Farang Murdered In Chiang Mai

[ComicBum]

....be careful who you bring home.

rip, dude.

....same age as me.

........ Be Careful WHAT You Bring Home!

[ricbkk]

What a sad story. R.I.P. I am sure all your friends and family will remember you fondly.

[Shotime]

If the murdered had smashed a plate the police would probably have guests from a Greek wedding as top of their list of suspects.

LOL - that cracked me up.

If it had been a Thai women suspected as the killer, no doubt the media hounds would be writing this all over the press, Thai bar girls are bad, stupid farang man killed by evil bar girl etc...

So, to help the process......

Bloody evil thai bar boys.

All these boys are after is money.

Serves him right for getting involved with Thai men.

Why do these farang men think they can come to Thailand and get involved with these boys ?

And so on...........

Very levelheaded input. I used to know a guy called <deleted>.

[anon467367354]

so it doesn't sound like a pure-bred Thai, but one of those cross-bred impure Burmese/Thai. Is it possible that it was committed by a basic Thai person, and not some savage ritual drum-beating dance around the fire dirty filthy border people. It seems that everything to do with a border is less than up to standard to the Thai. Sawasdibpiimaijeen

[Svetlana]

I just don't understand what kind of gated community it is. There is a quardian, right? He was on duty and saw the poor man's car driven by a Thai boy plus another Thai inside. And what? He couldn't stop the car and ask why there were taking it and where the owner was? What is actually the guardian's responsibility? For what he is there, at the gate, - to watch and that's all? It seems nobody cares of anything in this country. All they want is just farangs' money. As one Thai man said to me:"Oooh, Thai people need money..." As if nobody else does, only them...

[damian5000]

it's just plain painful to read these detectives thoughts on cases like this... ritualistic killing and animal spirits because a light was broken...like a light isn't going to get broken in a life and death struggle. and the safe was dragged out and stolen, was the money to appease the spirits also? idiots.

[nikster]

Well i guess if you want to throw police off your trail in Chiang Mai smash a light and instantly they think its these tribes...

I don't like stereotyping but it seems the Thai police always know exactly what's going on. Ask them about any crime and they will have an answer ready - even if they just discovered the body.

[wrecker]

Well it worked out. The murderer is harder to catch. If the police sincerely thinks that smashing the light is a Shan thing than the Thai murderer can take his time to get away. Shan are not really animists anyhow if they ar animists the majority of the Thai are animists too, after all they they have all kinds of witch doctors (moh doo) who perform outrageous rites too. It looks a bit like the mas murderer that was creating havoc on the streets of bangkok, every time when a body was found in the trash the police said that it could not be a Thai as they would never do such a thing. Police incompetence in this country is appalling. By the way I smash my light now and than too but I am not a Shan, but I did take some piano lessons. It could also have been a muslim murder, they use to slash throats quite often. I would love to know how many innocent people there are in Thai jails because of the presumptuous way the police and courts handle their cases.

[mallmagician]

I have been reading this thread, and feel sickened.

Does Thailand really have this sort of percentage of sick, inconsiderate, narrow minded, bigoted, childish Ex-Pat morons such as are posting on this thread?

So many inappropriate comments here. Too many to pick on any particular one. But I would state this:-

If you were sat in a bar discussing this horrific murder, and there were a number of people present who know the victim present, would you really say these things in their presence?

You can answer one of two ways I guess:-

(1) Yes you would - In which case I regard you with contempt, because you are a sad excuse for a human being, with no compassion.

or

(2) No you wouldn't - In which case I regard you as a gutless coward that hides behind the anonymity of the internet.

Please people. I used to really like Thai Visa, and I have had a lot of useful information from people who are on the whole (Or on the surface?), nice people. However, reading threads like this where everybody is throwing in their 2cents worth, with no foundation, basis, or thought for those that knew this guy, really makes me begin to dislike this forum.

