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High Security Myths


Beardog

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Got robbed in our house last night . The thieves made it through jumping over an electricified chain link fence via using a rubber mat thrown over it. They just climbed over the fence after cutting the power . The secondary power came on the alarms went off & the flashing strobes installed via infrared sensors. No one came to investigate. The 3 cameras were stolen along with the unit recording it. The only failsafe I neglected was the silent part of the alarm. We pay the local police to watch the place as well.

Our dog was sleeping in the front of the house & they breeched the rear (which stupid me) left open so all they had to do was slit the screen & open the sliding bolt.

Luckily I got a hard head – I heard the door get breeched (only 4 meters away)

& by the time I turned from the computer I got smacked on the top of my head by a super cheap Charlie frying pan….Am very fortunate to not have them use the cast iron skillet!

They had a 9mm. or a n older 60’s army style issue colt 45.

All they got was an older Ipod 2 cellphones Alisa’s gold necklace & ring taken & a camera 4 years old & a very distinct ornamental semitar made in Toledo Spain. I gave them my wallet but they lost it when they ransacked my bed under the mattress. It only had 120 baht as I was going to transfer money the next day & didn’t need any funds till the morrow. All they got was about 100 baht in baht coins & 20 baht of mixed 14& ½ baht coins. These idiots didn’t use masks accept 1 of the 3 involved.

Even down to taking the last 6 pack of chang & dropping 1 (with prints on it) on the way out. 2 times I could have disarmed the gunman ( I trained in disarming &

Was not really afraid as I have been robbed 3 times before, along with 2 botched foiled attempts.The joker with the gun uncocked the hammer on the piece & was not watching me to closely. That only left 1 possible thief with the possibility of a gun & the fact of having to shoot the 3 guys if I got the piece away from them, with my girl in the bedroom that would probably get hit with a bullet thru the wall. I decided to just do the right thing & not be a hero since it was evident they did not intend on killing Alisa myself or my dog & just wanted the loot . Today I went down to Sattahib & made a positive id on 2 of the men they have been chasing for 3-4 months. They are locals here & must know my dog as he usually barks like hel_l when I lock the outside doors.Unfortunately I trained him to be a guard dog when the doors are locked. Doors not locked(no ticky no laundry). I try with puppy #2 a very hungry Rotwieler trained to eat limbs. My dog will not fall for the meat over the fence trick.

They also hit a high security farang village & the top government officials son earlier in the day. I think the my phone they are able to track through the gps& it has (supposedly found its way to a phone shop . The rest forget about it. I don’t expect to see any return – hopefully a capture as these are some rough times a coming so buckle up & keep your eyes peeled & buddy up with your neighbors on a neighborhood watch. I think this is the best deterrent.

The good part is the idiots left 1 excellent palm print & 4 other prints I had to point out to them. I was not surprised when they only took one print. In the U.S. they go over everything with a fine tooth comb. It was definitely a cased job as earier in the week we had 2 incidents of people sopping & surveying the land from up the street. Just far enough so the cameras didn’t catch their faces.

Dumbest crooks I have ever seen no gloves 2 of them no disguise. & leaving prints everywhere. I was told get a gun & make sure to kill every one of the rat bastards.I also found out if they breach your property in Thailand you can shoot to kill when they are on premise. The only flaw with a gun is you have to have it next to you if they are to close- no one else in the house as a 45 or 9mm. bullet will penetrate any type of brick(short of stone) while they had done this before & were far from pros they were very good on quickness to get in. We have a 1 story small house. If you think your secure think again. I worked a while for California judicial & have been hired to inspect for insurance companies as well. My 3 marine magnesium flare guns were stored in the shed outside. So was worthless in this case. Much better than a gun as it burns the assailant like a microwave…a sure slow agonizing death & not much to burn up in a cement structure While the Richard Prior Marathon is going down.

Glad to be alive. I guess this cat only has 4 lives left. It was better I was up as I would have came out with knives at a gunfight!

Watch your <deleted>! & I did have several other very unconventional theft deterrents that only one of he inanely stupid cops almost triggered. :o

2 acted ike possible yabba heads & the gunman was seemingly straight.

They even left my meds in the fridge. All in all being alive to talk about it is a start to a very good new year, as it was on a minor amount of money & not deaths involved.

Doors are now secured & I am not as trusting in our place a kilo away from civilization.

