Thai Political Parties Dissolved

[jayjayjayjay]

I assume weirdsok was talking about TRT/PPP dissolution cases, not 2001. During Thaksin's years only Administrative Court had any sort of independence.

Then there was memorable address to the courts in May 2006, telling them to put their shit together, because MOST of the problems here are of judicial, not political nature.

Look at all the reasons to kick up PAD protests - fraud, corruption, share concealment, vote buying, falsifying papers - it has nothing to do with policies or ideology whatsoever. If they, starting from Thaksin, just got on with governing the country none of the protests would have happened at all.

First I repeat my question:

"Why don't you show us any proof of the alleged corruption by ~snip n' past~ Thaksin bribing off judges in 2001 share concealement case" Come on, tell us.

Second, none of the above accusations have been ajudicated by courts, the only one that has been was a 5:4 ruling! I would say there is a highly emotive issue that could and should not be judged by Thai's. A 9:4 split indicates this was a very grey area! I think the only way any of these could be judged is by having a team of westerners from a truely democratic country to be Supreme, Administrative or Constitutional judges. Does that mean I don't trust the Thai court system, absolutely, much the same I don't trust politicians or civil service officials. That's why I like systems that generate the greatest benefit for everyone, and that is what the Taksin regime did.

[Koo82]

Thai PBS showing a group of people in GREEN T-shirts marching and protesting through the fields of Phichit in northern Thailand.

Will there be any colour left that is free of political meaning by the end of the month?

Hope they give black a miss or I'll have to buy a new wardrobe.

Brown, blue & purple are proper now. But purple is the gay color in Thailand.

Orange is a merge from yellow and red so this is a no

[Old Man River]

From the Bangkok Post;

"Police have begun to check on the finances of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and will launch legal action should any criminal accusations be filed against the group's leaders".

I would hope that they follow through with the follow the money plan. I would guess that some naive farangs will be unpleasantly surprised.

You are assuming that there was a bank account specifically styled "PAD". I doubt it, since it is not a judicial person. Following the money on this one will be impossible.

[Plus]

First I repeat my question:

"Why don't you show us any proof of the alleged corruption by ~snip n' past~ Thaksin bribing off judges in 2001 share concealement case" Come on, tell us.

Do you really want me to dig up a public admission from a former judge that ambassador position was offered to his son in exchange for a not guilty verdict?

Or an admission that judges were afraid to rule guilty because of the threatening crowds outside the courtroom.

I have no idea why are you asking me for such common knowledge.

If you want to argue that 2001 ruling was squeaky clean - please say it, I won't be wasting my time on lost causes like that.

[Old Man River]

From the Bangkok Post;

"Police have begun to check on the finances of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and will launch legal action should any criminal accusations be filed against the group's leaders".

I would hope that they follow through with the follow the money plan. I would guess that some naive farangs will be unpleasantly surprised.

You are assuming that there was a bank account specifically styled "PAD". I doubt it, since it is not a judicial person. Following the money on this one will be impossible.

Further to my comments above, I have just done a quick check. In Thailand, donations were made either to ASTV or the Yam Fao Pan Din Foundation. I would think major donations would have been made to ASTV. While it may be possible to subpeona ASTV's books, it would also open a virtual mine field of court actions. Also, given the rumored support for the PAD, I doubt anyone will want to go there anyway.

[Old Man River]

First I repeat my question:

"Why don't you show us any proof of the alleged corruption by ~snip n' past~ Thaksin bribing off judges in 2001 share concealement case" Come on, tell us.

Do you really want me to dig up a public admission from a former judge that ambassador position was offered to his son in exchange for a not guilty verdict?

Or an admission that judges were afraid to rule guilty because of the threatening crowds outside the courtroom.

I have no idea why are you asking me for such common knowledge.

If you want to argue that 2001 ruling was squeaky clean - please say it, I won't be wasting my time on lost causes like that.

It took me less than one minute to find the article below. There are, of course, many others that support what you said. I think JJJJ can find it if he really wants to.

http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article-sout...?parentid=15837

[Ricardo]

Orange is a merge from yellow and red so this is a no

Perhaps it might be reserved, for a future & much-needed reconciliation party/government ?

