Governor Petitioned To Ban The Second Chiang Mai Gay Pride Parade

[sassienie]

Nothing against gays, they make the same contributions to society as everyone else.

But why the need for a parade?

Most everyone knows their own sexuality - can't it just be left at that?

Agreed.

Homo sexuals, as they were called in my younger days (correct term) can do their own thing, but why make a song and dance out of it?

Edited February 5, 2009 by sassienie

[Jingthing]

Being gay is about a lot more than sex acts, which of course take up a tiny percentage of the lives of even sex addicts. I am slightly amazed at the number of ignorant and homophobic posters. It is disappointing.

[endure]

Being gay is about a lot more than sex acts, which of course take up a tiny percentage of the lives of even sex addicts. I am slightly amazed at the number of ignorant and homophobic posters. It is disappointing.

Give up, Jing. You're wasting your time.

[Jingthing]

Give up, Jing. You're wasting your time.

I agree. Oh well.

[endure]

Any more posts that imply that there is any similarity between homosexuality and either paedophilia or bestiality will earn their poster an immediate suspension.

[sassienie]

The sad facts are that there has always been and forever will, be prejudices against minority groups.

This includes people of certain religions, races, political persuasions and sexual deviations.

It’s human nature and we are all suspicious and sometimes a little afraid of people that appear different from what we consider is the norm.

Human ways of thinking have not changed much in these so called modern times.

It’s a fact of life that I cannot see changing, well, not in the lifetimes of us ThaiVisa members anyway.

[BlackArtemis]

Great idea if they can get a nice polite walk around the moat etc and promote the idea that just like heterosexuals gays too lead normal lives (jobs, relationships etc)

Horrible idea if it's just another time for all the ladyboys and other gays to over exaggerate where white shirts, no bras, cowboy hats and dance to really loud Loog Tung from the back of a pickup like it's sonkran.

No matter the race or creed there are those who will set bad examples and whether they are the majority or minority the whole will be remembered by their actions. I hope this is not the case

[Tyke]

have to say that i find it quite scary that there are still people who think that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, like being a punk or a teddy boy. read some books, guys.

It is a lifestyle choice.. You didn't choose to be 'gay' but you can choose your lifestyle.. You can get on with your life, study, get a career find a soul mate and live happily ever after with hardly anybody showing any negative interest in your life..

OR

You can dye your hair pink, wear outrageous coustumes, camp it up and talk with a pronounced list.. Wave your limp wrist around and do your best to walk like a Marilyn Monroe caricature in high heels..shouting 'what a gay day'...

This is the difference.. The first guy blends in and mixes with society... The second flaunts his sexuality and does his best to alienate himself.. while complaining that nobody accepts him..

If you are gay no problem.. do you job, enjoy your life.... Just don't tell me about it... and I won't bore you with my sexual pecadilos...

Actually, I am gay and not a bleeding heart, and have never been outrageously gay in any way - quite sober and mainly closeted, so i fit into the first category. This has never protected me from the bullies and hateful homophobes all my life. So this statement clearly shows complete ignorance of what many gays, especially closetted gays, have to go through, often on a daily basis. Trying to 'fit' in to a straight society does not, I repeat does not, necessarily in itself lead to a 'happy', integrated life-style. So please, don't try to give people like me advice on how happiness can be achieved in my life style as you obviously haven't a clue. Stick to what you know.

[StevieH]

It is a lifestyle choice.. You didn't choose to be 'gay' but you can choose your lifestyle.. You can get on with your life, study, get a career find a soul mate and live happily ever after with hardly anybody showing any negative interest in your life..

OR

You can dye your hair pink, wear outrageous coustumes, camp it up and talk with a pronounced list.. Wave your limp wrist around and do your best to walk like a Marilyn Monroe caricature in high heels..shouting 'what a gay day'...

This is the difference.. The first guy blends in and mixes with society... The second flaunts his sexuality and does his best to alienate himself.. while complaining that nobody accepts him..

If you are gay no problem.. do you job, enjoy your life.... Just don't tell me about it... and I won't bore you with my sexual pecadilos...

so are you saying that you would prefer it if everyone looked, dressed and acted the same way? there was a name for that back in the 1940s you know.

[endure]

have to say that i find it quite scary that there are still people who think that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, like being a punk or a teddy boy. read some books, guys.

It is a lifestyle choice.. You didn't choose to be 'gay' but you can choose your lifestyle.. You can get on with your life, study, get a career find a soul mate and live happily ever after with hardly anybody showing any negative interest in your life..

OR

You can dye your hair pink, wear outrageous coustumes, camp it up and talk with a pronounced list..