Sorry bout the long post!

Have a happy new year to all!!!!!!!

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Nice report.

You are lucky to escape the whole robbery unhurt. I think some Thai guys just pick on farang apartments and houses knowing that the Thai police won't take any report seriously. And when the recession kicks in here in Thailand, it's going to get a whole lot worse.

Personally I would not like to live in an isolated property, better to have a secure condo apartment where what you suffered is highly unlikely.

Keep us all updated on developments and these criminals 500 baht fines. :o

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I seem to recall a case of a guy who confronted some burglars in his house, chased them out of the house and attacked one of them in the street. If I remember correctly he got in trouble basically because the attack happened on the street, outside of his property. The suggestion was that if he'd attacked him in the house it would have been OK.

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I have been told that it would get you in a lot of trouble to defend yourself with or without a weapon if you are not Thai.

Does anyone know anything different?

Definitely, it is nigh to impossible to get a gun license as a foreigner.

Only option is to get a license in your wife's name and train her to use it properly (although maybe not such a good idea for some of the Farang/Thai couples :o ). For Thai nationals the law is actually very forgiving from the moment the perpetrators are inside your house.

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Sattahib claims no fines or jail time to kill with their own weapon or yours if they walk on your premise to do harm. According to the police Alisa puts the gun in her name we both train & license to kill. I already am very good at weaponry but can use some practice. t5hey offered a nice glock for 50,000 baht. My bro in Nevada already bought me one for 12000 baht $300 U.S. but I have been hesitating getting one as I am not to sure it is a great idea to own one as things can go awry if they get control of the weapon. I have no qualms about using one in self defense. Had to go through 6 court sessions for using one on a robbery on my dads greyhound bus depot. He lost his knee due to the cross filed hollow points I made for both pieces & 138 stitches from the plate glass window that nearly severed his spine. He was in jail when I left Wisconsin.

I am not proud of doing the deed but I had trained vigorously 4 times a week 3 hrs. at a crack along with being an avid deer hunter. I am over killing but if it comes down to doing it or hunting for food if it ever came down to it. I would.

I like Thai food but human definite not the food source.

Sattahib kind of has their own John Wayne kind of style..........now if it is really true I have no clue as I still never trust the police in any country- especially here as things change so immediately in Thailand.

The farang village got hit pretty hard this weekend right up the road from me & the motorbike repair shop got 2 bikes stoen by what the police believe are the same guys were ID'D by the shop . Even down to the type of gun.

strange part about it is I have had a permit to carry a concealed weapon since I was a kid & was not afraid. Concerned for the safety of my family & Dog but not freaking out as thieves usually just want to get the goods & get killing usually is not what they have in mind.

Hopefully I decide on no on the gun.But if I do I will build a dynamite range with a huge damper box in case the ol lady is a shitty shot!

Thanks for the good wishes may all us be as lucky if the unlikely event occurs!

Edited by Beardog
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I have been hesitating getting one as I am not to sure it is a great idea to own one as things can go awry if they get control of the weapon. I have no qualms about using one in self defense. Had to go through 6 court sessions for using one on a robbery on my dads greyhound bus depot. He lost his knee due to the cross filed hollow points I made for both pieces & 138 stitches from the plate glass window that nearly severed his spine. He was in jail when I left Wisconsin.

I bet dad will never <deleted> with you again! :o

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Somehow I think he's talking about the theef that tried to rob his dad that ended up in a world of hurt....At least I hope that was the case :o

Yea that was the case . the thief no walk anymore or at least without a prosthetic device .if he didn't get his in the pokey as for me I suffered many years of wrath for not listening to the old man in using the guns to shoot a robber. I was young & felt justified & puked my guts out in front of all the patrons after they got up. It wasn't a pretty site.

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That really is a scary story Mr. B D, having seen your place would agree that you are a little out of the way but for them to come prepared with a rubber mat to throw over your electric fence seems to beg the question who knows about it being wired up?

That big old tapioca field at the back of you is also good cover for bad people as well. :o

If you have a 220v fence around the property and that did not keep them out I have to wonder what will keep them out next time?

Anyway pleased you are both OK and I hope you and the missess have got over the trauma a little bit by now.

