Farang Kids Being Raised By The Isaan Nanny

[luisparis]

Judging by what you say of your 2 year olds behavior outside of the home , this child is definitely not getting the training he/she requires , with this lack in the early years you will soon (if not already) have a full blown brat on your hands . Discipline training is not in the average Thai hand book of child rearing , or so it would appear , the proof of this should be your having to have your child restrained by a nanny whilst you and your wife do shopping for fear he/she will create havoc , i.e. 'Bull in a china shop' . Pity the poor child .

Such a weird thread on people thinking they had the best way for others' childs... ours has been taken care of from day one by the nanny, a northern chinese in Paris than a nepali burmese in BKK, and she is groomed to become a brat . Why not ? At least when drunk driving her dad's car at 18 she will have social skills good enough to notice the difference between driving over a motorbike taxi or a fair skin kid from the richer local schools, and hopefully will aim for the right target when losing control. I mostly worry how she would cope with more egalitarian western democracies if we head back there.

Edited February 19, 2009 by luisparis

[aussiejosh]

Just for clarification, I wasn't suggesting any methods for parenting children its a massive challenge in this day and age, especially if you are trying to raise on in an international environment. I am just pointing out common flaws in parenting... There is no 'way' to raise a children imo, all individuals.

[t.s]

Anyone ever see a Thai couple with a Farang nanny? That'll be the day!

I've known plenty of down at heel Farangs who would do anything for money and I mean anything, being a nanny would be a breeze.

Personally I wouldn't let them within 50 feet of my kids but eh, maybe I know better.

from personal experience being a nanny is anything but easy. takes remarkable patience.

[NanLaew]

It would appear to me that some, if not most of the Isaan nanny-hating farangs posting opinions here are probably resident in Krung Thep? Possibly a fair few of those have a preference to wear yellow? I know every single one of them has an arsehol_e.

Just beats me how the darn thing got so handy on a keyboard.

[Maigo6]

I know every single one of them has an arsehol_e.

Or is that meant to be is....

[Travel2003]

My KIds a Black Belt in Origami, if you had told him to shut the #$*! up he would have leapt over the seat and gave you a few swift kicks and punches, double somersaulted back over and landed perfectly in his seat and carried on his conversation.

Waddya gonna do about that ?

I'd lock him in the cupboard with the rest of the unruly kids I have encountered.

Easyer way to do it.

Throw him a brochure about the latest hi-tech mobile phones.

He will shut up and be busy thinking about what to tell daddy, so he can get money for a new phone.

[Heng]

Such a weird thread on people thinking they had the best way for others' childs... ours has been taken care of from day one by the nanny, a northern chinese in Paris than a nepali burmese in BKK, and she is groomed to become a brat . Why not ? At least when drunk driving her dad's car at 18 she will have social skills good enough to notice the difference between driving over a motorbike taxi or a fair skin kid from the richer local schools, and hopefully will aim for the right target when losing control. I mostly worry how she would cope with more egalitarian western democracies if we head back there.

Nothing to worry about. The only major difference is that you would need to keep a good lawyer on retainer.

[shochu]

the ultimate creation that humans can achieve/do without thought has no restrictions whatsoever so any twit can create/do is simply amusing in the least.

i am firmly behind regulation/laws to limit the ability to procreate to only those that have shown some ability to be good parents!

[Siphon]

Ive never been able to understand this phenomenon. Rich parents pay someone with no education to raise their children for them. The fact that they are wealthy suggests that you are educated, therefore, how do they come to this decision? You cannpt go to the Phrom Pong area without seeing this. Half the time, the nanny will be chatting wildly with another nanny while the children walk behind them. You even see the farang children speaking degrees of fluent Thai and Isaan. Why do people have children if they have no interest in actually raising and caring for them?

