Non-immigrant O -> Retirement (within Thailand)

[thairat]

Situation

Present: Non-Immigrant B -expires in 15 days

Desire: Retirement visa (issued within Thailand)

Can I

Get "Non-Immigrant O" within Thailand ASAP,

Top up bank account to required amount

get re-entry visa

leave thailand for 2 months (planning to Leave Thailand for 2 months anyway, personal reasons)

return to Thailand

Apply for, and be granted a retirement visa?

Is there a more painless way?

Thank you.

[Jingthing]

There are different ways to handle this. What I would do if I were in your situation.

1. Top up your account NOW

2. Wait 15 days

3. Go to Penang and get a tourist visa (good for 60 days in Thailand)

4. Get a 30 day extension of the tourist visa in Thailand (would do all this to allow for the required two month bank money seasoning)

5. With over 21 days left on your extension apply for the non-immigrant O and the annual extension based on retirement, most likely you will be able to do both the same day, but depends on the officer

(Be clear Thai immigration in Thailand does not just grant O visas to anyone. You have to show that are qualified for the extension based on retirement to get the O visa IN Thailand. People are calling this the "two step" process.)

You could also show your account book at Penang and explain what you are doing, you might be able to get a single entry O that way. Then you would only need to do the extension application in Thailand (and the 21 day day before expiry rule does not apply if you have an existing O).

Someone else may have a better idea, like I said, there are different possible approaches to this and immigration response is not fully consistent.

OK, I have ANOTHER idea that MAY possibly work.

Top up your account NOW. As soon as the funds are there, go immediately to immigration, show your unseasoned bank book and ask for the O visa now (giving you 90 days), with the idea that you would apply for the retirement extension later after the money is seasoned for two months. I think based on my reading here they MAY go for this, but you are running out of time to try this. Of course if they grant the O, you can also get a reentry permit for it. Bottom line, I do not think they will grant the O if you can't show the money now but they may allow it not to be seasoned so you can wait till later to get the extension (if I am wrong, hopefully someone will correct this).

(BTW, you could have applied for a retirement extension directly from a B visa but with only 15 days left on it, too late to season your bank account.)

[Jingthing]

Another wrinkle, normally if you are on a tourist visa or 30 day stamp, you must have at least 21 days left on your permission to stay to apply for the two step process (first O, then retirement extension). However, you are currently here with a B, and I think that rule may not apply to you. Hey, why did you wait so long? Ha ha.

[Mario2008]

You have to show an income of 65,00 a month OR 800,000 in the bank (Thai) for 2 months prior tom applying OR have a combination of income and money in the bank of 800,000.

If you can show one of these, you can get an extension of stay from immigration, if not you have to leave the country and stay on tourist visas, till you meet the requirements and can get a non-imigrant visa.

[Jingthing]

Mario, I think I have read cases of people doing two step process without seasoning the money. In other words they show the bank account money but it is not seasoned, they are granted an O as the first step, then told to come in later after the money is seasoned to apply for the second step, the retirement extension. The OP is using the bank money only.

Yes, the rule for money seasoning is two months for the first extension, and three months for later extensions, but we are talking about a different scenario here, the TWO STEP process. In this example, the extension second part would still meet the rule.

By this logic if the above is true, the OP might be able to do it this way as well.

-- top up money now

-- quick bus run to the border for 30 day stamp

-- with over 21 days left on the stamp, begin the two step process (get the O)

-- after the money is seasoned apply for the second step (retirement extension)

If I wrong about this option, sorry about that, but I did provide the first option (to get a TR and wait) as suggested by Mario in my initial post. The OP has a case where he may be served by directly visiting immigration and just asking what is possible. In any case, the money should be topped up ASAP.

[Mario2008]

Always worth a try Jingthing, as indeed there are some very nice immigration offices who might be accomodating.

[Jingthing]

By this logic if the above is true, the OP might be able to do it this way as well.

-- top up money now

-- quick bus run to the border for 30 day stamp

-- with over 21 days left on the stamp, begin the two step process (get the O)

-- after the money is seasoned apply for the second step (retirement extension)

I need to correct an error in the above idea. A quick bus run would only give a 15 day stamp but you need at least a 30 day stamp to make the 21 day before permission to stay rule. You could do a quick airport run to get a 30 day stamp, but then you may as well get a tourist visa. Good luck.