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not a good thing to happen,glad u ok....wheres ur nearest neighbour?

it wasnt really a high tech problem(as they just slid the bolt) and all those gadgets only help hinder them anyway and if someone is determined then there is no real measures you can take to secure 100% ,without spending a fortune anyway.they were obviously determined!!! and sounds like a harrowing experience even if you have been thru similar before.

if i was in a very isolated spot then i think the gun would be considered as a real option but as you said you wouldnt have been able to use it in this case.......maybe as they were leaving could shoot the mothers in the back!

you did the right thing i think in this case.......and i dont keep big cash or anything expensive at home worth dying over either.

they knew you were there and came prepared,more of this will be happening now that it seems there is less money about and the yabba heads still want there high at any cost.

take care

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Dumbest crooks I have ever seen no gloves 2 of them no disguise. & leaving prints everywhere

This really shows the desperation for money these poor Thais have. I think you did the right thing just giving them the stuff and letting them leave. If you had shot all 3 of them then the next batch of desperate thieves will not hit anyone with a frying pan, they would simply just kill everyone in the house, so I think you did the right thing!

And if you got away with shooting them, then how can you ever be sure that their families will not come after you. Remember these people are so far down that they really have nothing to lose.

Losing a few bath is nothing against losing your life. You did good Beardog :-)

After reading this I am putting up security cams - I want to have two fake cams out on the wall and four hidden micro cams placed around the house and garden. Lets see if they can figure that out :-D

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Thanks,

Going to Pattaya today & looking at high power halogens to put up on 2 rai of the power poles & Changing the lights to more responsive & much higher wattage.I am putting a plate over the sliding bolt that will cut an intruders arm to shreads & will l

leave the back door inaccesible Also having an auto silent system that goes to my nearest neighbors house & both his mobiles . We both are installing the system as he has been breeched as well.I realize the fence is not going to help much & ours is only 1&1/2 meter high, but Daves neighbors house near Silverlake vineyard has a ridiculous 12 meter fence they scaled the wall with a (looked like grappling hook marks) & cleaned his estate & it did have an amazing amount of creature features for an expat living in Thailand. They booked out his couches & left a double bed in the guest room. Nabbed his security system as well.

I could change the fence over to an industrial security style fence that would kill my dog & every living creature that brushes it- but I would have to be robbed 10-20 times to pay for itself & I don't want to feel like I am in San Quentin prison. I might go for the Glock been reduced to 30,000 by the officer that was most helpful.I wonder what evidence dept it was stolen from!

The gun seems iffy although logic says it would be the best option, the way it went down I wouls still not be able to wield the weapon unless I wear it on my shoulder. the hip holster to slow.

Anyway I didn't move out here to be a gunslinger & this happens in the U.S. as well.

I am moving on as it is only money & to me an irritation. at least they didn't harm anyone kill the dog & trash the house.

The second house will be a lot more secure with a secondary area that will actually be an inner wall that locks the intruder inside.

I am sure it will be very costly but this system works well in industrial security in America. Once the rats in the cage -the heat can scoop them up later & I probably (if it happens again) won't be prone as you all say to a family retributive strike.

Thailand is certainly an adventure, but so far theft here is not as bad as the U.S.

One thing for sure with the way of the crises going on -it will most likely get worse.

Buckle up for the next wave. I will still pursue finding which person that worked for us set us up or the guys we identified to be the ones that cased the place earlier in the week. This has its flaws I know as well if they do catch the rats I still will face a possible attack from family or friends. The police now patrol Guys father(head government mucky muck & our area often)

As much as I don't care for the police it is oddly comforting to see them often. I am realizing fully there is no real way to stop a thief - but I am intending on making it very difficult for them to get in. that is all one can do.

regards. By the way thanks for the good wishes!!!!!!!!!!! :o

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Well, at least we've determined how surplus arms are finding their way to the general populace,

the police are supplying them to supplement their income. :o Enough of this mickey-mouse

nonsense, it's time for punji sticks and tiger traps. Screw the modern electronics, cheaper too. :D

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Beardog,

I take it you have bars on all your windows & doors, do you think they would have breached the security of the house if you had locked the rear door with a decent padlock? Would you of heard them trying to break the bars? (asuming your place is like my place where it would be very difficult to get bolt cutters through the barwork to cut it).

Good thing you kept a calm head and no-one was hurt seriously, I am sure there are better ways to wake up then the pan on the head trick.

