Teaching License

[MattFS218]

To obtain a teaching license...Do I need to provide the ORIGINAL of my University transcript? Diploma? or will a copy be sufficient?

Do they need an original of my Diploma and offical transcript? Or just my one or the other.

is there a list somewhere?

[Ijustwannateach]

I think a copy of the diploma is good enough, but you have to use an original (like, unopened or otherwise stamped and certified and uncopyable) transcript. The transcript has become more important because the diplomas are so easy to fake these days.

Why don't you go looking through the "Teaching in Thailand" subsection of this forum? There's a "Teacher's License" thread buried somewhere in there. Also check out the thread now on the first page called "Red Tape, the Process."

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

Generally an original BUT IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR EMPLOYER SAYS YOU NEED AS IT'S EASIER FOR SOME THAN OTHERS! So I had to give in my original (but not transcripts which SOME schools are asking for), whereas if you worked for the super duper wicked school of excellence they'd probably be able to do it with a good copy of your degree etc.!

Basically mate I can tell you what you need to know (check the link I gave you on the other thread) but it's pretty much academic if your employer isn't willing to basically do it for you. One TL is yours to keep, the other is for your employer. and yes if you change employers generally you/they have to reapply for a TL (or at least their part of it!).

You seem to think it can all be done on your own, it can't!

IJWT,

The transcripts are more for the employer it's not (as far as I know) a requirement from the MoE!

Edited January 18, 2005 by kenkannif

[Ijustwannateach]

^jinx!

[MattFS218]

Generally an original BUT IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR EMPLOYER SAYS YOU NEED AS IT'S EASIER FOR SOME THAN OTHERS! So I had to give in my original (but not transcripts which SOME schools are asking for), whereas if you worked for the super duper wicked school of excellence they'd probably be able to do it with a good copy of your degree etc.!

Basically mate I can tell you what you need to know (check the link I gave you on the other thread) but it's pretty much academic if your employer isn't willing to basically do it for you. One TL is yours to keep, the other is for your employer. and yes if you change employers generally you/they have to reapply for a TL (or at least their part of it!).

You seem to think it can all be done on your own, it can't!

IJWT,

The transcripts are more for the employer it's not (as far as I know) a requirement from the MoE!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your help. I've read the web site and am aware of the general process...I just needed some clarification about the timeline and if copies were acceptable.

matt

[Bunnysgal]

(Assuming already got a job offered) Will there be any chance in getting a Teacher license if we only got college diploma plus CELTA? Or ... they wanna see a degree?

I asked the MOE bout what documents needed to be submit, but they seemed to know ...nothing... bout TL. That's just so weird!

All help appreciated

[kenkannif]

Generally you need a degree, but I know people that have got it with a Diploma and a TEFL, and in some cases just a TEFL!

So again the typical, yes, no and maybe!

Basically your school should know as they'll have to do it really!

[MattFS218]

So I have a 4 year undergraduate degree (?) from a university....So do I have a degree, diploma, and a transcript?

I think I'm having some problems with the cultural differences

I'm assuming a diploma is a 2 year degree?

A degree is a 4 year undergraduate University degree?

And a transcript is a piece of paper with all my classes and grades I recieved in each class.

Is this correct?

matt

I'm american btw.

[kenkannif]

I'm a Brit (so I might be wrong) but yes I think you have a degree. They (bachelors that is) usually take 3 years in the UK and 4 in the States (make of this what you will )

Any American feedback IJWT/PB?

Edited January 19, 2005 by kenkannif

[nokmdk]

I was required to have all original documents for my TL that they just obtained for me, i also had to have the University E-Mail them stating i was there from the start to finish.

I work at one of the good schools but their clout meant nothing to MoE.

Be prepared to have all documents. (original) A person that has gone through life making sure he has obtained these degrees, should have them with him or her at all times anyways. I would not go to another country with copys and ask them if that was good enough. It can be fustrating but the rewards are enough to make me like staying.

[jerry921]

About degree vs. diploma...

I'm an American in the U.S. and haven't gotten to try teaching in Thailand yet, but I'm studying the idea. So I don't know what's required, but I wanted to check my understanding of what's been written here...

To me, you get a Degree on completion of a 4+ year post-secondary program. It may be a B.A., a B.S., a B. Ed., or something else, but its a Bachelor's of Something Degree.

I'd assume that Master's Degrees and Ph D's also count as degrees, but they aren't needed since you only need one degree.

A Diploma is a large folio-sized piece of paper with a gold-colored seal suitable for framing or storing in the attic that they hand you when you attend the graduation ceremony.

So to prove to the MoE that you have a Degree they want to see your original Diploma, which you had best unframe and bring with you to Thailand, correct? I'm having visions of myself in a white shirt and tie traveling all over BKK and trying not to sweat while carrying around a huge folio like a beginning model or art student.