[JimGant]

The only wrinkle I see with the 'two step' procedure is this from the OP:

Present: Non-Immigrant B -expires in 15 days

If he actually means his "permission to stay" stamp runs out in 15 days, then, yes, this could be problematic, as '21 days remaining' seems to be enforced for in-country 'change of visa' (Form TM86) or in-country 'application for visa' (Form TM87).

Otherwise, it would seem fairly straightforward for someone going from 'working' to 'retirement' to be able to go the 'two step' procedure, first changing from Non Imm 'B' to Non Imm 'O' via the TM86 route (the TM86 is usually used for a change from Tourist to Non Imm O visa, but there is nothing on the form, which is entitled "Application for Change of Visa," that might preclude changing from a Non Imm B to a Non Imm O).

But, even with only 15 days left on permission of stay, it's 'always worth a try,' as Mario points out.

[InterestedObserver]

Otherwise, it would seem fairly straightforward for someone going from 'working' to 'retirement' to be able to go the 'two step' procedure, first changing from Non Imm 'B' to Non Imm 'O' via the TM86 route (the TM86 is usually used for a change from Tourist to Non Imm O visa, but there is nothing on the form, which is entitled "Application for Change of Visa," that might preclude changing from a Non Imm B to a Non Imm O).

Question. Why is it not possible to get a 1 year extension of stay based on retirement directly from a valid Non-Immigrant "B" visa? In other words, why is it not possible to go directly from 'working' to 'retirement' without having to do a visa conversion? Rule 2.22 only requires that the alien have a temporary visa (Non-Immigrant), it says nothing about 'O' or 'B' etc.

[Lite Beer]

Question. Why is it not possible to get a 1 year extension of stay based on retirement directly from a valid Non-Immigrant "B" visa? In other words, why is it not possible to go directly from 'working' to 'retirement' without having to do a visa conversion? Rule 2.22 only requires that the alien have a temporary visa (Non-Immigrant), it says nothing about 'O' or 'B' etc.

It is. The applicant just applies for another reason.

[Mario2008]

Question. Why is it not possible to get a 1 year extension of stay based on retirement directly from a valid Non-Immigrant "B" visa? In other words, why is it not possible to go directly from 'working' to 'retirement' without having to do a visa conversion? Rule 2.22 only requires that the alien have a temporary visa (Non-Immigrant), it says nothing about 'O' or 'B' etc.

As Lite Beer said, it is. We are just not sure if he qualifies. Remember that the money requirements are higher then for an extension under employment.

[JimGant]

Yes, the suffix of one's Non Imm visa shouldn't matter (although I'm sure in some Immigration officers' reasoning, retirement extensions are only born from Non Imm O visas, as that's all they see). But this is a curious case. The OP is in a situation where he doesn't meet the requirement for a retirement extension (i.e., money not in the bank for 60 days) -- plus his Non Imm B visa and/or permission to stay will run out in 15 days. And if it's 15 days remaining on his permission of stay, then, he's probably up <deleted> creek.

But say he had 21 days (or Immigration bent the rules by 6 days). Why couldn't he go to Immigration with his brand new passbook of deposited 800k and a Form TM86 to change his visa to a Non Imm O. There's nothing on the TM86 that precludes this, at least from how I read it. Now, he wouldn't have to leave Thailand, but instead would get a Non Imm O visa, an associated new 90 day permission of stay stamp, and the requisite time to season his required money. Again, the only buggaboo in this scenario, as I see it, is the lack of 21 days. In fact, it's so simple -- again assuming there were 21 days remaining -- that no way it could work. Sigh.

[Morty]

Otherwise, it would seem fairly straightforward for someone going from 'working' to 'retirement' to be able to go the 'two step' procedure, first changing from Non Imm 'B' to Non Imm 'O' via the TM86 route (the TM86 is usually used for a change from Tourist to Non Imm O visa, but there is nothing on the form, which is entitled "Application for Change of Visa," that might preclude changing from a Non Imm B to a Non Imm O).

Question. Why is it not possible to get a 1 year extension of stay based on retirement directly from a valid Non-Immigrant "B" visa? In other words, why is it not possible to go directly from 'working' to 'retirement' without having to do a visa conversion? Rule 2.22 only requires that the alien have a temporary visa (Non-Immigrant), it says nothing about 'O' or 'B' etc.

