Bma Boost Security Measures In Buildings After Night Club Fire

[monkfish]

Sure Thailand is a developing country!

But it is also a popular tourist destination and allowed to advertise without restriction on many western TV stations as "Amazing Thailand"

If they wants to keep this privilege, Hotels and Venues such as Night Clubs will be expected to meet the minimum fire safety requirements

The minimum safety requirements I can imagine involve not locking FIRE EXITS.

[carbine1125]

i wonder why all you " farang" living here in this "dangerous" country don't stop bitching and accept that yeah maybe it is a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has gone but maybe instead think, ok well maybe some good will come out of the tragedy and stop this happening again! maybe you should go back to your safe expensive big brother controlled countries and live happely ever after. give the Thais a break. if it was not so of the cuff in Thailand you would not be living here in the first place......

"stable door", "horse" and "bolted" all spring to mind

[anon467367354]

I too think nothing is really going to come of this. It seems that when it comes to making money, anything is fair game. Whether it's driving through neighborhoods blasting a sales pitch at 125 decibels, or blocking a sidewalk with drying t-shirts, or a sidewalk restaurant, or a political sign, or the freaking guy on the train waking people up selling orange juice at 5:30 am. Making money takes precedence and probably always will. Sure you can put in the fire sprinklers and exits to regulation size, but if the exits are locked, it's the same as not having them, if not worse. Over crowding is an issue at these clubs, as well as non-fire-retardant materials that are cheap and easy to use. Most of the deaths at Santika were from breathing toxic fumes and carbon monoxide, not burns. Another note on Santika was that they didn't have any insurance, for they were planning on selling in about 3 moths time, keeniao maak maak. If taken the right way, this could be a welcomed job opportunity to improve the infrastructure, creating jobs and selling materials. But the real problem is, money. It's worshiped more than any other entity. I don't know if this is going to hurt the clubbing industry or not. I don't go to clubs, so I don't know other than what I hear, and because of what I hear is the reason I don't go. Announcing "crackdowns" does nothing more than advertise a problem, and the lack of action taken in light of these advertisements is laughable, or worthy of compassion in this case. We'll see, but I do think it is the citizens place to keep tabs on the government, otherwise, it's not for the people by the people, it's neither.

[mrtoad]

i wonder why all you " farang" living here in this "dangerous" country don't stop bitching and accept that yeah maybe it is a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has gone but maybe instead think, ok well maybe some good will come out of the tragedy and stop this happening again! maybe you should go back to your safe expensive big brother controlled countries and live happely ever after. give the Thais a break. if it was not so of the cuff in Thailand you would not be living here in the first place......

Are you Thai?

[sangfroid]

Frankly, it's better then doing nothing isnt it?

The consensus of opinion thus far seems to be that nothing will be done.

Well if the worst factory fire in history, ie; The Kader toy factory fire at Nakhon Pathom, followed a few years later by 90 people being incinerated in a hotel in Jomthien through sheer negligence, and several other instances, have resulted in bugger all being done, It's highly unlikely that the Santika debacle will have much effect. $$$$$ will rule as usual.

[Johpa]

This would mean the hundreds of small guesthouses on Khaosan and Samsen have to all shut down.

But assuming you then also close down the Pong, Nana Plaza, and Cowboy there will be no ex-pats remaining in the Capitol.

[mrtoad]

This would mean the hundreds of small guesthouses on Khaosan and Samsen have to all shut down.

But assuming you then also close down the Pong, Nana Plaza, and Cowboy there will be no ex-pats remaining in the Capitol.

That's a pretty sweeping generalisation.

[simonseze34]

That is just Soooooo....... "Thai" ....Too Thai in fact .....! They must always WAIT ...for something or anything serious to happend before they "Government and the Thai PEOPLE" would start doing something about it !! .... The so called..."LAW" would then be reinforced for ...hummmm ...say...about 3 months ...then .....back to being "THAI" again !!!! Goshhhhh .....how can you not love being in THAILAND.......I can go on and on and on ......but I won't ....it hurts for being half THAI sometimes.....!!!

[kevinc]

I still dont know what happened to Route 999 owners in Pattaya?? hxxp://stockauditor.co.uk/tuk/0605/999.jpg or

hxxp://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Massive-Fire-Route-999-Pattaya-t68456.html

...It was very very similar, 'no license' and as far as i remember it was supposed to be a restaurant 'Only' but was 'full-on' nite-club. Not just Bangkok but as many of you know if your in Pattaya then Lucifers or Marine in Walking street check most of the fire exits (what there is) are reportedly 'pad-locked'. It would be very very difficult to get fire engines through there at any time of day or night.

