

Since then I have done some looking at the sockets a little closer here at home under a magnifying glass. I took one apart to see what's up.

The sockets I bought are a version called Majic Advance line model M9025G. This is a duplex 250v 16A grounded socket. It appears in many of their brochures. It shows a "child proof" feature that says only an actual plug can be inserted. It is also called a "universal" socket.

From my investigation at home it appears that the child proofing feature is most to blame for the plugs not inserting easily. I tested various plugs both 2 and 3 prong. Of the remaining sockets I have (5) 3 were not easy to insert a plug. You have to jiggle and play around to get the plug in.

After disassembly I can see the child proof device is a plastic module that is spring loaded and should open when any proper plug is pushed into the socket but if only one side is pushed such as if a kid were to try to push a screwdriver blade into the socket the device is designed to essentially lock the socket preventing the device from opening. A proper plug will push equally on both sides of the device allowing the sliding internal mechanism to open and allow the plug into the socket.

It would seem this device is not foolproof enough and does not open every time a plug is push in. At least on the ones I bought.

So with all of this said and done. I will be building a house soon and buying numerous sockets.

Does anyone out there, especially Crossy or Elkangrito have any input into what is the best choice for sockets?

All input to this question is valuable

Thanks

[dotcom]

I like these new National Panasonic brand. They are white & don't become yellow with age like the previous ones did.

Accept virtually all the plugs you will come across.

Cheers.

btw - that's in my kitchen & thus the water resistant cover.

Edited December 2, 2008 by dotcom

[Crossy]

Yup ^^^ ours are all National, never an issue with any type of plug even the ones with skinny round pins.

BUT

They do not have the finger-proof device.

In my (somewhat limited) experience any two pin outlet with a shutter tends to be difficult to insert unless you get the plug aligned absolutely right, I suspect that the 'universal' outlets would be even more fun.

I'd limit the shuttered outlets to those accessible to small fingers and use unshuttered National ones elsewhere.

[dotcom]

You can by plastic "plugs" in bags of 10 to prevent children's fingers going in.

If you want the shuttered type National make those too but expect the exact same problems you are facing now.

[longball53098]

From those great , quick responses I guess I picked up ones I really don't need. No issues with any kids or others sticking the wrong thing in the sockets. I want good, reliable sockets. I will have to examine the others now a little closer.

[kamalabob2]

Before we selected sockets and switches for our Up Country Home I met with a representative of Panasonic in Bangkok and he explained the different "lines" or "series" of commonly available Thailand manufactured Panasonic plugs and switches along with the designer COSMO ART series from Panasonic. He had previously mailed me a catalog in the mail, but I requested a demonstration to see the difference in the different series of Panasonic sockets and switches.

I also met with the importer of Chinese made, Siemens LICENSED sockets and plugs at the headquarters of the Sangchai Group in Bangkok.

I also purchased a few CLIPSAL and BTICINO sockets and light switches. We then had our electrician "wire" all four brands of grounded sockets with the same size electrical wires we have in our home. This TEST of wiring was on a table to see the connections, not inside the metal wall electric boxes. There was no comparison in the quality of the construction and the strength in the wire connection. The Panasonic WEG15929 wide series grounded socket and the Panasonic WEG 15829 grounded socket with SAFETY SHUTTER were the logical choice due to construction, design and price. For wall switches Panasonic also had the best value and secure wire connections. From most expensive to least expensive Panasonic has 5 series that I viewed in Thailand: COSMO ART, REFINA full color wide, NEO LINE, and the full-color series. We selected primarily the Neo line and an INDEPENDENT ELECTRICAL WHOLESALE supplier gave our builder the lowest price from the five vendors we priced. The builder made out a specific list of every socket and switch we needed and got back in writing price quotes from 5 vendors. The ONLY socket in our home that had a shock was the ONE sample Siemens socket installed under a counter. The Dishwasher was giving off shocks and once the appliance repair person checked the electric socket it was obvious the ground wire had come loose. None of the Panasonic sockets or switches have malfunctioned. If you "weigh" in your hands different brands of sockets in a store electric isle you can see and feel the difference in the materials. The Panasonic sockets and switches seem better at resisting scratches than the other brands.