[jayjayjayjay]

First I repeat my question:

"Why don't you show us any proof of the alleged corruption by ~snip n' past~ Thaksin bribing off judges in 2001 share concealement case" Come on, tell us.

Do you really want me to dig up a public admission from a former judge that ambassador position was offered to his son in exchange for a not guilty verdict?

Or an admission that judges were afraid to rule guilty because of the threatening crowds outside the courtroom.

I have no idea why are you asking me for such common knowledge.

If you want to argue that 2001 ruling was squeaky clean - please say it, I won't be wasting my time on lost causes like that.

It took me less than one minute to find the article below. There are, of course, many others that support what you said. I think JJJJ can find it if he really wants to.

http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article-sout...?parentid=15837

"Mr Wasant, he said, told him he should say Mr Thaksin did not intend to hide his assets, but he disagreed.

``I based my decision on democratic and political science principles. I said Mr Thaksin was not in the wrong because I saw that as many as 11 million people had given him a political mandate."

From your own article. The judge made his own decision and until today there has been no prosection of any sort. If the judges had found Taksin guilty then it would have been a good thing, Taksin would have learnt his first lesson in politics and maybe made him a better PM if/or he returned. The facts still stand that the assets case was a watershed time in democracy for Thailand, and is likely the reason we are where we are today. But it still remains that no judge or corrupt person has been found guilty for bribery in this assets concealment case! Why not?

[Tex79]

The question of how only one man can create this turmoil in society from so far away can be answered when considering the the power of money. Thais should teach their children to value another things other than money or the situation may repeat again and again.

Agreed, the Thaksin crew are corrupt and his power evolved around money...mostly money for him and his family...and this has caused the PAD to do what they have done...very sad but true

Edited December 4, 2008 by Tex79

[Samuian]

.......edited...

The situations taking place might stop Thaksin from getting a pardon.

The question of how only one man can create this turmoil in society from so far away can be answered when considering the the power of money. Thais should teach their children to value another things other than money or the situation may repeat again and again.

thumbs up, I second that!

For now he won't stop at nothing, unless he is stopped... my 2 cents..

[samgrowth]

Who is this guy Giles Ji Ungpakorn, political science professor at Chulalongkorn University . Is he Thai or Farang? He is so anti PAD.

http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/2008/12/02/a-sec...he-rich-5149391

Edited December 4, 2008 by samgrowth

[animatic]

.......edited...

The situations taking place might stop Thaksin from getting a pardon.

The question of how only one man can create this turmoil in society from so far away can be answered when considering the the power of money. Thais should teach their children to value another things other than money or the situation may repeat again and again.

thumbs up, I second that!

For now he won't stop at nothing, unless he is stopped... my 2 cents..

Ditto. Cut 'em off at the past!

Kuhn Giles is very anti-pad and pro status quo, but with country side leanings.

In the 70's he's lucky he wasn't on a anti communist hit list.

He is a proto-typical intellectual professor at the universities here.

He likely would be some Politically Correct Icon in the USA.

And in France an Arch-Socialist Icon.

Love that Socialist Workers big Fist logo of his.

Edited December 4, 2008 by animatic

[TAWP]

Who is this guy Giles Ji Ungpakorn, political science professor at Chulalongkorn University . Is he Thai or Farang? He is so anti PAD.

http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/2008/12/02/a-sec...he-rich-5149391

He is a paranoid communist (self-proclaimed socialist) that hates HRM and therefor takes any chance he can to throw dirt in some directions. And since the former TRT with Thaksin at it's helm worked against the real Head of State, presumable to become it himself...Giles sees PAD as a threat. And therefor he takes the 'enemy of my enemy' approach to TRT/PPP.

[blaze]

[

``I based my decision on democratic and political science principles. I said Mr Thaksin was not in the wrong because I saw that as many as 11 million people had given him a political mandate."

