30-days Border Runs Now Only 15 Days

[Zappadappa]

Oh, you know, the visa rules in my home country and here in Britian, where I live now, are far more demanding then Thailand's rules.

In Australia, forget just arriving on a plane.

In the UK, unless your from the EU, which makes you a conditional citizen of the UK, you must get a visa. Getting these visas is no simple matter - some of the Thai people I know here have to prove, in part by paying for expensive language courses, that they are here for legitimate purposes.

I'm not sure about the US, but I do know they've tightened up lately.

It saddens and surprises me that I regularly hear from some disgruntled Australian's, Briton's and American's that the Thai's are 'so bad' to us.

It is problematic that the visa laws do cause such inconvenience, but we 'can' get into Thailand, all of us!

Many Thai's cannot get into my country at all, not for any reason.

How welcoming is your country to Thai's?

Are you really benefiting Thailand by being there, as some suggest, or are you self-seeking benefits, but using the 'I'm benefiting Thailand' cliche in misrepresented, but, self-serving cliches?

etr

BRAVO Couldn't agree more!!

[Soutpeel]

The new rule will also affect people waiting for the paperwork from the Ministry of Education, it takes about 3-4 weeks in Bangkok so till recently those who applied right after their visa run were able to obtain the paperwork without the need to leave the country, now it compliactes things as they might have to make another visa run, or apply right after they arrive in the country to make sure they have at least 4 weeks left.

Staying in Thailand on an ED visa is a very good option for those interested in learning Thai. All you need is one extension at the local immigration office every 90 days. You can study at our school for years. No visa runs at all. I can assure you that you can trust our school, 8th year in business, we will not run away with your money like Areeya 'school' in Phuket. Come the the party on the 12th of December, Larrys Dive, Sukhumvit soi 22, starting at 8pm till very late. You will be able to talk to hundreds of students.

Mac

Walen School of Thai

Mac

a very valid posting until......"I can assure you"......not very good business practice or very professional slagging off competitors, however dishonest they appear to be....suppose if I come down there on the 12th you won't let me in door ?

Call me cynical, but when someone make a point to me that they will not do something, I get worried, as I assume they have already done something or at least has crossed their mind...

[Roachiebkk]

Great idea in principal. If you want to work in Thailand, get the correct visa, work permit and pay your taxes.

Finally, immigration is clamping down. I hope they stick to their guns.

It's not so great if, in the case of a lot of my customers you are booked on an 18 day holiday in Thailand and enter from Cambodia. They aren't dodgy visa-runners just pretty well off punters who will now need to arrange their visa in advance or not bother coming. this does have an effect on tourism as this case points out

[insideleft]

Oh, you know, the visa rules in my home country and here in Britian, where I live now, are far more demanding then Thailand's rules.

In Australia, forget just arriving on a plane.

In the UK, unless your from the EU, which makes you a conditional citizen of the UK, you must get a visa. Getting these visas is no simple matter - some of the Thai people I know here have to prove, in part by paying for expensive language courses, that they are here for legitimate purposes.

I'm not sure about the US, but I do know they've tightened up lately.

It saddens and surprises me that I regularly hear from some disgruntled Australian's, Briton's and American's that the Thai's are 'so bad' to us.

It is problematic that the visa laws do cause such inconvenience, but we 'can' get into Thailand, all of us!

Many Thai's cannot get into my country at all, not for any reason.

How welcoming is your country to Thai's?

Are you really benefiting Thailand by being there, as some suggest, or are you self-seeking benefits, but using the 'I'm benefiting Thailand' cliche in misrepresented, but, self-serving cliches?

etr

I am an American that crossed from France to the UK. I get 6 months automatically. I didn't aply for any visa nor am I a resident of the EU. You may have other points but your argument about the UK border policy just isn't true

Exactly,

apples and oranges comparison. Is it harder to get in to the US but really if you get in you can stay a while. The Thai people I know who are not rich (but not super poor) have got visa to come here and stayed 3 months, no border runs.

Then there are the those farang in TH that have some kind of self righteous complex and are filled with hatred they need to take it out on those who don't have a work permit.