It not a problem doing that, it's just about timing. In this case the problem is the 15 days left, to change the visa he needs more then 21 days left on his permission to stay. If you plan it right you could do something like this:

You are planning to resign from your job at the end of may, and you are over 50 years old.

You make an agreement with your employer that you will leave 31. may, you sign the resignment papers stating that your last day of work will be 31. May, and bring this paper with you to immigration, together with all the other paperwork needed for a non-immigrant O visa based on retirement. You should apply for this change of visa with less than 30 days left of your work contract, and more than 21 days left on your permission to stay. If you are qualified, they will give you a 90 day non-immigrant O visa starting from 1. of June,(which is the day you would otherwise have to leave Thailand) for a charge of 2000 baht.

With a 90 day non-immigrant O in your PP, you put 800000 baht in your bank account at the end of june (more than 60 days before your visa expires) and applies for a 1 year extension, and voila! a one year extension would be granted.

All of this without leaving Thailand at all

regarding the resignment papers, they might not be needed, but some immigration offices won't issue retirement visas if you're holding a work permit.

[thairat]

Otherwise, it would seem fairly straightforward for someone going from 'working' to 'retirement' to be able to go the 'two step' procedure, first changing from Non Imm 'B' to Non Imm 'O' via the TM86 route (the TM86 is usually used for a change from Tourist to Non Imm O visa, but there is nothing on the form, which is entitled "Application for Change of Visa," that might preclude changing from a Non Imm B to a Non Imm O).

Question. Why is it not possible to get a 1 year extension of stay based on retirement directly from a valid Non-Immigrant "B" visa? In other words, why is it not possible to go directly from 'working' to 'retirement' without having to do a visa conversion? Rule 2.22 only requires that the alien have a temporary visa (Non-Immigrant), it says nothing about 'O' or 'B' etc.

It not a problem doing that, it's just about timing. In this case the problem is the 15 days left, to change the visa he needs more then 21 days left on his permission to stay. If you plan it right you could do something like this:

You are planning to resign from your job at the end of may, and you are over 50 years old.

You make an agreement with your employer that you will leave 31. may, you sign the resignment papers stating that your last day of work will be 31. May, and bring this paper with you to immigration, together with all the other paperwork needed for a non-immigrant O visa based on retirement. You should apply for this change of visa with less than 30 days left of your work contract, and more than 21 days left on your permission to stay. If you are qualified, they will give you a 90 day non-immigrant O visa starting from 1. of June,(which is the day you would otherwise have to leave Thailand) for a charge of 2000 baht.

With a 90 day non-immigrant O in your PP, you put 800000 baht in your bank account at the end of june (more than 60 days before your visa expires) and applies for a 1 year extension, and voila! a one year extension would be granted.

All of this without leaving Thailand at all

regarding the resignment papers, they might not be needed, but some immigration offices won't issue retirement visas if you're holding a work permit.

Continued Saga

Thanks for the forums support, I managed to depart Thailand without paying any overstay fines.

Topped up bank account for retirement visa in second week in march.

Entered US as a Brit on an I94, with my Brit/Thai son, and his Thai mother.

Want to enter Thailand and get retirement visa, after retirement money has seasoned.

Thai consulate offer 90 day Non-immigrant visas for different catagories, seems like an O is what I need, but on what grounds/catagory?

I understand I can enter Thailand on a 30 day "on demand" tourist visa provided I apply for retirement visa with 21 days from expiry, unfortunately the money wont be completely seasoned within that time.

Return date to Thailand 22 May 2009.

Will I need to buy a ticket showing evidence of departing Thailand in order to get the Thai visa in the US?

[ubonjoe]

You can get a non-o visa to visit family. It can be your son or your wife. You will need a copy of your marriage certificate or childs birth certificate. Also if for marriage a copy of your wifes Thai passport photo page or ID card.

Suggest you use a honorary consulate to get your visa. Using the pull down menu at the top of this page you will find a list of them. Link: http://www.thaiembdc.org/AboutEmb/EmbDirect.aspx

For some of the Thai consulates you will need a translation of the marriage or birth certificate. If you don't have one with you a faxed or scanned copy will do.