THat one statement is memorable- it reveals an attitude in the judiciary that MAY be still present- that principles of law take a back seat to 'what is expected'. We can hope that with one famous speech- this attitude which has been around as long as there has been a formal judiciary in this country- has changed. But until we see friends as well as perceived enemies of the highest echelons dealt with equally harshly- the jury's still out.

Edited December 4, 2008 by blaze

[sriracha john]

Who is this guy Giles Ji Ungpakorn, political science professor at Chulalongkorn University . Is he Thai or Farang? He is so anti PAD.

http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/2008/12/02/a-sec...he-rich-5149391

He is a paranoid communist (self-proclaimed socialist) that hates HRM and therefor takes any chance he can to throw dirt in some directions. And since the former TRT with Thaksin at it's helm worked against the real Head of State, presumable to become it himself...Giles sees PAD as a threat. And therefor he takes the 'enemy of my enemy' approach to TRT/PPP.

colpyat was just being disingenuous when he asked the question.

[warfie]

Who is this guy Giles Ji Ungpakorn, political science professor at Chulalongkorn University . Is he Thai or Farang? He is so anti PAD.

http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/2008/12/02/a-sec...he-rich-5149391

He is a paranoid communist (self-proclaimed socialist) that hates HRM and therefor takes any chance he can to throw dirt in some directions. And since the former TRT with Thaksin at it's helm worked against the real Head of State, presumable to become it himself...Giles sees PAD as a threat. And therefor he takes the 'enemy of my enemy' approach to TRT/PPP.

colpyat was just being disingenuous when he asked the question.

who is "colpyat" and why do you think he/she was being disingenuous?

[Kerryd]

colpyat was just being disingenuous when he asked the question.

D@mn you're good at that !

It takes me ages to compare posting styles and dig up repeated references and such.

(I'll bet there were/are a whole bunch more that popped back in during these last few days.)

[Wiresok]

From the Bangkok Post;

"Police have begun to check on the finances of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and will launch legal action should any criminal accusations be filed against the group's leaders".

I would hope that they follow through with the follow the money plan. I would guess that some naive farangs will be unpleasantly surprised.

Well I would like to see that as well. My wife took quite a bit of her money and donated to PAD>..

Course it is her money not mine, but it will show up with my Farang last name....

When I have asked her how much she sent, she just replies .....not enough...they not fix the window at ASTV yet. Maybe I send a few thousand baht more.

Oh how fantastic...nice to be in such a position to be able to donate to the PAD.

However they have to pay for the "armed PAD paramilitary somehow " !

How fascinating... but yet redistribution of wealth to the Issan poor is "electoral fraud"

I am sure the issaan poor would love to hear what you have to tell them about welfare states.

[Wiresok]

Announcement Number 20/2008

People's Alliance for Democracy

On "New Politics"

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has been gathering continuously to protect the Constitution to prevent it from being used as a tool in laundering the wrongdoings of Thaksin Shinawatra and his associates, to eradicate the Thaksin regime, to chase out the proxy government, and to pave the way for new politics in the Kingdom of Thailand.

For unity and clarity of the rally, the PAD wants to announce the direction of new politics for the Kingdom of Thailand as follows:

1. The current political system should be condemned as electioneers monopolize electoral constituencies and businesspeople. Vote-buying and electoral fraud exist through using local influence to threaten the public. State authority is abused and money is used to win elections at all costs on the weakness and corrupt activities of some Election Commission officials, who cannot ensure a fair and just election.

With elections riddled with fraud and vote-buying, Thai politics has turned into "money politics." Politicians have to pay back to their sponsors through corruption, violation of the law, and violation of the oath they gave to His Majesty the King when they took office. They sell their country as was seen from how this administration violated the Constitution, as ruled by the Constitution Court, in signing the joint communiqué which allowed Cambodia to register Preah Vihear Temple as a World Heritage Site by itself. They seek benefits for themselves and their cronies and abuse the Parliamentary system by utilizing their majority vote to support the ruling coalition in unethical endeavors, turning Parliament into a dictatorship of capitalism.

