Westerner's Decapitated Head Found Hanging Beneath Rama Viii Bridge

[neverdie]

To all farang, I think this is a very serious warning..be careful what you do and say here...this is not like back home. Things are perceived differently and locals can get very hostile, jealous,resentful....what have you..I have a close friend who works as a journalist, they were talking to other journalists, it seems that some locals feel it is better to kill a farang, to silence the problem forever, rather then have a fight or dispute and the local maybe being involved with the police...to some people..life is meaningless, and even more so if you have no family or no one can truely understand you are missed and thought of by people in other countries. Be mindfull of your actions...dont say things that could create an outcome like this.....

Ohhh scarey! Thanks for the warning, cant wait to read your second post

[Journalist]

I'm just impressed that there's so many people on this topic boasting that their streetwise approach has led them to avoid being decapitated in Thailand.

Don't lose your heads boys !

[mc2]

farangs are in the news for all the wrong reasons lately.

or maybe its cos farangs that end up in thailand are mostly troublemaking weirdos

I've been here 10 years. Never had a problem . Never created a problem. I am no weirdo. And I strongly believe that the kind of statement you make is denigrating and that you are an idiot for making it .... You'd rather not waste your time in typing this kind of stupid post.....

Sure. I should NOT have said "mostly". OK. But Thailand does attract a significant proportion of such characters. It would be hard for anyone to deny this, just look at WEIRD news reports that go on in this country and involve farangs, and thats just scraping the tip.

This apparent suicide (I believe it to be a suicide at this stage) is yet another example of farangs with problems that come and dump it in Thailand.

flame away

Edited February 24, 2009 by mc2

[imaneggspurt]

To all farang, I think this is a very serious warning..be careful what you do and say here...this is not like back home. Things are perceived differently and locals can get very hostile, jealous,resentful....what have you..I have a close friend who works as a journalist, they were talking to other journalists, it seems that some locals feel it is better to kill a farang, to silence the problem forever, rather then have a fight or dispute and the local maybe being involved with the police...to some people..life is meaningless, and even more so if you have no family or no one can truely understand you are missed and thought of by people in other countries. Be mindfull of your actions...dont say things that could create an outcome like this.....

Great advice, and id add a lot of thais are capable of murder and dont give the consequenses of being caught a thought, which makes them very dangerous,.

[cooperspale]

Brilliant deduction by Pol Col Chavalit Prasobsilp, that this is apparently not a suicide.

Sherlock Holmes, eat your heart out.

Who ever heard of someone committing suicide by cutting their head off, putting their head into a bag and hanging it from a bridge?

Just out of curiosity, was the message written on the bridge in Thai or some other language?

He did say "apparently", so of course he isn't sure.

I'll bet it was a suicide. Was the head hanging neck down or neck up inside the plactic bag? The note left on the bridge points to suicide.

If you look at the rope hanging from the bridge you can estimate its length (in comparison to the height of the people standing on the bridge) at about 25 ft. It also appears to be thin rope. Jumping off the bridge with that tied around your neck would easily cause a decapitation - like a knife through butter.

The body will probably be recovered somewhere down the river.

What, and the victim conveniently wrapped his head in a bag before he jumped?

Perhaps he didn't want to frighten the children.

A predictable response, ignoring all the other factors which lead to a possible suicide. We haven't seen a close up of the plactic bag so it's impossible to determine how his head was wrapped and which position it was in, but is it difficult to put a plactic bag over your head and then slide on a rope before you jump? Perhpas he wanted to induce cerebral hypoxia before he jumped. He may have realised that decapitation was a certainty from that height and wanted to keep it clean. Who knows what a suicidal person is thinking.

From what we know, I don't believe we can rule out suicide.

If it was suicide and the rope did somehow manage to severe the head from the body then why did'nt the head fall into the river as well? Surely all that would be left would be dangling piece of blood stained rope and the dyslexic suicide note left on the bridge..that would have really left the boys in brown scratching their heads......the head must surely be hanging from some sort of fish hook attached to the rope..............however i guess we still cant rule out suicide because there is a chance that the guy did actually commit suicide and a third party took it upon him/herself to stage the ellaborate death by hanging/decapitation........will be interested to see how this one turns out.......if they do publish photos of the head then it wouldnt surprise me if someone recognizes him from FACEBOOK!

