Tv Members And Political Correctness

[GuestHouse]

OK, to take this example out of the discussion (and I still feel it warrants mention), the Iowa school system, at least the Des Moines Public School System, can no longer teach anything having to do with religion, at least at the primary school level. So our lighting a menora or fasting for one day during Ramadan is no longer allowed. Hence, my "contention" as posed by Guesthouse is a fairly logical and reasonable contention to make.

Either that, or the citizens of Des Moines are applying the segregation of State and Religion, again nothing to do with 'Political Correctness'

[So1DoG]

I havent read this thread for a while but i noticed scanning through that the racism word pops up an awful lot!

In the UK they have a music award night called MOBO(music of black origin) awards. Imagine if it was MOWO. Impossible that would be racist.

[dave9988]

Thailand is much more politically correct than any first world Western country. The social norms are never challenged and there is no freedom of speech or press.

[mahtin]

It's that recurring theme again.... Imagined excesses of Political Correctness.

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/25/elder...#comment-243705

Or is it just Garro's urban legend?

[garro]

I havent read this thread for a while but i noticed scanning through that the racism word pops up an awful lot!

In the UK they have a music award night called MOBO(music of black origin) awards. Imagine if it was MOWO. Impossible that would be racist.

I think you will find that the reason that many of these minority specific awards and societies/clubs emerge is because minorities were previously excluded or unfairly treated in the mainstream awards as well as societies/clubs.

Of course in an ideal world there would be no need for this, but as this thread proves we are far from an ideal world.

Edited December 17, 2008 by garro

[bonobo]

Bonobo, thanks for the link it provides some interesting information.

• The teacher was not, as you claimed, dismissed for teaching this lesson (she continued to teach this lesson for a further 9 years)
  
• The Teacher and her family suffered hostility in their own comunity because she was teaching this lesson
  
• Far from Political Correctness being used to control her or shut her up it is quite clear she and her family suffered personal attacks from racist bigots
  

You seemed to have given a link to an incident that has nothing to do with that which your referred to above.

Either that, or...... It's that recurring theme again.... Imagined excesses of Political Correctness.

Do you ever look at things without such polarized vision?

I never said she was fired after doing this once. She was fired once she got some acclaim and people became aware of the situation.

And in my posts, I was pretty clear that the more anti-PC crowd, to keep on theme, had as much to do, and I will write now actually more to do with her firing, than the what would now be labeled PC crowd. But while we all can pretty easily castigate racists, that does not excuse people who use PC-type arguements from being involved.

It must make it easy for you to sleep at night knowing that all is perfect in your wroldview, and that nobody who agrees with you can ever be wrong, even if misguided with the best of intentions.

RACISM is wrong, period. No arguement. But being PC or anti-PC is far more than simple racist issues. And whether you can accept it or not, it is possible for someone, even with the best of intentions, to go too far, or at least what most people would consider as too far. It is possible for anyting to have excesses. And it is extremely myopic for anyone to assume that just because he or she supports a certain program or position, it is somehow immune to excess.

[garro]

It's that recurring theme again.... Imagined excesses of Political Correctness.

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/25/elder...#comment-243705

Or is it just Garro's urban legend?

What is wrong here and what has this got to do with political correctness.

A swimming pool has implemented a rule that no photos should be taken inside the pool area.

This seems sensible to me as there are sick people out there.

The employee is following the rules of the pool as a good employee should.

Maybe he is being a bit rigid, but this has nothing to do with political correctness.

I would actually commend the employee for taking his job seriously.

I would be very suspicious of anybody wanting to take pictures of an empty pool.

Do you think that the pool should have implemented a special exemption for old women who like to take photos of empty pools?

Edited December 17, 2008 by garro

[popmybubble]

I would be very suspicious of anybody wanting to take pictures of an empty pool.

Why? What's to be suspicious of? I'd be more suspicious of someone who wanted to take pictures of strange children playing in a pool. Water is a common theme among artists and photographers.

[GuestHouse]

Bonobo, I have not accused you or racism or a denial that racism is wrong.

What I have said is you (and others) blame Political Correctness where there is no evidence of Political Correctness.