As most politicians in the system strive to seek benefits for themselves and their cronies, the checks and balance system from the judiciary, the media, and the public are damaged, destroyed, and threatened.

The judiciary system has been damaged and destroyed through the transfer of state officials to put politicians' associates into power. The Administrative and Legislative branches have jointly tried to amend the Constitution to lower the authority of the judiciary and the checks and balance system. Corrupt politicians try to bribe the judiciary system. The media sees interference. People who are exercising their rights to gather against the government have been injured by the police and thugs backed by the government. All of this contribute to the efforts to destroy the country's checks and balance system to cover up the evil of politicians. Attempts also exist to lessen the power of the monarchy for absolute control by politicians.

Even if politicians resign or a House dissolution occurs, Thai politics will continue in this vicious cycle if no efforts are made to reform it.

For a sustainable future of the country, the PAD sees that it is necessary for new politics in the Kingdom of Thailand.

2. New politics for the Kingdom of Thailand is true democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy with the following goals:

2.1 Support for good people to manage the country and blocking of evil people from coming to power so all sectors of society are ensured justice.

2.2 The public must be allowed participation in politics. New politics will not only see politicians elected from constituencies but will see representation from all sectors, such as representatives from different vocations and groups. This will be designed by a Constitution that sees public participation to ensure a true democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy.

3. To ensure that new politics is introduced in the Kingdom of Thailand, the PAD announces the following stance:

3.1 The PAD sees its first goal as chasing out this proxy government that has sold the country. It is not necessary for negotiations with any group that sees otherwise.

We support changes to the current political situation on the condition that political reform must happen and the public must be allowed participation in politics. There must also be sincere efforts to solve the evil in the Thaksin regime through the judiciary system.

The proposal on the PAD stage of a 70 : 30 ratio of public representatives to elected representatives is merely an example of how the old-style politics should be replaced and is open to discussions. It is not a fixed formula advocated by the PAD. We are ready for a discussion from all sides on designing new politics and will respect the majority decision for new politics that is ethical, moral, and more representative of the varied social sectors to go in line with the lifestyles and culture of Thailand but still upholding democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy.

With deep respect,

People's Alliance for Democracy

Monday, September 08, 2008

Government House

LOL

Regards this PAD ransom demand; in keeping with the views of the international community, democratically elected governments do not negotiate with terrorist organisations.stop.

[Wiresok]

I assume weirdsok was talking about TRT/PPP dissolution cases, not 2001. During Thaksin's years only Administrative Court had any sort of independence.

Then there was memorable address to the courts in May 2006, telling them to put their shit together, because MOST of the problems here are of judicial, not political nature.

Look at all the reasons to kick up PAD protests - fraud, corruption, share concealment, vote buying, falsifying papers - it has nothing to do with policies or ideology whatsoever. If they, starting from Thaksin, just got on with governing the country none of the protests would have happened at all.

Ha Ha Ha.......clearly one of the do as I say... not as I do , tv PAD mouthpiece brigade.

You are a self-outed, proven Hypocrite!!

Above you also childishly demonstrate your immaturity, but they are the ones the PAD like, easier for the terrorists to work on.

Nevermind you will ok, being a friend of the courts, but they will increase your donations for their favour.

I as a seeker of truth and justice take away the emmotion ,bias, and personalities and concentrate on the principles.

For years, your thai establishment (royalists, businessmen, urban middle class) have been claiming the thai courts and anybody associated with them are corrupt,

Indeed , in the PAD terrorist ransom note the unelected, anti-democratic ,self styled leader himself tells you the Thai courts are corrupt.

You know what...I agree the thai courts are corrupt.

And that applies across the spectrum,..judges not allowing fair challenge to fact, evidence, and opinion.

Since the illegal military coup to overthrow the democratically elected goverment are you seriously trying to tell me that PAD member, supporter, sympathyser, donater, para-military influence is not now rooted in there?, with unaccountable protection.

After the purge of the earlier incumbants, who do you think moved in?

Can you seriously tell me where PAD is exherting any influence anywhere on the political process....other than in the courts.

