Brit Faces Two Years In Thai Jail For Being 'rude'.

[brahmburgers]

But let's pose a scenario for you.....

Thai Immigration : Hey, we've got a passenger here with a British passport we think is forged.

British Consulate : What makes you think it is forged?

TI :He's a big black man and he doesn't seem to be wearing a shirt in the photograph. The

passport isn't machine readable, the typeface for the bio data is different and it's a bit

scruffy. Can you check the details for us, here's the number. Maybe he's a Nigerian

or something?

BC : Let me check. Um, no trace on that number. Where and when was it issued?

TI :Melbourne 2000.

BC : Ahh, in that case I can't tell from here if it was issued to that person.Our embassies

were issuing passports under a different procedure then and the details were'nt

recorded centrally on the database I have access to. Mind you, that would explain

why it isn't machine readable and the different typeface on the bio data page.

What's his accent like? Is he returning to Britain on the return portion of his ticket?

TI :Maybe better you speak to him....here he is.

BC :Hello Mr.Burrowes. They seem to think your passport is perhaps not yours.

SB :Tell me about it mate! Look, all I want to do is get home. They think it's

duff for some reason but it ain't.

BC :Why was it issued in Melbourne?

SB :I was on a judo tour in Oz and me old one got nicked out of me

bags. This lot think I had no shirt on in me photo but that's

because I was wearing me singlet. I'm a big bastard me and I think

they reckon I'm a bit rough. I'm a judo 2nd Dan etc etc.Anyway I

got me new one in Melbourne.Look I'm a Brit.Anyway you can

check me out, we got our website where I teach back home.

BC : ( Leans over to computer and googles SB ) Oh yes, I got it. You

certainly look the part. Can you pass me back to the Immigration

Officer. Hello, look I'm quite happy he is who he claims to be and that

is his passport.

TI :Well, if you're sure then we'll just let him go.

BC : Good, look any more problems don't hesitate to call. Enjoy your

day.

That is what should have happened. It didn't, the guy lost his temper and now he's facing grief. If it were me I would sue the FCO.

Good dialogue. Unfortunately, few, if any Thai Imm officials (that I've ever met) could handle such a conversation in English. My experiences with Thai Imm officials is roughly as follows:

A. they'll look at you once, for a split second at the initial encounter. After that, they will studiously not look at you for the remainder of the encounter.

B. If you're with an Asian looking person, all questions and concerns will be directly addressed to that other person. Even a question about your name or birthday will be asked of the Asian-looking person.

C. If there's any conversation, each sentence from the official will consist of a maximum 4 words, though two word sentences are more likely.

Overall, regarding Simon's predicament, I score it as follows:

13 demerits for the Thai Imm authorities - for multiple failures, not least mis-reading the passport, despite poring over it for an hour. 3 of those demerits are for vindictiveness toward Simon. In other words, they connived to screw him up as much as possible, when it came to retribution for being yelled at by an uppity black man.

10 demerits for the Brit consular official who didn't do his job - and left a fellow Brit in the lurch.

3 demerits for Simon for not making Herculean efforts to control his anger - though I would have done no better, were I stuck in the same stew.

= = = = = = = = =

You can say what you like about the British consular official who may have been able to rescue the situation before it ended up the way it did but it is still the Thais who are being obtuse by dumping him in the slammer for three weeks and then keeping him in the country for the next few months with the threat of a two year gaol sentence hanging over him.

Yes It would seem that the British consular official should have done more but I don't know their powers or how these things are handled but what i do know is if they are anything like Australian consular officials don't expect any kind of help whatsoever.

Ultimately the Thais have completely mishandled the whole situation and as many people are aware once things spiral out of control in the land of smiles unless you have buckets of money or good connections then you leave yourself at the mercy of the so called Thai justice system.

As for those of you who applaud the sentence I can only wonder what sort of world you inhabit.

Even if this guy was rude and given that he was under remarkable pressure you can hardly blame him for getting a bit shirty the punishment is out of all proportion to the alleged crime.

well put, Tolley.

Edited April 26, 2009 by brahmburgers

[zorro1]

its a no brainer, wear polo at least, both shirt and jeans and perhaps a 1 bht gold ring. smile smile smile

[Jingthing]

gee you guys are pedantic! whats the Thai word for paroled?

There is pedantic and there is idiotic. A person can't be paroled until they are first convicted. This guy may or may not receive any further time, but what really annoys me is the pie in the sky assumption that the justice system is always going to do the reasonable, civilized thing. In a civilized system, there wouldn't even exist the kind of rat hole that Mr. Simon had to stay in already, even BEFORE trial and conviction. Why assume the system will instantly get civilized for him? It may. If it does, I would assume its more about the negative publicity than anything.

For those who think he should serve even one minute more time, I say, there is a special place in hel_l ...

Edited April 26, 2009 by Jingthing

[zorro1]

Mr Jing, you are trying to be rational and your also quite emotional. I will make it very clear for you with out mentioning the word idiot, woops sorry that slipped..

1. Man overstays visa by one day makes it to airport and pays piddly fine

2. another man is in taxi, same situation but the BIB pull up taxi, woops 1 day overstay same man goes to jail (hel_l)

am I going to fast for you?