What makes you so angry?

Most people doing border runs don't work but do spend their money everyday in real places, mom and pop shops, haircut places, food stalls etc, not some multi national hotel.

Ask the Thai people at these places if they want the farang to leave?

and the very few who do work illegally are usually teachers. But I guess you don't want poorer Thei kids to be able to speak with native speakers?

As for paying taxes, whenever you buy things you are paying taxes.

Most farang will take very little from the gov't, they don't have kids in govt school, don't use govt hospitals, don't use social services. How exactly are these people a drain on society?

But I guess if having some kinda of boogie man to hate gets you off...'

Well, except for the 'boogie man' point at the end, I do agree with all of your other points. Those most affected by these visa changes, I expect, would overwhelmingly come from the visitor group that provides little profit to the multinationals, but a great deal of daily income to the local, small businesses.

Well stated, except for that 'boogie man' bit...

[crocodilexp]

i don't see any trouble in this rule, who was stupid enough to go out every month instead of buying the appropriate visa?

Why be so smug?

* People can be between jobs for a month or three, perhaps deliberately taking a break. Now everybody is pressed to work for a single outfit year-round to maintain their visa.

* Regulations may change for *your* visa that you now think is safe and proper (regardless of which visa it is, retirement, marriage, etc.). Then you may well have to briefly fall back on plan B... 14 days is not even enough to pack up and leave. In Thailand, any other regulation may change in unpredictable ways (e.g. "all work permit holders earning <150.000 / mo must personally hire 10 Thais or leave within 5 days"). Cheering the narrowing of options is hardly wise.

* Backpackers and long-term travelers will be inconvenienced. I met people hopping between various countries in SE Asia for 6 moths or more. Not a great time to chase them away.

* Legitimate tourists, would largely not bother obtaining visas -- the process requires 2 visits (overnight) at most Thai consulates (e.g. Vancouver), or spending 4 h with research/mailing application etc. So, forget the European families on a 5-6 week holiday. Moreover, even hearing "15-day stay limit" might make many schedule their 3-week vacation elsewhere (even if they could stay 30 days when flying in, they may not bother researching).

Everybody cheers chasing away the "riff-raff". Do you think an average Pattaya sexpat would blink at overstaying or leave due to slight extra hassle obtaining a visa? Like it or not, the riff-raff are the most motivated and resilient group of Farangs when it comes to coming and staying here. They'll be the last ones leaving. Live and let live.

[sabaijai]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

The 90-days-in-180-days rule is re-listed in the new law.

[anotheruser]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

The 90-days-in-180-days rule is re-listed in the new law.

Okay that means a few people will be headed to Cambodia or elsewhere. Now all they need to do is close the bar and entertainment areas and they will be rid of the low class Farangs in Thailand.

[SarahPJ]

30-days border runs now only 15 days

BANGKOK: -- In order to limit the amount of foreigners using "back-to-back" border runs, Thai Immigration has issued a new regulation regarding the 30 days tourist exemption.

Effective immediately, travellers without visa will get only 15 days of stay if they are arriving via a land border checkpoint from a neigboring country.

Passengers arriving via an international airport will obtain a 30 days stay, and for them there is no change.

Travellers with Malaysian passports will obtain a 30 days stay.

This police order number 778/2551 is today confirmed by Royal Thai Police, Immigration Bureau, in Bangkok.

-- thaivisa.com 2008-12-04

Attached: Royal Thai Police order (Thai language)

RTP778_2551.pdf

Speechless - the logic(?) behind Thailand's immigration rules will never cease to amaze me!

[Mario2008]

Can't be sure of if the 90 day rule is abolished. We don't have a complete translation yet of the whole document. I must say it seems that way, but I'm not sure if this new police order is replacing the 90 day police order. It does look that way, but can someone who can read Thai confirm it replaces police order 608/2549?

The new rule clearly says the Article 3 of police order 608/2549 established on 8 September 2549 has been discontinued and replaced with a new Article 3 of Police Order 778/2551 of 25 November 2551. So the 90 days in six months rule has been discontinued officially by the new order which does not have the 90 day rule in it at all.