Can you seriously tell me where PAD are progressing their agenda in the democratic process?...other than the courts.

It is clear the courts are now the instrument of convenience of the PAD.

Why, because the PAD are insignificant in the bigger picture of Thai elected democracy, and seek to oppose the fair and reasonable re-distribution of wealth.

So yes, just as the PAD leader says in his ransom demand, and the establishment have said for years, the thai courts are corrupt, biased, and unaccountable.

It is for the thai judiciary to prone itself before all of the people , and to take the layers off, free itself from its paymasters, and demonstrate its fairness and impartiallity for all thais.

Untill it does it will remain corrupt and one-eyed.

[blaze]

Who is this guy Giles Ji Ungpakorn, political science professor at Chulalongkorn University . Is he Thai or Farang? He is so anti PAD.

http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/2008/12/02/a-sec...he-rich-5149391

He is a paranoid communist (self-proclaimed socialist) that hates HRM and therefor takes any chance he can to throw dirt in some directions. And since the former TRT with Thaksin at it's helm worked against the real Head of State, presumable to become it himself...Giles sees PAD as a threat. And therefor he takes the 'enemy of my enemy' approach to TRT/PPP.

colpyat was just being disingenuous when he asked the question.

who is "colpyat" and why do you think he/she was being disingenuous?

Colpyat was one of the first in this forum to warn of the incipient anti-democratic tendencies of the PAD. Among others, colpyat would frequently refer to the writings of Giles Ji U, one of the few socialist academics in Thailand. Colpyat rubbed some people the wrong way and was consequently prohibited from posting. Since then, there is an assumption in some quarters that anyone who refers positively to Giles Ji U is an incarnation of the dreaded colpyat- --- kind of like in the same way that anyone who, for instance, opposes PAD is assumed to be a Thaksinlover- even according to more than one of the PAD supporters, paid by Thaksin (directly or indirectly) to sew dissent among right thinking folks. Volk. Folk.

Edited December 4, 2008 by blaze

[samgrowth]

Who is this guy Giles Ji Ungpakorn, political science professor at Chulalongkorn University . Is he Thai or Farang? He is so anti PAD.

http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/2008/12/02/a-sec...he-rich-5149391

He is a paranoid communist (self-proclaimed socialist) that hates HRM and therefor takes any chance he can to throw dirt in some directions. And since the former TRT with Thaksin at it's helm worked against the real Head of State, presumable to become it himself...Giles sees PAD as a threat. And therefor he takes the 'enemy of my enemy' approach to TRT/PPP.

colpyat was just being disingenuous when he asked the question.

who is "colpyat" and why do you think he/she was being disingenuous?

Colpyat was one of the first in this forum to warn of the incipient anti-democratic tendencies of the PAD. Among others, colpyat would frequently refer to the writings of Giles Ji U, one of the few socialist academics in Thailand. Colpyat rubbed some people the wrong way and was consequently prohibited from posting. Since then, there is an assumption in some quarters that anyone who refers positively to Giles Ji U is an incarnation of the dreaded colpyat- --- kind of like in the same way that anyone who, for instance, opposes PAD is assumed to be a Thaksinlover- even according to more than one of the PAD supporters, paid by Thaksin (directly or indirectly) to sew dissent among right thinking folks. Volk. Folk.

I was asking about Giles beacuse I came across one of his writing today. I also saw him on on one of the reputable western media recently (can't remember if it is ABC, BBC, Bloomberg, CCTV, CNBC, CNN or ALJAZEERA). He doesn't look very Thai nor Farang, so I am confused? I am not sure why is he so any PAD.

[permanent_disorder]

Who is this guy Giles Ji Ungpakorn, political science professor at Chulalongkorn University . Is he Thai or Farang? He is so anti PAD.

http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/2008/12/02/a-sec...he-rich-5149391

he is half, father thai, mother british. but i don't see why his nationality, thai, farang, korean, tuvalu or whatever it could be seen in connection with him being "so anti Pad". lot's of thai nationals are "so anti PAD"

Giles often get bashed by the proPAD crowd. a case of shooting at the messenger.

he is for sure not ProThaksin, writes often for prachathai . follow the link to see the 'about us' page. those people suffered from Thaksins censorship attempts. so take your time proPADs. you claim to fight in their names. those people informed us about Tak-bai, disappearring muslim lawyers, war on drugs etc. the thaksin scam.

