Recent Visa-changes On Land-border Entry

[Ricardo]

One of the last acts of the former-government, reported & discussed with some dismay on the Visas-forum, was to change the rules for land-entry visa-on-arrival, so that new-arrivals get only 14/15 days, rather than the 30 given for arrivals-by-air.

Many backpackers and gap-year travelers, exploring S.E.Asia for an extended-visit, have previously chosen to fly into Bangkok and then use Thailand as a base, from which to make side-trips to Laos & Cambodia or Malaysia & Singapore, even to Burma.

This has been good for Thailand's economy, since while here they spend money (although agreed not so much per-diem as 3-night 5-star tourists) and create jobs, but also good for the travelers, since they encounter more 'real' local-people for longer, and may perhaps get a slightly better understanding of the country & culture than the short-stay hi-so elite-tourists so beloved by the TAT marketing-chiefs.

I feel that one effect of the latest changes may be to deter these tourists, making them feel less welcome, or prompting them to use K.L. or Singapore as alternative gateways to the region. The effect on Thai tourism & jobs can not be positive, and this when the sector is already in trouble, for other reasons (global-economy, airport-closure, overseas-media reporting, etc).

So I view the changes as being harmful to Thailand. Indeed I would argue that it would be a very good time to loosen the visa-requirements, rather than tightening them, and hope that the new government might do so.

What do other TV-members think ?

[keestha]

You are so right, and I would be surprised if there would be anybody on this board disagreeing with you.

In my resort, I already had several people who entered Thailand through the border with Malaysia, who were surprised and dismayed they only received a 15 days stamp. They had to alter their travelling plans to fit in visa runs through Ranong, Chiang Rai/Mae Sai or wherever.

These people might not be "quality tourists", but most of them are young, and not everybody is born with a golden spoon in his mouth. If they like Thailand now, they might be coming back with their families in a few years time, and have real money to spend. Besides that (tired old refrain) they are leaving their money with local guesthouses and noodle shops, whilst much of the money shelled out by package tourists stays with British, German or Swedish tour operators, and possibly with foreign owned hotel chains.

Edited December 21, 2008 by keestha

[tracer5050]

Lets hope the new govnerment will put it back to 30 days or even make it better.

[mommysboy]

50/50

[BeauKarl]

Any restriction on entering a country hurts tourism in one way or another IMO.

They might not hurt the economy so bad as they tink everybody will pay to get visas, but they hurt many workers in the tourism business.

Some people might not like border runners, (because they think they are riff raff, illegal teachers,...) but anybody who makes money out of an illegal activity will somehopw find a way to keep on doing it.

The new rules have no positive impact on tourism.

[ukrules]

Any restriction on entering a country hurts tourism in one way or another IMO.

This is definitely the case. The only reason I don't go into China, Vietnam or India so often is due to the hassle, time and cost involved in getting the visas. I will generally go to a visa free country over a country that requires me to jump through various hoops and pay an entrance fee just to be allowed in.

[Ricardo]

You are so right, and I would be surprised if there would be anybody on this board disagreeing with you.

I must admit, I am impressed, as I expected at least the odd flame against backpackers !

I guess that most of use once were budget-travelers, whatever we may now be able to afford, and that we therefore have some sympathy for them, quite apart from the economic arguement for letting them stay longer !

Since we know that the authorities may sometimes look at TV, one might hope that they pick up on this issue, although I may be too much of an optimist here. Think positive !

It can't hurt anyway, if something we would all agree with, is nevertheless spelt out to them here ... it might not be so obvious to someone who hasn't also traveled the world on a tight budget !

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Any restriction on entering a country hurts tourism in one way or another IMO.

This is definitely the case. The only reason I don't go into China, Vietnam or India so often is due to the hassle, time and cost involved in getting the visas. I will generally go to a visa free country over a country that requires me to jump through various hoops and pay an entrance fee just to be allowed in.

Such as the UK.

[Hawkup2000]

Well, I imagine that people who have visarun companies consider the changes a turn for the worse.

[Geekfreaklover]

Well, I imagine that people who have visarun companies consider the changes a turn for the worse.

I don't think the policy will change anytime soon. More important things to deal with.

The visarun companies will still be laughing 2 times a month rather than 1.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Geekfreaklover

[Scott]

Personally, I think it's a good thing. 15 days is long enough to have these people around. If they want to stay longer, should get a proper visa.

[wintermute]

It will have little to no effect on regular tourism. These rules were meant to prevent migrant workers from setting up shop indefinitely in Thailand. The backpackers and other folks can still do a little 15 day border run which should easily gives a full month to explore Thailand. That's plenty of time and I don't buy the argument that Thailand is missing out on some incredible benefits by having gap year kids around.

