Westerner's Decapitated Head Found Hanging Beneath Rama Viii Bridge

[pimfram]

sorry posted twice.

Edited February 25, 2009 by pimfram

[MALITA]

According to the Italian newspapers (www.corriere.it), Tosadori had stomach cancer.

No!... this newspaper doesn't talk about cancer,they are just telling the same story like in Thailand,a Tumor,but doesn't mean it was Cancer!!

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/09_febbrai...44f02aabc.shtml

Stop adding more details just to say something and respect this poor man who commit suicide by an act of desperation and abandon ...

R.I.P Signore Maurizio Tosadori

anybody speak Italian? so we can translate this article,....

I POSTED BECAUSE I DO!...

[pimfram]

This official report sounds a bit odd.

1. all the so called facts are rolled into one statement. usually you get: BREAKING NEWS: man was Italian...BREAKING NEWS: man was broke. etc

2. there are no questions being asked, no police chief has stood up in public in front of a gang of press to read out the official statement to broadcast on TV.

3. who is KATH??

[nigelandjan]

Guys, a little healthy skepticism is a good thing when stories like this come out. There's no need to call anyone an idiot for questioning the official line, as there is plenty of precedent to inspire doubt.

I'm just glad this is over now so we can put it behind us and let the poor man rest in peace.

If only it was that simple my friend,,,,,,choosing suicide as a way out is not the answer or the end ,,,,,,,unfortunately now he will be confronting all his demons in a different scenario ,,,,,, and then he will be sent down here again on the same level to reset the same test,,,,,,lets hope he passes next time.

[oevna]

Guys, a little healthy skepticism is a good thing when stories like this come out. There's no need to call anyone an idiot for questioning the official line, as there is plenty of precedent to inspire doubt.

I'm just glad this is over now so we can put it behind us and let the poor man rest in peace.

If only it was that simple my friend,,,,,,choosing suicide as a way out is not the answer or the end ,,,,,,,unfortunately now he will be confronting all his demons in a different scenario ,,,,,, and then he will be sent down here again on the same level to reset the same test,,,,,,lets hope he passes next time.

I was only speaking about the discussion on this thread. I don't claim to know what will happen to this man's soul, or to him in his next life, or whatever you want to believe; it's not my place to say. As far as I am concerned, the issue is over.

All I'm saying is, I don't think anybody meant any offense by speculating about what might have happened before the facts were known. Let's show some respect to this man, and to each other.

[hanno]

A number of clues helped police determine the man was an Italian national, including clothing by the Italian brand Puma and a bag bearing the name of an Italian hotel, Jongrak said

Must be half-German then, as Puma is a German brand (but probably made in Vietnam, adding to the mystery).

Anyway, RIP; must have been a pretty troubled soul to go out like that.

[brahmburgers]

One headline for this: "Thai Media Gobble up Police's Half-Baked Speculation"

Now, how can I tie Thaksin in to all this - hmmm? Easy: When Thaksin was PM, every time a big news event came along, he would immediately make a knee-jerk assessment of it - and that would be the news media's headline. More often than not, his quick assessment was flat wrong.

Reading the AP report gives a more measured assessment of the tragedy - more in keeping with how a news outlet should do its job, namely: report the facts. If media must add speculative utterances, do so lower down in the article, and make it very clear that it's speculation - along with specific references.

T.Visa also got caught in the off-base speculation - as the on-going title of this topic illustrates ("....Westerner Murdered,....)

In closing: yes, a seriously troubled guy. Perhaps those of us left standing could be bit more sensitive to others/strangers who are down on their luck. a little conversation and perhaps a 500 baht bill might have made the difference between him being alive - and bizarre death .....or perhaps not.

Edited February 25, 2009 by brahmburgers

[mc2]

A number of clues helped police determine the man was an Italian national, including clothing by the Italian brand Puma and a bag bearing the name of an Italian hotel, Jongrak said

Must be half-German then, as Puma is a German brand (but probably made in Vietnam, adding to the mystery).

Anyway, RIP; must have been a pretty troubled soul to go out like that.

yes, that was a silly way to determine nationality, by the brand of clothing. not just silly, plain out ridiculous.

[mc2]

Guys, a little healthy skepticism is a good thing when stories like this come out. There's no need to call anyone an idiot for questioning the official line, as there is plenty of precedent to inspire doubt.

I'm just glad this is over now so we can put it behind us and let the poor man rest in peace.