Professor Giles was also the one who exposed Samak. go back 1976- Samak sitting in a radio station and make announcements that, so argues Giles, incite the violence that later occurred.

Samak brought Giles to court for that.

that sidenote of the oct. 1976,exposed by Giles, was later used here in the forum to blame nearly Samak alone for the full responsibility what happen in oct.1976.

harsh words Giles use there, but it's worth to take your time and read it.

and like this artice by Professor Giles, i read many articles written by academics and such, do my studies on the subject . thats is the way among other things i made my mind up. or found my own conclusions backed up and verified. that is the way i go before i voice my opinion, i do only when i feel that i am informed enough.

keep in mind that he is some kind of a spokesperson for a trotskyist union group. so he have also this workings class rights rethorik. not enough to bash him the PAD also hangs with Unions, but are more frowsty, duplicitous one like the 'established' unions all are.

so PAD lover guys, how do you made your minds up? where you got your informations from? is there a website, where some academics or other wise people explain why PAD is cool stuff?

Kuhn Giles is very anti-pad and pro status quo, but with country side leanings.

...

Love that Socialist Workers big Fist logo of his.

fist logos are nothing unique.

i love the "squaring the circle" attempt by the PAD. red flag, white disc, black logo inside. can you still recognize the original? now it looks like a cheap copy / fake like Luis Vilton bag, or addibabas t-shirt or LOLEX Watches.

thanks people like Giles, who also organised the "October 1976 Fact Finding Committee" and digged in that part of thailands history, some others would like to keep quiet about, so thanks him we know more about the oct.1976. so today is there is also a memorial monument for the october people.

from there the 4 fists in the PAD symbol coming from. and that bird in the middle, not a aryan vedic symbol. but a old biblical and christian symbol. odd.

i wish i could have a t-shirt with that logo, but must be like the flag, a red shirt & the well known white disc square. a strange souvenir for the people back home. like the osama shirt, uber cool, to cool to wear.

first pic: fist symbol PAD aka National Liberation Alliance

second pic: an end to corruption. vote for national socialist

[Plus]

Giles is just a blubbering idiot on steroids, whatever common sense and logic he could have had in his early days (like when he tried to arrest Bush during the APEC summit) have completely disappeared since anti-Thaksin uprising (he can't stand royalists).

I don't know why they keep him at the university, maybe just like as a specimen of communist paranoia gone overboard.

And he is a unique specimen, completely out of sync with outside world.

I loved how he, without a blink of an eye, boldly declared that it is impossible to analyze 1997 economic crisis without looking at it from communist class struggle perspective. I bet not one of the thousands of economists and policy makers who dealt with the aftermath all across the region have ever thought of that one before, but that's Giles for you. Communism comes first, and everything - hearts, minds, intelligence must be sacrificed in the name of the idea.

>>>>>

JJJ, I'm glad that you realise how wrong was judge Wasant in delivering his verdict based on democratic and political science instead of the law. What you probably don't realise yet is that he was widely condemned and Sanan even tried to impeach him for that. His attempt didn't get anywhere after his signature campaign stalled, Wasant retired and got away, but others took notice.

It was 2006 speech that really put the judges in the spotlight, not all judiciary, of course, but the top courts were really made to see the importance of their service to the country.

[animatic]

Of course if you look at this poster logo,

it is hands holding arms in unity,

surrounding the bird of peace (with olive branch; not seen this version),

in a celestial firmament.