3. Now what do you think will happen to our unfortunate arrogant mr Simon? get the picture JIng?

[Jingthing]

Mr. Zorro, your example has absolutely no relation to the case we are talking about. BTW, his passport was in actuality fully in order. If you are a model of perfect rationality, I think I will pass ...

I will make it very clear for you with out mentioning the word idiot

I did not call you an idiot. That would be impolite. Read my post again to confirm. Thank you.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Jingthing

[GungaDin]

zorro1

he now has 4 years to learn about patience

Pardon? Did you dream that or do you have a link?

sheesh not about to go through another 100 posts but I believe that was the maximum possible term, apologies should have said a possible 4 years. anyhow we all know there will be a pardon and minimal time but hey even 4 days in a Thai cell would take 4 years off your life span

I might suggest that you buy an English dictionary and a course for reading and comprehension if you are too idle to read the details that have been posted in this topic.

You have just topped off your ignorance by describing Burrowes as "arrogant '!

You have never met the bloke and there are no reports, anywhere, that he is.

Sorry if we are going too fast for you to keep up........

P.S. Jingthing is correct.

[thaiwanderer]

unfortunately or otherwise i very much doubt consular officials are empowered to exercise 'common sense' in the way you suggest (or perhaps at all) and to give undertakings to immigration officials in this situation

Your scepticism is as ill founded as your continued resistance to sweet reason. Of course they are empowered to exercise their judgement and common sense, it's their bloody job!

In the scheme of things any immigration officer would defer to the authority representing the country which issued the document. There is no " undertaking ", there is simply a reassurance that the document and the holder are as represented or they are not.

Quite simple really. The consulate here screwed up big time and have closed ranks in protecting the buffoon responsible. Any claim for damages would be founded upon loss and distress suffered as a consequence of their undoubted negligence in not providing appropriate consular assistance. An ex gratia payment in poor old Burrowes' case is quite likely if pursued competently.

on what basis could the offical give any such reassurance in a 5 minute telephone call?

there may well be an explanation for no trace being found for the passport but are we really to expect the british official to consider an explanation = the explanation and therefore confirm the validity of the passport over the phone because of it - obviously you have superior knowledge on this

the official should perhaps have done more than merely saying 'no trace'

whether this is an actionable negligence is unclear but in any case would only extend at the most until the point which they confirmed the passport was valid, however he had lost his temper long before that and so was the author of his own misfortune from that point forward

as to Gungadin's comments on arrogance - at the very least the reported comments from SB himself about how big a man he is and how they were all getting on fine when he was showing off his kick boxing videos does not smack of a wallflower

[Sabum]

May his shameful overreaction be a lesson to us all.

For the love of god.....

[brahmburgers]

its a no brainer, wear polo at least, both shirt and jeans and perhaps a 1 bht gold ring. smile smile smile

sad but true: In Thai eyes, appearances count for much more than substance.

[Electra]

....but being black is perhaps a starting point from which one can only recover?

[GungaDin]

Blindbumbler,

OK, I give up. Stamina in so many different spheres is a virtue but just occasionally, this thread being a case in point, it simply isn't enough and approximates to hitting one's head repeatedly against a brick wall.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

You win. Stupidity has its own reward and in that regard you must be exceedingly well off.

So true, I've spotted at least 5 horses. Three are blatant.

[Lite Beer]

Inflammatory posts and the answers to them deleted.

[GungaDin]

Zorro,

What you don't realise is words like arrogant etc. could be picked up by some <deleted> journo in London, Bangkok or Phuket

and by not reading the facts as reported here in its entirety could make things very difficult for Burrowes.

They would be just as guility as you for mouthing off because they were too idle to read the full topic.

Think things through before posting rubbish & untrue words describing someone in Burrowes' situation.

I'm sure you meant him no harm.

Edited April 27, 2009 by GungaDin

[david96]

Mr Burrowes had no problem with his passport whe he departed the UK.

He had no problem entering Thailand with his passport and his arrival card

correctly filled in.His passport would have an entry stamp.

Yet when he goes to depart Thailand with his departure card filled in correctly

and attached to his passport he is questioned and detained.

Unless of course hid departure card was not filled in and he made some statement

which made the immigration official check his passport further.

If a passport is not machine readable the information is entered manually into the database.

Did he mention that when he entered Thailand he had no problems?

He appears not to have any back up ID such as a UK drivers licence.

The attitude of the British Consulate is strange given the circumstances.

Remember, all this has been based on a newspaper story, one must wait to see if he appears

in a Thai court, the the true facts may come out, it will be interesting to see if there is a representative

of the Consulate at his court hearing, seeing that the case initially involved a valid British passport.

[PhiPhi]

He's free with a 500 baht fine. See story here:http://phuketwan.com/tourism/briton-fined-500-baht-impolite-11041/

I think the level of fine says enough of what was thought about this case, let's just hope he can get home without further problems. I expect the 'more Thai than Thai's' will be up in arms but they can always make their feelings known to the Thai judiciary......ooops all gone quiet over there!

