Rumor Has It Once We Get Married, My Thai Girlfriend Can Not Buy Land

[fiddlehead]

Hello, I've lived here for 7 years.

My Thai GF and I have been together for 5 years.

We have a 3 year old son.

We are still not officially married although we now have all the paperwork in order and are ready to tie the knot.

We are also looking at some land with a house (with a Chanote) and hoping to buy.

Two questions:

1/ I have heard that once a Thai woman marries a Farang, she cannot buy land in Thailand. Is there any truth to this?

2/ Can i put the land/house in my son's name (he has Thai passport and US passport)

Thanks in advance for your answers and any advice.

Also, does anyone know a trustworthy lawyer preferrably near Chalong? (i know that's 3 questions, sorry)

[steelepulse]

That was an old law where the wife of a foreigner could only own a small piece of land. She can own all she wants now married to a foreigner.  

Sorry I can't help on parts 2 and 3 of the 1 question

[Forkinhades]

That was an old law where the wife of a foreigner could only own a small piece of land. She can own all she wants now married to a foreigner.

I would like to see the documentation for that. I thought once a thai got married to a fralang they lose quite a lot of their rights, even becoming a shareholder!

[ChangMaiSausage]

I've/we have had no propblems todate?

[yogi]

op,your thai gf can have what ever property she wants.(i dont know about the funds)

but if she watns she can have it,she won't need your signature,passport copy,visa status..........etc END PART 1

your child can have property under his name.................IF IF IF your thai gf wants to,

or else its really tough task if its under your name,as you are not YET barried...oops sorry MARRIED.

this is fact and you can check and confirm it.

yogi

[donx]

Here are the simplified answers:

1. This used to be the case. This law was changed around 1999. A Thai married to a Farang may buy land, but you as the Farang spouse will be required to sign a document stating that all money for the land purchase is hers and hers alone.

2. You can put the land/house in your son's name, but the property will not be able to be sold until your son reaches the legal adult age (18 or 21?) or if a court of law deems such a sale to be in the child's best interest (however that is to be interpreted, I don't know for certain).

I said these are the simplified answers because there are a whole bunch of caveats to these answers. For one thing, when my wife bought land recently, I wasn't asked to sign the document stating that all money for the land purchase was hers because we were never legally married in Thailand and my wife still indicated herself as single on her Thai ID. Additionally, it is possible for land to be in your wife's name and the house to be in your name. This is easier to do if the land is bought first and a house is built on the land later. There are also those Farang that register either a 30 year lease or a lifetime usufruct on the land title. Read through the various past threads in this forum and you will see what I mean.

So basically, yes is the answer to both of your questions.

[fiddlehead]

I appreciate all the answers and am learning a lot here.

Looks like lots of options as we are still officially single.

Please keep the answers coming if anyone knows other/more scenarios that happened to you.

I'm leaning towards my sons name although always have the "what if's"

i feel strange giving up big money and signing a paper saying it never happened. Definitely would go against my better judgment even though i trust my wife to be.

[Gary A]

That was an old law where the wife of a foreigner could only own a small piece of land. She can own all she wants now married to a foreigner.

I would like to see the documentation for that. I thought once a thai got married to a fralang they lose quite a lot of their rights, even becoming a shareholder!

Documentation ?? My Thai wife has purchased four pieces of land since we have been married. I had to sign a document each time saying that I had no financial interest in the land. She can own as much land as she can afford.

[teacup]

Documentation ?? My Thai wife has purchased four pieces of land since we have been married. I had to sign a document each time saying that I had no financial interest in the land. She can own as much land as she can afford.

or rather......She can own as much land as YOU can afford!!!

[simon43]

I notice that there is a distinct lack of responses to the OP's third question....

Simon

[whatawonderfulday]

I notice that there is a distinct lack of responses to the OP's third question....

