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Westerner's Decapitated Head Found Hanging Beneath Rama Viii Bridge


george

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UPDATE:

MY WIFE JUST INFORMED ME THAT IT WAS ANNOUCED ON THAI TV NEWS, THE GUY RAN OUT OF MONEY AND COULD NO LONGER AFFORD TO LIVE IN THAILAND.

HE BECAME DEPRESSED AND HUNG HIMSELF.

SO NOW YOU CAN FORM YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS

Thought it had been common knowledge for quite a few days already that he had money problems and had had no luck looking for work. Not sure that that necessarily means he was depressed and that this was enough alone for him to consider suicide. Could have been but i would guess if he did indeed kill himself, he had other issues that contributed to pushing him over the edge (no pun intended).

P.S. Why the need to shout mate?

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Thailand based reporter Andrew Drummond is one, within two days of this incident he had collaberated with The Sun newspaper in Britain. A newspaper (and news of the world) he has published many stories - see his website.

This dude is well known for inaccurate and extremely sensationalist stories. He just wants them to get published and get paid. Look at any of the inaccurate, sensationalist, funny, and wacky stories you see about Thailand that pop up in the overseas English language press, and you will see they are usually written by him. For another example, he's been publishing that extremely misleading 'Thai School Opens Ladyboy Bathroom' story every single year for years now.

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Someone asked "Why the plastic bag"

The rope was probably carried in it, someone walking down the road with a with a coil of rope would attract more attention than someone carrying a plastic bag and I would suspect he was trying not to attract attention on his way to the bridge.

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OK are we missing something there?

Here are three pictures

bk1935.jpg

and

1b3-1.gif

and

23022009580.jpg

Now the FIRST picture shows the head INSIDE a bag - i can see, fairly clearly that the bag is tied up around the head. Also there seems to be a paramedic or medical person there - someone in a white jumpsuit, and someone who seems to be in uniform, you can see a badge on his left arm - perhaps not a uniform but does appear to be so.

The other pictures show a head outside of a bag or piece of plastic or material hanging there and yes - as if hanging by the skin of his neck - the head definitely not in a bag.... I cant find the orinial police report that said the head was IN the bag?

A few things dont add up....

If the head was INSIDE the bag - why were people in uniform there? Why were people taking photos? If I saw an object hanging from a bridge I would not assume it was a head, body part. A head in a plastic bag is the last thing I would think it may be. A bomb perhaps... a while ago a fuel-air bomb was found in chiang mai hanging from a bridge - it was defused and hushed up by the powers that be. So why would a doctor/paramedic/body snatcher be there climbing over the ralings to bring up something in a plastic bag - if they didnt know it was a head at that stage - how could they ? It's hanging from the ralings - so why the need to climb over the railings?

Strange story!

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xbones,

in the first pic, the HEAD is NOT inside the bag, the head is in front of the bag or if you prefer the bag is behind the head & YES it kindof looks like the head is in the bag.....if the photo was taken a few seconds later, the bag might have blown out a little & you would see that.

:o

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I did read a police report saying "a head was found IN a bag".. i cant find it now

xbones,

in the first pic, the HEAD is NOT inside the bag, the head is in front of the bag or if you prefer the bag is behind the head & YES it kindof looks like the head is in the bag.....if the photo was taken a few seconds later, the bag might have blown out a little & you would see that.

:o

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I did read a police report saying "a head was found IN a bag".. i cant find it now
xbones,

in the first pic, the HEAD is NOT inside the bag, the head is in front of the bag or if you prefer the bag is behind the head & YES it kindof looks like the head is in the bag.....if the photo was taken a few seconds later, the bag might have blown out a little & you would see that.

:o

hey xbones, I was there dude, the head was NOT in the bag, okay :D

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OK are we missing something there?

Here are three pictures

bk1935.jpg

and

1b3-1.gif

and

23022009580.jpg

Now the FIRST picture shows the head INSIDE a bag - i can see, fairly clearly that the bag is tied up around the head. Also there seems to be a paramedic or medical person there - someone in a white jumpsuit, and someone who seems to be in uniform, you can see a badge on his left arm - perhaps not a uniform but does appear to be so.

