Governor Petitioned To Ban The Second Chiang Mai Gay Pride Parade

[jupiterandromeda]

rather a couple of Gay people - one Thai and one German who complained.

a gay couple complained about it?

ooooh the bloody bigots!

Not a Thai couple.. well

One very well known Thai who pioneered gay rights in Thailand was involved. Who knows why and a gay couple, newly moved to CM, one thai and one German. God knows why. This event is as inclusive as it comes.

[jupiterandromeda]

Having a parade, you force your presence on people. How? Well, the shop owner that happens to be on the street that you choose has little option to get up and leave, as do those that get caught in traffic and have to wait to pass. Now, if you wanted to have a "gay meet" at some undisclosed location in the mountains, that I have no issues with. And I said I do not like it rammed in my face, like what a parade does. And why is it that when ever someone mentions an opinion that differs than that of the gay community, that they are accused of being insecure of their own sexuality?? This is a trend that I notice when ever I express my opinion about gays, they accuse me of being gay myself!

isn't it possible that a parade would bring in more people than ever and thereby actually increase the business of said shop owners?

Gay Prides around the world are known money makers. There;s a marked increase in gay tourism. Many companies now market to lgbt. London has started to market the gauy market to get them to come to London.

Wether sales would increase or not is not what is being debated.

so what was your point? that there shouldn't be a parade because you personally don't like having gayness 'rammed in your face'?

parades and festivals of all kinds bring more money into a local economy. i can't imagine too many shop owners having a problem with that.

[jupiterandromeda]

Nothing against gays, they make the same contributions to society as everyone else.

But why the need for a parade?

Most everyone knows their own sexuality - can't it just be left at that?

This is absolutely right. I was always under the impression that gay people want to be treated like everyone else. There has never been a heterosexual pride parade ever. No need for a gay pride parade, unless they want to be singled out and mocked.

You're missing the point. There is a need for a parade and much more if one single person be singled out and mocked. If that is your attitude, then that also is your answer why.

[jupiterandromeda]

All I ask is why do gays need a parade? I don't see parades for heterosexuals. Parades just plug up the traffic in already over crowded streets.

If you did have a parade for heterosexuals there would be an uproar in the gay community, you would all be labeled as homophobes, yet in reality straights should have the same right to celebrate being straight as gays.

I think the main issue with gays is they let their sexuality DEFINE them, IE, wanting to portray to the world that they are gay. Mind you, not all, but most do this. . I dont have a problem with someone that is gay, until they feel they need to announce the fact, and shove it in my face.....like the form of a parade. The same goes for some jock that defines himself as a die hard sports fan, no problem until they start getting rowdy.

But to me, its sad that someone would let something as simple as their sexuality define them, as for me, what sex I prefer is such a small portion of who I am as a person, that it would be such a waste if that was my main trait that I showed to the world. I pity most gays that are "gay and proud", so sad to have that as your major focus of their life. The gays that are gay and carry out life without the need to announce it, I admire.

What an excellent post... Wish I could have put my point so elloquently...

I agree, I wish I wouldn't have posted mine now that I read this.

If people want to have a parade what's it to you/. Dont look. Turn away. But if you have a problem accepting someone different maybe you should be looking at why you're not more tolerant. It takes a long time to grow a human. Dont give up on yourself just because you;ve come to something you dont like. This doesnt mean its bad. For you maybe but not for others. Maybe there's a little intollerance showing up?

[jupiterandromeda]

incidentally, those not happy with this do realise that 'gay pride' is just a name for a party nowadays yes? and that the origins of the name are in celebrating the fact that discrimination and prejudice had been overcome back in the 1960s? it's a celebration of diversity and society's ability to evolve into something that accepts people of all sorts and types as just that, people.

So if the discrimination and prejudice was overcome in the 60's why are people still banging on about it now! Why does anyone need to celebrate that they are gay?

Because obviously, from your post, the prejudice didn;t all go away. And why should'nt anyone celebrate their being. You should rather enjoy, encourage these differences. Let 10000 flowers bloom!!

[hagler]

All moaning about Gays is just a giant pain in the ass.

[malcy]

Hey lets have a straight pride march people can march down the street NOT wearing backless leather chaps , they could shave off their moustaches and untie their tee shirts from around their navel . Seriously why do gay people feel the need to parade their sexuality in such a way ? its almost as if they want to provoke a reaction be it positve or negative . Why not just get on and live your lives no one is that interested in you or what you do , isnt that what you keep saying you want ?