[keestha]

Personally, I think it's a good thing. 15 days is long enough to have these people around.

Quite a few of the 1 million+ Thai people who depend on tourism for a living might disagree.

Assuming you mean "backpackers" with "these people", well my backpacking days are long over, but still I don't feel that I am in any way superior to them just because I climbed up the social ladder a little bit when decennia passed by since I ditched my backpack.

[Geekfreaklover]

It is a shame that some people see the potential loss of backpackers as a personal benefit to themselves or the country to which they consider home.

I am not the largest backpacker fan. But I have been one. And I was one recently during a trip to Nepal.

My younger brother is backpacking around the world next year and I hope that he spends as much time in the Thai kingdom as possible.

With the credit crunch and currency problems I think that the tourist industry will have to wise up to the fact that backpackers will always come to Thailand. Whereas the two weekers will simply go elsewhere.

[Ricardo]

It will have little to no effect on regular tourism. These rules were meant to prevent migrant workers from setting up shop indefinitely in Thailand. The backpackers and other folks can still do a little 15 day border run which should easily gives a full month to explore Thailand. That's plenty of time and I don't buy the argument that Thailand is missing out on some incredible benefits by having gap year kids around.

I agree that this doesn't affect the 2-week package-tourist arriving by air.

The migrant/illegal-worker problem could be solved simply by requiring arrivals to demonstrate that they have money/credit-cards to cover the length of their planned stay.

I don't agree that a month, or 30-days VOA plus 15-days from a border-crossing is anything like enough, to see Thailand, I still have lots more to see after 20+ years ! Some of these people are on a gap-year trip, and could be persuaded to spend a few months ( and significantly more money !) here, if only the visa-regs weren't so off-putting.

I would also emphasise the potential benefits to the kids of spending time here, this is a very special place, and who knows what effect you may be having on their lives ? They're also likely, in later more-affluent years, to return with their families and spend more money, if they enjoyed their first trip here.

As to getting "a proper visa" (earlier poster), wouldn't it benefit Thailand's economy if there were a reduction of barriers to entry, rather than the current highly-restrictive system ? Just because we residents/expat-workers have to jump through hoops, doesn't mean the situation has to be that way, for people who are only ever going to be here for a few months. A 60-day or 90-day Visa-On-Arrival would be a step in the right direction ! The 15-day land-border VOA was a wrong one !

[mommysboy]

The 30 day visa waiver has turned in to a 30 month visa waiver in some cases. It's for package tourists, eg, a family of 4, or a single guy taking a vacation. There's already an extension facility.

If somebody wants to stay longer then they can get tourist visas on a rolling basis - it's cheaper too.

It gets messy when the rules become oblique, and one rule for this person one rule for that: so 1 - 30 day stamp on arrival when coming from home country would be better.

Will the new rule harm tourism? Yes a little I think, because Thailand is associated with freedom- one more nail in the coffin maybe.

[Mobi]

As I said recently on another thread, it will be quite a while - maybe years, before Thailand regains credibility as a High end destination for the well healed and their families.

The five star hotels are suffering the most with only 10% occupancy in Bangkok this month, and with 2009 bookings almost at a standstill.

The 'lower end' hotels and guest houses are doing somewhat better, and the authorities should realise that this end of the market will recover the quickest, and should be given priority.

This because the well heeled and families cannot afford to get stuck here, and they value the safety of themselves and their children.

On the other hand, the back backers are, by nature, more adventurous, and will not so easily be scared off by recent events - indeed it may put and additional touch of excitement to their trip.

As several have pointed out, today's backpackers are often tomorrow's high end tourists, and Thailand should do everything possible to welcome these people, as it is on these that the future of tourism in the country may depend.

BTW, no one has mentioned the removal of the 6 month restriction, which for some, will be welcomed. People living near land borders will have no problems renewing their visas every 15 days, indefinitely, and there is at least one firm offering a round trip, by air, to Phnom Penh, one night at a good hotel, and two 30 day tourist visas - all for 12,500 Baht. That's not too bad.

[kalakukko]

Could someone please help me with the following problem:

I arrived to Bangkok by plane on 16.12, getting the 30 days stamp and thus having no problem with my flight back home on the 11.1. But, now that I came to visit Cambodia for a few days and will be going back to Thailand tomorrow (23.12) across the land border Poipet-Aranyaprathet, I am wondering if they allow me to entry.

That is to say, did my 30 days stamp expire, when I stepped to the Cambodian side? Are they strict with seeing the departure tickets on this border crossing? Actually, I was supposed to continue to Malaysia by train on 2.1. but I don't have any kind of proof to show them.

Thanks for any quick replies

[MJP]

So it says 'land entry'.

Hmmm . . . .