The other pictures show a head outside of a bag or piece of plastic or material hanging there and yes - as if hanging by the skin of his neck - the head definitely not in a bag.... I cant find the orinial police report that said the head was IN the bag?

A few things dont add up....

If the head was INSIDE the bag - why were people in uniform there? Why were people taking photos? If I saw an object hanging from a bridge I would not assume it was a head, body part. A head in a plastic bag is the last thing I would think it may be. A bomb perhaps... a while ago a fuel-air bomb was found in chiang mai hanging from a bridge - it was defused and hushed up by the powers that be. So why would a doctor/paramedic/body snatcher be there climbing over the ralings to bring up something in a plastic bag - if they didnt know it was a head at that stage - how could they ? It's hanging from the ralings - so why the need to climb over the railings?

Strange story!

Cant see any blood in this picture at all

11864.jpg

A long way to fall - its a wonder the rope didn't break. I am not an engineer but I wonder what forces an object of say 90KG+ falling over 10-15 meters would exert on the rope. What is the strength of a cheap nylon rope purchased at 7/11??

Somthing is a bit fishy here

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I did read a police report saying "a head was found IN a bag".. i cant find it now
xbones,

in the first pic, the HEAD is NOT inside the bag, the head is in front of the bag or if you prefer the bag is behind the head & YES it kindof looks like the head is in the bag.....if the photo was taken a few seconds later, the bag might have blown out a little & you would see that.

:o

hey xbones, I was there dude, the head was NOT in the bag, okay :D

You were there when the head was first discovered? Is it possible it was discovered and then put back for the sake of taking more pictures? Looks like a pretty long rope.. I wonder if you could see it was a head from the top of the bridge or the bottom for that matter.

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I did read a police report saying "a head was found IN a bag".. i cant find it now
xbones,

in the first pic, the HEAD is NOT inside the bag, the head is in front of the bag or if you prefer the bag is behind the head & YES it kindof looks like the head is in the bag.....if the photo was taken a few seconds later, the bag might have blown out a little & you would see that.

:o

hey xbones, I was there dude, the head was NOT in the bag, okay :D

You were there when the head was first discovered? Is it possible it was discovered and then put back for the sake of taking more pictures? Looks like a pretty long rope.. I wonder if you could see it was a head from the top of the bridge or the bottom for that matter.

xbones....you keep pushing, naturally that blood isnt going to show up in that pic, look at the distance & the glare on the concrete....how bout the pic taken from the moon, did it show the blood up?

How do you know the rope came from 7/11? :D

seriously you need to get over it......is that your head or something?

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I Have kept out of this so far because of all the abuse and silly speculation but but now I will have my 2 pennies worth.

Something that has not been mentioned on this thread untill recently is the blood on the bridge.

This indicates that he was alive when he went over the side.

This blood would have come from the ruptured arteries in the neck and been pumped out by the still beating heart, it would not have come from the head but from the body, for many years I killed my own meat and have cut enough animals throats to know what happens, each line of blood splatter would have come from one beat of the heart, although if more than one arterie was ruptured it could have all come at one go.

If you look the blood is a long way above where the head is hanging this could indicate that when he first went over the edge there was a lot of streatch in the rope, there is with many synthetic ropes, yes I know about rope too, assuming that the body and head stayed together at that point there would have been recoil, like a bungy effect, that could have lifted the body high enough to cause the blood stains. There then would have then been a secondary drop, and possibly more, that could have completed the tearing of tissue and seperated the body leaving the head hanging by the flap of skin that the 'not very good knot' had tightened up on.

This would have happened whether he jumped or was pushed however if he was pushed he would have had to have been either unconsious or restrained. If he was consious and not tied up and gagged he would have been kicking and screaming trying to attract attention. There appears to be no indication he was tied or unconcious.

It would also seem that a lone farang standing on the bridge, farang are mad dont you know they go all sorts of silly places to look at the scenary, would attract less attention from passing cars than a vehicle stopped, blocking a lane, and unloading a body and chucking it over the side.