Here is the evidence... You stated:

However, some 15 or 20 years later, in another Iowa school (in Iowa City) a teacher, trying to teach students about prejudice (the entire school was white), put students into two groups based on eye color. On one day, the students of one group were put in the back of the class, made to eat lunch last, had a shorter recess, were told the other group was smarter, etc. On the next day, the roles were reversed. The "oppressed" group scored lower on quizzes each day and showed diminished social skills. When interviewed later, the students all expressed a distaste for any prejudice and avowed that they would never show it.

Good thing, right? Well, this teacher was fired. It seems people spouting the PC mantra thought you cannot tell anyone with green eyes they were not as smart, you could not give students with brown eyes a shorter recess.

The article you have provided does not say the teacher was fired but it does provide evidence that the attacks on the teacher and her family where of a racist and bigoted nature (Nothing at all to do with Political Correctness and everything to do with bigots having their world view challenged).

If you are going to change my world view (it is open for changing), do not provide evidence that supports the view I have.

[garro]

I would be very suspicious of anybody wanting to take pictures of an empty pool.

Why? What's to be suspicious of? I'd be more suspicious of someone who wanted to take pictures of strange children playing in a pool. Water is a common theme among artists and photographers.

Water may be a common theme among artists but in this case there was no water as it was an empty pool. As for suspicious behavior, there are many reasons why I would worry if I was the employee. Maybe she was looking for dirt (no pun intended) to use against the swimming pool owners in regards to cleanliness. Maybe she was going to use the photo for bad publicity; which considering the fuss made over this minor incident would hardly surprise me. There are many reasons why private and public places don't want photos taken. The point is that the employee was just doing his job.

The person I feel most sorry for in the article is the journalist, because he must be one hel_l of a hack to have been given such a story to report.

Edited December 17, 2008 by garro

[GuestHouse]

It is possible for anyting to have excesses. And it is extremely myopic for anyone to assume that just because he or she supports a certain program or position, it is somehow immune to excess.

I agree, moderation in all things.

But please don't present a case as an excess of Political Correctness where the evidence shows absolutely no Political Correctness.

Teachers dismissed (that where not dismissed), what Political Correctness would have done, or might do but has not done.

So many of the claims we are reading here of excessive Political Correctness seem to be at best to be Hyperbole if not imagined. (or shall we say, creatively remembered).

[Super Hans]

The point is that the employee was just doing his job.

Undoubtedly. He would make a very fine prison camp guard.

[Super Hans]

Of course you hear the argument that free-speech must be protected and that allowing the hate-mongers a platform will eventually lead to them realising the error of their ways as they see reason. This is not my belief.

Finally, the crux of the matter. The coalition of nutters foisting this agenda on the vast majority of us that don't want or need it, think they are doing it for our own good.

Imposing ideology on others is called fascism, innit?

[mahtin]

Of course you hear the argument that free-speech must be protected and that allowing the hate-mongers a platform will eventually lead to them realising the error of their ways as they see reason. This is not my belief.

Finally, the crux of the matter. The coalition of nutters foisting this agenda on the vast majority of us that don't want or need it, think they are doing it for our own good.

Imposing ideology on others is called fascism, innit?

Buchanan says in his book The Death of the West: "Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism, a regime to punish dissent and to stigmatize social heresy as the Inquisition punished religious heresy. Its trademark is intolerance."(p. 89).

I'd say extremism.

[garro]

Of course you hear the argument that free-speech must be protected and that allowing the hate-mongers a platform will eventually lead to them realising the error of their ways as they see reason. This is not my belief.

Finally, the crux of the matter. The coalition of nutters foisting this agenda on the vast majority of us that don't want or need it, think they are doing it for our own good.

Imposing ideology on others is called fascism, innit?

Buchanan says in his book The Death of the West: "Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism, a regime to punish dissent and to stigmatize social heresy as the Inquisition punished religious heresy. Its trademark is intolerance."(p. 89).

I'd say extremism.