Edited December 4, 2008 by animatic

[permanent_disorder]

Who is this guy Giles Ji Ungpakorn, political science professor at Chulalongkorn University . Is he Thai or Farang? He is so anti PAD.

http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/2008/12/02/a-sec...he-rich-5149391

He is a paranoid communist (self-proclaimed socialist) that hates HRM and therefor takes any chance he can to throw dirt in some directions. And since the former TRT with Thaksin at it's helm worked against the real Head of State, presumable to become it himself...Giles sees PAD as a threat. And therefor he takes the 'enemy of my enemy' approach to TRT/PPP.

nahh, just have a look what Giles wrote about TRT 2001. and check if it sounds like paranoid communist propaganda:

" The fundamental contradiction of the Thai Ruk Thai landslide election victory was that this capitalist party, headed by Thaksin, a multi-billionnaire, won the election on the basis of both money politics and a sensitivity towards demands from below. The amount of money used by Thai Ruk Thai for advertising, persuading politicians with local bases to defect from other parties and for buying votes in the run up to the election was probably unprecedented. Yet at the same time its election victory was partly due to 3 promises made to the electorate. These were (1) a promise to introduce a low cost heath care scheme for all citizens, (2) a promise to provide a 1 million baht loan to each village in order to stimulate economic activity and (3) a promise to introduce a debt moratorium for poor peasants. Some of the ex-Communists who are now members of the party, and who hold cabinet positions, were moved to comment that “we’ve seized state power without having to eat taro and sweet potatoes”(an allusion to the diet of Communist fighters in the jungle).

The three policies outlined above are undoubtedly beneficial to the poor and show that even Thai governments run by parties of the elite can be susceptible to pressure from below. The fact that the public perception of the previous Democrat Party administration was that it had spent all its time in office bailing out the rich with government money, while beating the poor with riot police, meant that they lost the election. Yet there is a serious problem with the Thai Ruk Thai proposals. This is because the party has promised benefits to all sectors of society, including tax cuts for the rich. No long term benefits for the poor can be achieved without a progressive tax policy which places the burden on the rich to pay for such benefits. Thai Ruk Thai’s lack of any progressive tax policy, together with the fact that Thaksin himself stands accused of falsifying assets reports in order to avoid tax, mean that serious problems could lie ahead."

Giles in September 2001

two years later again in september we could hear Sondhi Limthongkul (now PAD leader) famous quote:“PM Thaksin is no saint, please do not be mistaken, but he is the best prime minister our country has ever had.”

read here more about the Thaksin sondhi lovestory:

Chamlong Srimuangwas Thaksins advisor and mentor until 2004. Chamlongs concept of a "good leader" is mainly responsible of the image of a smiling super leader on top.

"Chamlong Srimuang (now PAD leader), the Palang Dharma Party founder who has lived in seclusion for years, came out yesterday in defence of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The former political heavyweight, who once picked Thaksin to replace him as the party leader, said that it was very difficult for the prime minister to please everyone. As the government leader, Thaksin had to respond both softly and aggressively, depending on the situation, Chamlong said. The prime minister might have obtained some information, not available to his critics, that suggested he should act aggressively on certain occasions, he added. The fact that Thaksin was quick to make sharp comments made him stand out from many politicians who preferred to make neutral remarks in order to avoid upsetting others, Chamlong said. "Do we want a reply that does not answer the question?" he added"

The Nation March 28, 2002

i hope that gives some additional help to figure it out if Professor Giles papers are worth to read or not. or deserve. to be called " blubbering idiot on steroids" or if the Giles basher comments have any truth. think for yourself, keep reading.

real idiots you can find on the PAD side. just take Karun Sai-ngarm for example

"12:04 am: Two senators - Karun Sai-ngarm and Pichet Phattanachote lead the protesters to curse Thaksin in response to a superstitious rite they says Thaksin is having a Cambodian witchdoctor perform in Buri Ram.

Karun asks the crowd to put Thaksin's photos or name under women's crotch and curse him three times.

Karun asks women to stand up for putting Thaksin's name and photos under their legs. Karun and Pichet lead the crowd to curse Thaksin three times. They ask the crowd to curse Thaksin to leave office, ..."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/03/15...es_20002785.php

this is until today, from PAD you can here lot's of gossip, women affairs thaksin have. or somchai. that gossip PAD are using to make some points.