You won't need an onward or return ticket if you get a visa.

[thairat]

You can get a non-o visa to visit family. It can be your son or your wife. You will need a copy of your marriage certificate or childs birth certificate. Also if for marriage a copy of your wifes Thai passport photo page or ID card.

Suggest you use a honorary consulate to get your visa. Using the pull down menu at the top of this page you will find a list of them. Link: http://www.thaiembdc.org/AboutEmb/EmbDirect.aspx

For some of the Thai consulates you will need a translation of the marriage or birth certificate. If you don't have one with you a faxed or scanned copy will do.

You won't need an onward or return ticket if you get a visa.

Thanks for your response.

We dont have a marriage certificate, our son is 18 months old.

It seems that a onward or return ticket is not a requirement of an "O" visa, for the purpose of visiting family in Thailand!

Can I use "visiting family" ie my son, as a reason for an "O" visa even though he is with me in the US until we return?

[lopburi3]

Yes.

[ubonjoe]

No problem if you son is with you.

Correct no return ticket is needed with any visa when entering Thailand.

It's to bad you didn't mention your son before because you could of gotten a 60 day extension at immigration here to visit him.

[thairat]

No problem if you son is with you.

Correct no return ticket is needed with any visa when entering Thailand.

It's to bad you didn't mention your son before because you could of gotten a 60 day extension at immigration here to visit him.

My son is Thai/Brit his mother Thai, which of the two choices below is easier/straight forward for an non-immigrant "O" ?

Option 1:

For the purpose of visiting family (Type "O")

Your actual Passport or Travel Document.

(Passport or Travel Document must not expire within 6 months and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).

1 copy of Passport or Travel Document

(The page(s) shows your photo , name , date and place or birth and the expiration date of passport)[/b]

1 application form |Download|

(completed and signed by the applicant.)

2 photos

(Passport photo, 2" x 2", color, front-view, taken within 6 months, and write your name and last name on the back of each photo).

Option 2:

To visit as an immediate family member of a Thai nationality

The documents proving such relationship with the visa application e.g., Birth Certificate and Thai Passport/ Thai I.D. of the parents who are Thai.

Above info from required docs, copied from Thai consulate.

Seems like option 2 requirements arent complete..... option 2 must be additional requirements specific to visiting immediate family member of a Thai nationality, not sure I understand the differentiation.

Can you please explain the nuances of difference relevant to visiting my Thai/Brit son, do I need to send his birth certifiicate? If I dont send the birth certificate will the visa application likely be rejected or will they request more information?

[ubonjoe]

You need the birth certificate to prove the family relationship. The ID card or passport photo page is for a relationship by marriage.

Contact one of the hononrary consulates on the list I gave you a link for earlier as to what they want.

The 2 photos and application form is standard.

The honorary consulates will accept the downloaded application form from the embassy website,

[lopburi3]

I would only send a copy of birth certificate myself.

[thairat]

I would only send a copy of birth certificate myself.

1. GENERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR OBTAINING A VISA:

A. Passport must accompany application and must be valid for at least 6 months from the

date of visa issuance.

B. Passport must have at least one completely empty page for the visa stamp.

C. Two (2) passport sized photos (front view, color or B & W) no older than 6 months from the

date of the application. Four photos for countries other than the U.S.A.

D. Evidence of adequate finance (20,000 Baht/approx. US$480 per person)

E. Fee for each entry (cash, money order or cashier’s check). Personal checks will not be

accepted. Make payable to the “Royal Thai Consulate General”.

F. Self-addressed prepaid envelope for the return of your passport. Do not include dollar

amount of postage with the required visa fees.

2. ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS FOR OBTAINING A VISA:

A. Proof of confirmed onward ticket is required, except for U.S. citizens applying for a Tourist

visa.

B. For citizens other than U.S.A., a copy of permanent residence card (front and back) or

other support (i.e. visa from U.S.A.) is required.

C. A bank statement showing there is at least US $500 in the bank account to obtain a Non-

immigrant “O” visa.

from www.thai-or.com/Visa%20Instructions.pdf

Yikes!!!

Royal Thai Honary Consul in Oregon USA requirements state they need onward ticket and other requirements seemingly absent from Thai Embassy in Los Angeles!