Also, for those of you with teenage farang kids in high school and middle school here, can you pretty please tell them to Shut the F@## up in the movie theaters? I had to embarrass a couple of them the other day, and I know its not good for their self esteem, but since you have not taught them simple manners, I guess I have to. Please, do a better job raising your kids here inbetween all your "working late" nights.

ok, i was raised here as an international student at BPS....and what you are saying is truly insulting.....you are sterotyping international students here...and as it is there is enough sterotyping in this country as it is thank you....

and btw i am not saying that internationals are in any way 'behaved'.....they are usually not....i understand that completely, but please do not generalise us...and for the record, my teachers are not 'uneducated'...sigh....honestly though saying "Why do people have children if they have no interest in actually raising and caring for them" you clearly do not understand what international schools here offer their graduates....in this matter i can say that you are completely ignorant...

Siphon

[jcon]

"Farang Kids Being Raised By The Isaan Nanny"

.... is cringe-worthy... yuck.

[aussiejosh]

Ive never been able to understand this phenomenon. Rich parents pay someone with no education to raise their children for them. The fact that they are wealthy suggests that you are educated, therefore, how do they come to this decision? You cannpt go to the Phrom Pong area without seeing this. Half the time, the nanny will be chatting wildly with another nanny while the children walk behind them. You even see the farang children speaking degrees of fluent Thai and Isaan. Why do people have children if they have no interest in actually raising and caring for them?

Also, for those of you with teenage farang kids in high school and middle school here, can you pretty please tell them to Shut the F@## up in the movie theaters? I had to embarrass a couple of them the other day, and I know its not good for their self esteem, but since you have not taught them simple manners, I guess I have to. Please, do a better job raising your kids here inbetween all your "working late" nights.

ok, i was raised here as an international student at BPS....and what you are saying is truly insulting.....you are sterotyping international students here...and as it is there is enough sterotyping in this country as it is thank you....

and btw i am not saying that internationals are in any way 'behaved'.....they are usually not....i understand that completely, but please do not generalise us...and for the record, my teachers are not 'uneducated'...sigh....honestly though saying "Why do people have children if they have no interest in actually raising and caring for them" you clearly do not understand what international schools here offer their graduates....in this matter i can say that you are completely ignorant...

Siphon

I agree that international schools give us a lot of opportunity but 95% of the kids grow up with an elitist 'i don't care what happens to anyone else but myself attitude'. Yeah there are the few in each year group who believe their saints and gods gift to the world, they study like their parents told them to and are goody goody two shoes types, but they don't have any idea what happens outside of their small select group as no one else likes them, perhaps you were in this group?...

and BTW you are misreading his post, he is saying that the issan nanny is the uneducated one left to raise the kids, not the teacher from the international school.

[luisparis]

Nothing to worry about. The only major difference is that you would need to keep a good lawyer on retainer.

At 250euros+ VAT per hour, I can see my Paris lawyer happy to cook a bit and crash at our place Nah... we really have to teach the sweet daughter to refrain from murdering poorer folks in countries with a legal system so disrespectful of the simple pleasures of those nanny raised youth ...

Edited February 20, 2009 by luisparis

[onethailand]

Never EVER send your kids to saint Andrews.... and if you have a kid there get them out... full of little crack smoking psychos that school. My girlfriend currently attends St Andrews (final year) and she told me she has seen kids smoking yaabaa in the class and the teacher ignoring them... <deleted> kind of school is that! She says she regrets leaving BPS although all the snobs were there...

Utter rubbish. If you/your girlfriend really believes this, name the class and the teacher.

[blue eyes]

The years I lived in Thailand as a child I had two live in nanny/housekeepers,they are sisters and from Issan.When I lived in Bangkok I went to ISB as did my sister and brother and we had a good education and good memories of that time.I think that is why as an adult I could never get my love for Thailand and its people out of my mind.So I guess that is my curse,I married a beautiful woman from Issan and had kids and am living a beautiful and happy life.So there.