[sriracha john]

Who is this guy Giles Ji Ungpakorn, political science professor at Chulalongkorn University . Is he Thai or Farang? He is so anti PAD.

http://wdpress.blog.co.uk/2008/12/02/a-sec...he-rich-5149391

He is a paranoid communist (self-proclaimed socialist) that hates HRM and therefor takes any chance he can to throw dirt in some directions. And since the former TRT with Thaksin at it's helm worked against the real Head of State, presumable to become it himself...Giles sees PAD as a threat. And therefor he takes the 'enemy of my enemy' approach to TRT/PPP.

colpyat was just being disingenuous when he asked the question.

who is "colpyat" and why do you think he/she was being disingenuous?

Colpyat was one of the first in this forum to warn of the incipient anti-democratic tendencies of the PAD. Among others, colpyat would frequently refer to the writings of Giles Ji U, one of the few socialist academics in Thailand. Colpyat rubbed some people the wrong way and was consequently prohibited from posting. Since then, there is an assumption in some quarters that anyone who refers positively to Giles Ji U is an incarnation of the dreaded colpyat-

colpyat was a troll who was banned for repeatedly violating basic forum rules. His subsequent repetitious returns and bannings reflect a serious disturbance.

giles is brought up all the time, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's always colpyat.

btw, blaze, the new troll didn't speak "positively" about giles... simply inquired about him.... a rather disingenuous tactic, same as your defense of the banned troll.

Edited December 4, 2008 by sriracha john

[permanent_disorder]

Of course if you look at this poster logo,

it is hands holding arms in unity,

surrounding the bird of peace (with olive branch; not seen this version),

in a celestial firmament.

nah, hands holding arms? trying avoid to say fists? there are 4 fists!

it's not the first and only time that PAD like to use the fist symbol and that all this looks somehow like nazi shit

my older entry in PAD propaganda iconography is hitlerthaksin always the money jew and samak the Untermensch. have a couple of pictures to illustrate that.

ahh, yeah. the irony...

below from an other thread. PAD cult apologist have a talk about the symbols the others are using. red, fist & unity.

Note: they are not talking about the pic above, but about something someone had read somewhere in the newspaper.

copying the Swastikas on the clapping hands...

There's a short story in paper Nation about Thaksin supporters from Chiang Mai who are going to produce their own version of clapping hands. They will symbolize "unity and democracy", and be shaped in form a fist, and be colored red.

Presumably meant to be applied to PADs' heads to ensure proper understanding of "unity".

The red fist of unity.

How lovely, and these people don't see the irony of course.

One Party, that controls all, unites all in it's image. Brooks no dissenting voices

One red fist to bring all others into line with the central vision.

I wonder what the academics will make of this one....?

The red fist of unity. Troll food with extra butter.

Should get Predelictionto_Distemper's panties in a twist of joy.

reality check, look in The Nation and read for yourself what the article reports.

"Phromsak Sanpho, chief of a network of grassroots groups in the region, said in Chiang Mai yesterday that apart from the fists, they will also come up with plastic hands that depict "I love you" in sign language.

The group intends to use the fists, which will be red in colour and made from sponge, as a symbol of democracy and reconciliation. They would be handed out to members next week."

how a fist stands for reconciliation is, admittedly, odd. but made of sponge hurts maybe not so much like a hit with a golf club. anyway, later i saw the same trashy plastic clappers but in shape of a feet.

[CL0R0X]

i got a question?

can party-list politicians transfer from one party to another while maintaining their MP status?

an individual person need to be in a party to run for election, since the party is dissolve they should loose their MP status, joining new party which is not elected by the people, meaning the party is in-active there for the status of MP should not be exist.

[sriracha john]

Janista "Bam" to wed businessman

Janista Liewchalermwong, a former popular TV host who turned to be a Chart Thai politician, has decided to marry her businessman boyfriend, a Party source said.

Janista, better known as "Bam, was among the executives who came under five-year political ban after their Party was dissolved.

The source said Janista decided to marry her businessman boyfriend, know as Boat, early next year because she is now free from political work.

- The Nation / 2008-12-05