Port or starboard?

[endure]

Great idea if they can get a nice polite walk around the moat etc and promote the idea that just like heterosexuals gays too lead normal lives (jobs, relationships etc)

It does get VERY tiresome being told how YOU think WE ought to live our lives. We don't want to be 'just like heterosexuals'. We want to be us and Thailand, to a large degree, allows us that. It's only the farang element who think they've got the right to tell us how we ought to be. Well get over it boys. TiT.

[Loaded]

Chiang Mai is a city where being gay isn't negative. Why the need for a 'Pride' march? This strikes me as a Western-style protest against discrimination and Chiang Mai doesn't need that. Why not just have a fun mardi gras type day that's organised by the local gay community. Calling it 'pride' IMO is saying 'we are different and you must accept us' which is crazy in Chiang Mai where there are thousands of gays and no anti-gay discrimination that I'm aware of. It just seems a bit too dramatic.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Loaded

[StevieH]

Chiang Mai is a city where being gay isn't negative. Why the need for a 'Pride' march? This strikes me as a Western-style protest against discrimination and Chiang Mai doesn't need that. Why not just have a fun mardi gras type day that's organised by the local gay community. Calling it 'pride' IMO is saying 'we are different and you must accept us' which is crazy in Chiang Mai where there are thousands of gays and no anti-gay discrimination that I'm aware of. It just seems a bit too dramatic.

it's just a name, man. doesn't need microanalysis. it's a celebration and a party, not a protest.

[mc2]

why the need to have a song and dance in the street , thai ppl are thinking <deleted> , who cares , just get on with your life , show your pride by being proud of yourself in everyday life , dont kick up a fuss when u dont get your own way , stop ya moaning and loosen up a bit geez.

[Paagai]

Perhaps you could have regular gay days at Tuskers, in fact really you should be sponsoring this event no?

I hope people will find that Tuskers welcomes all kinds of people equally and that the clientele represents a diversity of people regardless of their nationality, race, sexual preference or age. I happen to think diversity of clientele is a strength for any organisation whether it is a bar, company, club or country. I would have no problem hosting a gay event if the people from the community wanted it. Just as I have hosted events for the Scottish, Dutch and other communities over the past year. These events however were not exclusive to those particular groups but enjoyed by all. Exactly what I was getting at in my earlier post which struck a chord with Orang37.

Have to say on the few occasions I've dropped in with some Tai Yai friends for a Lao beer and a game of pool the staff have always been very welcoming. So that's two minorities catered for........

[PeaceBlondie]

The sad facts are that there has always been and forever will, be prejudices against minority groups.

This includes people of certain religions, races, political persuasions and sexual deviations.

It’s human nature and we are all suspicious and sometimes a little afraid of people that appear different from what we consider is the norm.

Human ways of thinking have not changed much in these so called modern times.

It’s a fact of life that I cannot see changing, well, not in the lifetimes of us ThaiVisa members anyway.

Sassy, I hear ya. I have always been prejudiced against drinkers of straight coffee, and haggis eaters. Nothing wrong with those of us who drink cold chocolate milk, though.

[daoyai]

Parades and festivals are a good thing, hopefully a gay pride parade would represent the variety of factions and diversity of gay people. There will be the predictable gender bender types and all that and maybe also other less flamboyant folks, I would expect some well made floats and displays with flowers and good design (stereotyping I know). Doesn't seem that anyone is forcing any sexuality changes on anyone else or forcing anything down anyones throat, If the parade happens, I will attend (I am straight and secure in my sexuality).

[Tyke]

why the need to have a song and dance in the street , thai ppl are thinking <deleted> , who cares , just get on with your life , show your pride by being proud of yourself in everyday life , dont kick up a fuss when u dont get your own way , stop ya moaning and loosen up a bit geez.

Huh? - are u saying that the general Thai people think all this mush? I'm sure the Thai public would love a good free show as usual. They wouldn't think anything like this - they would just enjoy the show. Do you live in Thailand or just making all this up from afar?

[mc2]

i suppose some people might like it. but with this recent goverment clampdown on things percieved not to belong to Thai culture , it would be wise to lay low for a while . no use pushing for something that is not critical , it wont achieve anything i dont think .

and i don't see how my location has got anything to do with it unless u think that a person living in Thailand suddenly the culture is revealed to him and once he is on the plane going home that knowledge suddenly dissapears.

anyway we dont agree , thats fine .

[ilovecm]

rather a couple of Gay people - one Thai and one German who complained.

a gay couple complained about it?

ooooh the bloody bigots!