Edited February 20, 2009 by blue eyes

[HYENA]

Ive never been able to understand this phenomenon. Rich parents pay someone with no education to raise their children for them. The fact that they are wealthy suggests that you are educated, therefore, how do they come to this decision? You cannpt go to the Phrom Pong area without seeing this. Half the time, the nanny will be chatting wildly with another nanny while the children walk behind them. You even see the farang children speaking degrees of fluent Thai and Isaan. Why do people have children if they have no interest in actually raising and caring for them?

Also, for those of you with teenage farang kids in high school and middle school here, can you pretty please tell them to Shut the F@## up in the movie theaters? I had to embarrass a couple of them the other day, and I know its not good for their self esteem, but since you have not taught them simple manners, I guess I have to. Please, do a better job raising your kids here inbetween all your "working late" nights.

Acceptance is the key to serenity.

It's not easy to step back and not worrying about controlling others. A moment passes, the noise will cease...another moment passes and the Isaan nanny will have passed by and will be out of sight so you're just left with the original issue; acceptance.

[dumball]

I am guess you are just a troll,

Wow and that's what i was thinking about the OP?

I mean really! I would HATE for a child to be raised in Thailand and be bilingual or trilingual from an early age! I would also hate having to answer to some random stranger that thought HE knew how I should raise my child!

Many have a problem being mono-lingual , bilinguals speak a form of bastardised English and have a problem understanding the spoken word , never mind the written version .

Who do you think most nannies are if not random ? Should you be of the opinion someone steeped in history and historic teachings passed down from generation to generation is the ideal answer to your childs welfare , education and discipline , yes , you have a great possibility you could learn from a random stranger how to raise your child , you do not seem to have any idea . Just take a look at the general surroundings , filth and garbage everywhere , dust and fire smoke constantly in the air , half pie-eyed and more interested in the next hand at cards than some Farangs brat . A little over the top , yes , but close to home in Issan .

[dumball]

Ive never been able to understand this phenomenon. Rich parents pay someone with no education to raise their children for them. The fact that they are wealthy suggests that you are educated, therefore, how do they come to this decision? You cannpt go to the Phrom Pong area without seeing this. Half the time, the nanny will be chatting wildly with another nanny while the children walk behind them. You even see the farang children speaking degrees of fluent Thai and Isaan. Why do people have children if they have no interest in actually raising and caring for them?

My kid (Thai kid, Thai parents) spends plenty of time with the nanny, but without a doubt also spends more time with his parents than well... likely most families on the planet. We just choose to enjoy not being tired/grumpy/overworked. I'd wager that you don't do all the work on your car everytime it's due for a checkup at 10,000 kilometers either. Some other benefits...

-the wife doesn't have to be a full time mom when she's hauling around another 10+ kgs. of water + baby (Heng Junior's sibling on the way).... I've seen plenty of people have to do exactly that, and IMO it directly impacts on the second child's development

-they get first hand contact with someone from the complete opposite side of the socio-economic spectrum and thus get to see close up what happens when one is disadvantaged in terms of education and financial planning over generations

-you don't have to get poop and urine on your hands / and baby food on your clothes everyday for several years to bond with your children... I think that's mostly wishful thinking. A few times a week is plenty (and for myself, I think HJ enjoys "sports and play" time with me more than "making sure all the feces is cleared from your butt crack" time)

But yes, there are types as well who don't spend much time with their kids... and *shock* did you know there are people from all nationalities that send their kids to boarding school and use these things called "daycare centers?"

It hardly means that all or even most people with nanny's or who went to military school don't know or have a close relationship with their folks.

that's pretty much not what i am talking about. neither is the nanny that accompanies mommy and caries the groceries home. if you live near emporium or spend a lot of time around there you will know what i am talking about. it is a simple observation that the farang children are being looked after much more like the way the Isaan nanny would look after her own children (laughing at them when they put a bag over their head) when she is outside the house and out of your view.

how often does the nanny leave the home alone with your son?