[apetley]

farangs are in the news for all the wrong reasons lately.

or maybe its cos farangs that end up in thailand are mostly troublemaking weirdos

I've been here 10 years. Never had a problem . Never created a problem. I am no weirdo. And I strongly believe that the kind of statement you make is denigrating and that you are an idiot for making it .... You'd rather not waste your time in typing this kind of stupid post.....

Good reply. Mc2 seems to think that everyone is as stupid as he is.

Yep, everyone's got a right to be stupid but he does seem to abuse the privilege.

[imaneggspurt]

Decapitation is the norm in cases like this. Nothing suspicious about it either. People that commit suicide in this manner are not acting rational, so it is to be expected that the circumstances of death will reflect that mental state. I'd wager that 9 out of 10 MEs upon seeing the info as presented would approach it as a suicide.

Me too, there is/was a reason that when hung from the gallows the drop was only a few feet, any further and the body WILL seperate from the head,

[mc2]

Ignoring the flamers

To all farang, I think this is a very serious warning..be careful what you do and say here...this is not like back home. Things are perceived differently and locals can get very hostile, jealous,resentful....what have you..I have a close friend who works as a journalist, they were talking to other journalists, it seems that some locals feel it is better to kill a farang, to silence the problem forever, rather then have a fight or dispute and the local maybe being involved with the police...to some people..life is meaningless, and even more so if you have no family or no one can truely understand you are missed and thought of by people in other countries. Be mindfull of your actions...dont say things that could create an outcome like this.....

Its a fair warning. We had a news case of a property developer killed in Puket , presumably for pissing off some Thai.

Whats we can get away with in our culture doesnt work over here.

At the end of the day its all about common sense .

[cooperspale]

Decapitation is the norm in cases like this. Nothing suspicious about it either. People that commit suicide in this manner are not acting rational, so it is to be expected that the circumstances of death will reflect that mental state. I'd wager that 9 out of 10 MEs upon seeing the info as presented would approach it as a suicide.

Me too, there is/was a reason that when hung from the gallows the drop was only a few feet, any further and the body WILL seperate from the head,

I still need someone to explain how the head stayed attached to the rope.....

[cooperspale]

Decapitation is the norm in cases like this. Nothing suspicious about it either. People that commit suicide in this manner are not acting rational, so it is to be expected that the circumstances of death will reflect that mental state. I'd wager that 9 out of 10 MEs upon seeing the info as presented would approach it as a suicide.

Me too, there is/was a reason that when hung from the gallows the drop was only a few feet, any further and the body WILL seperate from the head,

I still need someone to explain how the head stayed attached to the rope.....

are we leaning towards foul play yet?

[Thaiblue]

plus how many farangs own tippex.

The tippex message points towards pre-meditated suicide. Just because it doesn't read well, only means English was his second language. I think most farangs who live in Thailand will have sellotape, a stapler. a hole punch and tippex.

Sellotape. Check.

Stapler.Check.

Hole Punch.Check.

Tippex. Check.

Right, I'm going to top myself.

After my extensive CSI, Columbo, Poirot and Miss Marple training i would also have to come to the conclusion that it was a home made kite accident gone badly wrong.

[noungning]

Decapitation is the norm in cases like this. Nothing suspicious about it either. People that commit suicide in this manner are not acting rational, so it is to be expected that the circumstances of death will reflect that mental state. I'd wager that 9 out of 10 MEs upon seeing the info as presented would approach it as a suicide.

Me too, there is/was a reason that when hung from the gallows the drop was only a few feet, any further and the body WILL seperate from the head,

I still need someone to explain how the head stayed attached to the rope.....

that's what i'm questioning... it looks like his head isn't in the bag... isn't tied to the rope either... but just "stuck" or "hooked" to something...

but whatever the case, RIP. it seems so hectic day by day there in what once used to be "ok".

[imaneggspurt]

plus how many farangs own tippex.

The tippex message points towards pre-meditated suicide. Just because it doesn't read well, only means English was his second language. I think most farangs who live in Thailand will have sellotape, a stapler. a hole punch and tippex.

Sellotape. Check.

Stapler.Check.

Hole Punch.Check.

Tippex. Check.

Right, I'm going to top myself.

After my extensive CSI, Columbo, Poirot and Miss Marple training i would also have to come to the conclusion that it was a home made kite accident gone badly wrong.

Yes, whilst carrying a samurai sword he tripped and sliced his head off in one foul swoop,whilst looking for something in a plastic bag !

[syd barrett]

I still need someone to explain how the head stayed attached to the rope.....

The Nylon rope became attached to a 'flap of skin' on the back of the neck. A freak incident, but it can happen. Perhaps 95% of the time the head would not remain.