I didn't know the guy, but I will offer what so many other of you should be doing, instead of your mindless drivel . A simple message, RIP.

Phil

[WaiWai]

Well said, mallmagician.

There are many questions. We have almost no idea of the facts, other than that someone from the foreign community has died under violent circumstances.

R.I.P., David.

[steffi]

You know you can always change the channel if you don't like what's on.

I have been reading this thread, and feel sickened.

Does Thailand really have this sort of percentage of sick, inconsiderate, narrow minded, bigoted, childish Ex-Pat morons such as are posting on this thread?

So many inappropriate comments here. Too many to pick on any particular one. But I would state this:-

If you were sat in a bar discussing this horrific murder, and there were a number of people present who know the victim present, would you really say these things in their presence?

You can answer one of two ways I guess:-

(1) Yes you would - In which case I regard you with contempt, because you are a sad excuse for a human being, with no compassion.

or

(2) No you wouldn't - In which case I regard you as a gutless coward that hides behind the anonymity of the internet.

Please people. I used to really like Thai Visa, and I have had a lot of useful information from people who are on the whole (Or on the surface?), nice people. However, reading threads like this where everybody is throwing in their 2cents worth, with no foundation, basis, or thought for those that knew this guy, really makes me begin to dislike this forum.

I didn't know the guy, but I will offer what so many other of you should be doing, instead of your mindless drivel . A simple message, RIP.

Phil

[anon467367354]

If you were sat in a bar discussing this horrific murder, and there were a number of people present who know the victim present, would you really say these things in their presence?

You can answer one of two ways I guess:-

(1) Yes you would - In which case I regard you with contempt, because you are a sad excuse for a human being, with no compassion.

or

(2) No you wouldn't - In which case I regard you as a gutless coward that hides behind the anonymity of the internet.

How many times did we have to see the young man get off his motorbike, shoot a security guard at point blank, then plug a slug into the head of his "girlfriend" execution style, as she pleaded for her life, ON THE TV!? Do you think family members and friends saw it too, over and over and over again? Thai TV. Maybe we should all go and lament the dead, and pray it doesn't happen again, for not dealing with the source is certainly the Thai way of doing things. The westerners like to deal with the inept and remedy the cause. Getting it out in the open is part of the process. Scientists do not discuss theory, they argue it. If you can't take the heat, don't, for arguing a case is not for everybody.

[Johpa]

I have been reading this thread, and feel sickened.

Does Thailand really have this sort of percentage of sick, inconsiderate, narrow minded, bigoted, childish Ex-Pat morons such as are posting on this thread?

Uh ,yes to answer your question.

And as one who has been married for over 20 years to what one of the above mentioned bigots has described as "some savage ritual drum-beating dance around the fire dirty filthy border people", although I daresay that would certainly add some spice to my otherwise rather ordinary life, that given the past 30 years that I have been hanging out off and on with these allegedly filthy people, including Shan, I can claim that the "tribal" aspect of the story is pure fantasy.

[StevieH]

I have been reading this thread, and feel sickened.

Does Thailand really have this sort of percentage of sick, inconsiderate, narrow minded, bigoted, childish Ex-Pat morons such as are posting on this thread?

So many inappropriate comments here. Too many to pick on any particular one. But I would state this:-

If you were sat in a bar discussing this horrific murder, and there were a number of people present who know the victim present, would you really say these things in their presence?

You can answer one of two ways I guess:-

(1) Yes you would - In which case I regard you with contempt, because you are a sad excuse for a human being, with no compassion.

or

(2) No you wouldn't - In which case I regard you as a gutless coward that hides behind the anonymity of the internet.

Please people. I used to really like Thai Visa, and I have had a lot of useful information from people who are on the whole (Or on the surface?), nice people. However, reading threads like this where everybody is throwing in their 2cents worth, with no foundation, basis, or thought for those that knew this guy, really makes me begin to dislike this forum.