Still, I think you're probably imagining more than what is actually taking place. My nanny doesn't leave home alone with my son but she will often be alone with him in shopping centers: Emporium, Paragon, Central Chidlom, Central Pattaya included. Often during the time me and the wife decide to have a meal without HJ playing the drums or baseball with the tableware. Or when me or her decide that we'd like to buy something without spending less than 45 seconds or less (which I'm sure you know is about average for a 1 to 2 year old's attention span) thinking about it before having to run after HJ who is heading straight for the crystal and china section of the department store.

It doesn't mean she spends more time with him although I'm sure (now) that some people probably think that.

Judging by what you say of your 2 year olds behavior outside of the home , this child is definitely not getting the training he/she requires , with this lack in the early years you will soon (if not already) have a full blown brat on your hands . Discipline training is not in the average Thai hand book of child rearing , or so it would appear , the proof of this should be your having to have your child restrained by a nanny whilst you and your wife do shopping for fear he/she will create havoc , i.e. 'Bull in a china shop' . Pity the poor child .

Nah, you're in the same making assumptions/jumping to conclusions from lack of data crew as Dave with that one. It'd be just as silly for me to assume that your child clearly has cerebral palsy because of his apparent sluggishness in movement on a particular afternoon. LOL.

So be it , any child (other than physically/mentaly disabled) should be able to accompany its parents most places without causing a scene or destroying other peoples property , if you cannot understand this then you need parental guidance for your childs sake , for you it seems a little late .

[dumball]

Hey blue eyes , do not think you are cursed , just change your name to ALICE and all will be well .

[Heng]

So be it , any child (other than physically/mentaly disabled) should be able to accompany its parents most places without causing a scene or destroying other peoples property , if you cannot understand this then you need parental guidance for your childs sake , for you it seems a little late .

After a certain point, absolutely. From ages 1-2, for myself, constantly restraining a child or training them to be a wallflower is stunting his/her development. If you're raising a pocket poodle, then yes, IMO you've probably got yourself a good child raising formula. But to each his own, I'm not making too many assumptions as I don't even know if you have any kids or can even support him/her properly.

It's amazing how many people try to talk down things that are presumably out of their reach or impractical for their own lives (like saying how overrated private schools are, how hired help is slavery and bad for children, not to mention the whole crew of folks on TV who try to talk people out of life in Thailand despite not even living here any more...etc.). Nanny's are good vs. nanny's are bad is a discussion more akin to "are tires good for my car?" There are plenty of low and high quality tires out there with all kinds of specifications.

[luisparis]

Many have a problem being mono-lingual , bilinguals speak a form of bastardised English and have a problem understanding the spoken word , never mind the written version .

Uh?!? you're advising monolingual education ( and from bi/multilingual parents at that...) ?? You ever heard about quality schooling ? It helps spelling ya know... Know many executives who are not multilingual, especially in non english speaking countries ?? Guess how many of them grew up around nannies, particulary in Asia ??

Do you have kids seriously ?? If you had what would be your ambition for them ?

I'm afraid you missed the boat here...

Edited February 21, 2009 by luisparis

[Jimjim]

so when a group of kids are yelling to the next group of kids in a different row in a theater and ruining the experience for the rest of the audience, and I tell them to stop, I am embarrassing myself?

No, you're not, but the rest of your OP rant is off base. Kids are kids. They're often rude and obnoxious these days anywhere in the world, particularly where I live in the U.S. And I've seen a lot of Thai kids be just as loud and obnoxious at the wrong times.

[dumball]

Many have a problem being mono-lingual , bilinguals speak a form of bastardised English and have a problem understanding the spoken word , never mind the written version .

Uh?!? you're advising monolingual education ( and from bi/multilingual parents at that...) ?? You ever heard about quality schooling ? It helps spelling ya know... Know many executives who are not multilingual, especially in non english speaking countries ?? Guess how many of them grew up around nannies, particulary in Asia ??

Do you have kids seriously ?? If you had what would be your ambition for them ?

I'm afraid you missed the boat here...