[samuibeachcomber]

plus how many farangs own tippex.

The tippex message points towards pre-meditated suicide. Just because it doesn't read well, only means English was his second language. I think most farangs who live in Thailand will have sellotape, a stapler. a hole punch and tippex.

Sellotape. Check.

Stapler.Check.

Hole Punch.Check.

Tippex. Check.

Right, I'm going to top myself.

I must just not fit the profile of most farangs in Thailand. Okay I'm not there right now but when I am there I do not own nor possess sellotape, stapler, hole punch or tippex. In fact even in the office here it is a struggle to locate correction fluid, there is no typewriter and if someone is hand writing something (a rare occurrence) and makes a cock up they either cross it out and correct or rewrite the whole thing. There probably is some somewhere but I'd have to ask the secretary where it would be found. I guess if the guy owned or ran a business he would be more likely to have access to such office supplies.

Surely a hand written note sellotaped to the handrail would have been easier particularly if it was pre-meditated suicide - which it is looking more the likely verdict.

Dam_n, just realised I've got no sellotape. Oh well I guess suicide just ain't for me.

tippex,condoms are essential requirements for any farang in thailand and can be purchased at 711 am sure.

[pimfram]

Decapitation is the norm in cases like this. Nothing suspicious about it either. People that commit suicide in this manner are not acting rational, so it is to be expected that the circumstances of death will reflect that mental state. I'd wager that 9 out of 10 MEs upon seeing the info as presented would approach it as a suicide.

Me too, there is/was a reason that when hung from the gallows the drop was only a few feet, any further and the body WILL seperate from the head,

I still need someone to explain how the head stayed attached to the rope.....

The more the rope tightens the more it grips, the skin tears off irregularly leaving some in the noose, the head is heavy but the skin is elastic and can take the weight, maybe it would have fallen off after some time, but it was discovered in time.

why would a dyslexic murderer go to such trouble and take such a risk?

if it was a gangster, why not have him shot instead?

or pushed off the bridge without a note, bag or a rope even?

i think its either a sick murderer or a suicide

if it was suicide, where is this Kath he wrote about?

and when will she phone the police?

Edited February 24, 2009 by pimfram

[samuibeachcomber]

hopefully the police will be able to put us all out of our misery and declare suicide or murder,then case closed,topic closed.but then again if murder,who dunnit?time for another thread?

[IMA_FARANG]

Nonsense.

1. If he had hung himself then the body would be underneath. As far as I'm aware, it's a disembodied head.

2. The note stinks of Thai grammar (like "My fiend me")

my money's on foul play(russian mafia)made to look like suicide.If he'd been heart broken from his teerak why not just take pills and booze,why go to all that trouble.

It is entirely possible that it was an attempted suicide. I read a book by the last official hangman employed by the British Government. He speaks of how it is regarded as very bad form to drop the body that is hung too far, as it is easy enough to sever the head if the drop distance is too great. He had to take into calculation the bone structure, body wieght, and the drop distance so as to not sever the head. It is certainly possible that whoever's head it was simply overjudged the length of the rope, and the amount of stress on his neck (if he even really cared).

I don't say this it what happened, I just say it is a possibility. I imagine the BIB will consider the point.

Now doesn't that just spoil your breakfast or lunch (as applicable).

[GungaDin]

48+ hours and no ID.

Not surprising I guess as there is no bonus involved for ther best police force money can buy.

Very sad for his friends and family, if he has any.

[patklang]

farangs are in the news for all the wrong reasons lately.

or maybe its cos farangs that end up in thailand are mostly troublemaking weirdos

I've been here 10 years. Never had a problem . Never created a problem. I am no weirdo. And I strongly believe that the kind of statement you make is denigrating and that you are an idiot for making it .... You'd rather not waste your time in typing this kind of stupid post.....

Sure. I should NOT have said "mostly". OK. But Thailand does attract a significant proportion of such characters. It would be hard for anyone to deny this, just look at WEIRD news reports that go on in this country and involve farangs, and thats just scraping the tip.

This apparent suicide (I believe it to be a suicide at this stage) is yet another example of farangs with problems that come and dump it in Thailand.

flame away

OHH SO ITS NOT MOSTLY NOW,JUST SIGNIFICANT PROPORTION.

You live in Thailand,you see all these significant proportions or do you sit by the pc and read about it.I have many friends and the significant proportion/mostly,are all decent,upstanding people who have all retired early and spend many millions of baht in Thaialnd

To be honest mate,you dont know what you are talking about so go and crawl back in your hole.