Clipsal is owned by Schneider and has some beautiful light switch series, but they were out of my price range. I bought some discontinued BTICINO "photo frame" light switches for my daughters room and this company has some interesting designs of light switches in all price ranges.

One thing that has been very useful is to have at least one ILLUMINATED switch in each "gang" or "set" of light switches on the wall of every room, especially bathrooms and bedrooms. If you select WHITE sockets and switches you will save a good percentage from any colors.

[longball53098]

Excellent report on how you decided what product to use

Thanks bob2

[Crossy]

Excellent report on how you decided what product to use

Thanks bob2

Seconded ^^^ thanks Bob

[Deke]

Is there any reason why outlets in Thailand are normally installed horizontally instead of vertically?

[Crossy]

Is there any reason why outlets in Thailand are normally installed horizontally instead of vertically?

The idea is so that even with a two pin plug inserted, a conductive item (knife) dropping between the outlet and plug is less likely to contact live and neutral together (which would lead to a large splat and the lights going out).

[Deke]

Is there any reason why outlets in Thailand are normally installed horizontally instead of vertically?

The idea is so that even with a two pin plug inserted, a conductive item (knife) dropping between the outlet and plug is less likely to contact live and neutral together (which would lead to a large splat and the lights going out).

Makes sense as a legacy thing I guess. With grounded plugs though, I suppose the knife could just as easily contact live and ground.

[Crossy]

Makes sense as a legacy thing I guess. With grounded plugs though, I suppose the knife could just as easily contact live and ground.

Good point, all my outlets are horizontal with live at the top (ground right) wheras it would be more sensible to have neutral at the top (ground left) so your knife would only hit neutral and ground.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Crossy

[Deke]

Good point, all my outlets are horizontal with live at the top (ground right) wheras it would be more sensible to have neutral at the top (ground left) so your knife would only hit neutral and ground.

When I build my house I think I'll install mine vertically, just to be different.

[Crossy]

Good point, all my outlets are horizontal with live at the top (ground right) wheras it would be more sensible to have neutral at the top (ground left) so your knife would only hit neutral and ground.

When I build my house I think I'll install mine vertically, just to be different.

Why not, but make sure ground is at the top

Edited December 2, 2008 by Crossy

[tjo o tjim]

Good point, all my outlets are horizontal with live at the top (ground right) wheras it would be more sensible to have neutral at the top (ground left) so your knife would only hit neutral and ground.

When I build my house I think I'll install mine vertically, just to be different.

Why not, but make sure ground is at the top

Crossy-- Are UK plugs ever installed ground pin up? It is the standard practice for hospitals in the US, and is preferred practice for many other facilities.

[dotcom]

Yep. A double socket is horizontal & ground is up.

[Crossy]

Crossy-- Are UK plugs ever installed ground pin up? It is the standard practice for hospitals in the US, and is preferred practice for many other facilities.

UK outlets are (almost) always installed ground up. In this position the cord hangs vertically down parallel to the wall.

[Artisi]

When I finally build I will more than likely import plugs and power outlets from Aust. - these have very postive plug /socket engagement and even at 30 -40 years old can still be fully functional, plus no little fingers can reach the contacts and only very narrow impliments can gain access to the internals, - even some test screw-drivers can't fit , makes then very safe round kids (and some adults)

[Crossy]

When I finally build I will more than likely import plugs and power outlets from Aust. - these have very postive plug /socket engagement and even at 30 -40 years old can still be fully functional, plus no little fingers can reach the contacts and only very narrow impliments can gain access to the internals, - even some test screw-drivers can't fit , makes then very safe round kids (and some adults)

A thought, can you buy re-wireable plugs in Oz?? (I have a feeling you cannot). Otherwise you may have issues actually plugging anything in

Ideally you should use outlets to TIS166-2549 (2006) the new Thai standard, but I've never seen an outlet of this style on sale

IF I was to use a 'foreign' outlet I would be tempted to go with the Euro style 'Schuko', shuttered and very positive in action. The regular round pin plugs also fit so only need adaptors for any appliances with flat pin plugs. Additionally both plugs and outlets are available in Thailand. UK BS1363 would come a close second, but you've got to go to Malaysia to get the plugs and sockets.