You guys and gals march every day. Look 13 of you got arrested in T for a sex party. That;s you. It;s time for the hetrosexual community to grow up. There are plenty of online sites of extremes for hetros. You just have to realise its time for you to change. Or be quiet, swallow your great opinion of yourself and show some humily, some respect for difference.

If gays were black we;d call your views Racist. Is there any difference between the racist against blacks and the racism shows against gays. NO. And who is doing it? Always the straight white males who thing the world belongs to them.

This world belongs to all the people living on it. So swallow your boasting ego. And learn humility and kindness. Pity the women and childrennaround you.

they got arrested for having group sex in a hotel hardly the same as a group mincing themselves into a frenzy in front of small chidren. there are also plenty of online sites for extreme homos.you are the only ones with a great opinion of yourselves hence the need for you to keep having these parades so you can make a spectacle of your selves. boasting ego ? re gay parade . dont talk about children they are something you will never have if you are truly gay and not just indulging your own selfish perversions .

[jupiterandromeda]

Oh please surely in the 21st century people can't take offence at a gay pride event?

It is a party, a celebration of life, tolerance and community. If more people celebrated these values more regularly then perhaps there would be a lot less strife and misery in the world.

Live and let live and the world might become a better place.

if its truly a celebration of community then why this overpowering need to advertise your differences to those of other sexual persuasions.

just get on and enjoy your lives as part of the community as everybody else does and less have lets of this setting yourselves apart as some persecuted minority.

nobody is really interested in your sexual preferences or anybody elses for that matter.

What makes you think that other groups are not included. Gay expats will join. The Burmese expats. the Lesbian, and gays from Phuket, Bangkok and pataya. If we can we will have many visitors from all over the world

Come on guys. This is a party. Gays know how to celebrate. Live a little. Maybe it;s just that you dont know about the opression and shame most LGBT have to live through before they find the persoal power to come out to themselves and othersl

Gay Pride parades happen precisely because there is this deaddening lack of understanding and lack of acceptance. If you accept, then you have to let gay people show themselves as they are. Maybe you'll learn to be more happy about who you are. This absolute control of gender identity between only male and only female is illusory and binds everyone into the roles they;re born with.

thais generally accept gays , transvestites , transgenders and those of all other sexual preferences , as part of societies , communities and workplaces and have done for a long time without the need or desire to have western style gay pride parades.

perhaps gays should be tolerant of the views of a lot of thais when it comes to sexuality , and that is to live and let live but keep it low key.

I agree with this, I don't see the need for a celebration to accentuate differences. I'm not gay but know many people who are and both Thai and foreigners seem to be very well accepted into the community. To hold an event which merely serves to exaggerate the differences would I think have an adverse affect on the local community. It would grate on their tolerance and would highlight divisions. If you want to live successfully in a local community the best way is to integrate and it's a little difficult to do when you keep pointing out that you are different.

However if the gay community wanted to organise something that the whole community could take part in, then it would be received rather differently.

It's a little bit as if I wanted to organise a parade for foreigners only, the local community immediately would be excluded.

[Jingthing]

However if the gay community wanted to organise something that the whole community could take part in, then it would be received rather differently.

I never heard of a gay pride parade where everyone wasn't welcome. Do you even know what you are talking about? A parade is a public event, anyone can attend.

For example, the Songkran parade involves many Buddha alters. Yet everyone is welcome to watch the parade, Buddhists and anyone interested in attending. No difference. If you want to attend, you attend, if you don't, stay home.

As far as gays being different, yes there are differences, what is wrong with differences?

Edited February 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[jupiterandromeda]

Hey lets have a straight pride march people can march down the street NOT wearing backless leather chaps , they could shave off their moustaches and untie their tee shirts from around their navel . Seriously why do gay people feel the need to parade their sexuality in such a way ? its almost as if they want to provoke a reaction be it positve or negative . Why not just get on and live your lives no one is that interested in you or what you do , isnt that what you keep saying you want ?

You guys and gals march every day. Look 13 of you got arrested in T for a sex party. That;s you. It;s time for the hetrosexual community to grow up. There are plenty of online sites of extremes for hetros. You just have to realise its time for you to change. Or be quiet, swallow your great opinion of yourself and show some humily, some respect for difference.

If gays were black we;d call your views Racist. Is there any difference between the racist against blacks and the racism shows against gays. NO. And who is doing it? Always the straight white males who thing the world belongs to them.