[Chris Bussell]

No shortage of violent deaths of Westerners (and locals) in the Land of Shootings, Suicides & Stabbings. And no sign of a let-up in either Thailand being one of the most dangerous countries to visit or having one of the highest murder rates in the world. And paradoxically no sign that the millions that come here every year know how dangerous this country really can be.

Yeah, I feel much safer in america

No stabbings or gun crime in the UK? AND nobody is cheating and steeling here? Thailand is not the problem.

[syd barrett]

hopefully the police will be able to put us all out of our misery and declare suicide or murder,then case closed,topic closed.but then again if murder,who dunnit?time for another thread?

The results of an autopsy later today will be able to confirm if the head was ripped from the body by hanging or cut with a sharp instrument.

Plus a positive identification of this man will shed some light on the whole story.

But it sounds to me like another jilted john. My guess is he is Greek by his clothing and swarthy complexion.

[meelousee]

I wonder which web site drew this guy in, Thai Love Lines.com, Plenty of Fish.com or meet Thai ladies.com?

Come to the land of lies get cheated out of all your money made to look like the fool and then find the love of your life is really just a poor girl working to support her kids and drunk husband.

This embarrassment is too much for some and their way out? 22nd floor condo that is in your so called girlfriend/wifes name? Handful of pills? The end of a rope?

This reminds me of a Pattaya resident that was found behind Dynasty hotel, hands bound, plastic bag on his head and a bullet in the head. Initial reports was suicide.

After 17 years here I am surprised at NOTHING

RIP who ever you were.

[mc2]

farangs are in the news for all the wrong reasons lately.

or maybe its cos farangs that end up in thailand are mostly troublemaking weirdos

I've been here 10 years. Never had a problem . Never created a problem. I am no weirdo. And I strongly believe that the kind of statement you make is denigrating and that you are an idiot for making it .... You'd rather not waste your time in typing this kind of stupid post.....

Sure. I should NOT have said "mostly". OK. But Thailand does attract a significant proportion of such characters. It would be hard for anyone to deny this, just look at WEIRD news reports that go on in this country and involve farangs, and thats just scraping the tip.

This apparent suicide (I believe it to be a suicide at this stage) is yet another example of farangs with problems that come and dump it in Thailand.

flame away

OHH SO ITS NOT MOSTLY NOW,JUST SIGNIFICANT PROPORTION.

You live in Thailand,you see all these significant proportions or do you sit by the pc and read about it.I have many friends and the significant proportion/mostly,are all decent,upstanding people who have all retired early and spend many millions of baht in Thaialnd

To be honest mate,you dont know what you are talking about so go and crawl back in your hole.

aren't you are the guy that verbally abused a poor (impoverished) mother on a bicycle because she didnt strap her baby according to your version of safety, drove off then didnt offer her a lift ?

a prime example of what i was talking about.

but yes, Thailand does attract different groups . im sure your buddies are of the decent upstanding type and thats fantastic.

[ThaiEye]

Of course it was suicide...... can someone change the title of this thread from murder.

Many similar incidents of decapitation from suicide hanging, see:

http://www.google.co.th/search?q=decapitat...;hl=th&sa=2

Since the police have originally painted the word 'murder' on the incident, this will go down permanently on the statistics for murders in Thailand. Once a charge of murder has been filed in Thailand it is recorded on the national stats. Ask any policeman/lawyer you know and he will tell you that the Thai police will fill file an original charge of murder against anyone who runs anyone over in the road. A couple of days later the murder charge is dropped but the murder statitistic is recorded.

[sabaijai]

Topic closed till further news emerges.

[george]

Westerner whose head found hanging from Rama VIII Bridge believed to be Italian

BANGKOK: -- Police said Tuesday that the westerner whose head was found hanging from Rama VIII Bridge Sunday was believed to be an Italian.

Police said the headless body, believed to be the same person with the head, was wearing a trouser of an Italian brand.

-- The Nation 2009-02-24

[Guest Reimar]

Immigration police release Tuesday photos of a man they believed was an Italian whose head was hung from Rama VIII Bridge on Sunday. He entered Thailand twice last year and once this year.

The Nation

Here a photo of the Person who might be the victim:

[george]

Headless foreigner 'likely suicide'

BANGKOK: -- Physicians at the Institute of Forensic Medicine of Siriraj Hospital confirmed that a headless body and a severed head of a westerner found hanging below Rama VIII bridge on Sunday are from the same person.