Simon

You can find them where their close friends the Bankers, Investment consultants, 2nd hand car dealers and estate agents hang-out

[thaihome]

Documentation ?? My Thai wife has purchased four pieces of land since we have been married. I had to sign a document each time saying that I had no financial interest in the land. She can own as much land as she can afford.

or rather......She can own as much land as YOU can afford!!!

Personally that statement is as much as WE can afford.

TH

[Nowhereman60]

One thing to look out for is some banks will not loan money to a Thai women if she is married to a foreigner.

[kurnell]

If you have a kid with your Thai wife, buy a property/piece of land, and your wife croaks, who then owns the property?

[Soutpeel]

One thing to look out for is some banks will not loan money to a Thai women if she is married to a foreigner.

Well thats strange because a few years ago I co-signed on a mortage loan for the GF at time (now the wife) and she didnt have a job an was approved on the back of my salary slips, WP etc etc...I would unnderstand if this application was declined because we were not married, but in fact if was approved.

From banks perspective I would have thought being not married was a bigger risk, than being married..

[Soutpeel]

If you have a kid with your Thai wife, buy a property/piece of land, and your wife croaks, who then owns the property?

The kid or her family and but also believe a farang can "inherit land" in circumstances like these but there are many conditions attached..

[chiangmaibruce]

1/ I have heard that once a Thai woman marries a Farang, she cannot buy land in Thailand. Is there any truth to this?

2/ Can i put the land/house in my son's name (he has Thai passport and US passport)

3/ Does anyone know a trustworthy lawyer preferrably near Chalong? (i know that's 3 questions, sorry)

OK, questions 1 & 2 are asked fairly regularly so there are pre-existing threads you can search for and study. Some threads are better than others, but there is plenty of useful info there already.

This is perhaps a reason they might be 'pinned topics' (mods?)

3/ Whatever region Chalong is in (excuse my ignorance), go to that sub-forum. Most sub-forums have pinned topics along the op of the page on who is the best doctor, lawyer, electrician, etc. Otherwise do a search just in that sub-forum using 'lawyer' as your search term

[Nowhereman60]

One thing to look out for is some banks will not loan money to a Thai women if she is married to a foreigner.

Well thats strange because a few years ago I co-signed on a mortage loan for the GF at time (now the wife) and she didnt have a job an was approved on the back of my salary slips, WP etc etc...I would unnderstand if this application was declined because we were not married, but in fact if was approved.

From banks perspective I would have thought being not married was a bigger risk, than being married..

Government Saving Bank will not lean money to a Thai who is married to a foreigner. I hear other banks also have this policy, but not all.

[Arkady]

As mentioned above amendments to Land Code in 1999 ended the discrimination against Thai women married to foreigners. Now they can buy land as long as the foreign spouse makes the declaration that the money used for the purchase was the spouse's alone and that the land doesn't form part of the conjugal property, sapsin somrot, (that gets divided in the case of a divorce). This provision in the Land Code applies equally in the case of Thais cohabiting with a foreigner but not officially married. I am not sure that all land offices want to bother with the declaration in this case but it is a criminal offence for both the Thai and the foreign partner if the Thai partner buys land without this declaration (never heard of any prosecutions for it though). Subject to Thai inheritance laws, which provide some automatic inheritance rights for immediate family, you can inherit the proceeds of land from a Thai wife. The land is held by the estate which is of Thai nationality until it is sold. If you buy in your wife's name, have her draw up a will leaving the property to your son.

If a minor owns land, you cannot apply for planning permission.

Another privilege that used to be lost by Thai women on marriage to a foreigner was the right to pass on Thai nationality to her offspring. This right was restored by the amendments to the Nationality Act in 1992.

[IraqRon]

You should be so lucky!!! LOL

[bojo]

One thing to look out for is some banks will not loan money to a Thai women if she is married to a foreigner.

Tell me about it!

My Thai wife (I'm British) has recently been refused an 80% mortgage from 2 banks for the purchase of a second hand shophouse.