My ambitions for my 4 children turned into reality , they are polite and caring for other people and thier property . They have self owned buisnisses except one , she is a montasouri who started non profit pre-school child care in our county and currently gives counseling to parents of preschool children , gives lectures/seminars and discussions on Breakfast Morning TV . Did not miss the boat , took a plane and moved us all to a country with better chances for thier futures , No nannies , wife was full time home care . Next question !!!!!!!

[spectrum]

"The reason Issan nannies are hired is identical to the reason western men prefer those fun loving 4th grade educated Thai bar girls to their attitudinal western ones. Issan ladies hve 'traditional values' adhere to gender roles, they are just born to be loving nurturing mommies! I think it's a total power trip and need to exploit under the guise of benevolence, 'oh well we're giving Putaporn such a great opportunity to learn about America here in Thailand'. Don't be offended everyone exploits in their own way when they can. Only in this case it is not frowned upon or seen as taboo. Sir Farangy and his wife just find it so adorable to have a non confrontational, docile Issan slave at their beck and call. Suzie Wong meets Mary Poppins? "

Well said, wasabi, though your interpretation may (deliberately) not be quite complete .

So far as children in bi-lingual families go, I think the jury may still be out. I think that having each parent (or other guardian/s) consistently using one language with the child is still considered best. The fewer languages/dialects the better, in general, but so far as I know, early exposure to two languages is considered entirely possible and, indeed. good, in terms of opening new neural pathways. Observe your child closely, to see how they are dealing with it all. Judge accordingly.

The bi-culturalism is where the greatest difficulties may arise. I'd say both parents need to be sufficiently present (and in sufficient agreement) for the child to establish values that sit well with him/her and are not in too much conflict with their environment. That may not always be easy, given some of the outright contradictions between certain highly-regarded values in "Western" and Thai/Asian cultures.

Edited February 21, 2009 by spectrum

[dumball]

Trilingualism can be good if performed in a controlled environment , haphazard switching back and forth can be both confusing and detrimental for a young child . However , an experimental teaching process was implimented in Thailand , whereby young children were placed in immersion classes for 3 languages , Thai , English and Mandarin , they perfomed the exact same lessons with native speakers on the same day . After a period of time , the children became fluent in all three languages .How this finished up I have no idea , never heard or read any more about it .

In Canada , the most successfull method of teaching French as a second language , was by 'Total immersion' , a method I was taught by many years ago , slowly by lack of use my French has become eroded . The only fault with the Canadian method is that basicaly Parisian French is taught , the french people of Canada do not speak Parisian French , they speak 'Quebecouis' , a truly bastardised version .

[Thai at Heart]

Trilingualism or quadralism can be achieved. Just imagine a Spanish mother, and English father moving to Switzerland with kids aged 8 years old. School takes care of some, parents take care of the rest. As I said from my understanding it is unlikely that they will become equally proficient at all, but with effort can manage the appearance of fluency for daily living in all languages. With academic study in school, and disciplined parents only using their native tongue when addressing their kids there is no reason why it can't be done.

I understand however that learning a second language orally before the ago 7 is the key. Kids process languages differently during their formative years and their brain becomes somewhat hardwired to processing all language in that way. Hence it has been proven that bi-lingual children are capable of learning 3rd or 4th languages more easily later in life.

[pacovl46]

yes

no, he isn't!!! there's nothing more annoying than people or kids or whatever talking all the time in a movie theater. i'd tell them to be quiet, too!

[pacovl46]

so when a group of kids are yelling to the next group of kids in a different row in a theater and ruining the experience for the rest of the audience, and I tell them to stop, I am embarrassing myself?

No, you're not. I'm with you there all the way!

[jwicklund]

The years I lived in Thailand as a child I had two live in nanny/housekeepers,they are sisters and from Issan.When I lived in Bangkok I went to ISB as did my sister and brother and we had a good education and good memories of that time.I think that is why as an adult I could never get my love for Thailand and its people out of my mind.So I guess that is my curse,I married a beautiful woman from Issan and had kids and am living a beautiful and happy life.So there.