Murder would appear very unlikely

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Not wanting to be another Columbo wannabe..but..I agree with many posters in that I find it hard to believe that nobody would have seen anything such as a couple of guys lifting a fully grown man over the edge of a bridge. At first (hearing the reports that the bag was over his head) thought of murder but it doesn't seem possible to me now.

Most likely (and yes, we will probably never know) the poor guy had a whole load of problems and decided to buy a length of rope, wander to the bridge, tie it around his neck and to the railing and jump off. This would not attract a great deal of attention as I see a lot of people, Thai and foreign, standing admiring the view on Bangkok's many bridges. I assume he did not realise that his weight would cause his decapitation.

As for the note...who knows? He could have written it, it could be entirely unrelated. That's one thing we'll never know.

Anyway, murder or suicide, it's another life lost in Amazing LIE land... RIP

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I Have kept out of this so far because of all the abuse and silly speculation but but now I will have my 2 pennies worth.

Something that has not been mentioned on this thread untill recently is the blood on the bridge.

This indicates that he was alive when he went over the side.

This blood would have come from the ruptured arteries in the neck and been pumped out by the still beating heart, it would not have come from the head but from the body, for many years I killed my own meat and have cut enough animals throats to know what happens, each line of blood splatter would have come from one beat of the heart, although if more than one arterie was ruptured it could have all come at one go.

If you look the blood is a long way above where the head is hanging this could indicate that when he first went over the edge there was a lot of streatch in the rope, there is with many synthetic ropes, yes I know about rope too, assuming that the body and head stayed together at that point there would have been recoil, like a bungy effect, that could have lifted the body high enough to cause the blood stains. There then would have then been a secondary drop, and possibly more, that could have completed the tearing of tissue and seperated the body leaving the head hanging by the flap of skin that the 'not very good knot' had tightened up on.

This would have happened whether he jumped or was pushed however if he was pushed he would have had to have been either unconsious or restrained. If he was consious and not tied up and gagged he would have been kicking and screaming trying to attract attention. There appears to be no indication he was tied or unconcious.

It would also seem that a lone farang standing on the bridge, farang are mad dont you know they go all sorts of silly places to look at the scenary, would attract less attention from passing cars than a vehicle stopped, blocking a lane, and unloading a body and chucking it over the side.

Murder would appear very unlikely

thanks Robbie, you added some substance to the discussion - including some unique insights that weren't mentioned earlier.

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Can any rock climbers here confirm if a 100kg person can fall 25 Foot (7.6 Metres) from a single anchor point, with only 25 foot of rope out and the rope doesnt break? Assuming this was the special stretchy rock climbing rope and not cheap nylon rope.

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Can any rock climbers here confirm if a 100kg person can fall 25 Foot (7.6 Metres) from a single anchor point, with only 25 foot of rope out and the rope doesnt break? Assuming this was the special stretchy rock climbing rope and not cheap nylon rope.

Energy of falling object 100Kg/7M with 10 Cm Strech: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/flobi.html (90+ KN)

Strength of normal climbing rope: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climbing_equi...ord_and_webbing (22 KN)

"Falls held. The UIAA standard fall test is thankfully very severe, far outstripping almost any fall you might encounter in the real world. For the test, a 175-pound weight is dropped 15 feet on a nine-foot section of rope over a 10mm radius (to simulate a carabiner catching the rope), resulting in a wrenching 1.78-factor fall. Every single rope must hold five of those falls to be certified; each rope in our test is certified to have survived at least six. There is also an optional UIAA “sharp-edge” test in which the 10mm radius is replaced with a 90-degree, .75mm edge. A rope must survive one fall to be certified. As some manufacturers are disputing the validity of this test, the UIAA Safety Committee has formed a working group to develop a more accurate test of a rope’s sharp-edge resistance."

Sorry to go on - but i find it hard to believe, i mean just looking at the pictures that someone could fall that distance and the rope not break. I also read of people who were instantly decaptitated from hanging with 1-2 Meter drops. This guy "hung around for a while too" and was not instantly decapitated from the fall.

Edited by CrossBones
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Ohh you can, can you? You knew him personally, did you?

Yes sir. Very well.