If only it was that simple my friend,,,,,,choosing suicide as a way out is not the answer or the end ,,,,,,,unfortunately now he will be confronting all his demons in a different scenario ,,,,,, and then he will be sent down here again on the same level to reset the same test,,,,,,lets hope he passes next time.

I agree, one has to resolve the karmic challengs in ones life in order to evolve,

at this stage it looks to be suicide.

most of us have hit rock bottom at one time in our life or another, and from there , having learned what we need to learn go on to great things.

if the guy had medical and financial issues he should have been back home where he can get help instead of doing what he did in Thailand.

[mc2]

One headline for this: "Thai Media Gobble up Police's Half-Baked Speculation"

Now, how can I tie Thaksin in to all this - hmmm? Easy: When Thaksin was PM, every time a big news event came along, he would immediately make a knee-jerk assessment of it - and that would be the news media's headline. More often than not, his quick assessment was flat wrong.

newspapers and politics is about what sells, what the people want to hear, not what is right. (unfortuantly).

[oevna]

A number of clues helped police determine the man was an Italian national, including clothing by the Italian brand Puma and a bag bearing the name of an Italian hotel, Jongrak said

Must be half-German then, as Puma is a German brand (but probably made in Vietnam, adding to the mystery).

Anyway, RIP; must have been a pretty troubled soul to go out like that.

yes, that was a silly way to determine nationality, by the brand of clothing. not just silly, plain out ridiculous.

One of the articles mentioned that the Puma branded clothing had Italian writing on it, which would indicate that it was probably marketed to Italians (the fact that the Puma brand is not Italian even more strongly supports this, because it implies that Puma gear with Italian writing on it would most likely only be sold in Italy). I think this was the reasoning behind that statement. It's not 100% conclusive, but it narrows down the scope. When you have no other identifying information to go on, that is what you do: narrow the scope of your search.

Say all you want, but they used this "plain out ridiculous" reasoning (among other things) to successfully identify the deceased.

[samuibeachcomber]

Guys, a little healthy skepticism is a good thing when stories like this come out. There's no need to call anyone an idiot for questioning the official line, as there is plenty of precedent to inspire doubt.

I'm just glad this is over now so we can put it behind us and let the poor man rest in peace.

If only it was that simple my friend,,,,,,choosing suicide as a way out is not the answer or the end ,,,,,,,unfortunately now he will be confronting all his demons in a different scenario ,,,,,, and then he will be sent down here again on the same level to reset the same test,,,,,,lets hope he passes next time.

I was only speaking about the discussion on this thread. I don't claim to know what will happen to this man's soul, or to him in his next life, or whatever you want to believe; it's not my place to say. As far as I am concerned, the issue is over.

All I'm saying is, I don't think anybody meant any offense by speculating about what might have happened before the facts were known. Let's show some respect to this man, and to each other.

am with you oevna,its what a forums for,to discuss,have different opinions,argue,but without abuse,to be funny,to be serious etc.

[lazygourmet]

Apparently there is already a copycat looming...

Watch out the videos on Absolut bangkok

[ThaiEye]

It is such a pity that so many foreign journalists also jumped to conclusions and ripped the Thai police apart.

Thailand based reporter Andrew Drummond is one, within two days of this incident he had collaberated with The Sun newspaper in Britain. A newspaper (and news of the world) he has published many stories - see his website.

Sucks. This guy lives in Thailand too.

The Sun Newspaper Version

Andrew Drummond website

Clumsy Cover-up job by the Police

Bangkok Horror; Decapitated supposed 'heartbroken tourist' dangled from showpiece bridge

From Andrew Drummond, Bangkok,

February 23 2008

Police in Thailand are trying to identify a western man made out to look like ‘a heart broken tourist’ whose decapitated head was placed in a plastic bag and left dangling 25 ft below a railing from the city’s showpiece bridge.

Detectives were forced to admit that the death was not self inflicted, despite a clumsy attempt to etch a suicide note on the walkway railing of the gold painted 1.5 mile long Rama VIII suspension bridge in Bangkok at the spot from which the head was suspended.

The note read: ‘Cath, I want but I can not. I came to Bangkok to be you’, and suggested the author may have been a foreign tourist who was jilted in love. But police do not believe the message on the railing.

The jilted English suggests it was written by someone who did not have English as a first language, and was most likely Thai because of the grammatical construction. Police say it could not have been written willingly by the victim.