OK enough, can but try and see!

Many thanks

[ubonjoe]

They will not ask for a ticket.

Call or email one of the honorary consulates and they will confirm.

A copy of the birth certificate will suffice.

Every time I have a appliced for a visa at the consulate in Houston they returned everything I sent them even my cover letter requesting a non-o. Also I have never had to show any tickets.

[thairat]

They will not ask for a ticket.

Call or email one of the honorary consulates and they will confirm.

A copy of the birth certificate will suffice.

Every time I have a appliced for a visa at the consulate in Houston they returned everything I sent them even my cover letter requesting a non-o. Also I have never had to show any tickets.

Many thanx Ubon, I'll give them a try!

[JimGant]

Also I have never had to show any tickets

This is a relatively new wrinkle -- and even the honorary consulates are now advertising it as a requirement. But, I haven't seen any reports about how the honoraries are enforcing it.........

We have a Thai friend, naturalized US citizen, who went to the Thai Embassy DC for a tourist visa (her Thai passport had expired). They were almost rude about insisting on the return ticket, plus money in the bank. Absolutely no reason for that -- if she overstayed her entry, she still had a valid Thai ID card -- not like she was a potential illegal immigrant. One-upsmanship syndrome.

And, exit tickets for double/triple entry tourist visas don't make much sense. You request this kind of tourist visa for the flexibility it presents.....not knowing exit dates, thus not having your exit ticket, is part of this flexibility.

I once saw where the NY consulate asked for the entry ticket to Thailand before issuing a tourist visa. Nice they wanted to make sure you weren't wasting your money on a visa in case you weren't positive about using it........

[JimGant]

Royal Thai Honary Consul in Oregon USA requirements state they need onward ticket and other requirements seemingly absent from Thai Embassy in Los Angeles!

Can't seem to bring up the LA Consulate website. But a few weeks back, they too were asking for onward tickets, except for non US citizens. Funny -- except there is nothing funny about the LA Consulate -- the poster who brought this to our attention *was* a US citizen -- but LA still wanted to see his onward ticket. Just in case you were actually a bogus US citizen, I guess........

Thai Embassy DC requests onward tickets from everyone -- US citizen or not. You can never be too sure, I guess..........

[ubonjoe]

Sometimes what you find on consulate/embassy websites are not what they ask for.

That is why it's always best to contact them (email is best) to see exacly what they require.

I just can't understand why they are asking for tickets. Why would you buy a ticket if you don't have a visa yet.

Also you mentioned a Thai with an expired passport. They could of entered with an expired passport with no problem. I wonder if the embassy was asked about this. This has been covered in topics here before. There was even a case where the passport had been expired for a number years and the lady was allowed entry.

[JimGant]

Also you mentioned a Thai with an expired passport. They could of entered with an expired passport with no problem

Expired Thai passport -- and no visa -- might not have played out nicely at the NorthWest checkin counter.

[ubonjoe]

Also you mentioned a Thai with an expired passport. They could of entered with an expired passport with no problem

Expired Thai passport -- and no visa -- might not have played out nicely at the NorthWest checkin counter.

Not according to this info from IATA via Delta website.

/ 23APR09 / 0750 UTC

National Thailand (TH) /Destination Thailand (TH)

Thailand (TH)

Passport required.

- Expired passports issued to nationals of Thailand are

accepted.

Passport Exemptions:

- Nationals of Thailand holding a Certificate of Identity.

VISA NOT REQUIRED.

Additional Information:

- All passports must be in good condition.

CHECK TINEWS/N1 - FORMS I-94, I-94W and ESTA - April 2009

Timaticweb Version 1.3

23 April 2009

Source:

http://www.timaticweb.com/cgi-bin/tim_webs...ubuser=DELTAB2C

[JimGant]

Interesting. But she was interested in staying 6 weeks, so a 30-day stamp in her US passport wasn't an option, as she didn't want the hassle of having to get a one-year extension based on Thai nationality.

If you're saying Immigration would waive her thru with an expired Thai passport, that's also interesting. But without a stamp in her US passport, she would have to get a new Thai passport before she returned to the States. And she wasn't interested in spending time in Bangkok doing that.

(She subsequently did get a Thai passport once back in the States.)