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Sorry to hear about your trouble Beardog, sounds like having lots of security is still never enough. :o

I gather that you were at your computer at the time of the attack and they came up behind you. Personally I don't like having my back exposed like that. If the set up is so that I don't have my back to a wall I place a small mirror somewhere in my eyeline so any movement behind atracts my attention.

Just my couple of bats worth.

Daffy

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Hats off to Sattahib police.

While I never had a strong affection for the cops growing up in the 60’s crowd in the U.S. I got to say the Sattahib police dept is the most logical & efficient group of officers. Within the second day & 8 visits 3 of them we went down to Sattahib they nailed 2 of 5 of the thieves off the mug shots. Alisa & I both agreed if we could not be positive not to pick them out. 2 of 3 were positive ID’s. it turned out to be 5 in on the heist. 2 of the pumpui man 7 women people we saw earlier in the day stopped & I gave directions to the wat. They were the lookout while the girl reparked the motorbikes in the front of the house. If this was in America the gunman would be on Americas dumbest criminals.

The #1 smart officer new the IME on my phone would gps the coordinates to the location along with the idiots using the same sim card in the phone. I gather all ais to the number went through their office. The way they get a confession always is as we all guessed is a good old ass whipping. They always are reported to have had an bike accident. Truth of it is when we went to the station last night one officer was buzzing his 40,000 volt -80,000 volt stun gun & smiling.

On the table was a set of brass knuckles(not the crooks) which were not real brass. The gunmans right eye had been worked by the knuckles to get a confession of all 5 of the jerks. We will get both phones back- the camera was dropped & is worthless so that is a write off. The gold was only probably 25,000 at the time. That is going to be unrecoverable. The Ipod supposedly is at the 3rd assailants house.

& the kicker was dam_n Chinese can copy anything. The gun used was a copy of a browning 45 with the diameter of approx. 7 mm. It had a clip & a working hammer.

The only dead giveaway was the paint was pealing off & looked banged up.Guns use gun bluing . It gives the gun an oiling & keeps the finish as they are not painted. They shut the lites off so I couldn’t make out the fake gun. And I do know guns from my years in the Midwest on the shooting ranges with Green Bays finest. Most were 32 snubbies 38’s or 38 specials & the standard issue colt 45. I used to load most of the bullets for the force as a sideline & was capable of making extremely high loads that were always reliable. & I got good at making cross filed hollow points had the molds for most bullets.

Anyway # 2 man that hit me with the bullshit cheap Charlie frying pan & held us at bay with a somtom whacker(ours) was wrenching in pain from the electrocution & the sanding- looked like a waterboard treatment with sand. The cop with the stun gun affectionately & mockingly ripped his head by his hair & wiped off his face like he was his little baby so we could ID. Him It was him. He also was gloating the fact on the way out he was stealing my favorite dagger in my collection my dad got me in Spain(Which I will never see again Oh well. Last night we heard a random rifle shot. I believe was on of Pob Chokes security guards or another village around. I know the head master security is an off duty cop & seen his rifle when we live at Pob choke. It was definitely a rifle a pistol sounds much different than a long barrel on a gun.I just found out the Army was drilling & playing war games training were the shots from rifle & commotion we heard last night

I went outside with slicer & whaler. Whaler is an old whaling blade from Hawaii used to cut blubber whale meat & bone it is sharper than most German fine knives for cutlery.& Slicer has three curved blades used for disemboweling an opponent.

My Ol lady was furious that I was going out in the night to take care.

What she did not know is I night hunt for deer without any light & can see in pitch black very well & 3 years of arts training in disarming weapons along with other skills learned by California & Oregon’s # 1 military Martial arts masters that trained many divisions in the arts for Vietnam & Grenada & a little in desert storm.

He is still ranked #4 in the U.S. Since they didn’t have a real gun till they catch 4 &5. I also was trained for 3 years by a couple of Native American Indians in the art of sensing & tracking pray while blending in. Most of my friends were 5-10 years older returning from Vietnam & I learned defense & wit from them. If I hear a noise I will go out night hunting with my belt of 10 sherkins & my 2 buddies Whaler & Slicer & take care of business. I did the right thing by not disarming the gunman as I was correct there were more than 3 people at the scene & did not know if one of them had a piece.

Unfortunately alias & I will be on the Thai news channels along with the 2 assailants pointing the finger at them like you always see. I requested not to be in the cameras eye(not because I want to remain anonymous on the TV site) But it would be better if they waited till all 5 are caught. The upside is now we have 8 or more patrols a day.