In Thai a person would literally say ‘I want but can not’. The word ‘have’ is assumed.

Police Colonel Atcharat Heamathanon said: “The case has interested the most senior police here.

“This looks much more like a mafia, or drug related killing. It’s not a suicide. The victim just has been made out to look like a heart-broken tourist”

In a desperate attempt to identify the man Thai police asked newspapers to publish a photograph of the man’s face. Early today millions of Thais woke up to find the decapitated head on the front pages of their newspapers.

The man is Caucasian in his 40’s with close cropped greyish hair. Police are also contacting all western Embassies. The man’s corpse was was found in the river later.

Most foreigners murdered in Thailand are killed because of business dealings which have turned bad. Attacks on tourists are usually opportunistic or prompted by ‘loss of face’.

Last week a 34-yr-old Canadian male model turned property developer was assassinated by two gunmen on the holiday island of Phuket, who pumped seven bullets into him. Francis (Frank) DeGionanni, from Quebec, was suing his property business partner for £400,000 through the Thai courts.

The most famous bridge hanging was that of Roberto Calvi, ‘God’s banker’ whose body was suspended from Blackfriars Bridge in 1982. But five people were acquitted in Rome of his murder.

Link: http://www.matichon.co.th/khaosod/

Edited February 26, 2009 by ThaiEye

[HorseDoctor]

http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/3...-Bridge-suicide

"Deputy police commissioner-general Jongrak Chuthanont announced Wednesday that the Italian tourist suspected to be the one killed by a hanging suicide at the Rama VIII Bridge has been found alive and police have learnt [sic]the real identity of the victim......"

Edited February 26, 2009 by HorseDoctor

[HorseDoctor]

Maybe Drummond read this initial , contradictory to suicide report

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1213...rom-city-bridge

"....Pol Lt-Col Atcharat said he received a call about the head about 2pm.

He went to the scene with Pol Col Chawalit Prasopsin, deputy commander of Metropolitan Police Division 7, a medical specialist from Siriraj Hospital, a team from the Scientific Crime Detection Division and rescue volunteers from Por Tek Tung Foundation. The specialist from Siriraj said the head was probably severed with a sharp object, and belonged to a Western man in his 40s.

[ThaiEye]

Maybe Drummond read this initial , contradictory to suicide report

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1213...rom-city-bridge

"....Pol Lt-Col Atcharat said he received a call about the head about 2pm.

He went to the scene with Pol Col Chawalit Prasopsin, deputy commander of Metropolitan Police Division 7, a medical specialist from Siriraj Hospital, a team from the Scientific Crime Detection Division and rescue volunteers from Por Tek Tung Foundation. The specialist from Siriraj said the head was probably severed with a sharp object, and belonged to a Western man in his 40s.

No excuses. He shouldn't have jumped to conclusions and sell the story to The Sun newpaper. Besides, if you read into this above article and Drummond's other works, you will see he usually contradicts what the Thai police says and calls them liars all the time.

[sriracha john]

probably because more often than not, they prove themselves to be just that....

[gregor200]

This is a google translation from a thai blog

http://www.oknation.net/blog/chakkrish.

Are hanging from the head but no body murder puzzle to create a knot in the 2-day police officer. ก็สืบค้นจนพบเบาะแส Search until it found trace. เจ้าของหัวแล้ว The owner then head. เขาชื่อนายเกียตา จิโอวานี (Jaeta Jiovani) หนุ่มใหญ่วัย ๔๙ ปี ชาวอิตาลี เดินทางเข้ามาประเทศไทย He said the name Kia จิโอ eyes that this (Jaeta Jiovani) young age of 49 years in Italian travel to Thailand. เมื่อวันพุธ(๑๘) ที่ผ่านมา เข้าพักที่โรงแรมเร็กซ์โฮเต็ล ย่านสุขุมวิท และหายตัวไปในช่วงเวลาที่เกิดเหตุ On Wednesday (18) stay at the hotel placed a faster Sukhumvit hotel district and invisible to the time of occurrence. สันนิษฐานครั้งหลังสุด Presumably last. หลังชันสูตรศพ After autopsy. และพบร่างของเขาที่ลอยน้ำขึ้นมาในวันถัดมาว่า จิโอวานี ฆ่าตัวตาย And his body found floating in the water later that day that this จิโอ suicide.