[AnthonyR1]

That is just Soooooo....... "Thai" ....Too Thai in fact .....! They must always WAIT ...for something or anything serious to happend before they "Government and the Thai PEOPLE" would start doing something about it !! .... The so called..."LAW" would then be reinforced for ...hummmm ...say...about 3 months ...then .....back to being "THAI" again !!!! Goshhhhh .....how can you not love being in THAILAND.......I can go on and on and on ......but I won't ....it hurts for being half THAI sometimes.....!!!

...and it will happen again. and we'll all be dumbfounded by it....and then it will happen again....and so on....and so on.....

[Old Man River]

I think it is to early to be judgemental. Yes, we all know that this tragedy could have been avoided if there was proper enforcement of laws, but at least they are trying to look at doing somethihng. It appears to many, that they are dammed if they do, and dammed if they dont.

If the tea money element for officials can b e clamped down on, then there might be some development.

You are right. Some times, maybe not often, changes do occur after a tragedy. You may remember that awful rush hour fuel truck explosion on Petchburi Rd. in 1990. After that laws were changed re-routing fuel trucks.

[Old Man River]

I'd like to report the Nasa Vegas hotel in Klong Tan. Seriously, I had a row with them a while ago over the emergency exit issue. How to report? I mean...with the desired effect?

From the opening article in this thread, it sounds like the right place to complain right now is the BMA's Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Department. Six months from now they may not want to listen, but right now they should be all ears.

[baht&sold]

Thankfully, at least my Bkk condo building is up to standard, exits clear and clearly marked plus auxillary lighting and drills.

Last fire drill was just last month. However, a couple fellow expats complained all the way downstairs and continued to complain outside (drill was well publicised in advance in lifts and in mailboxes). The Thai staff went to lengths, even knocking on doors and instructing reluctant people to evacuate NOW. The grumpy expats appeared hung-over and at least one is commonly known to bash all things Thai, usually starting with 'Well, back home we'd never do like the these people do" etc, etc, ad nauseam (although he chooses to live here - with ever changing tilacs du jour)

Despite whatever the BMA may hopefully do, or not, those venturing out to clubs, malls (and even within your own condo building) maybe best to make yourself aware of exits and surroundings. For those in Condos, if the exits aren't clear or clearly marked or are locked, bring it up to management or owners or on co-Owner’s committee. If this does nothing, slip a note under every door and get all your neighbors involved (and hopefully your neighbors are less apathetic)

Sincerest condolences to all those whom lost a friend or loved one in this and other entirely preventable travesties, may something possibly good finally come from your tragic and needless loss.

[monkfish]

Good advise!

This doesn't only effect Thais but also us foreigners.

One very good thing I have seen in Thailand, which I have never seen in the UK or Europe are the emergency lights.

What do worry me though are the 100m long corridor's without any breaks or fire doors and no exterior fire exits.

[Miserere]

You wan buy fire extinguisher?

Nice colour red like real one.

I get cheap from China.

Good deal for you Somchai, but one Happy Extinguisher get one Happy free!

[Johnny Tahoe]

You guys are a cynical lot. You think the owner of Santika walks down his street with his head held high today? Especially considering how much cash these clubs rake in, I think you will see many of them spend a million baht (a night's profit?) and knock a back wall out for a door. Maybe the police will split the costs with them. Even the Chinese, now the most cutthroat capitalists on the planet, are prosecuting the melamine/milk criminals.

[AnthonyR1]

^^ inappropriate and not funny at all.

Edited January 6, 2009 by AnthonyR1

[ekkamai]

Try living with the authorities in (certain parts of ?) France. They are paranoid. Lately we were told not to have any paper in the office unless kept in a fireproof cabinet. We are talking about a small hotel. 18 rooms.

I hope Thailand will not take things that far, but serious shaping up safety standards is really required. let's hope we are on the right track, and let's be positive about it.