Glad things turned out well for you.

I am Thai, born in Isaan, actually, but grew up in the States and travelled much. The first few years of my life was in the care of two Isaan nannies. My parents were busy professors. You got lucky. My two nannies were so mean I can remember them 38 years later. Once my parents were gone, I was yelled at, pushed, pinched ( the liked to grab a fold of skin and twist till you scream ) and ridiculed in coarse Isaan language. I was too little to know how to articulate what was happening to my parents. The other nannies around our neighborhood were the same.

I know it is debatable, but little or no education, coupled with a hard life, IMO, DOES make a difference in people's treatment of others. I soiled my pants as a small child and instead of helping me go potty, they stood me there and mocked me, parading me around for ridicule, without cleaning me up. Refused to let me bathe. Kept away food. etc... The only Isaan nannies I've seen were coarse and didn't care about dangerous situations, like most in the west. Nannies come cheap. Just go elsewhere if fired.

I know others out there have had great nannies from Isaan but as an Isaan born woman, having been there and seen it myself as a child, I would never consider an Isaan nanny. Luckily, I don't have to.

That said, good for you! I probably got the worse of the bunch.

[luisparis]

The years I lived in Thailand as a child I had two live in nanny/housekeepers,they are sisters and from Issan.When I lived in Bangkok I went to ISB as did my sister and brother and we had a good education and good memories of that time.I think that is why as an adult I could never get my love for Thailand and its people out of my mind.So I guess that is my curse,I married a beautiful woman from Issan and had kids and am living a beautiful and happy life.So there.

Glad things turned out well for you.

I am Thai, born in Isaan, actually, but grew up in the States and travelled much. The first few years of my life was in the care of two Isaan nannies. My parents were busy professors. You got lucky. My two nannies were so mean I can remember them 38 years later. Once my parents were gone, I was yelled at, pushed, pinched ( the liked to grab a fold of skin and twist till you scream ) and ridiculed in coarse Isaan language. I was too little to know how to articulate what was happening to my parents. The other nannies around our neighborhood were the same.

I know it is debatable, but little or no education, coupled with a hard life, IMO, DOES make a difference in people's treatment of others. I soiled my pants as a small child and instead of helping me go potty, they stood me there and mocked me, parading me around for ridicule, without cleaning me up. Refused to let me bathe. Kept away food. etc... The only Isaan nannies I've seen were coarse and didn't care about dangerous situations, like most in the west. Nannies come cheap. Just go elsewhere if fired.

I know others out there have had great nannies from Isaan but as an Isaan born woman, having been there and seen it myself as a child, I would never consider an Isaan nanny. Luckily, I don't have to.

That said, good for you! I probably got the worse of the bunch.

Jwicklund,

Not that I would contemplate the idea to let any wannabe nanny coming from Issan take care of my kids, but it's possible in your case your parents didn't take look into it intensely enough. They should have noticed if you were feeling really uncomfortable with your nannies.

As of kids learning a bunch of languages... it sure does look challenging... As we live in BKK, thai would be about the 4th language for our daughter -at best-, but I feel 3 would be more than enough to begin with... wrote on his topic to the Ministry of Education, the ministry of tourism, and even to the Palace, see if they would consider switching the national lingo to a more universal language, preferably catalan or at the very least french. No reply whatsoever, when I told you this country is so inconsiderate of its guests

Edited February 22, 2009 by luisparis

[Sam125]

This is a good thread because it gets people thinking.

As for the movies - politely asking someone to be quite is fine. Also if the situation is extreme why not ask the theater manager to handle it.

Nannies that are surrogate parents are possibly ok and possibly terrible it is a case by case situation.

An educated nannie is great if possible.

For kids 1 to 3 or 4 years old nannies should simply be an extension of mom with mom nearby to keep an eye on things