Now what if you got a boat from Cambodia and came in by sea?

Does that count?

[mommysboy]

"As several have pointed out, today's backpackers are often tomorrow's high end tourists, and Thailand should do everything possible to welcome these people, as it is on these that the future of tourism in the country may depend.". So says Mobi.

Get it translated and sent to the head of tourism, or whoever.

Thailand, pride comes before a fall.

Are you really in a position to turn anyone away based on the fact that they are not 5*.?

[BugJackBaron]

The 30 day visa waiver has turned in to a 30 month visa waiver in some cases. It's for package tourists, eg, a family of 4, or a single guy taking a vacation. There's already an extension facility.

If somebody wants to stay longer then they can get tourist visas on a rolling basis - it's cheaper too.

It gets messy when the rules become oblique, and one rule for this person one rule for that: so 1 - 30 day stamp on arrival when coming from home country would be better.

Will the new rule harm tourism? Yes a little I think, because Thailand is associated with freedom- one more nail in the coffin maybe.

Look at it this way: the 90 days in 6 months rule has been DROPPED.

Obviously the whole thing wasn't working.

It took about one year for them to discover this and change it but in a manner to "save face".

I predict in another year it will quietly be extended again to 30 days when they discover

this fiddling is doing more damage to Thailand's economy than good.

[tracer]

Over the years I have seen many backpackers who were on a trip from Europe to Australa or New Zealand and Thailand was for them a MUST. However I can see that if they are going to be fleeced they likely will travel on to Malaysia (Penang) before going to Sumatra... Its a kind of standard route or anyway it was with them ending up in Singapore, getting a visum for indonesia etc.

Secondly there are many retired people living or trying to live in Thailand and it should be recognised that they are good for the local economy even if not all are staying in a 5-star hotel...

Personally I wouldnt stay in such hotel if they offered it free!

They may look nice on travel brochures but personally I prefer a smaller place and to spend the money in a better way!! After all I worked for my money and I love to have the fun of spending it the way I want and NOT as wanted by some politicians...

That recent change is fixable quite easy, both by making visa for students / cheaper/easier.

Passports have a name /day of birth and as Thailand sticks all those details in the immigration computer its quite easy to check on.

In most countries study is about 5 years so give them 5 years cheaper rate!

Retired people: one has several categories but it should be recognised that many either visit here every year as its cheaper and warmer then at home (which by the way is disappearing as reason due to 'tourist' prices being charged even to your round retired people.)

Secondly being older they normally have problems with legs etc so sending them to a border is for many not a good solution!

Friends of mine are end 70's, live in Europe for 1/2 year and then stay 4-6 months in Thailand and they already were complaining that the current financial problems means that this could be their last visit!

There should really be an easier way to get people like this an extension or a visum for the whole period! Most of the required details are in the passport!

[ThaiEye]

I think it may have a slight affect in the short-run but in the long-run people will just get used to the new regulation and things will return to normal.

Thailand had a 15-day VOA policy for years and years and people were used to it. People planning on staying longer than 15 days simply got themselves a Tourist Visa before they came. Now, things are even better than in the old days - Tourist Visas can be had in just 24 hours in Vientiane (a place which is very worth going).

Soon, all will be forgetten and people wont even be mentioning the change.

[thaibeachlovers]

There has been much said concerning the effect of the change, but does anyone know the REAL reason for bringing the change in? I gather it was brought in unanounced just in time to catch many tourists diverted to other countries by the airport closure as they entered Thailand overland. The fact they went ahead at that time would indicate to me that there must either be some really important reason for it, or the officials concerned must be some of the most ignorant, useless bunch of morons on the face of the planet!

[Ricardo]

Joined-up government is a great blessing, which most (or all ?) farang countries do not enjoy, why would you expect Thailand to be any different ?

I would suspect that foreign-visitors are viewed as a potential-problem, to be controlled by the Immigration Police, rather than an economic benefit to be maximised.

The timing of these partly-retrograde changes, in the last few days before a change of government, is much more likely to be down to the laws of cock-up & chance, than to some planned strategy.

[MeetJohnDoe]

I agree with those who don't think it's a big deal. People, students, gap-years, whatever, if they are planning extensive travels around SE Asia should come prepared with the necessary visas. Even if they fly into Thailand without one, they still get 30 days on arrival from most First World countries. If they come armed with a T-visa, they'll get 60 days. That's plenty of time to bum around the country. If they plan to use LOS as a "base," they should get a multi-entry visa or the 15-day entries will be fine for them as there is now no limitation on the number of them.

So what's the problem?

[geeky]

you can still get a 2 month tourist visa with 1 month extension; that are 90 days, not 15 !! only after that you need to re-entry by plain to get a free 30 days visa ... so, what's the problem?