Oh please, surely you can bring more to a debate than this. Equating political correctness with the inquisition just makes people look dumb. Sound bites are easily found in today's western media, but even the minimum amount of scrutiny show these comments to be silly.

[Super Hans]

Of course you hear the argument that free-speech must be protected and that allowing the hate-mongers a platform will eventually lead to them realising the error of their ways as they see reason. This is not my belief.

Finally, the crux of the matter. The coalition of nutters foisting this agenda on the vast majority of us that don't want or need it, think they are doing it for our own good.

Imposing ideology on others is called fascism, innit?

Buchanan says in his book The Death of the West: "Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism, a regime to punish dissent and to stigmatize social heresy as the Inquisition punished religious heresy. Its trademark is intolerance."(p. 89).

I'd say extremism.

I haven't read that particularly book, but would urge the PC thugs out there to extend their reading material a little. I often look on in amazement when they contend all the world's problems can be solved if we just, like, learn to love each other, man.

If they believe this they need to learn a little more about history.

[Super Hans]

I havent read this thread for a while but i noticed scanning through that the racism word pops up an awful lot!

Yup. It is a great shame. The word "racism" has been scattergunned to death. It simply has no meaning or resonance any more.

[garro]

Of course you hear the argument that free-speech must be protected and that allowing the hate-mongers a platform will eventually lead to them realising the error of their ways as they see reason. This is not my belief.

Finally, the crux of the matter. The coalition of nutters foisting this agenda on the vast majority of us that don't want or need it, think they are doing it for our own good.

Imposing ideology on others is called fascism, innit?

Buchanan says in his book The Death of the West: "Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism, a regime to punish dissent and to stigmatize social heresy as the Inquisition punished religious heresy. Its trademark is intolerance."(p. 89).

I'd say extremism.

I haven't read that particularly book, but would urge the PC thugs out there to extend their reading material a little. I often look on in amazement when they contend all the world's problems can be solved if we just, like, learn to love each other, man.

If they believe this they need to learn a little more about history.

I think that it is interesting that you would both quote a book by a man who admits that he admired Hitler.

[Super Hans]

Either that, or...... It's that recurring theme again.... Imagined excesses of Political Correctness.

That is a risible line of debate, and one which can be casually dropped into practically any discussion to gain cheap laughs.

[Super Hans]

Of course you hear the argument that free-speech must be protected and that allowing the hate-mongers a platform will eventually lead to them realising the error of their ways as they see reason. This is not my belief.

Finally, the crux of the matter. The coalition of nutters foisting this agenda on the vast majority of us that don't want or need it, think they are doing it for our own good.

Imposing ideology on others is called fascism, innit?

Buchanan says in his book The Death of the West: "Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism, a regime to punish dissent and to stigmatize social heresy as the Inquisition punished religious heresy. Its trademark is intolerance."(p. 89).

I'd say extremism.

I haven't read that particularly book, but would urge the PC thugs out there to extend their reading material a little. I often look on in amazement when they contend all the world's problems can be solved if we just, like, learn to love each other, man.

If they believe this they need to learn a little more about history.

I think that it is interesting that you would both quote a book by a man who admits that he admired Hitler.

The genius of the PC thug.

I say I've not read the book, yet get labeled a nazi. It is pitiful devices like this that turn so many people off your cause. You do more to promote racism than the National Front.

[LadyHeather]

Why would you then endorse a book you haven't read? it doesn't say much for comprehension of the subject if you have neither read the book nor are aware of the agenda of the author.

Edited December 17, 2008 by LadyHeather

[Super Hans]

Why would you then endorse a book you haven't read? it doesn't say much for comprehension of the subject if you have neither read the book nor are aware of the agenda of the author.

What are you on about? Can you actually read?

[mahtin]

I think that it is interesting that you would both quote a book by a man who admits that he admired Hitler.

Well of course Buchanan could easily be described as a bigot.

The quote was simply lifted from Wikipedia's entry for pc, and intended to illustrate extremism, a tendency I see in the more vocal members of the pc brigade.

I seriously doubt that either of us will alter the other's perception, garro, so will propose to agree to disagree.