Good luck Simon

[LawnGnome]

He's free with a 500 baht fine. See story here:http://phuketwan.com/tourism/briton-fined-500-baht-impolite-11041/

I think the level of fine says enough of what was thought about this case, let's just hope he can get home without further problems. I expect the 'more Thai than Thai's' will be up in arms but they can always make their feelings known to the Thai judiciary......ooops all gone quiet over there!

Good luck Simon

Hopefully he learned his lesson.

[JUDAS]

I for one am glad to see the result of this case means no more prison time for Simon. Having read this thread in it's entirety I'm sure those calling for a stiff punishment to "teach him a lesson" will be deeply distressed.

[TheWalkingMan]

Hopefully he learned his lesson.

Yes, let's hope that immigration has learned its lesson and discovered that they were way out of line based on the 500 baht fine for Simon.

[LawnGnome]

I for one am glad to see the result of this case means no more prison time for Simon. Having read this thread in it's entirety I'm sure those calling for a stiff punishment to "teach him a lesson" will be deeply distressed.

Why would anyone have read all 43 pages of this thread...lol.

[PhiPhi]

Hopefully he learned his lesson.

I'm sure he has, Simon has assured me that next time he travels he is going to be a docile mute white man with a passport issued from the UK passport office and a letter of authenticity issued by the local embassy.

[sarcasm] Personally I can't wait to see his face when he is presented with his overstay fine because he could not renew his visa, let's just hope that he get's arrested and 5 years for that offense, he knows the rules and he broke them.[/sarcasm]

[mauGR1]

I'm happy to hear Simon is free.I think now who is responsible for his ordeal should pay him the ticket home at least.In my view such stories depict a bad portrait for los.If there is a lesson to learn for anybody,never be rude with immigration or police officer,even if you are right.

[LawnGnome]

I'm happy to hear Simon is free.I think now who is responsible for his ordeal should pay him the ticket home at least.In my view such stories depict a bad portrait for los.If there is a lesson to learn for anybody,never be rude with immigration or police officer,even if you are right.

He is responsible for his own bad actions and behavior, in response to the Immigration's mistaken passport impressions. Let him buy his own ticket home.

[Jingthing]

I love it. They force him to remain in Thailand to go to trial, and then they REFUSE a visa extension! That is rotten. Also note he had no choice but to plead guilty. All in all, he is lucky with the small fine. No doubt if this had not made the press, he would probably STILL be rotting in jail. Hope he finds a way home and gets his visa sorted, and to those who thinks he deserved any of this, snarl snarl, growl growl. BTW, I also have no doubt he received this bad treatment and special scrutiny because he is BLACK. So there.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[sriracha john]

He's free with a 500 baht fine. See story here:

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/briton-fined-...impolite-11041/

well, at least after 1,075 posts... we can put this aspect of the issue to rest as its established that Mr Burrowes was rude to an immigration official.

Mr Burrowes

opted to plead guilty.

The charge was that he spoke impolitely to an official.

*edit. Just noticed this one also:

Mr Burrowes told Phuketwan outside the court that he had caught the bus back to Phuket from Bangkok for today's hearing.

So he's been in Bangkok for most of the time since he's been released? What's he been doing? Supporting himself? Is this a work permit violation situation in addition to his overstay issue now cropping up? This guy is a one-man crime wave...

Edited April 27, 2009 by sriracha john

[dee123]

......and they all lived happily ever after ......THE END.

[sriracha john]

.........THE END.

of Act I The Rude To An Official Saga.

After a brief intermission for refreshments, Act II The Overstay Saga will begin shortly.

Edited April 27, 2009 by sriracha john

[jeffer]

If nothing else this thread has shown clearly just how many members of Thai Visa have way too much time on their hands. 

and sriracha john... get a life

[Texpat]

On his next trip to Thailand, I'll bet he gets a new passport (properly clothed) and doesn't get mouthy with the immigration officer.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Texpat

[dee123]

.........THE END.

of Act I The Rude To An Official Saga.

After a brief intermission for refreshments, Act II The Overstay Saga will begin shortly.

...RIGHT!!!......I'll get some popcorn

[GungaDin]

He's free with a 500 baht fine. See story here:

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/briton-fined-...impolite-11041/

well, at least after 1,075 posts... we can put this aspect of the issue to rest as its established that Mr Burrowes was rude to an immigration official.

Mr Burrowes

opted to plead guilty.

The charge was that he spoke impolitely to an official.

*edit. Just noticed this one also:

Mr Burrowes told Phuketwan outside the court that he had caught the bus back to Phuket from Bangkok for today's hearing.

So he's been in Bangkok for most of the time since he's been released? What's he been doing? Supporting himself? Is this a work permit violation situation in addition to his overstay issue now cropping up? This guy is a one-man crime wave...

I have the info but I'm damned if I'll post it here.

Let's just say a very kind family have been taking care of him in BKK.

The only good thing about this topic is that it clearly showed up who the morons on Thai Visa.

As I've said before, stick to copying and pasting your news droppings, when you stray off that, you just make a fool of yourself.

I'll include LawnGnome in that lot too.

Good to see that the fine made a fool of the Immi official.

At last, some commonsense prevailed.