The 90-days-in-180-days rule is re-listed in the new law.

Guess we will have to wait for a full translation then.

[MacWalen]

The new rule will also affect people waiting for the paperwork from the Ministry of Education, it takes about 3-4 weeks in Bangkok so till recently those who applied right after their visa run were able to obtain the paperwork without the need to leave the country, now it compliactes things as they might have to make another visa run, or apply right after they arrive in the country to make sure they have at least 4 weeks left.

Staying in Thailand on an ED visa is a very good option for those interested in learning Thai. All you need is one extension at the local immigration office every 90 days. You can study at our school for years. No visa runs at all. I can assure you that you can trust our school, 8th year in business, we will not run away with your money like Areeya 'school' in Phuket. Come the the party on the 12th of December, Larrys Dive, Sukhumvit soi 22, starting at 8pm till very late. You will be able to talk to hundreds of students.

Mac

Walen School of Thai

Good subtle advertising.

But on a serious note - the ed visa must be a good serious option for many of the "riff raff" without visa farangs? - Are there any financial requirements other than the induction fee?

Passport, 6 pictures and the fee. We take care of the rest. not really advertising, just trying to help as much as we can. If somebody is interested in the Thai language they can as well get the visa why not.

Mac

Walen School

[hansnl]

Could it be that they are in some way trying to benefit the crippled airline industry? This is Thailand you know.

No, of course not, they just blame the farang for all the self-inflicted troubles.

Edited December 4, 2008 by hansnl

[donkeykong]

Air Asia : BKK-Penang round trip is only 4000 bt (including all taxes and fees) + taxis + overnight hotel etc (3-5k) = 7-9000 bt

A 60-day Tourist Visa is 1000 bt. Extended at Immigration for another 30 days for 1900bt. So 90-days problem-free is 12,000 BAHT

And now they've scrapped the 90-day clause - so Tourist Visas can be back-to-back.

WHERE'S THE PROBLEM?

(The crappy visa runs to the flea-pit border have always been a major pain anyway)

If the 'authorities' keep shooting themselves in the foot - the exchange rates should make it even cheaper!

Edited December 4, 2008 by donkeykong

[imaneggspurt]

Has anyone mentioned the border run minibus companies,?, oh dear, looks like they will be out of work soon,.

On the contrary, they'll be driving people every 2 weeks now instead of 30 days cos the 90 days rule doesn't count anymore.

This new law/rule is useless, they do it mainly to get the 'bad' farangs out but that won't help because the 90 day rule is scrapped.

They won't get any extra money out of it that's worth all the changes because the 90 day rule is scrapped.

the big winners are the visa companies doing the runs.

Wont it be cheaper to fly once a month as opposed to bussing twice a month,? i know what id rather do,.

[SiriusBlack1]

I was dismayed at first until I realized that my runs to Singapore don't count

And since, like many other non-riff raff falangs, I much prefer Singapore to (shudder) Cambodia, it won't affect me.

All in all not a major change.

[Jingthing]

Air Asia : BKK-Penang round trip is only 4000 bt (including all taxes and fees) + taxis + overnight hotel etc (3-5k) = 7-9000 bt

A 60-day Tourist Visa is 1000 bt. Extended at Immigration for another 30 days for 1900bt. So 90-days problem-free is 12,000 BAHT

And now they've scrapped the 90-day clause - so Tourist Visas can be back-to-back.

WHERE'S THE PROBLEM?

(The crappy visa runs to the flea-pit border have always been a major pain anyway)

If the 'authorities' keep shooting themselves in the foot - the exchange rates should make it even cheaper!

It may be a problem depending on where the foreigners live. If you live next to BKK, no problem. Chiang Rai? The bus is better.

[Seneque]

Oh, you know, the visa rules in my home country and here in Britian, where I live now, are far more demanding then Thailand's rules.

In Australia, forget just arriving on a plane.

In the UK, unless your from the EU, which makes you a conditional citizen of the UK, you must get a visa. Getting these visas is no simple matter - some of the Thai people I know here have to prove, in part by paying for expensive language courses, that they are here for legitimate purposes.