Have fun continuing to post

[garro]

Of course you hear the argument that free-speech must be protected and that allowing the hate-mongers a platform will eventually lead to them realising the error of their ways as they see reason. This is not my belief.

Finally, the crux of the matter. The coalition of nutters foisting this agenda on the vast majority of us that don't want or need it, think they are doing it for our own good.

Imposing ideology on others is called fascism, innit?

Buchanan says in his book The Death of the West: "Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism, a regime to punish dissent and to stigmatize social heresy as the Inquisition punished religious heresy. Its trademark is intolerance."(p. 89).

I'd say extremism.

I haven't read that particularly book, but would urge the PC thugs out there to extend their reading material a little. I often look on in amazement when they contend all the world's problems can be solved if we just, like, learn to love each other, man.

If they believe this they need to learn a little more about history.

I think that it is interesting that you would both quote a book by a man who admits that he admired Hitler.

The genius of the PC thug.

I say I've not read the book, yet get labeled a nazi. It is pitiful devices like this that turn so many people off your cause. You do more to promote racism than the National Front.

Why would you want people to read Pat Buchanan if you haven't even read him? Why would an obviously British person want others to read a book by a man who has great sympathy for the IRA and blames Britain for World War 2????

Edited December 17, 2008 by garro

[Super Hans]

Of course you hear the argument that free-speech must be protected and that allowing the hate-mongers a platform will eventually lead to them realising the error of their ways as they see reason. This is not my belief.

Finally, the crux of the matter. The coalition of nutters foisting this agenda on the vast majority of us that don't want or need it, think they are doing it for our own good.

Imposing ideology on others is called fascism, innit?

Buchanan says in his book The Death of the West: "Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism, a regime to punish dissent and to stigmatize social heresy as the Inquisition punished religious heresy. Its trademark is intolerance."(p. 89).

I'd say extremism.

I haven't read that particularly book, but would urge the PC thugs out there to extend their reading material a little. I often look on in amazement when they contend all the world's problems can be solved if we just, like, learn to love each other, man.

If they believe this they need to learn a little more about history.

I think that it is interesting that you would both quote a book by a man who admits that he admired Hitler.

The genius of the PC thug.

I say I've not read the book, yet get labeled a nazi. It is pitiful devices like this that turn so many people off your cause. You do more to promote racism than the National Front.

Why would you want people to read Pat Buchanan if you haven't even read him? Why would an obviously British person want others to read a book by a man who has great sympathy for the IRA and blames Britain for World War 2????

Jesus wept! Can't you read either? Where did I say anything about reading any Pat Buchanan? {Edit: shit! just noticed I wrote 'particularly' rather than the intended 'particular'. I'm sure there must be a correctional facility you can march me off to.}

Why are YOU so keen to out people as racists? Come on, admit it - you LOVE it, don't you? Gives you a right kick I'll bet. I have often observed the biggest PC thugs used to be the biggest racists...

Edited December 17, 2008 by Super Hans

[garro]

Of course you hear the argument that free-speech must be protected and that allowing the hate-mongers a platform will eventually lead to them realising the error of their ways as they see reason. This is not my belief.

Finally, the crux of the matter. The coalition of nutters foisting this agenda on the vast majority of us that don't want or need it, think they are doing it for our own good.

Imposing ideology on others is called fascism, innit?

Buchanan says in his book The Death of the West: "Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism, a regime to punish dissent and to stigmatize social heresy as the Inquisition punished religious heresy. Its trademark is intolerance."(p. 89).

I'd say extremism.

I haven't read that particularly book, but would urge the PC thugs out there to extend their reading material a little. I often look on in amazement when they contend all the world's problems can be solved if we just, like, learn to love each other, man.

If they believe this they need to learn a little more about history.

I think that it is interesting that you would both quote a book by a man who admits that he admired Hitler.

The genius of the PC thug.

I say I've not read the book, yet get labeled a nazi. It is pitiful devices like this that turn so many people off your cause. You do more to promote racism than the National Front.

Why would you want people to read Pat Buchanan if you haven't even read him? Why would an obviously British person want others to read a book by a man who has great sympathy for the IRA and blames Britain for World War 2????