Tour operators should check before they book eg. hotels and take their business elsewhere if necessary. That kind of pressure would work particularly in these days where business is slow in the tourism secto

[AnthonyR1]

You guys are a cynical lot. You think the owner of Santika walks down his street with his head held high today? Especially considering how much cash these clubs rake in, I think you will see many of them spend a million baht (a night's profit?) and knock a back wall out for a door. Maybe the police will split the costs with them. Even the Chinese, now the most cutthroat capitalists on the planet, are prosecuting the melamine/milk criminals.

how many club shareholders have you dealt with locally? how many clubs have you watched cut corners? how many BMA inspections have you been involved in? i can guess how many!

[skooldaze]

Guys - dont be too hard on Thailand.

Shutting the door after the horse has bolted? Ok, yep, sure. But to be honest, most of OUR western health and safety rules are in place under precisely those circumstances.

It unfortunately takes a terrible tragedy for people to learn from their mistakes, identify the problems and try to do something about it.

On the face of it, Thailand is doing something. Yeah, it may be too little too late, but at least it appears to be a step in the right direction.

Frankly, it's better then doing nothing isnt it?

NO it's not. The Thais never learn when a tragedy happens and they don't implement better safety regulations. Time and again this has proven to be the case. The most outrageous instance was a fire at a toy factory in BKK in the 1990s that left 200 workers dead thanks to all exits being locked except one. Did this spark any sea change ion workplace safety laws in Thailand? NONE whatsoever and the victims that were maimed for life are still seeking adequate compensation. The owners got away with a slap on the wrist.

Contrast that with the 1913 fire at the Triangle Shirtwaist Company in New York, which ended in the deaths of about 125 women workers there. The tragedy spawned the first workplace safety laws and the creation of the occupational safety and health administration in the US to monitor worker safety.

What happened after the toy factory fire in Thailand more than 15 years ago? NOTHING. What's been done in the ensuing 15 years to improve workplace safety in Thailand? NOTHING.

What will be done in the wake of the Santika fire? NOTHING.

In SIAM LIFE IS CHEAP. Remember that always when you live here and cross the street. or when you choke on that chicken bone splinter left in your tom kha gai.

Edited January 6, 2009 by skooldaze

[kano85]

they better take on the CORRUPTPOLICE for closing their eyes . as long the money is coming in !!!!!!!!!!!!

[jsdwd]

The benchmark incident for nightclub fires was the Cocoanut Grove fire in 1942, in Boston, Mass. USA when nearly 500 people were killed. Flammable decorations, inadequate warning system and exit doors that opened inward were the proximate causes of all those deaths.

Surely this incident is known to fire departments throughout the world and my guess (I have no first hand knowledge) is that Thailand has laws on the books requiring safe operating rules. But these were subverted. But this is in no way unique to Thailand. Even in the U. S. where the tragedy occurred and the laws are on the books, it has happened over and over. There was the Beverly Hills Nightclub Fire in Kentucky in which 165 persons were killed. The law required a sprinkler system and fire alarms, but neither was present.

IN 2003 in the U. S. in Rhode Island an illegal pyrotechnic display caused a fire in which 100 people died. Trampling at the exits, flammable decorative material and lack of a legally required sprinkler system were the proximate causes of those deaths. This tragedy took place less than 100 miles from Boston, the scene of the aforementioned cocoanut grove fire.

Those skeptics who have written of laxity in Thai standards should do more than just demean Thai efforts at improvement. The problem of illegal and unsafe buildings is obviously not unique to Thailand, nor, as the above cases show, is there anything peculiarly Thai about subverting the safety regulations. Rather than use the tragedy as another opportunity to dump on the Thai government, why not do something useful?

When you see an unsafe condition, report it. If you are in a club or department store or any public place that has inadequate fire preparedness, make it your business to call it to the attention of the authorities and insist that they do their job and put it right. Don't stop complaining until the situation is remedied. Involve the media, involve local government officials and neighborhood groups. This tragedy could be the impetus of a major improvement in the public safety.

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

[skooldaze]

The benchmark incident for nightclub fires was the Cocoanut Grove fire in 1942, in Boston, Mass. USA when nearly 500 people were killed. Flammable decorations, inadequate warning system and exit doors that opened inward were the proximate causes of all those deaths.

Surely this incident is known to fire departments throughout the world and my guess (I have no first hand knowledge) is that Thailand has laws on the books requiring safe operating rules. But these were subverted. But this is in no way unique to Thailand. Even in the U. S. where the tragedy occurred and the laws are on the books, it has happened over and over. There was the Beverly Hills Nightclub Fire in Kentucky in which 165 persons were killed. The law required a sprinkler system and fire alarms, but neither was present.