Not a Thai couple.. well

One very well known Thai who pioneered gay rights in Thailand was involved. Who knows why and a gay couple, newly moved to CM, one thai and one German. God knows why. This event is as inclusive as it comes.

i do not know the people involved - but it sounds like you do - do you think they know the trouble they have caused - do they care!. i said before - they should be publically ostracised by the gay community

[Nienke]

I have always been prejudiced against drinkers of straight coffee,

Oh my gawd! You've never tried it with a sip of amaretto in it? NOW, I'm disappointed!

[Nienke]

In the US and many other countries all over the world, even today, gay young people commit suicide in much greater percentage than others. Heteros think that is because they are sad they are gay. But they are wrong, the reason is that they are rejected by their families, friends, religions, etc. for being gay and their self esteem is crushed and adolescents have limited coping ability.

And that's is so intense sad! And for what? We are all human beings and we all do descent from the monkeys.

[jdinasia]

why the need to have a song and dance in the street , thai ppl are thinking <deleted> , who cares , just get on with your life , show your pride by being proud of yourself in everyday life , dont kick up a fuss when u dont get your own way , stop ya moaning and loosen up a bit geez.

Huh? - are u saying that the general Thai people think all this mush? I'm sure the Thai public would love a good free show as usual. They wouldn't think anything like this - they would just enjoy the show. Do you live in Thailand or just making all this up from afar?

LOL ... trust me .. this guy has no clue what "thai ppl are thinking" (sic)

[mc2]

why the need to have a song and dance in the street , thai ppl are thinking <deleted> , who cares , just get on with your life , show your pride by being proud of yourself in everyday life , dont kick up a fuss when u dont get your own way , stop ya moaning and loosen up a bit geez.

Huh? - are u saying that the general Thai people think all this mush? I'm sure the Thai public would love a good free show as usual. They wouldn't think anything like this - they would just enjoy the show. Do you live in Thailand or just making all this up from afar?

LOL ... trust me .. this guy has no clue what "thai ppl are thinking" (sic)

go back to the playground , this forum is for grownups

[Paagai]

why the need to have a song and dance in the street , thai ppl are thinking <deleted> , who cares , just get on with your life , show your pride by being proud of yourself in everyday life , dont kick up a fuss when u dont get your own way , stop ya moaning and loosen up a bit geez.

Huh? - are u saying that the general Thai people think all this mush? I'm sure the Thai public would love a good free show as usual. They wouldn't think anything like this - they would just enjoy the show. Do you live in Thailand or just making all this up from afar?

LOL ... trust me .. this guy has no clue what "thai ppl are thinking" (sic)

go back to the playground , this forum is for grownups

Don't worry we're here already, Thailand is the playground and is completely devoid of grownups

[jupiterandromeda]

I my opinion most people writing here have no idea what is happening in the country they are living in.

The Gay Pride Events have from the beginning been organized by Thai people. NGO's working in the field of AIDS, trying to bring equality to LGBT.

They succeed much more than participants here know, but it is in a quiet Thai way

Not the usual loudmouthed white hetrosexual male manner of I know everything. This attitude is already dead, though someone needs to tell them.

Like the racist attitudes against Blacks in America, the same stereotype comments abound.

One person talks of objective research, but only brings up heresay with unsubstantiated facts.

Gay Pride is open to all LGBT groups, but first and foremost to Thai groups who used this event to build community consensus and, well.... pride of being who they are.

It;s a no small thing to stand up and claim your own human rights if you are differerent from others. They do not make room for you at the table easily. If some of the expressions of gay pride are a little too much, then consider them as a reaction to years of oppression and denying of human dignity.

Yes, it appears that gays are more accepted in Thai society. However, when you look deeper into the fabric of the culture you will find many restrictions on how one could and should exercise one's life.

This deeper understanding of Thailand takes years to understand a little. What is happening here is Gay Thai are taking the western model of Gay Pride and trying to adapt it to circumstances here.

Gay Pride happens all around the world. It is an expression of the joy of being. If some people are offended by parts of the presentation, well dont look. Many things in hetro

society we find boring and turn to another channel. This does not mean that we do not respect you as individuals. No, we see the hetrosexual majority in dissaray, trying to cope with a world order falling apart before their eyes. The issue of gender and what makes a man and a woman is changing before our eyes. The old ideas of masculinity and feminity have changed. There is no control now on how much of either is right. For centuries, perhaps millennia this question of what;s right and wrong has plagued humanity. Well enough!