Now the whole concept of actually letting my Diploma out of my sight is not something I've come to terms with yet. I better worry about disreputable employers keeping it hostage, shouldn't I? I can see them wanting to see the original and make their own copy of it, but letting it out of my sight? I have no idea what kind of hassle I'd have to go through to get a replacement from my university, or if its even possible after this many years.

I used to be able to get sealed transcript copies, but there was a price per each, so I'd not want to have to cough one up just for an interview. A job, ok. How many copies should I have ordered up before heading to Thailand?

Would some of the more savvy employers instead of wanting a transcript rather call or email the university for verification? Seems like if that Khao San Road place has people that can forge a diploma they could cook up the transcripts much more easily. When I last saw one it was a bad photocopy of a few pages stuffed into an envelope with a raised-stamp sealing the envelope and a scrawled signature across it.

[ryanb741]

About degree vs. diploma...

I'm an American in the U.S. and haven't gotten to try teaching in Thailand yet, but I'm studying the idea. So I don't know what's required, but I wanted to check my understanding of what's been written here...

To me, you get a Degree on completion of a 4+ year post-secondary program.  It may be a B.A., a B.S., a B. Ed., or something else, but its a Bachelor's of Something Degree.

I'd assume that Master's Degrees and Ph D's also count as degrees, but they aren't needed since you only need one degree.

A Diploma is a large folio-sized piece of paper with a gold-colored seal suitable for framing or storing in the attic that they hand you when you attend the graduation ceremony.

So to prove to the MoE that you have a Degree they want to see your original Diploma, which you had best unframe and bring with you to Thailand, correct? I'm having visions of myself in a white shirt and tie traveling all over BKK and trying not to sweat while carrying around a huge folio like a beginning model or art student.

Now the whole concept of actually letting my Diploma out of my sight is not something I've come to terms with yet. I better worry about disreputable employers keeping it  hostage, shouldn't I? I can see them wanting to see the original and make their own copy of it, but letting it out of my sight? I have no idea what kind of hassle I'd have to go through to get a replacement from my university, or if its even possible after this many years. 

I used to be able to get sealed transcript copies, but there was a price per each, so I'd not want to have to cough one up just for an interview.  A job, ok.  How many copies should I have ordered up before heading to Thailand?

Would some of the more savvy employers instead of wanting a transcript rather call or email the university for verification?  Seems like if that Khao San Road place has people that can forge a diploma they could cook up the transcripts much more easily. When I last saw one it was a bad photocopy of a few pages stuffed into an envelope with a raised-stamp sealing the envelope and a scrawled signature across it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Regarding transcripts - I have no idea what I did with mine. I assume that if I ask the University they can provide another - it has been 6 years since I graduated though

[Bluffer]

Jerry - Ken wasnt meaning the pysical piece of paper that you get at the old award ceremony.

He was meaning the different levels of post school awards that you get leading up to BAs, MAs etc

In the UK you can go to college for 1 year and get a Higher National Certificate in whatever, after 2 years you get a Higher National Diploma and then you can move to a university and transfer credits so after 3 you get a BA.

So does the US have somethng similar to the Certificate and Diploma ( Associate degree?)

[jingjingna]

Matt, photocopies will do just fine in the area that you're located.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm a Brit (so I might be wrong) but yes I think you have a degree. They (bachelors that is) usually take 3 years in the UK and 4 in the States (make of this what you will )

Any American feedback IJWT/PB?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For us Americans, you *do* need both your diploma (that's the sheepskin, i.e., the big embossed certificate that says you got the degree, usually you receive this in a ceremony AFTER a four year (yes, that's right) or longer period of study) *and* the transcript (which is a detailed, course-by-course, grade-by-grade, credit-by-credit official list from the registrar of your college (sometimes must be *directly* from the registrar by mail, case-by-case), also confirming that you have your degree.

The need for the original diploma is not unusual; for example, the Japanese government also requires a look at it to get paperwork started there. I keep mine in a nice binder (with one fold). I wouldn't let anyone here KEEP it, but by all means have it available for them to look and copy.

Wouldn't have thought that would be so confusing, but that's what they are!

"Steven"

[kat]

The issue of letting my degree out of my sight also worries me considerably. I ordered transcripts to be sent by mail exactly 1 month ago and still have not received anything (yes, they were sent). I am really afraid that if I submit my diploma to an institution here I may neve see it again.

Steven, how do you get a working permit and a TL if you don't submit your diplomas to the MOE?

Also, on another related question: will I be hasseled if I go on a visa run after applying for non-imm b with working papers, but without ever going the Labor Ministry because I didn't received my transcripts in the mail?

Thanks for your help.