IN 2003 in the U. S. in Rhode Island an illegal pyrotechnic display caused a fire in which 100 people died. Trampling at the exits, flammable decorative material and lack of a legally required sprinkler system were the proximate causes of those deaths. This tragedy took place less than 100 miles from Boston, the scene of the aforementioned cocoanut grove fire.

Those skeptics who have written of laxity in Thai standards should do more than just demean Thai efforts at improvement. The problem of illegal and unsafe buildings is obviously not unique to Thailand, nor, as the above cases show, is there anything peculiarly Thai about subverting the safety regulations. Rather than use the tragedy as another opportunity to dump on the Thai government, why not do something useful?

When you see an unsafe condition, report it. If you are in a club or department store or any public place that has inadequate fire preparedness, make it your business to call it to the attention of the authorities and insist that they do their job and put it right. Don't stop complaining until the situation is remedied. Involve the media, involve local government officials and neighborhood groups. This tragedy could be the impetus of a major improvement in the public safety.

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

well put

[piewarmer]

First of all: when the premise is of one of the "ruling" class, no police will ever dare too enter.

Second: the Thais have to know to what they have to look. Probably a farang has to instruct them for a couple of years, showing again and again and .. again.. and ... again.

Last: even when anything is found... handfull of THB and eyes are closed

There's a "Third:" to that too -- what about "outside BKK"...???

I was thinking the same thing, is the rest of Thailand not worth looking after?

The horse may have bolted, one horse that is,

Theres still a large stable of gee gee's to be cared for. Good luck with enforcing this.

[Jimjim]

so... this means they're going to close the entire city????

Not even PAD could do that!!!

In the real world... ya... right.... special committee...

They did it in Brazil after a worse club fire there. And that's not exactly the most organized country, although probably more so than Thailand.

[snuggzzz]

I know of quite a lot of this type of unexpected death in the UK; you can blame who you want, accidents happen, it is part of life, enjoy yours.....................

[infernalman7]

Don't fully trust me on this but at least it happened and the majority of the people really are concerned about it. Thais have never concerned about anything reported on the media more than today. People will surely be more aware of this, pub crawlers and owners alike. The main shareholder of the Santika though he is one of the "ruling class", he will have to pay the price. NGOs are advising the victims and their families their "suing options" and rights and this has never happened before. May be I am too optimistic on this.

Really, blaming it on every single Thai in the country for being too corrupted and careless is just not very clever.

After all these complaints and dissatisfaction about this place, why not go back to the developed West and live the safety life?

[markokang]

Mr. Pongsakti said if the committee finds any building to be substandard, it will be closed immediately and strong legal action will be taken against the operators or the owners even if they are influential persons.

Doesn't this just say it all about Thailand, the fact that they need to include this clause!

[jacknorman]

Mr. Pongsakti said if the committee finds any building to be substandard, it will be closed immediately and strong legal action will be taken against the operators or the owners even if they are influential persons.

I will believe that when i see it.

strong legal action will be taken against the operators or the owners even if they are influential persons ( I think they mean this time not always, and not if they are part of the government

[downunderontop]

Many countries have had similar disasters including australia. U just have to keep on top of it and regulate as best as possible.

training and education is the first step

BMA boost security measures in buildings after night club fire

Santika Club after the fire on January 1, 2009. Photo: MCOT

BANGKOK: -- Responding to the fire at the Santika Club which left 64 people dead on New Year's Day, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) has set up a committee to inspect and improve the safety of buildings in the Thai capital.

Permanent Secretary of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration Pongsakti Saemsan said after a meeting with BMA's senior officials that the special committee will inspect security measures of the buildings of cinemas, hotels, department stores, apartments, markets and other structures which can affect lives and property of the public.

The inspection criteria include installation of fire extinguishers, emergency alarms and fire exits.

Mr. Pongsakti said if the committee finds any building to be substandard, it will be closed immediately and strong legal action will be taken against the operators or the owners even if they are influential persons.

The BMA assigned the Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Department to convene a meeting with building owners next week to instruct them on building security measures.

BMA deputy permanent secretary Pongsakti will work with officials of the the capital's district offices to build understanding with the public and to distribute handbooks on safety measures in case of emergency.

-- TNA 2009-01-06