Whatever you do, I don't think you'll be able to go all 'foreign', using adaptors for visitors appliances is likely more of a hazard than having the local outlets.

Finally, ALL outlets need to be protected by an ELCB / GFI / RCD / RCCB / Saf-T-Cut device.

EDIT I've just checked our "Haco" brand outlets, local 2 and 3 pin outlets as well as the Schuko ones are shuttered and won't open if a single pin (such as a screwdriver) is inserted, pretty darn safe

Edited January 12, 2009 by Crossy

[Artisi]

Crossy, thanks - I will look into the new local socket / plugs next time in Thailand.

You can buy quality re-wireable plugs in Aust. and there are quality Aust 3 pin to other plug style adaptors available.

But guess sourcing local if good quality is a plus.

Any switch board I have installed will be with all "bells and whistles" as I have a great respect for electricity.

[Crossy]

Any switch board I have installed will be with all "bells and whistles" as I have a great respect for electricity.

Absolutely, and safety does not have to cost the earth, 99% of what you'll need is available here you just have to know where to look

We're not looking for full compliance with BS7671 2008 (that's the IEE Regulations 17^th Edition) just something that is not going to kill you directly or catch fire (and kill you). IMHO the IEE regs have now gone way over the top in an attempt to protect Joe Public (IQ 0.0001) from himself.

If you've not already, have a dekko here http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/ particularly the stuff on consumer units and cable sizes.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Crossy

[Artisi]

Crossy,

I have already studied your site in great detail, it is certainly a wealth of information plus it answered the question I have had for quiet awhle regarding connecting earth to neutral - MEN - now clear and understood.

[technocracy]

I installed the Panasonic Wide sockets through out my house (well except for where Schukos were needed) and ALL have the safety flaps. In general I have to say they have been excellent - the flaps are a bit hard to open when new but once they've been used a bit they loosen up slight making it easy to insert plugs.

I went for the Metallic Grey outer plastic with the dark grey sockets - they do look very nice with it . . . however from experience not everywhere up country stocks these colours so if you end up a few short they take an age to get them back in stock.

[dotcom]

On a related topic. A couple of plugs I picked up recently.

The LeGrand plug is not cheap at 120 baht each but for some of us safety trumps cost. I am kee neow believe me but I tired of roasting plugs on my toaster oven.

The other one is a cheap plug I picked up at the mall. It's a clone of the new "thai standard" which I have yet to see implemented & HAVE NEVER SEEN THESE NEW "THAI STANDARD" plugs for sale. This one is 2 pin - no ground & no polarity.

Morons.

[mdechgan]

I like the national brand because they seem to be the standard here in Thailand. However those btcino ones do look nice and new.

[innerspace]

One thing to take note of after the hard work of installing earthed sockets - Are your cables properly earthed?

I recently had a standard computer power cable with a wobbling earth pin.

Upon breaking the pin off I discovered it was only attached by a rubber groove in the plug.

Explains why I still got shocks from the computer - why even add a 3rd pin if its not doing anything?!?

[dotcom]

Excellent point.

Crossy once posed a riddle. Tell the difference between these 2 power strips?

One was fed by a 2 pin plug & the other by a 3 pin plug. Both had 3 pin sockets.

You're right, some computers come with cheap ass power cables that aren't worth hog tying a pig. BIN them.

I buy Enermax power supplies & they come with high quality mains cables.

[Crossy]

This is the Schuko plug I removed from a PC power cable in order to fit a local plug.

Spot the deliberate mistake.

Answers on a postcard to ....

[longball53098]

What's with the multi conductors in the cable? Should only have 3 in my opinion,,,,hot, neutral and earth

[Crossy]

What's with the multi conductors in the cable? Should only have 3 in my opinion,,,,hot, neutral and earth

Good innit

The cores were connected 2 to a pin. The cable is some sort of control / communications cable almost certainly not rated for mains use (it had no ratings printed on it).

I'd been using it for some while, safe in my ignorance of the contents of that black moulded plug. It is no longer in use although the multi-core cable has been placed in the 'useful bits of cable' box