I didn't know the guy, but I will offer what so many other of you should be doing, instead of your mindless drivel . A simple message, RIP.

Phil

well said. mindless, uninformed speculation and generalisations about people have no place in this thread. a little, well, actually a lot more respect wouldn't go amiss.

[mallmagician]

If you were sat in a bar discussing this horrific murder, and there were a number of people present who know the victim present, would you really say these things in their presence?

You can answer one of two ways I guess:-

(1) Yes you would - In which case I regard you with contempt, because you are a sad excuse for a human being, with no compassion.

or

(2) No you wouldn't - In which case I regard you as a gutless coward that hides behind the anonymity of the internet.

How many times did we have to see the young man get off his motorbike, shoot a security guard at point blank, then plug a slug into the head of his "girlfriend" execution style, as she pleaded for her life, ON THE TV!? Do you think family members and friends saw it too, over and over and over again? Thai TV. Maybe we should all go and lament the dead, and pray it doesn't happen again, for not dealing with the source is certainly the Thai way of doing things. The westerners like to deal with the inept and remedy the cause. Getting it out in the open is part of the process. Scientists do not discuss theory, they argue it. If you can't take the heat, don't, for arguing a case is not for everybody.

Yes, but if as you say "Westerners like to deal with the inept and remedy the cause", then surely (As any scientist would agree), you need to know what the cause is! The facts simply are not known by most. Conjecture by any party at this time is at least insensitive, at worst dam_n right slanderous!

Furthermore, I do not believe I referred to any specific posts. Indeed, generally discussing safety, and perhaps the comment about the security guard is fair game. I was thinking for about the comments indirectly calling this guy a child molester, the jokes about Greek Weddings, the people suggesting that just because he liked guys, means he was asking for trouble. Its just plain wrong.

To another poster a few comments above - Yes, I could change the channel, but I guess I just felt so shocked to actually say something this time. I am now only sticking around to see what wonderful justifications the poor-taste posters come up with!

[hansunger]

getting more dangerous in Asia. also here in the philippines, at least every week a foreigner get killed.

last monday, may best friend Bernd D. was brutaly murdered in angeles city in his house (multiple stab wounds, then his head smashed, dogs poisoned..)

http://www.journal.com.ph/index.php?issue=...8&aid=83366

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/pampanga/german-...d-his-residence

[anon467367354]

I have been reading this thread, and feel sickened.

Does Thailand really have this sort of percentage of sick, inconsiderate, narrow minded, bigoted, childish Ex-Pat morons such as are posting on this thread?

Uh ,yes to answer your question.

And as one who has been married for over 20 years to what one of the above mentioned bigots has described as "some savage ritual drum-beating dance around the fire dirty filthy border people", although I daresay that would certainly add some spice to my otherwise rather ordinary life, that given the past 30 years that I have been hanging out off and on with these allegedly filthy people, including Shan, I can claim that the "tribal" aspect of the story is pure fantasy.

the quote "some savage ritual drum-beating dance around the fire dirty filthy border people" was a reference to the Thai perspective of the poorer people. This is not the behavior of the rich, the dancing around fires or huddling around them to keep warm. The rich commit their crimes with more "tact" if that's even possible. They pay people to kill in the name of "law" or saving face. It was not a bigoted response coming from a bigot which I am certainly not. It was a observation of how the poorer people in this country are treated. Is their a icon for sarcasm? My eloquence isn't up to par for this group.

[Scott]

My deepest condolences to the friends and familiy of the victim.

I think it is important to make some attempt to preserve the honor of deceased people, since they cannot do it themselves. I think that the word 'boys' is generally used in Thailand to refer to young men. The leap to child-molester is most unwarranted. I believe that somewhere it was quoted that he met someone in a bar--therefore probably not really a boy.

He as brutally killed, and it doesn't sound like an easy killing, therefore probably not a boy. The perpetrator(s) drove off with his car, again something a boy probably couldn't do--at least without the ever so vigilant guard taken serious notice of this.