This world belongs to all the people living on it. So swallow your boasting ego. And learn humility and kindness. Pity the women and childrennaround you.

they got arrested for having group sex in a hotel hardly the same as a group mincing themselves into a frenzy in front of small chidren. there are also plenty of online sites for extreme homos.you are the only ones with a great opinion of yourselves hence the need for you to keep having these parades so you can make a spectacle of your selves. boasting ego ? re gay parade . dont talk about children they are something you will never have if you are truly gay and not just indulging your own selfish perversions .

You'r missing the point. This hate of difference is the real killer of the human spirit.

That;s all that;s being said. Dont blow it up into some homophobic crisis. Its just a parade. This is Thailand and Chiang Mai. Where do you poeple live? Have you no idea of the culture that surrounds you. These are Chiang Mai people wanting to express themselves, with their friends. Please keep your hate for those you love.

[Gravelrash]

My complaint about gay pride parades is basically two-fold. First, these parades are sometimes in large part grossly self-indulgent. Pretty childish, really. Second, it is true that Thai culture is in some respects very tolerant of sexual diversity, but the vulgar displays one often sees in such parades is really not consistent with Thai traditions of modest behavior in public.

I would agree with the above, the situation in Thailand is very different to how the west used to be. I would even suspect it may not be a good idea to ram one on these parades down the Thais throat.

Aside from that I'll be steering clear of any place that has you lot gyrating in g-strings on the back of a float. My kids know my brother is gay and it is irrelevant, however the sight of a gay pride march might well change that to thinking he is some kind of weirdo.

[jupiterandromeda]

Sounds like Mplus is angling for funding. Why can't these NGOs stop trying to fix things that aren't broken?

Not at all. there are some 'other gay groups' and gay people who have got upset because they were not invited. They have forgotten why we hold Gay Prides (united we stand), they - the people trying to stop it - are all about their own self publicity - a thai man and a german - they should be ostracized by the whole gay community. MPlus held the first gay pride last year, they need help - not hinderance. Going to the authorities was WRONG

So if I understand this correctly, it is some gay groups for the parade and others against. In other words there are factions within the gay community. This is rather different than ordinary people taking a stand against it. Isn't this more of a situation where within one group, one section feels it is being misrepresented by another??

Yes there are factions within the gay community, same as all communities. But this should never have been brought to the authorities - but sorted out within the gay community. Hopefully the Gay Pride will be a success. anyone knows dates, times places?

This division among the ranks is an interesting wrinkle in gay life in CM. It;s being analysed and dealt with. But the why of the opposition is a much more interesting question;

[jupiterandromeda]

My complaint about gay pride parades is basically two-fold. First, these parades are sometimes in large part grossly self-indulgent. Pretty childish, really. Second, it is true that Thai culture is in some respects very tolerant of sexual diversity, but the vulgar displays one often sees in such parades is really not consistent with Thai traditions of modest behavior in public.

I would agree with the above, the situation in Thailand is very different to how the west used to be. I would even suspect it may not be a good idea to ram one on these parades down the Thais throat.

Aside from that I'll be steering clear of any place that has you lot gyrating in g-strings on the back of a float. My kids know my brother is gay and it is irrelevant, however the sight of a gay pride march might well change that to thinking he is some kind of weirdo.

Again this is Chiang Mai. Not LA. Would uyou get over your unnecessary fear please?

[Tyke]

All I ask is why do gays need a parade? I don't see parades for heterosexuals. Parades just plug up the traffic in already over crowded streets.

I am gay and agree - I have always been completely bored with, and never seen the point of, all that show, fake jolity and blokes dressed up as girlies on the backs of trucks. It just seems an excuse for the trannies to put on their skirts and blouses. I often wonder if it is counterproductive with the public - it certainly doesn't tell them anything about me and most gays I know (actually all gays I know). Can't we have something different and maybe more cultural and a bit more serious or down to earth - or aren't we gays capable of doing anything in public except putting on the pink or back-stabbing people who don't smile through it all?

[malcy]

it always amazes me when people use the homophobia thing , a phobia is an irational fear of something , i dont fear homosexuals i just dislike their sexual practises, do what you want behind closed doors like most heteros.

[malcy]

All I ask is why do gays need a parade? I don't see parades for heterosexuals. Parades just plug up the traffic in already over crowded streets.