I'm not sure about the US, but I do know they've tightened up lately.

It saddens and surprises me that I regularly hear from some disgruntled Australian's, Briton's and American's that the Thai's are 'so bad' to us.

It is problematic that the visa laws do cause such inconvenience, but we 'can' get into Thailand, all of us!

Many Thai's cannot get into my country at all, not for any reason.

How welcoming is your country to Thai's?

Are you really benefiting Thailand by being there, as some suggest, or are you self-seeking benefits, but using the 'I'm benefiting Thailand' cliche in misrepresented, but, self-serving cliches?

etr

I am an American that crossed from France to the UK. I get 6 months automatically. I didn't aply for any visa nor am I a resident of the EU. You may have other points but your argument about the UK border policy just isn't true

The argument is true ...

You entered into the EU via France .... once in the EU you can travel anywhere in the EU (shengen visa) ... if you entered to the UK first you would have to present your visa and from there you may go anywhere in the shengen zone.

[MacWalen]

Air Asia : BKK-Penang round trip is only 4000 bt (including all taxes and fees) + taxis + overnight hotel etc (3-5k) = 7-9000 bt

A 60-day Tourist Visa is 1000 bt. Extended at Immigration for another 30 days for 1900bt. So 90-days problem-free is 12,000 BAHT

And now they've scrapped the 90-day clause - so Tourist Visas can be back-to-back.

WHERE'S THE PROBLEM?

(The crappy visa runs to the flea-pit border have always been a major pain anyway)

If the 'authorities' keep shooting themselves in the foot - the exchange rates should make it even cheaper!

so 360 days from Penang is 48,000, ouch! Not a good deal in my opinion, and also time wasted. We can offer a better deal sure!

Mac

Walen School

[gbswales]

The whole notion of visa control on where people can and cannot live is archaic - allowing the world's population free movement wherever they wish is the only way to slowly share the wealth of the world more evenly. At the moment it is all about money and has nothing to do with peoples rights - if you are comparatively rich enough you can go to a poorer country and live like a king - if you are poor, then you are stuck where you are! Of course while people still believe that "nationality" is a good thing then each country will selfishly continue to cherry pick who they share their wealth with.

[donkeykong]

It may be a problem depending on where the foreigners live. If you live next to BKK, no problem. Chiang Rai? The bus is better.

Air Asia round trips (from most airports in Thailand) to KL cost much the same

[robbo1]

Interestingly, I have some friends who are coming to stay with me on Koh Phan Ngan for a month who, becuase they cannot fly into Suvannbhum, have decided to fly to KL and take the train for a bit of a change.

I now have to contact them and tell them that they cant, because visa regs changed. lets just hope i can get a hold of them in time.

This is going to be the case with quite a few people this season. People who have made alternate plans to enter the kingdom by land but have nonetheless decided to come despite the insanity. These are people who plan to spend bout 3 weeks on the islands (mostly international school teachers from cambodia, china, singapore etc) on their christmas break who cannot fly into the capital, nor can they travel overland without prearranging their visa

truly excellent timing

I think reading between the lines the 15 day visa comes in after your initial 1 month stay as a tourist .

I think I can still fly from australia stay for say 29 days without any visa does that sound about right ?

[hansnl]

Oh, you know, the visa rules in my home country and here in Britian, where I live now, are far more demanding then Thailand's rules.

In Australia, forget just arriving on a plane.

In the UK, unless your from the EU, which makes you a conditional citizen of the UK, you must get a visa. Getting these visas is no simple matter - some of the Thai people I know here have to prove, in part by paying for expensive language courses, that they are here for legitimate purposes.

I'm not sure about the US, but I do know they've tightened up lately.

It saddens and surprises me that I regularly hear from some disgruntled Australian's, Briton's and American's that the Thai's are 'so bad' to us.

It is problematic that the visa laws do cause such inconvenience, but we 'can' get into Thailand, all of us!

Many Thai's cannot get into my country at all, not for any reason.

How welcoming is your country to Thai's?

Are you really benefiting Thailand by being there, as some suggest, or are you self-seeking benefits, but using the 'I'm benefiting Thailand' cliche in misrepresented, but, self-serving cliches?

etr

BRAVO Couldn't agree more!!