[Ijustwannateach]

As far as my original degree goes, I think most of the time copies are accepted now at the Ministry- at least, I don't remember being parted from mine for any excessive periods of time in the last few years (in Japan I was, but you can trust the Japanese with paperwork). They *will* want an original transcript on file (either at your school or at the Ministry), however, and that's what's getting more trust these days, as the KSR forgery brigade have become more sophisticated. Harder to forge a whole history with grades and all.

I won't say they can't lose the papers, though, 'cause I've heard of it happening, and knew one school where they lost someone's passport in the process. Good luck.

"Steven"

[jerry921]

Jerry - Ken wasnt meaning the pysical piece of paper that you get at the old award ceremony.

He was meaning the different levels of post school awards that you get leading up to BAs, MAs etc

In the UK you can go to college for 1 year and get a Higher National Certificate in whatever, after 2 years you get a Higher National Diploma and then you can move to a university and transfer credits so after 3 you get a BA.

So does the US have somethng similar to the Certificate and Diploma ( Associate degree?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I've gotten a bit

Thanks Bluffer, I sort of thought there was a different usage for Diploma between British and American English. Always interesting to learn your mother tongue as a second language. In the US one thing is less than 4 years is an Associates Degree (yes its called degree, I guess I lied before), which is typically 2 years. The time to get a certificate is sort of an undefined length, anything from a week on up.

You can transfer credits from an Associates Degree to a university. It took the people who I knew that did that 2-3 years more to get a Bachelors. The variance was due to mismatches between what courses the univ. required for the BA/BS and what they were transferring, and maybe a switch of majors.

Does anybody know what you get (in the US) when you take the course at a beauty school so you can get a license to cut hair? That might be called a diploma rather than a certificate as an attempt to make it sound fancier. I think you need one of those before the govt will license you to work as a beautician.

We also have "Masters Certificates" here. It's what you get for taking a few courses in something when a Bachelors degree is a prerequisite, but the program isn't worth a Masters Degree. I sat through about 200-240 class hours and got one in "Project Management". Got a sheepskin for that too, without the cap and gown nonsense.

[lomatopo]

I am US-based and educated, and plan to teach in Thailand.

I would recommend digitally scanning all these important documents and storing them on CD, your PC and even your website. I have scanned all my diplomas (high school, undergraduate and graduate) along with unofficial transcripts (and baptism record, birth certificate, driver's license, passport w/visa, credit cards, etc.) I also plan to bring my original diplomas along with certification letters from the colleges/universites and unofficial copies of my transcripts.

I think the transcripts (that document which shows which courses you took and what grades you received) might be the most challenging? In theory and "official" transcript is sent directly from the educational institution to the prospective employer without the candidate/graduate touching or viewing it. This could take a few weeks, and most colleges/universities require payment in advance. I think I can do this via email and with a credit card? I recently requested unoffical transcripts, just as back up, and while they are signed and embossed, they still say, "issued to student", rather than "official".

Edited February 25, 2005 by lomatopo

[jerry921]

I am US-based and educated, and plan to teach in Thailand.

I would recommend digitally scanning all these important documents and storing them on CD, your PC and even your website. I have scanned all my diplomas (high school, undergraduate and graduate) along with unofficial transcripts (and baptism record, birth certificate, driver's license, passport w/visa, credit cards, etc.) I also plan to bring my original diplomas along with certification letters from the colleges/universites and unofficial copies of my transcripts.

I think the transcripts (that document which shows which courses you took and what grades you received) might be the most challenging? In theory and "official" transcript is sent directly from the educational institution to the prospective employer without the candidate/graduate touching or viewing it. This could take a few weeks, and most colleges/universities require payment in advance. I think I can do this via email and with a credit card? I recently requested unoffical transcripts, just as back up, and while they are signed and embossed, they still say, "issued to student", rather than "official".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What! A digital image is even easier to forge than the sheepskin! Unless you were thinking that in the event of loss you could use the image to get a replacement made locally...

When applying to grad school I recall that some univ's required me to have transcripts sent directly from my univ to them, whereas at least one univ required that I obtain transcripts in sealed envelopes which were signed by my univ, and mail them in together with all the other application materials (they couldn't be bothered to collate stuff coming in from different sources). I was sort of figuring on trying that approach to the transcript thing. Also I figure going through the process of obtaining the sealed envelopes will re-educate me on how it would have to be done if the prospective employer required them direct from the univ.

Maybe from what IJWT said it will be sufficient to help the MoE obtain a transcript direct from the univ....

Edited February 26, 2005 by jerry921

[otherstuff1957]

I don't know if this will help or just add to the confusion . I lost my University Degree AND my birth certificate some time ago! Fortunately, I lived fairly near my University and was able to go there in person and get an "official" transcript. When I explaned about the lost Degree, I was told that the transcript would be sufficient.