I am gay and agree - I have always been completely bored with, and never seen the point of, all that show, fake jolity and blokes dressed up as girlies on the backs of trucks. It just seems an excuse for the trannies to put on their skirts and blouses. I often wonder if it is counterproductive with the public - it certainly doesn't tell them anything about me and most gays I know (actually all gays I know). Can't we have something different and maybe more cultural and a bit more serious or down to earth - or aren't we gays capable of doing anything in public except putting on the pink or back-stabbing people who don't smile through it all?

best post so far imo

[Jingthing]

it always amazes me when people use the homophobia thing , a phobia is an irational fear of something , i dont fear homosexuals i just dislike their sexual practises, do what you want behind closed doors like most heteros.

Would it kill you to look in a DICTIONARY before you write posts based on ignorance? You got the DEFINITION wrong. Yes, fear is one part of the definition, but it also means AVERSION towards and discrimination towards homosexuals. Fear, aversion, and discrimination are all different things, and are all included under the definition of homophobia. You did voice a very common misunderstanding of the word.

homophobia

ho·mo·pho·bia

Pronunciation:

\ˌhō-mə-ˈfō-bē-ə\

Function:

noun

Date:

1969

: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

Edited February 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[malcy]

ooops homophobia is not even in my 1978 edition of the oxford english dictionary

[jupiterandromeda]

ooops homophobia is not even in my 1978 edition of the oxford english dictionary

Well there you are: Out of date. What a surprise?

[malcy]

ooops homophobia is not even in my 1978 edition of the oxford english dictionary

Well there you are: Out of date. What a surprise?

yeah give it a few years and i may take up buggery and become more up to date.

[SomchaiCNX]

Flower parade (next weekend)

Songkran

Loi Krathong

Any processions up to Doi Suthep and around the city to a temple or a church

Chiang Mai bike week

Chiang Mai food festival

Chiang Mai winter fare

Miss garlic

Miss somtam

Miss lamyai

Etc Etc

Just ban them all.

They all appear to be 'family' type events aimed at many people... Suitble for kids and not promoting a deviant sexual lifestyle.... You try explaining to a 5 year old why two men are holding hands or kissing each other...

Despite all the propganda and 'parades' homosexuality isn't widely excepted in the World and is still a punishable offence in many countries or seen as abhorant by the majority... If gays want to be acccepted they would be better mixing with others rather than organising events purely for their own glorification...

But they all create traffic problems and pollution isn't?

And those with religion involved can create irreversible damage to the mind for live.

Does a 5-year old ask you that kind of questions?

I would say, they express their love for each other just like your mother and father.

So, please don't use a 5-year old to reflect your own ideas.

I think most 5- year olds would love the muxic and the colors.

What are you going to say when one day, your 16-year old tells you that he or she is gay?

If one of my sons is gay I hope he will tell me asap and that he does not have to live in fear to lose the love of those he loves just because he's gay.

[Jingthing]

ooops homophobia is not even in my 1978 edition of the oxford english dictionary

Well there you are: Out of date. What a surprise?

yeah give it a few years and i may take up buggery and become more up to date.

Don't wait too long. You aren't getting any younger.

[SomchaiCNX]

acceptance and tolerance of gays is improving slowly and steadily, actually Thailand has one of the highest levels of acceptance in the world.

problem is these gay pride marches are not Thai style. Thais don't like things forced on them , passerbys are thinking , ok thats great , but so what . stop blocking the road for gods sake . so basically the marchers end up shooting themselves in the foot.

change is slow but its happening quick enough , no need to disrupt the equilibrium

You mean like with KFC, Burgerking, Pizzahut, Starbucks, etc etc etc?

[malcy]

lol jingthing

[endure]

Also, Gay culture in Thailand, as seen by Thai people (not the western view of it), is very different from that seen and accepted in the west. Take for example the number of ladyboys here and events like lady boy shows and contests which are popular even in small farming communities. The culture here is just not the same. For example, should ladyboys have been banned from the Loy Kratong festival parades for the same reasons?

But 'Gay Pride' parades aren't part of Thai culture - they're a western import.

Agreed, but in this case the western import has been taken over by Thais. And the gay community should be rightly sceptical, think of BKK pride........ on second thoughts lets not go there

There was a Dec 1 event fundraiser at Chedi Hotel. Being LGBT does not mean AIDS, let me remind you. Let me further inform you that there are 2 Gay Prides this month in Australia as well as Major one in Rio. Japan is next month. So you all see, this is not going to go away. Deal with it!

Any thai gay event in Thailand would inevitably have loads of guys dressing up as women, even in the provinces where there are no Farangs, and this would be one of the more fun aspects of a Thai Gay pride parade. On the other hand, some of the more blatant displays of flesh which come from western influences are not at all appropriate in public in Thailand.