You know what, its totally up to him, but if in fact he did commit suicide, it would of been a bit nicer if he had thought of the other human beings around & not done it in such a messy and public way. I wonder if he was an inconsiderate person in life, because he certainly was in death.

I don't give a sweet flying F what you think about him and his way of committing suicide, and I would care even less in the unlikely event that I decided on doing it myself.

But if you are interested in telling him yourself, you can take a rope to Rama VIII, and the rest of the procedure should be familiar to you now.

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About his weight: he was about 60-65 kg, not more. He stood about 1.72, or 5' 8'', and was rather slim.

I read in a Thai article that the police are said to have found the number of a ladyboy in his mobile phone. They called him/her, and found out that Maurizio had asked him/her to have sex, but he/she refused because he was broke.

How's that for sensationalism? Postmortem gossip.

What I would like to say is that the homicide hypothesis would still stand in spite of this (clever) post above:

It would also seem that a lone farang standing on the bridge, farang are mad dont you know they go all sorts of silly places to look at the scenary, would attract less attention from passing cars than a vehicle stopped, blocking a lane, and unloading a body and chucking it over the side.

You don't need a van to carry the body and drop it from the bridge. You can behead him, put the head in a plastic bag, attach it to a rope, and nonchalantly throw the head off the bridge whilst sauntering down, after having knotted the rope to the railing. The body can be disposed of later (or before), at ease.

The telltale sign is the blood on the side, from a pumping heart. I agree that he must have been hanging for some time (maybe not long) before the body got torn off. Which makes the whole thing all the more gruesome.

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Can any rock climbers here confirm if a 100kg person can fall 25 Foot (7.6 Metres) from a single anchor point, with only 25 foot of rope out and the rope doesnt break? Assuming this was the special stretchy rock climbing rope and not cheap nylon rope.

Energy of falling object 100Kg/7M with 10 Cm Strech: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/flobi.html (90+ KN)

Strength of normal climbing rope: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climbing_equi...ord_and_webbing (22 KN)

"Falls held. The UIAA standard fall test is thankfully very severe, far outstripping almost any fall you might encounter in the real world. For the test, a 175-pound weight is dropped 15 feet on a nine-foot section of rope over a 10mm radius (to simulate a carabiner catching the rope), resulting in a wrenching 1.78-factor fall. Every single rope must hold five of those falls to be certified; each rope in our test is certified to have survived at least six. There is also an optional UIAA “sharp-edge” test in which the 10mm radius is replaced with a 90-degree, .75mm edge. A rope must survive one fall to be certified. As some manufacturers are disputing the validity of this test, the UIAA Safety Committee has formed a working group to develop a more accurate test of a rope’s sharp-edge resistance."

Sorry to go on - but i find it hard to believe, i mean just looking at the pictures that someone could fall that distance and the rope not break. I also read of people who were instantly decaptitated from hanging with 1-2 Meter drops. This guy "hung around for a while too" and was not instantly decapitated from the fall.

Looking at the first picture the rope is white. In the other pictures the rope is blue.. and red. In the final picture you can see a street light and what look like 2 other street lights attached to the railings - in the other pictures they are not there.

The final picture - you cant see any blood.

Things in Thailand never seem to be how they seem!

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We have no idea what the police really thought at first, all we get is very unreliable translated quotes from media without the best English ability. That's why it is completely pointless speculating on anything found in a newspaper article. Not to mention the possibility of completely altering or sensationalising a story in order to sell more papers.

Spot on, and that's why a few usually thoughtful posters went for the murder story - the ridiculous reports in the Thai "news" papers.

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OK are we missing something there?

Here are three pictures

bk1935.jpg

and

1b3-1.gif

and

23022009580.jpg

Now the FIRST picture shows the head INSIDE a bag - i can see, fairly clearly that the bag is tied up around the head. Also there seems to be a paramedic or medical person there - someone in a white jumpsuit, and someone who seems to be in uniform, you can see a badge on his left arm - perhaps not a uniform but does appear to be so.

The other pictures show a head outside of a bag or piece of plastic or material hanging there and yes - as if hanging by the skin of his neck - the head definitely not in a bag.... I cant find the orinial police report that said the head was IN the bag?