Yes, you are right, indeed it is vey difficult for Thai people to enter any of the European countries.

Why should that be, you think.

Maybe, just maybe, the EU countries found out that a lot of Thai people enter the country on a visa, and then disappear.

Most come to the EU with a financial guarantee from someone in the EU, and most don't bring much money with them.

Now, the farang going to Thailand, nobody needs to guarantee him, he spends his money, is ripped off most of the time, wants to stay some longer or forever, and cannot do that.

Because of the immigration laws.

You see the difference?

I do!

If you spend money while being a tourist, money from abroad, one way or another you benifit the country you visit.

If you go to atcountry with no money, with a guarantee, you do not benifit the country you visit.

Simple

[george]

Interestingly, I have some friends who are coming to stay with me on Koh Phan Ngan for a month who, becuase they cannot fly into Suvannbhum, have decided to fly to KL and take the train for a bit of a change.

I now have to contact them and tell them that they cant, because visa regs changed. lets just hope i can get a hold of them in time.

This is going to be the case with quite a few people this season. People who have made alternate plans to enter the kingdom by land but have nonetheless decided to come despite the insanity. These are people who plan to spend bout 3 weeks on the islands (mostly international school teachers from cambodia, china, singapore etc) on their christmas break who cannot fly into the capital, nor can they travel overland without prearranging their visa

truly excellent timing

I think reading between the lines the 15 day visa comes in after your initial 1 month stay as a tourist .

I think I can still fly from australia stay for say 29 days without any visa does that sound about right ?

Every entry via Air get you 30 days. Only border crossings give you 15 days.

[endure]

Oh, you know, the visa rules in my home country and here in Britian, where I live now, are far more demanding then Thailand's rules.

In Australia, forget just arriving on a plane.

In the UK, unless your from the EU, which makes you a conditional citizen of the UK, you must get a visa. Getting these visas is no simple matter - some of the Thai people I know here have to prove, in part by paying for expensive language courses, that they are here for legitimate purposes.

I'm not sure about the US, but I do know they've tightened up lately.

It saddens and surprises me that I regularly hear from some disgruntled Australian's, Briton's and American's that the Thai's are 'so bad' to us.

It is problematic that the visa laws do cause such inconvenience, but we 'can' get into Thailand, all of us!

Many Thai's cannot get into my country at all, not for any reason.

How welcoming is your country to Thai's?

Are you really benefiting Thailand by being there, as some suggest, or are you self-seeking benefits, but using the 'I'm benefiting Thailand' cliche in misrepresented, but, self-serving cliches?

etr

I am an American that crossed from France to the UK. I get 6 months automatically. I didn't aply for any visa nor am I a resident of the EU. You may have other points but your argument about the UK border policy just isn't true

The argument is true ...

You entered into the EU via France .... once in the EU you can travel anywhere in the EU (shengen visa) ... if you entered to the UK first you would have to present your visa and from there you may go anywhere in the shengen zone.

I don't think so. The UK isn't part of the Schengen scheme. I think the OP gained access to the UK based on the fact that he's a US citizen who don't normally need visas to visit the UK as tourists.

[sabaijai]

Police order 778 concerns the exceptions to the 'princples and conditions' listed in 777.

Police_order_777_2551_TH.pdf

[ubonjoe]

And now they've scrapped the 90-day clause - so Tourist Visas can be back-to-back.

The 90 day rule did not apply to tourist visas. You could always have back to back tourist visas and entries. Sounds like you got some bad info somewhere.

[Roachiebkk]

Oh, you know, the visa rules in my home country and here in Britian, where I live now, are far more demanding then Thailand's rules.

In Australia, forget just arriving on a plane.

In the UK, unless your from the EU, which makes you a conditional citizen of the UK, you must get a visa. Getting these visas is no simple matter - some of the Thai people I know here have to prove, in part by paying for expensive language courses, that they are here for legitimate purposes.

I'm not sure about the US, but I do know they've tightened up lately.