This thread kinda demonstrates the big concerns about this type of event some in the gay community have - it actually shows gay people are not at all integrated into mainstream society and gives the bigots an opportunity to bash us. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing and am only supporting it because of the HIV angle, which is important.

Had Mplus organised an HIV awareness parade on 1 December (World AIDs day) it may have been a better tactic and wouldn't have drawn the attention and venom that this "Gay Pride" event clearly is.

Gay Pride is not a western import. It is the free expression of a minority being expressed all over the world. Branded Gay Pride gives dignity back to those who feel margianized. And judging from this thread, they have reason to feel less than welcome on planet earth.

Gay Pride parades are a western invention to partly celebrate the fact that homosexuality is no longer illegal in those countries where they're held. Homosexuality has never been illegal in Thailand.

[charlenejaidee]

Sounds like all to do over nothing, Gays are here to stay, they are your friend, cousins, sons, daughter, aunts brothers, plus they are a very vital party of what makes this city go round. So my advise to Mr Governor and Company CHILL OUT you will live longer and happier.

Big Snake - guess you did not read the previous messages. it is not the Governor and Company trying to stop it - rather a couple of Gay people - one Thai and one German who complained. If they had not complained it would never have gone to the Governor.

Maybe someone, possibly the Nation-- hasn't quite got the full story--- were there not several other gay groups who were not included in MPlus's plan, who did not quite agree with the concept as it was presented-- with a men -only spa of a less than sparkling reputation involved? And also a suggestion of underage sex in certain establishments? Plus a 'condom competition' in a public place??

And... several Thai persons who are not the governor, but are in exalted positions within theier community, who considered it was not well thought out and should be redone after a pause with all the gay organisations in agreement and involved?

There are two sides to every story...but it's much easier, on a forum, to just grab on to the bit that appeals or appals, and tear it apart with your teeth than to do some research and apply some objectivity.

Lots of not very pleasant posts, I see ---where are the mods when they are needed?

charlenejaidee

[Pdaz]

have to say that i find it quite scary that there are still people who think that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, like being a punk or a teddy boy. read some books, guys.

It is a lifestyle choice.. You didn't choose to be 'gay' but you can choose your lifestyle.. You can get on with your life, study, get a career find a soul mate and live happily ever after with hardly anybody showing any negative interest in your life..

OR

You can dye your hair pink, wear outrageous coustumes, camp it up and talk with a pronounced list.. Wave your limp wrist around and do your best to walk like a Marilyn Monroe caricature in high heels..shouting 'what a gay day'...

This is the difference.. The first guy blends in and mixes with society... The second flaunts his sexuality and does his best to alienate himself.. while complaining that nobody accepts him..

If you are gay no problem.. do you job, enjoy your life.... Just don't tell me about it... and I won't bore you with my sexual pecadilos...

[malcy]

Excellent post

[PeaceBlondie]

Repeating, this is a Thai thing, a Chiang Mai event, and they did it last year. I have never been to a gay pride parade, and may never get around to it. Homophobia is a word less than 40 years old, which has always meant both fear and dislike of gay activities and people. Homosexual is only 150 years old. Most of us prefer to say gay.

[endure]

Sounds like all to do over nothing, Gays are here to stay, they are your friend, cousins, sons, daughter, aunts brothers, plus they are a very vital party of what makes this city go round. So my advise to Mr Governor and Company CHILL OUT you will live longer and happier.

Big Snake - guess you did not read the previous messages. it is not the Governor and Company trying to stop it - rather a couple of Gay people - one Thai and one German who complained. If they had not complained it would never have gone to the Governor.

Maybe someone, possibly the Nation-- hasn't quite got the full story--- were there not several other gay groups who were not included in MPlus's plan, who did not quite agree with the concept as it was presented-- with a men -only spa of a less than sparkling reputation involved? And also a suggestion of underage sex in certain establishments? Plus a 'condom competition' in a public place??

And... several Thai persons who are not the governor, but are in exalted positions within theier community, who considered it was not well thought out and should be redone after a pause with all the gay organisations in agreement and involved?

There are two sides to every story...but it's much easier, on a forum, to just grab on to the bit that appeals or appals, and tear it apart with your teeth than to do some research and apply some objectivity.

Lots of not very pleasant posts, I see ---where are the mods when they are needed?

charlenejaidee

The mods are sitting here looking on amazed at the posters who joined yesterday but who seem to know the place inside out.