What does it matter that someone presents him or herself differently to the 'normal' equasion. All that does is to cause everyone to reexamine themselves. Since it is too disturbing to most people to question themselves, they hit out at what they perceive to be deficient in others. We could all benefit from turning inward and seeing own atttudes for what they are, constructs of our culture, definitions from parents and elders.

I suggest to you that gender identity is something that changes over time and people go into more feminity or more masculinity all the time. So to deny someone's shift of identity only points to your own fears. Gender is not fixed.

The ridiculous comment about condom display is innane. We live in an age of AIDS. Promiscuity is a danger for all. We're not Victorians after all.

[gpdjohn]

I know in my case what hurt the most when I came out as a youth was the instant rejection from some friends and family members. One so called friend called me a degenerate to my face, and he was a Yale man (like George W. Bush).

and so are/were:

Bill Clinton

Hillary Clinton

Gerald Ford

Dick Cavett

John Kerry

Gilbert Colgate

Benjamin Spock

Wm. Kunstler

L. Paul Bremmer

Cyrus Vance

Henry Winkler

David Gergen

Ed Meese

John Negroponte

Bob Woodward

Gary Trudeau

Wm. F Buckley

Stone Phillips

Samuel Morse

Alan Dershowitz

Wm. Taft

Susan Choi

Yasir Qadhi

and the list goes on...

What's Dubya got to do with having a parade????

[jdinasia]

I my opinion most people writing here have no idea what is happening in the country they are living in.

The Gay Pride Events have from the beginning been organized by Thai people. NGO's working in the field of AIDS, trying to bring equality to LGBT.

huh?

I agree with your opinion ....

But then the rest ........ oi!

[FatherF]

I my opinion most people writing here have no idea what is happening in the country they are living in.

The Gay Pride Events have from the beginning been organized by Thai people. NGO's working in the field of AIDS, trying to bring equality to LGBT.

They succeed much more than participants here know, but it is in a quiet Thai way

Not the usual loudmouthed white hetrosexual male manner of I know everything. This attitude is already dead, though someone needs to tell them.

Like the racist attitudes against Blacks in America, the same stereotype comments abound.

One person talks of objective research, but only brings up heresay with unsubstantiated facts.

Gay Pride is open to all LGBT groups, but first and foremost to Thai groups who used this event to build community consensus and, well.... pride of being who they are.

It;s a no small thing to stand up and claim your own human rights if you are differerent from others. They do not make room for you at the table easily. If some of the expressions of gay pride are a little too much, then consider them as a reaction to years of oppression and denying of human dignity.

Yes, it appears that gays are more accepted in Thai society. However, when you look deeper into the fabric of the culture you will find many restrictions on how one could and should exercise one's life.

This deeper understanding of Thailand takes years to understand a little. What is happening here is Gay Thai are taking the western model of Gay Pride and trying to adapt it to circumstances here.

Gay Pride happens all around the world. It is an expression of the joy of being. If some people are offended by parts of the presentation, well dont look. Many things in hetro

society we find boring and turn to another channel. This does not mean that we do not respect you as individuals. No, we see the hetrosexual majority in dissaray, trying to cope with a world order falling apart before their eyes. The issue of gender and what makes a man and a woman is changing before our eyes. The old ideas of masculinity and feminity have changed. There is no control now on how much of either is right. For centuries, perhaps millennia this question of what;s right and wrong has plagued humanity. Well enough!

What does it matter that someone presents him or herself differently to the 'normal' equasion. All that does is to cause everyone to reexamine themselves. Since it is too disturbing to most people to question themselves, they hit out at what they perceive to be deficient in others. We could all benefit from turning inward and seeing own atttudes for what they are, constructs of our culture, definitions from parents and elders.

I suggest to you that gender identity is something that changes over time and people go into more feminity or more masculinity all the time. So to deny someone's shift of identity only points to your own fears. Gender is not fixed.

The ridiculous comment about condom display is innane. We live in an age of AIDS. Promiscuity is a danger for all. We're not Victorians after all.

A very well written and presented post! Maybe some other posters should take note!

Good luck

FF

[Sao Jiang Mai]

I think that the six pages written about this event has shown that there is indeed a necessity for such a parade. There is a lot of ignorance about gay-related issues. These people are trying to raise awareness and do a good thing. If you want to go, go, if you don't want to go, avoid it. Nothing is being shoved in anyone's faces, the Chinese community held a Chinese new year celebratoin recently, on children's day they hold a celebration, yada yada. No harm, and possible gain. So what is the problem. MPlus is an excellent organisation, their article in The Nation was very well written and had pertinent points. Chiang Mai is a city of diversity, let's celebrate it and if it helps MPlus to prevent spreak of HIV, then all the better. Go gays!