The forensic examination also indicated that the victim may attempt to commit suicide.

Deputy national police chief Jongrak Chutanont, referring to the forensic examination, said it would be likely that the victim committed suicide because the wounds were jagged, and there were no indications that he was decapitated by a sharp object.

As a result, Pol Gen Jongrak dismissed the possibility that the victim was murdered by a foreign crime syndicates.

He said police preliminarily assumed that the victim could be a 49-year-old Italian named Jaeta Jiovani who travelled to Thailand last Wednesday.

Earlier report:

A headless body has been discovered in the Chao Phraya river near the Rama VIII bridge where the head of a male foreigner was found hanging from a rope on Sunday.

Officials inspect the headless body of a foreigner aged 40-45 found floating under the Rama VIII bridge yesterday. It is thought the corpse belongs to a Westerner whose head was found hanging from the bridge on Sunday. CHANAT KATANYUThe body was sent yesterday to Siriraj Hospital for examination to check on a match with the head.Specialists estimated the man had died about 24 hours before the body was found.

Pol Col Pornsak Surasit, commander of the Crime Suppression Police Division 1, said the body had not yet been identified.

He said it was uncertain whether the man was murdered or if he committed suicide.

Pol Col Chawalit Prasopsin, deputy commander of Metropolitan Police Division 7, said specialists at Siriraj Hospital would need time to examine the head thoroughly to determine whether it was severed with a sharp object.

The headless body was found in the Chao Phraya river about 2pm yesterday when police were searching in the area of the Rama VIII bridge for clues about the head.

The body was clad in a white long-sleeved shirt, a pair of black trousers with dots and a pair of sneakers. A box of matches was found on the body.

On Sunday afternoon, the head of a foreigner was found hanging about 5 metres below the railing of the bridge.

A Puma-brand white polyester bag was found attached to the rope used to hang the head from the bridge. There were some Italian words printed on one side of the bag.

A police source said checks had found the bag was not made or sold locally.

The source said the rope was of the type used in mountain climbing.

Police found a message written in English saying, "Cath. I want but I cannot", and, "I came to Bangkok to be you".

Police have sent information and a description of the man to embassies in Bangkok.

They have also distributed photographs of the dead man in Khao San road and Soi Nana, areas popular with foreign tourists, to try to find clues to his identity.

Video footage from surveillance cameras installed on the bridge has also been checked, but no clues have been found so far.

Yesterday morning, officials from the Russian embassy arrived at Bowon Mongkhon police station to check the picture of the man.

They found that the man had some features typical of a Russian and believed he could be a Russian national.

-- Bangkok Post 2009-02-24

[george]

Suicide by decapitation

Bridge victim's head torn off by 'force of gravity'; missing Italian man likely victim

BANGKOK: -- Deputy police commissioner-general Jongrak Chutha-nont announced yesterday that the westerner whose head was found hanging from Rama VIII Bridge on Sunday committed suicide and was believed to be an Italian.

Jongrak said Siriraj Hospital doctors had confirmed that the body discovered near the bridge on Monday belonged to the head. He said the uneven decapitation wound and bruises suggested death by hanging rather than beheading with a sharp object, adding that the man's body showed no signs of assault.

At 11am yesterday, forensic officials along with Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's Disaster Prevention and Mitiga-tion officials went to inspect the scene one more time. They took photographs of the handwriting found on the bridge's railing and descended by rope to take photographs of the blood traces and collect samples.

Blood-spray pattern

It was confirmed that the blood-spray pattern found on cement foundations under the bridge resulted from the action of the arteries when the head was torn from the body by the force of gravity. Siriraj Hospital forensic doctors had told police that this sequence of events was "often typical of a suicide by hanging".

Though medical evidence shows that it was almost certainly a suicide and not a brutal execution by international gangsters, Jongrak urged anyone with evidence that suggested murder to contact the police. The case will be registered as suicide in 30 days if no more evidence to the contrary is put forward, he said.

Italian arrived on Wed

As for the ongoing attempts to identify the victim, Jongrak said he was wearing Italian-made Puma clothing, and the bag found near his head carried the name of an Italian hotel. Checks revealed that 49-year-old Italian Jaeta Jiovani entered Thailand on February 18 and checked in to the Rex Hotel in the Sukhumvit area before going missing at the weekend.

It was reported that Jiovani had been to Thailand seven times. Police also showed reporters pictures taken of Jiovani arriving at the airport.

-- The Nation 2009-02-24