The bank also had an independent valuation of the property which unusually showed a value 20% above actual agreed sale price. My wife additionally furnished title deeds to millions of baht's worth of property (all paid in full and 6 times the value of the loan applied for) and showed plenty of cleared funds in bank accounts (4 times the value of the loan) and we have both been customers at the banks for over 10 years.

Have proof of previous car loans paid and an income (for the last year) over and above that required to cover the loan and the cash flow coming into my wifes account over the last year on a monthly basis was also a minimum of 3 times that of the salary declared/ needed for the loan. Furnished all employee tax/ salary slips requested. A minimum of 6 months was requested, my wife handed over 1 years worth.

Both loan officers agreed the loans in principle but just 2 days prior to deposit contract expiring (6 weeks after initially contacting bank) we had to press and chase them for an answer, both officers came back with unjustified (typical going round in circle Thai style) reasons for refusal. Loads more but can't be bothered to go into details. I remember being taught at a very young age that you can't argue with a liar.

Although there is (to my knowledge) no definite policy of not loaning to Thai women who have taken there husbands surname, by the porkie pies and nonsense that was given as excuses not to loan I would say that it must be a rule of thumb.

And the names of the banks.............. Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial. I should add that Siam Commercial did offer in the end a token 50% mortgage which is the same as any non certified morgage available worldwide which every Tom, Dick and Harry can get. All banks are just waiting for a default of course!

I still bank with both and enjoy very good service at both, however after years in the Kingdom, nothing has come as a surprise for a while now and I'm just as cynical as ever. Shame really.

Buona fortuna to all mortgage applicants in similar circumstances!

Regards Bojo

[IraqRon]

As mentioned above amendments to Land Code in 1999 ended the discrimination against Thai women married to foreigners. Now they can buy land as long as the foreign spouse makes the declaration that the money used for the purchase was the spouse's alone and that the land doesn't form part of the conjugal property, sapsin somrot, (that gets divided in the case of a divorce). This provision in the Land Code applies equally in the case of Thais cohabiting with a foreigner but not officially married. I am not sure that all land offices want to bother with the declaration in this case but it is a criminal offence for both the Thai and the foreign partner if the Thai partner buys land without this declaration (never heard of any prosecutions for it though). Subject to Thai inheritance laws, which provide some automatic inheritance rights for immediate family, you can inherit the proceeds of land from a Thai wife. The land is held by the estate which is of Thai nationality until it is sold. If you buy in your wife's name, have her draw up a will leaving the property to your son.

If a minor owns land, you cannot apply for planning permission.

Another privilege that used to be lost by Thai women on marriage to a foreigner was the right to pass on Thai nationality to her offspring. This right was restored by the amendments to the Nationality Act in 1992.

Wow, if I read you correctly, then the property that would be considered communal/conjugal upon divorce, WOULD NOT include any that and my wife and I purchased after marriage??? What property then would be considered communal? Many times I have read other posters on here say that they believe that if they and their wife split up, then the house or other property will be split 50-50, are they misguided?

I have never been asked to sigh such a document, I wonder what could be the reasons for that? Any ideas?

[donx]

Wow, if I read you correctly, then the property that would be considered communal/conjugal upon divorce, WOULD NOT include any that and my wife and I purchased after marriage??? What property then would be considered communal? Many times I have read other posters on here say that they believe that if they and their wife split up, then the house or other property will be split 50-50, are they misguided?

I have never been asked to sigh such a document, I wonder what could be the reasons for that? Any ideas?

If you read my post above, you saw that I too was not asked to sign such a document. Perhaps the reason you weren't asked is the same reason I wasn't asked.

The reason I wasn't asked was because my wife still identifies herself as single on her Thai ID card. Why does she do this? I don't know. I think she is/was afraid that she would lose some rights if she did. We were legally married in the US. We had a Buddhist ceremony in Thailand, but the marriage has never been registered with the Thai government. When she was buying some land, I showed up with my wife and kids at the land office ready and willing to sign the document stating I have no financial interest in the land, but I was told that I didn't need to sign because my wife is still considered single.