A few things dont add up....

If the head was INSIDE the bag - why were people in uniform there? Why were people taking photos? If I saw an object hanging from a bridge I would not assume it was a head, body part. A head in a plastic bag is the last thing I would think it may be. A bomb perhaps... a while ago a fuel-air bomb was found in chiang mai hanging from a bridge - it was defused and hushed up by the powers that be. So why would a doctor/paramedic/body snatcher be there climbing over the ralings to bring up something in a plastic bag - if they didnt know it was a head at that stage - how could they ? It's hanging from the ralings - so why the need to climb over the railings?

Strange story!

Cant see any blood in this picture at all

11864.jpg

A long way to fall - its a wonder the rope didn't break. I am not an engineer but I wonder what forces an object of say 90KG+ falling over 10-15 meters would exert on the rope. What is the strength of a cheap nylon rope purchased at 7/11??

Somthing is a bit fishy here

Could you be more respectful and stop doing such a stupid posts? read first, investigate and then shut up really... RESPECT!

the rope was strong enough because it was the kind of ropes you use for climbing! :o

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According to the Italian newspapers (www.corriere.it), Tosadori had stomach cancer.

No!... this newspaper doesn't talk about cancer,they are just telling the same story like in Thailand,a Tumor,but doesn't mean it was Cancer!!

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/09_febbrai...44f02aabc.shtml

Stop adding more details just to say something and respect this poor man who commit suicide by an act of desperation and abandon :o ...

R.I.P Signore Maurizio Tosadori

anybody speak Italian? so we can translate this article,....

I know her, she is fluent. So believe.. anyways, the guy said it was his mistake saying about the cancer stuff.. lol... he added that he knew the guy had many reasons and was planning to kill his self from a long time... what a jerk really, just gossiping and wondering from someone he don't even KNOW!.... troll guy!

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I agree with MADJBS. During the cousre of being a climber for more than 25 years, I and a few partners took some long falls, certainly much longer than the distance in question here. I know I took at least a couple of 60 foot 'screramers' and I had one friend who fell 80 or more feet. 25 foot falls were not infrequent occurances. I can say without any doubt, that barring damage to the rope, either before or durring the current event, other than the stress of the fall, (i.e. nothing hitting the rope and no sharp or abraisive edges that the rope runs over), I would expect and indeed feel absolutely confident in knowing that a good 11mm climbing rope would not break, even if I fell for the full 50 or so meter, (150 feet), length of the rope, through the air with nothing to 'slow me down'. I would be more worried about the anchor failing, or the impact on my partner at the other end of the rope. I have no reason to suspect that the rope in question here was a climbing rope. I don't know much about non-climbing ropes, but wouldn't be surprised if some of them too would not break in such a fall as the one we are discusing. Climbing ropes do streach quite a bit, which is what a falling climber would want them to do. I would Guess that a climbing rope would be less likely to cause a decapitation than a rope with less stretch, but that is just a guess. One other thing I will add is that a 35 foot fall is considered a 'death fall', that is, if you fall 35 feet through the air without hitting anything except the ground at the end of the fall, there is good chance you will die. Many have survived that distance, but at 35 feet I am told that the human body reaches 'free fall' speed, which is approximately 120 miles an hour. siamiam

I am a climber, there is no way a climbing rope would break with that load..
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I presume all the posters who stated that this was murder will now admit their mistake (sassienie, sriracha john, etc)

Edit:

I did not post, but I read the thread and I admit that I was about to reply sarcastically to those who maintained that it could be suicide. But if you mention Occam's Razor, you should also admit that it is MUCH simpler to assume homicide in a case so strange as this: it does happen that a hanging occasionally results in decapitation, but only once in a thousand (maybe more) of these events does a consistent flap of skin get stuck in the noose so tightly as to keep the head attached to the rope...

Quite the opposite - it is much simpler to assume suicide than homicide and Occam's razor applies. Regarding decapitation occurring "once in a thousand" - please present any data you have to support this claim.

Another poster wrote a very plausible description of the chain of events that may have happened, here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Westerner-Mu...t&p=2553949

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