And the worst part is not me . They screwed the top Governments son out of 30,000 baht ++ & I am sure he will want some more tougher interrogation! I did offer 4 times to have the jerkoffs alone in the room without cuffs to aid them in there interrogation. The cop with the stun gun was cool with it but his superior thought less of it & told me they are doing fine on the matter in Thai to Alisa & English to me.

So If it seems like the cops are never there for you sometimes there is a silver lining.

After we get back from Pattaya court I will set up 2 blinds just in case I have to night hunt. Unfortunately for the thieves there is no lawyer. The evidence & our word that’s that, no Appeal! Unlike other western cultures.

Where you get a jury trial & a chance to weasel out of the crime or prove innocence.

Apparently they will get 20 years plus for breaking in & entering assault with a deadly weapon & attempted murder rap + the burglary. Poor bastards They were so scared- I really did feel sorry for them both were 22 years old . the other 3 are 27-years old 7 the 2 pumpui’s I never saw one(the lady ) I saw the man briefly were both 42 years old & will probably die in jail.

I learned if you see anyone looking slightly suspicious take a picture with your cellphone or camera put It on your computer & make copies of the pics. Hide them in an iron clad place.

Do not be trusting with keeping your wallet & phones Ipods & whatever.

And watch out for the friendly chats as they case your joint out.

I wouldn’t go out of my way on this if I had a gun but I will defend my family my Girl & My son(Lucky…my golden retriever) if that’s what is required to rectify the situation.

Got the cops approval & they wished me happy hunting. I hope it is over cause I will not entertain buying a Glock till Alisa fully understands when you whip out a piece you shoot to kill immediately. Most screw ups are due to hesitation & the assailant gets control & you are the target.

All in all it’s a very good year & I still love Thailand.

2 of my old sparing buddies just offered to come out & assist if needed one is a green barrette. I told them to get your ass out here for some cocktails not for going into combat!

we got every security item except silent alarm. We now pay for extra security patrol as they are well worth it. Back up Yanmar diesel shared with neighbor tests fine. & sattahib has the rubber mat (large) as evidence.

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Beardog... Glad everything is working out and your family is safe. Great work by the police too.

PM me if you would like an additional idea on security. I was broke into a long time ago when I lived in Iowa, but the thief could not contend with the painful sound pressure levels he encountered.

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OMG-Beardog! :o(I hope I don't accidently stumble into your joint one night)

Glad it is all sorted for you!

Good to read about someone who has given the Police credit....obviously where credit was due! Some good, good ole fashion Police work done there - sounds like their crime spree may be over, should of stuck to flipping burgers (or whatever people flip here).

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1:20 pm Media circus & police arrived along with the 2 hosers to reenact the crime. My moment came & I told the dikhead that hit me with the frying pan it was his turn unfortunately the good #1 cop was absolutely a good cop & not corrupt in the least & got in the way of a blow to the head & a roundhouse kick & almost kicked one of the media crew.

I felt a little cheated but you should have seen both of the crooks cringe when I told them your turn. Alisa told me when they posed with the frying pan I was suppose to work him- but I think I realistically would have made it to court as a bad farang.

all the Thai neighbors ooohed & aahed when they saw me ready to get down.I would have been happy to take out the pan attackers knee out & leave him more than a 20 year stint. I guess that would be the equivalent to a non defense attack.

The #1 cop which wouldn't & won't accept a gifting I offered twice.

We get the phones back soon & an incredible experience. Not my first time (hopefully the last) Alisa's first eye opener to the cruel realities that do exist.

One of the officers told us he has a gun he can loan us if we want & I told him I would consider it, but there are some major pitfalls if you don't shoot to kill if brandishing a weapon.I guess they have not caught 3,4 &5.

As they were leaving they got another call in Bang Sare with a farang at gunpoint . I suspect 3,4 & 5 still at large are still on a spree.Alisa translated to them if they loan me a piece I would be glad to help. The sooner these fools go down the safer it will be in this once sleepy town.EDIT:

I forgot the best part of this event , the paper put me in as a race car driver off of a couple photos of running TRC cart cars – the next up is Formula #1. I wish I had my Southwest NASCAR pictures up when I subbed for Boris Said in 2002 at Sears Point or

Running one of the funny cars on the ¼ mile at NHRA the next week.