พล.ต.อ.จงรัก จุฑานนท์ รอง ผบ.ตร. ซึ่งเปิดเผยเรื่องนี้ กล่าวว่า จากการรวบรวมพยานหลักฐาน Pl.t.a. faithful secondary ผบ.ตร. revealing จุฑา joy it said the evidence collected. และจากการยืนยันของแพทย์โรงพยาบาลศิริราช And confirmation from the medical Siriraj Hospital. ที่ได้ตรวจพิสูจน์จากส่วนศีรษะและร่างกายของผู้ตายแล้ว Proved to be the head and body parts from the dead. มีความเห็นว่าเป็นบุคคลเดียวกัน Is seen as the same person. และเป็นการฆ่าตัวตาย And suicide. โดยแผลที่คอขาดเป็นขอบไม่เรียบและถลอก The lack of collagen at the wound edges are uneven and bruised. รอบแนวบาดแผลรอบคอด้านหลังสูงกว่าด้านหน้า Wound around the belt around the neck back over front. ลักษณะเป็นแนวรอยจากการถูกแขวนคอ A systematic manner has been dented by hanging. ไม่ได้ถูกตัดคอด้วยของมีคม Do not cut your throat with a knife. เพราะหากถูกของแข็งมีคม If the solids are sharp. แผลจะต้องเป็นขอบเรียบ The wound edges must be smooth. รวมทั้งตามร่างกายไม่พบบาดแผลถูกทำร้ายอื่น นอกจากนั้น การตรวจสอบการตกกระจายของเลือดบนสะพานพระราม ๘ พบว่าเป็นเลือดที่พุ่งมาจากหลอดเลือดแดงใหญ่ที่คอ As well as the body was not found another stab wound was also checking out the distribution of blood on the Rama 8 Bridge, found that a blood streaming from a neck artery.

"..หลักฐานทางการแพทย์ที่ปรากฎน่าจะเป็นการฆ่าตัวตาย ".. The medical evidence appears to be a suicide. ไม่ใช่อาชญากรข้ามชาติ Not multinational criminals. เพราะที่ผ่านมาขีดความสามารถของคนร้ายข้ามชาติในเรื่องอาชญากรรมในประเทศไทยยังไม่รุนแรงถึงขนาดนี้" Because the ability of transnational criminal in serious crime in Thailand is not this size. "

จิโอวานี ตายแล้ว คนไทยชอบสร้างตำนาน สะพานนนทบุรี ยังเป็นสะพานนวลฉวีได้ This จิโอ dead people like legendary build bridges Nontaburi ivory hue is also a bridge. เมื่อหมออธิปจับนวลฉวีไปถ่วงน้ำ When doctor king touch ivory hue to counteract water. อีกไม่นานสะพานพระราม ๘ คงถูกเรียกขาน Rama 8 Bridge soon be continuing designate. สะพานจิโอวานี This bridge จิโอ.

[sriracha john]

This is a google translation from a thai blog

http://www.oknation.net/blog/chakkrish.

Are hanging from the head but no body murder puzzle to create a knot in the 2-day police officer. Search until it found trace. The owner then head. (Jaeta Jiovani) He said the name Kia eyes that this (Jaeta Jiovani) young age of 49 years in Italian travel to Thailand. On Wednesday (18) stay at the hotel placed a faster Sukhumvit hotel district and invisible to the time of occurrence. Presumably last. After autopsy. And his body found floating in the water later that day that this suicide.

Pl.t.a. faithful secondary revealing joy it said the evidence collected. And confirmation from the medical Siriraj Hospital. Proved to be the head and body parts from the dead. Is seen as the same person. And suicide. The lack of collagen at the wound edges are uneven and bruised. Wound around the belt around the neck back over front. A systematic manner has been dented by hanging. Do not cut your throat with a knife. If the solids are sharp. The wound edges must be smooth. As well as the body was not found another stab wound was also checking out the distribution of blood on the Rama 8 Bridge, found that a blood streaming from a neck artery.

".. The medical evidence appears to be a suicide. Not multinational criminals. " Because the ability of transnational criminal in serious crime in Thailand is not this size. "

This dead people like legendary build bridges Nontaburi ivory hue is also a bridge. When doctor king touch ivory hue to counteract water. Rama 8 Bridge soon be continuing designate. This bridge.

[Slip]

Lol- Google Thai to English translation strikes again.

Complete goobledygook!

[JosephGavon]

According to the Italian newspapers (www.corriere.it), Tosadori had stomach cancer.