I've been quite nervous about letting it out of my possession, but I've had to produce it for the MOE - teaching license and the MOL (or whatever the Labor Dept. is called). The Labor people just looked at it and compared it to the copies I'd given them and then returned it. I assume that the MOE people did the same - my company/school took care of that one for me.

[PeaceBlondie]

I wouldn't know, but are Thai officials going to insist on a sealed copy of an American transcript? Even though it says 'issued to student' it's still embossed, which should be official enough. My transcript has always looked too rinky-dink to have been put together on KhaoSahnRoad, and it's got all those courses I flunked, and transfer credits from all those other unis I flunked out of. The only 'education' course on the whole thing is "Philosophy of Physical Education" - basket weaving would have been far harder to pass. And that's just the place I got my BA at - the accounting hours were earned at such institutions of higher academic prestige as "South Oklahoma City Junior College" and "Oscar Rose Junior College," and that would be at least four more transcripts I can't be bothered with.

But sure, if you're going to teach a specialty, they want to know if you took Nuclear Physics 403, Comparative Chordate Anatomy 304, and Advanced Inorganic Chemistry 3104.

[Ijustwannateach]

Most of the time I think they've been pretty relaxed about it. I have a few open copies and a few sealed copies (ordered about 20 before I left the U.S.), and use as needed. I may have to think about re-ordering in a few years if I stay in Asia much longer.

The originals for my college (and many others) are "copy protected," so that when you photocopy them you can see the information but the background says "copy not original" in grey lettering all over it.

"Steven"

[moebius]

FYI:

In Canada there are:

2 year diploma programs which issue diplomas

3 & 4 degree programs which issue degrees

[Ijustwannateach]

bumped for jobhunters

[paulfr]

The issue of letting my degree out of my sight also worries me considerably.  I ordered transcripts to be sent by mail exactly 1 month ago and still have not received anything (yes, they were sent).  I am really afraid that if I submit my diploma to an institution here I may neve see it again.

Steven, how do you get a working permit and a TL if you don't submit your diplomas to the MOE?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I told my school that I would not let my passport or degrees out of my hands. So that means I have to go to the MOE and Immig Dept with the Personnel secretary when she makes her trip. Just an inconvenience for her to work around my class schedule is all.

[whalers7]

hmm this is interesting. I did not realize degrees had such a big shadow of grey depending on what country your from. In the US you don't have to go to a collage first then a university to get a bachelors degree, I guess collage and university also means something different then what it means in ENGLAND.

I have an associates degree from Johnson and wales university.

In the US associates degrees are fairly well regarded but I guess in the UK and thailand they are absolutely worthless.

It only takes 3 years too get a B.A in the UK,, jeez if that were the case in the states, I would of stuck around another year, but I didn't because my school was kind of expensive $8.000 per year (10 yrs ago) now the tuition is $16.000 per year..

Another point is that not all schools are structured the same. Johnson and Wales uses trimesters and and we had mandatory attendee. Unlike most collages/universities in US which use semesters and students show up when you want.

I guess thailand MOE uses the UK model as gage for educational aptitude. I guess I feel I'm getting a bit of a raw deal because I feel my A.A degree measures up with some B.A degrees offered by some schools around the world, especially in my major travel/tourism management. I wonder if I provide a transcript with it's extensive list of courses and internships would I be able to get away with that degree as opposed to a fake B.A.?

[kenkannif]

Actually if anything I'd say Thailand is more geared towards US degrees, most of them here don't even know what A levels are.

Your AA degree might well be enough with your employers backing mate.

[Simon6973]

why all this talk of degrees anyway?

I didn't think you needed one to teach in Thailand ? - I don't have one and never did - no one asks to look at it so what are you all worrying about?

You don't get paid anymore for having one so what's all the fuss about?

[PeaceBlondie]

why all this talk of degrees anyway?

I didn't think you needed one to teach in Thailand ? - I don't have one and never did - no one asks to look at it so what are you all worrying about?

  You don't get paid anymore for having one so what's all the fuss about?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, in the better-run schools that conduct some of the better-run interviews, your actual degree is the first thing they ask for. In the better assignments, you need a degree. Sure, you can teach without a degree if

a. You lie and say it's in the mail after your brother-in-law in Putney gets it back from Lord Afton.

b. You lie and they never follow up (although they will, or they won't try to get you a work permit or TL if they honestly expect you to have a degree).

c. You go to work at some school so desperate that they don't care.

d. You work at a school that's willing not only to get you a WP and TL, but is capable of convincing the officials to issue you one.

Yeah, you can practice medicine if you're a secondary school dropout. That was the movie, "Catch me if you can."