I never knew the man, but at least for now, let's let what honor and dignity he may have, stay with him.

[sbk]

Completely inappropriate posts have been deleted. Lets have some respect for the man's family and friends and refrain from pointless and defamatory speculation.

[peekint]

I have been reading this thread, and feel sickened.

Does Thailand really have this sort of percentage of sick, inconsiderate, narrow minded, bigoted, childish Ex-Pat morons such as are posting on this thread?

So many inappropriate comments here. Too many to pick on any particular one. But I would state this:-

If you were sat in a bar discussing this horrific murder, and there were a number of people present who know the victim present, would you really say these things in their presence?

You can answer one of two ways I guess:-

(1) Yes you would - In which case I regard you with contempt, because you are a sad excuse for a human being, with no compassion.

or

(2) No you wouldn't - In which case I regard you as a gutless coward that hides behind the anonymity of the internet.

Please people. I used to really like Thai Visa, and I have had a lot of useful information from people who are on the whole (Or on the surface?), nice people. However, reading threads like this where everybody is throwing in their 2cents worth, with no foundation, basis, or thought for those that knew this guy, really makes me begin to dislike this forum.

I didn't know the guy, but I will offer what so many other of you should be doing, instead of your mindless drivel . A simple message, RIP.

Phil

Well said, Phil. You've saved me a lot of writing because you expressed my thoughts so clearly.

All I would add is that I spent most of yesterday with the Police at David's house and can say that 90% of what I read in the press so far is pure fantasy.

I can't divulge details, but I can say the police have quite capably been able to discern motive, opportunity, means and identity. Some of the identity work they did was really quite astounding considering the time frame. My hats off to them. The hunt is on.

(As an example of the drivel in the articles, one mentions David was a restauranteur. Those of us who knew him would tell you that he's as likely a restauranteur as General Chavalit is a ski instructor.)

Since retiring to Chiang Mai, David was a tireless fundraiser and humanitarian, complementing his gift for music teaching, performance and composition. He used his choral group to regularly raise funds for a number of charities, including the Fund for Education of Rural Children which supports rural schools (yes, Tai Yai and Shan) near the Burmese border.

David will be sorely missed, both by those who knew him, and by those who didn't know him but who benefited from his generosity and hard work.

Goodbye, David. We loved you.

[yeeowww]

Well stated Mailmagician. 95% of the Caucasians that populate Thailand are half-wits. I've been living in Chiang Mai 3 years yet I do not associate with or have even 1 ex-pat friend... why would I come here to hang out with the morons I left the USA for? As far as I'm concerned, you imbeciles can all move to Pattaya and live in White Man Heaven together. Just keep the <deleted> away from me.

I have been reading this thread, and feel sickened.

Does Thailand really have this sort of percentage of sick, inconsiderate, narrow minded, bigoted, childish Ex-Pat morons such as are posting on this thread?

So many inappropriate comments here. Too many to pick on any particular one. But I would state this:-

If you were sat in a bar discussing this horrific murder, and there were a number of people present who know the victim present, would you really say these things in their presence?

You can answer one of two ways I guess:-

(1) Yes you would - In which case I regard you with contempt, because you are a sad excuse for a human being, with no compassion.

or

(2) No you wouldn't - In which case I regard you as a gutless coward that hides behind the anonymity of the internet.

Please people. I used to really like Thai Visa, and I have had a lot of useful information from people who are on the whole (Or on the surface?), nice people. However, reading threads like this where everybody is throwing in their 2cents worth, with no foundation, basis, or thought for those that knew this guy, really makes me begin to dislike this forum.

I didn't know the guy, but I will offer what so many other of you should be doing, instead of your mindless drivel . A simple message, RIP.

Phil

[Johpa]

Is their a icon for sarcasm? My eloquence isn't up to par for this group.

My apologies. Alas within the context of the wider thread it is not uncommon for sarcasm and irony to be missed. The medium does have its limitations.