As far as your question regarding communal property, it is possible to share ownership of a house but not the land the house is on. Also condos can be considered communal property. And because some Farang set up usufructs, leases or Thai limited companies to protect their interest in the land, they may feel that they do have something equivalent to communal propery rights.

[buffaloe]

i do not quite understand.you mean if i get married to my girlfriend she will not be able to buy some land using the bank.

[dee123]

Importantant thing to remember though, Laws are ammended constantly.

[Arkady]

Wow, if I read you correctly, then the property that would be considered communal/conjugal upon divorce, WOULD NOT include any that and my wife and I purchased after marriage??? What property then would be considered communal? Many times I have read other posters on here say that they believe that if they and their wife split up, then the house or other property will be split 50-50, are they misguided?

I have never been asked to sigh such a document, I wonder what could be the reasons for that? Any ideas?

If you read my post above, you saw that I too was not asked to sign such a document. Perhaps the reason you weren't asked is the same reason I wasn't asked.

The reason I wasn't asked was because my wife still identifies herself as single on her Thai ID card. Why does she do this? I don't know. I think she is/was afraid that she would lose some rights if she did. We were legally married in the US. We had a Buddhist ceremony in Thailand, but the marriage has never been registered with the Thai government. When she was buying some land, I showed up with my wife and kids at the land office ready and willing to sign the document stating I have no financial interest in the land, but I was told that I didn't need to sign because my wife is still considered single.

As far as your question regarding communal property, it is possible to share ownership of a house but not the land the house is on. Also condos can be considered communal property. And because some Farang set up usufructs, leases or Thai limited companies to protect their interest in the land, they may feel that they do have something equivalent to communal propery rights.

Any assets that are not specifically land that are acquired after marriage can be considered conjugal property, including shares in companies that own land. Be careful of leases though, as they may not legally survive a change of leasor or leasee.

Interesting that the Lands Office didn't want you to make the declaration. Perhaps they didn't know the law or just couldn't be bothered. The wording of the regulation (it is actually a ministerial regulation of 1999, not the Land Code of 1999 as I mistakenly said earlier) is quite clear and covers those legally married or not legally married (cohabiting):

"Regulation: The procedure for the acquisition of land by Thais having spouses being aliens, either by lawful marriage (with proper registration of marriage) or unlawful marriage (without proper registration of marriage) and children of aliens have been changed to be as follows: Any Thai having an alien spouse may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land during marriage under the condition that the spouse must jointly provide a written legal confirmation stating that the entire source of funds for such purchase or gift is solely from the Personal Property (such as defined by Thai laws) of such Thai. Without written confirmation from an alien spouse, the request for such registration must be referred to the Land Department in order to obtain an approval from the Minister. Any alien's minor having Thai nationality may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land if it does not appear after investigation that he/she has done so to avoid the law."

Perhaps then it is not a specifically a criminal offence not to have made the declaration and individual Lands Offices may interpret the regulation to mean that, if a Thai is shown as single on their ID, they don't need to bother with the declaration, as no one could prove they didn't do their duty.

Whether this means that the "undeclared" property acquired after marriage in this way can form part of the conjugal property in the event of a divorce is unclear. A Thai court might not want to order the division of land but the case of a loan note used to acquire the land could be different. On the other hand the parties might be also be considered guilty of using or being a nominee to acquire land on behalf of an alien, if a loan structure is disclosed. In any case, it looks pretty difficult for a foreigner to have any claim over land in the event of a divorce.

Edited March 14, 2009 by Arkady

[BigSnake]

In old days under the old law this was the case; however the law was change in 1997(??) and she can indeed by land in her name. They got some good heads in the government in the mid to late 1990's and they stop treating Thai women married to farangs like second class citizens.

Edited March 14, 2009 by BigSnake