It saddens and surprises me that I regularly hear from some disgruntled Australian's, Briton's and American's that the Thai's are 'so bad' to us.

It is problematic that the visa laws do cause such inconvenience, but we 'can' get into Thailand, all of us!

Many Thai's cannot get into my country at all, not for any reason.

How welcoming is your country to Thai's?

Are you really benefiting Thailand by being there, as some suggest, or are you self-seeking benefits, but using the 'I'm benefiting Thailand' cliche in misrepresented, but, self-serving cliches?

etr

I am an American that crossed from France to the UK. I get 6 months automatically. I didn't aply for any visa nor am I a resident of the EU. You may have other points but your argument about the UK border policy just isn't true

The argument is true ...

You entered into the EU via France .... once in the EU you can travel anywhere in the EU (shengen visa) ... if you entered to the UK first you would have to present your visa and from there you may go anywhere in the shengen zone.

Hmmm,

Millions of foreigners come to Thailand for legitimate reasons of holiday, weather, beaches, cost of living etc. I've never seen millions of Thais wanting to go the other way, if that was the case I am sure the respective governments would eventually change their visa rules when considering the income it would bring.

[Alceo]

And you are not a rocket scientist bud!!. This is totally anti-productive, and yes lets see all those potential visitor's have another hurdle to neter Thailand and spend their money. Wake up pal, th country is in an economic and PR mess...and now this. Glad I left when I did...ENJOY the LOS..

[PhilHarries]

Great idea in principal. If you want to work in Thailand, get the correct visa, work permit and pay your taxes.

Finally, immigration is clamping down. I hope they stick to their guns.

I think that Thailand wants to get rid of what it sees as the riff raff falangs. Those who cannot be bothered or just cannot get the right visa. If you have a legitimate visa there is no problem in staying here.

Well said Sir!

This is a particular beef with me the "border runners" working here illegally.

This is a particular beef of mine. Why is it you automatically assume all visa exempt people in Thailand are illegal workers or that all people there on visas are squeaky clean and totally legal? Why is a person on a visa not going to work illegally?

Current rules limit a person to 90 days in 180 on visa exempt stamps after that they have to depart for 90 days. How is this more beneficial to working than having a visa and working illegally?

Even if someone is working illegally on visa exempt stamps I don't see how this will change anything. Instead of circa 2000 THB and a day out monthly it will be fortnightly or AirAsia are about to get busy (not).

The people it will affect the most are the casual travellers, back packers etc, who travel predominantly terrestially and from now on have 15 days to do what they want in Thailand and then move on. Will they do a border run for another 15 days or find another neighbouring friendlier country? Who knows, but I'd hazard a guess not.

It'll not affect me as I fly in but it's nice knowing that my exempt stamp p1sses so many of you off. Before you ask, it's just not worth getting a visa for my periodic R&R's when the maximum stay is 14 days but more often around 6.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Ok so the on thing i don't get yet is. If you are on a Non immigrant visa, or a proper tourist visa obtained from a Thai embassy abroad, are u still only entitled to a 15 day stamp when doing your 90 day border run? or is the fact that you have a proper visa mean you are still entitled to a 90 day pass when doing overland border stamps? Will non immigrant and multi entry tourist visa holders now have to fly for every visa stamp ?

is the 15 day stamp only relevent to Visa on arrival?

Anyone know this yet?

These does not affect travelers with Non-Immigrant or Tourist visas.

and also doesn't affect Visa on Arrival. (wich is a type of visa used by people from countries that aren't visa exempt (Russia, India etc) and was already for 15 days.)

[Soutpeel]

Hmmm,

Millions of foreigners come to Thailand for legitimate reasons of holiday, weather, beaches, cost of living etc. I've never seen millions of Thais wanting to go the other way, if that was the case I am sure the respective governments would eventually change their visa rules when considering the income it would bring.

Millions of foreigners DID come to Thailand for legitimate reasons.....who knows what the fall out of the recent fun and games will bring

You mention the weather, beaches, cost of living at legitimate reasons....so I would assume then that tourists coming to Thailand for the sole reasons of drinking the bars and partaking in the company of females are not legitimate reasons then to visit Thailand ?