No!... this newspaper doesn't talk about cancer,they are just telling the same story like in Thailand,a Tumor,but doesn't mean it was Cancer!!

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/09_febbrai...44f02aabc.shtml

Stop adding more details just to say something and respect this poor man who commit suicide by an act of desperation and abandon ...

R.I.P Signore Maurizio Tosadori

Alright, I have to admit that the difference between tumor and cancer escaped me, until I looked it up (just a minute ago). Anyway, all the rest is true. I shall not share Maurizio's story with you, but I can definitely tell you that he had MANY a reason to commit suicide, and that he had already planned on doing so for a long time.

[chuang]

Could it be that someone put a rope round his neck and threw him down the bridge....

[ThaiEye]

Could it be that someone put a rope round his neck and threw him down the bridge....

At 2 o'clock in the afternoon on a busy Bangkok bridge?

[neverdie]

According to the Italian newspapers (www.corriere.it), Tosadori had stomach cancer.

No!... this newspaper doesn't talk about cancer,they are just telling the same story like in Thailand,a Tumor,but doesn't mean it was Cancer!!

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/09_febbrai...44f02aabc.shtml

Stop adding more details just to say something and respect this poor man who commit suicide by an act of desperation and abandon ...

R.I.P Signore Maurizio Tosadori

Alright, I have to admit that the difference between tumor and cancer escaped me, until I looked it up (just a minute ago). Anyway, all the rest is true. I shall not share Maurizio's story with you, but I can definitely tell you that he had MANY a reason to commit suicide, and that he had already planned on doing so for a long time.

Ohh you can, can you? You knew him personally, did you?

You know what, its totally up to him, but if in fact he did commit suicide, it would of been a bit nicer if he had thought of the other human beings around & not done it in such a messy and public way. I wonder if he was an inconsiderate person in life, because he certainly was in death.

Naturally, if he was pushed, murdered or whatever, then my comments wouldnt apply.

Edited February 26, 2009 by neverdie

[kurnell]

official doctors and investigators??

That's a laugh.

Sorry, of course, you are probably much more intelligent and qualified to judge what happened. Hey, why don't you present yourself to the police and Siriraj hospital? I am sure they would feel privileged for you to help them find out exactly what happened.

Is that sarcasm. It's very funny if it is I must say. Creative and clever too. I bet you are the life of the party eh? Cracing jokes all the time. A real card. Wow, I can hardly see the screen for tears!

[Alwaysright]

This is a google translation from a thai blog

http://www.oknation.net/blog/chakkrish.

Are hanging from the head but no body murder puzzle to create a knot in the 2-day police officer. Search until it found trace. The owner then head. (Jaeta Jiovani) He said the name Kia eyes that this (Jaeta Jiovani) young age of 49 years in Italian travel to Thailand. On Wednesday (18) stay at the hotel placed a faster Sukhumvit hotel district and invisible to the time of occurrence. Presumably last. After autopsy. And his body found floating in the water later that day that this suicide.

Pl.t.a. faithful secondary revealing joy it said the evidence collected. And confirmation from the medical Siriraj Hospital. Proved to be the head and body parts from the dead. Is seen as the same person. And suicide. The lack of collagen at the wound edges are uneven and bruised. Wound around the belt around the neck back over front. A systematic manner has been dented by hanging. Do not cut your throat with a knife. If the solids are sharp. The wound edges must be smooth. As well as the body was not found another stab wound was also checking out the distribution of blood on the Rama 8 Bridge, found that a blood streaming from a neck artery.

".. The medical evidence appears to be a suicide. Not multinational criminals. " Because the ability of transnational criminal in serious crime in Thailand is not this size. "

This dead people like legendary build bridges Nontaburi ivory hue is also a bridge. When doctor king touch ivory hue to counteract water. Rama 8 Bridge soon be continuing designate. This bridge.

Well he went out with a splash

[tropo]

*deleted*

Edited February 26, 2009 by tropo

[sassienie]

UPDATE:

MY WIFE JUST INFORMED ME THAT IT WAS ANNOUCED ON THAI TV NEWS, THE GUY RAN OUT OF MONEY AND COULD NO LONGER AFFORD TO LIVE IN THAILAND.

HE BECAME DEPRESSED AND HUNG HIMSELF.

SO NOW YOU CAN FORM YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS

[neverdie]

^thanks sassy, but you didnt need to yell that, its already been mentioned further up the thread