[anon467367354]

"The facts simply are not known by most."

point being let's not jump to conclusions, just get everything we know on the table, and table everything we don't know and see what comes up. "What if" is part of the process. What if the case is solved this way? This could happen to any of us here, and it would be treated exactly the same way. It's just the way it is here, and that's why we live here, because it is what it is.

[ChiangMaiAjarn]

I knew David a little. He was a tatented musician and a very delightful human being. Doesn't matter how he died. He will be missed by his many friends!

[alex_4000]

you people are sick! shame on you

*gets up to change the channel*

R.I.P.

[Africanteacher]

Anyone know how dangerous a lady-boy could be?

I mean violently dangerous.

Just asking.

This is sad. Sorry man.

[Arkady]

"Pol-Lt Noisuwan said that officers had spoken to the security guard at the victim's gated community and the guard said that, two days ago, he saw two Thai men driving the victim's car, a Citroen, out through the gates and disappear."

Great service from the guards. Admittedly he might have been in the habit of lending his car to young men but it would have been nice, if the guards had challenged them and called the owner to check he had loaned his car and/or noted down the names of the men from their ID cards. I bet they would have done more if the owner was a big shot Thai. Often hear of robberies in moobaans that have guards, specially newer and smaller ones with low budgets for security. Mine are armed with .38s at night as they plod about on their bicycles and and I often wonder whether that makes me safer or at greater risk but so far so good.

I don't much care for the posts that imply the victim was probably a paedophile who got what was coming to him. There is no evidence of that and it is a horrible and tragic murder of some one I didn't know but who sounds like a decent human being and a talented musician. Gay men obviously run a big risk taking unknown Thai men home with them but that is no reason to character assassinate him after he has been murdered. Murders of farangs seem to bring these creepy trolls into TV with a vengeance like all the creeps who said that Canadian victim Carly Reisig was asking to be shot by a drunk policeman in Pai last year because of sluttish behaviour.

I agree that the ritualist murder label is gutter press sensationalism. The ritual element was only breaking the light which might have happened in the fight or been done to make it look like it was a hill tribesman.

[notime]

Anyone know how dangerous a lady-boy could be?

I mean violently dangerous.

Just asking.

This is sad. Sorry man.

Yes, they can be quite a DANGER. Especially that they often operate in groups and some of them are very big and quite strong. The crimes they do often go unreported for sake of rather obvious reasons. I once checked a lady-boys bag and discorever a torch and a swiss knife in it. They usually just steal but I've heard about bashings and killings as well.

My advise is that if you are to use "their services" do it in a hotel room and make sure your mobile phone, digi-cam and cash are still with you before they leave. NEVER bring them home or alow them to invite their friends to your place.

[john b good]

Very sad news indeed.

I do think however that folk need to be more aware of the consequences of their actions.

BB made reference (in another post) to something along the lines of situation awareness.

it may have been just a robbery -see police report.

anyway, not an appropriate post at this moment in time.

a tribute to david may have been more appropriate. he did a lot for chiangmai

I did acknowledge that it was "very sad news indeed"

I didn't know the man from a bar of soap so very difficult to offer a tribute would you not agree.

[john b good]

I just don't understand what kind of gated community it is. There is a quardian, right? He was on duty and saw the poor man's car driven by a Thai boy plus another Thai inside. And what? He couldn't stop the car and ask why there were taking it and where the owner was? What is actually the guardian's responsibility? For what he is there, at the gate, - to watch and that's all? It seems nobody cares of anything in this country. All they want is just farangs' money. As one Thai man said to me:"Oooh, Thai people need money..." As if nobody else does, only them...

Not a "guardian" but rather a security guard.

It's possible that the car had often (or on occasion) gone out with persons other than the owner driving it.

But you're pretty close to the mark when you state "it seems nobody cares of anything in this country"

Edited January 23, 2009 by john b good