Actually I am a real nice guy just not to fond of thieves or people with a weapon pointed at me.

Tonight the army is training again so it will be quiet around here. The bib has been tracking these people since sept.

They did ditch my sim card but unfortunately they used it & made it to easy to connect the dots!

This event feels like I just lived a mini novel. I am going to rework my security & not get so wrapped up in video games.

Had I been just online I would have seen the perpetrators instead of killing the evil monsters!

We look for a very undernourished Rotwieler hungry for flesh this week. Usually great defense dogs & quite friendly with people as long as they don't decide to mosey round the grounds uninvited.

Can't wait to see if I am in the news tonite drawing down with the roundhouse sweep intended to snap <deleted> knee.

I still do not believe having worked in security privately in Palm springs & San Diego cal. that any form of system will keep the buggers out if they do not care if the siren goes off & your sitting at home & they are willing to take a chance anyway.

short of one of those archaic M-70 flamethrowers used by the military many years back. I did however feel like a hometown hero with all the support & applause I received from the 20 neighbors that came over.

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Be interesting to see what sort of time they get. I'm part of the hang em high crowd....so i hope they hang these grubs up by their <deleted>!

Bet they steer clear of beardog next time :o . Amazing how quickly the "Do bad, get bad" thing can bite!

Reminds me of a mate who went into the watering hole to take a leak. As he was urinating he noticed a moth hovering close to the bottom of the p#ss trough, so he took aim & worked the poor old thing over...gave it a real good hosing. Anyway quite proud of his work, he stood by tall and strong as he did up his fly at which time the moth took flight from the bottom of the p#ss trough and landed right on his forehead, flapping around as it did so. TRUE STORY! :D

You see, you do bad, you get bad! :D:D:D

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Sorry bout the long post!

there's nothing to be sorry about Beardog and i am glad to hear you and Alisa are okay!

Thank you very much we are fine. pruned down all trees that were obstructing the view after the monkeys showed the points of entry. looks like the electric fence got a little too hot & melted the plastic on the knife switch- probably when the diesel backup went on- didn't even know we had a fire till today.

The later robbery was a stolen bike 1/2 way between Bang Sare & Ban ampur no gun the thieves got away.

Glad to hear you. I hope your feeling better! by the way I located through a friend of Alisa the bamboo you were looking for. 10 kilo's from the Cambodian border. Chantabury. She will deliver for you & I think she will be very reasonable. She has been helping us put our white ginger honeysuckles & other good plants.

Take care talk to you soon!

Barry

Edit : & her lemons are delicious & the size of grapefruits Each 1 made 1.25 liters of lemonade. AAAAAroy! :o

Edited by Beardog
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Got robbed in our house last night . The thieves made it through jumping over an electricified chain link fence via using a rubber mat thrown over it. They just climbed over the fence after cutting the power . The secondary power came on the alarms went off & the flashing strobes installed via infrared sensors. No one came to investigate. The 3 cameras were stolen along with the unit recording it. The only failsafe I neglected was the silent part of the alarm. We pay the local police to watch the place as well.

When i was back in Australia we had camera systems that would send the frame before movement detected, frame where it detected movement and a few frames after to your mobile phone, we also used offisite recording for the cameras so the box didnt get stolen or affected by power cut.

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Our dog was sleeping in the front of the house & they breeched the rear (which stupid me) left open so all they had to do was slit the screen & open the sliding bolt.

So am I understanding you correctly...you are posting this long report about your house being robbed when you admit you basically left the back door of your house unlocked? :o That sounds to me like a pretty good recipe for getting robbed.

You describe all this high-tech security you have invested in at your home, including a fierce guard dog who sleeps through the whole episode, all of which did nothing to secure your residence, and now you think the answer is even more stuff. I think not...maybe you need to re-think your approach. I think the more you fortify a house, the more attractive it is to brrglers as the assume you must have allot to protect. Dogs, electrified fences and trip-wires, motion/heat detectors...allot of good any of that did you.

The best defense against house burglaries, anywhere in the world, is good quality windows/doors with proper locks and then securing these entrances when one leaves or goes to sleep. Also, living in a moobaan and getting to know you neighbors is important too. That's really all that is necessary...anything else is overkill.

Edited by MeetJohnDoe
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