Jesus wept! Can't you read either? Where did I say anything about reading any Pat Buchanan?

Why are YOU so keen to out people as racists? Come on, admit it - you LOVE it, don't you? Gives you a right kick I'll bet. I have often observed the biggest PC thugs used to be the biggest racists...

Yes, I can read. If you were not referring to mahtin's post and the book he mentioned then why quote his mention of the book? And why then suggest that people read more? I suggest that you don't quote somebody if you are not referring to that particular post; as it is confusing.

Edited December 17, 2008 by garro

[bonobo]

Bonobo, I have not accused you or racism or a denial that racism is wrong.

What I have said is you (and others) blame Political Correctness where there is no evidence of Political Correctness.

Here is the evidence... You stated:

However, some 15 or 20 years later, in another Iowa school (in Iowa City) a teacher, trying to teach students about prejudice (the entire school was white), put students into two groups based on eye color. On one day, the students of one group were put in the back of the class, made to eat lunch last, had a shorter recess, were told the other group was smarter, etc. On the next day, the roles were reversed. The "oppressed" group scored lower on quizzes each day and showed diminished social skills. When interviewed later, the students all expressed a distaste for any prejudice and avowed that they would never show it.

Good thing, right? Well, this teacher was fired. It seems people spouting the PC mantra thought you cannot tell anyone with green eyes they were not as smart, you could not give students with brown eyes a shorter recess.

The article you have provided does not say the teacher was fired but it does provide evidence that the attacks on the teacher and her family where of a racist and bigoted nature (Nothing at all to do with Political Correctness and everything to do with bigots having their world view challenged).

If you are going to change my world view (it is open for changing), do not provide evidence that supports the view I have.

OK, One more time, although I am tilting at windmills here.

I doubt that you can ever get a dvd of the show, but it may appear on television every once in awhile. Watch it, and then listen to the comments.

If you listen to the comments as to why some people were upset about her methods, then some people gave reasons which fall directly into the PC panalopy of contentions. Yes, other people seemed to be just biggoted and didn't like the fact that prejudice just might be wrong. But their actions and statements have no bearing on the fact that many other people felt her exercises were not what we would today call PC.

Proving that A exists does not disprove that B exists as well. You seem to latch onto some part of an issue like a bulldog, ignoring anything which would affect your world view. It's like talking to a stone wall.

So be it. This closemindedness is your reputation here in TV, but you are certainly entitled to your views, and I respect that entitlement even if I can't agree with the views themselves. And even if you can't repsect others' views as well. And with that, I will quit posting on the Iowa exercise in teaching about prejudice.

Have a nice day!

[DC1066]

Wow, this one has come a long way from a little troll.

The world is way too PC and saying so doesn't have to have any racist overtones whatsoever.

The one that summed it up for me, was when it made the news a couple of years ago, that a local council had removed from a school a book of nursery rhymes because, it feared the story of the '3 little pigs' might offend Muslims who don't eat pork.

When interviewed, one of the local Muslim community leaders, who had more sense than the council, had no objections whatsoever, saying, "we don't eat pigs, but have no problem with singing about them."

And if everyone is starting to throw around quotes, as Sun Tzu said, "to protect everything is to protect nothing."

[bonobo]

The one that summed it up for me, was when it made the news a couple of years ago, that a local council had removed from a school a book of nursery rhymes because, it feared the story of the '3 little pigs' might offend Muslims who don't eat pork.

When interviewed, one of the local Muslim community leaders, who had more sense than the council, had no objections whatsoever, saying, "we don't eat pigs, but have no problem with singing about them."

And if everyone is starting to throw around quotes, as Sun Tzu said, "to protect everything is to protect nothing."

Two great quotes.

[TheWalkingMan]

Anyone who models himself after Huey P. Newton and the Black Panther Party would be pretty certain to agree with Garro. I'm sure that you two have a lot in common!

...

Huey P. Newton, I remember the day he was gunned down in West Oakland, about 200 meters from my parked car. I also remember being the recipient of the free breakfast program for kids with skint parents. Great hot chocolate!

TheWalkingMan