the pros, cons/risks of keeping weapons for self protection

[Ulysses G.]

True, but you are surrounded by people who DO have guns and if they break into your house when they know you are home, they are usually quite willing to use them. These are criminals who know that there is a good chance that they will be inturrupted and are ready to kill to prevent being caught.

[whatawonderfulday]

Remember well the old saying;

Live by the sword, die by the sword !!!

[rixalex]

Many of these issues were discussed in depth on this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Gun-t194941.html

[yumidesign]

but don't guns kill people, and in Thailand is it not a fact that if a farang murders he is sent to the BKK Hilton for a very long time?

Move!!!

[jubby]

Its certainly an interesting subject and an insight into some nationals psychi. I'm not knocking anyone here but I've not and hope not to reach the stage where I need a Gun.

Sweeping the room with a sawn off shotgun etc. disturbs me somewhat, but maybe its me who needs to get a grip on reality and get armed to the teeth. I've only fired the britsh army SLR of old, and once a Sa80 , I'm no coward either, but quite frankly Guns frighten the sh*t out of me.

If you do indeed need to tool up, and who am I to say your wrong; I'd be thinking nightvision googles would give you an advantage.

[wolfmanjack]

A 22 cal with a stinger load (similar to birdshot in a shotgun is a definite party stopper.

I Googled this, but could find no information on why it would be a good self defence round. Can you explain more?

He may have confused the names

A stinger made by CCI in 22LR is a heavy ( for 22 ) Bullet with high velocity

Where as the birshot type is just that a mini shotgun shell in 22 cal

Pictures of both below

Thanks thats the one . Been a while since I used a small caliber pistol or rifle.

birdshot in the face or the gut is devastating. close range (only) will blow your eyes out along with other features -same as a shotgun on a smaller scale. I think I would rather get hit with a regular round 22 if I had to choose(not that I would like to experience such a nasty experience. At least with a 22 cal the round has a lot of velocity & usually goes through a body opposed to a whoopin a mini shotgun blast would have.

Still I think the main point is how you might feel after killing a man. I have a lot of buddies from Vietnam war & they are all physiologically messed up to some point. Hunting for food is one thing but killing someone is a whole different scenario.

I think you are a little confused. A .22 caliber will not go through a persons body. I have shot many a rabbit with a .22 and it will not even go through a rabbits body or head. Now a .222 caliber is a completely different story. i had one of these also and it made an excellent deer rifle. This round will go through a body as long as it does not hit a major bone and will go through a deers head.

As for getting hit with a .22 bullet as opposed to a .22 bird shot i will go with the bird shot. less penetration therefore less chance of being lethal.

i grew up with many rifles , shotguns and pistols in the house. All loaded and ready to go with 6 kids. We were all trained at an early age and no accidents happened. training is the key and having relatively sane people around. i do not have a gun in thailand not because i am afraid of my kids getting a hold of it but because my wife loses her temper too easily.

[Spee]

i do not have a gun in thailand not because i am afraid of my kids getting a hold of it but because my wife loses her temper too easily.

Definitely a valid consideration.

I think you are a little confused. A .22 caliber will not go through a persons body. I have shot many a rabbit with a .22 and it will not even go through a rabbits body or head. Now a .222 caliber is a completely different story. i had one of these also and it made an excellent deer rifle. This round will go through a body as long as it does not hit a major bone and will go through a deers head.

As for getting hit with a .22 bullet as opposed to a .22 bird shot i will go with the bird shot. less penetration therefore less chance of being lethal.

Let's say hypothetically that the OP (or any homeowner for that matter) has made a decision to keep a firearm in the home for the purpose of self-defense. If the weapon is indeed for self-defense, then it has to do precisely that .... DEFEND.

When it comes to defense, I equate that to stopping and dropping power. In other words, I want a weapon and a cartridge that is guaranteed to stop and drop an intruder when hit center of mass. A .22 pistol, whether with a slug or birdshot, is not going to cut it. That means at least a .38 and preferably something like a 9mm, .44 or .45. I also want a high powered cartridge for a lot of kinetic energy, with a soft bullet that is going to deform and stay in the target, transferring all the kinetic energy, as opposed to going in and out. The only reasonable alternative is something like a 12-gauge short-barreled shotgun with heavy 00 shot.

When I had self-defense weapons in the home in America, I had a 12-gauge 18 inch barrel, 5-shot pump w/00 shells, and a .38 with heavy grain jacketed hollow points. Serious stuff for serious business to be sure.

Apologies for not sugar coating it, but if the OP is considering the acquisition of a firearm for self-defense, then this is a deadly serious proposition and the OP should get the right tools for what could be a deadly serious situation. Making a decision to have a gun is the same as making a decision to kill if necessary. These aren't decisions to be taken lightly.

[coventry]

Remember well the old saying;

Live by the sword, die by the sword !!!

They also say "The pen is mightier than the sword". Do we all go out and now buy a pen ?

[wolfmanjack]

i do not have a gun in thailand not because i am afraid of my kids getting a hold of it but because my wife loses her temper too easily.

Definitely a valid consideration.

I think you are a little confused. A .22 caliber will not go through a persons body. I have shot many a rabbit with a .22 and it will not even go through a rabbits body or head. Now a .222 caliber is a completely different story. i had one of these also and it made an excellent deer rifle. This round will go through a body as long as it does not hit a major bone and will go through a deers head.

As for getting hit with a .22 bullet as opposed to a .22 bird shot i will go with the bird shot. less penetration therefore less chance of being lethal.

Let's say hypothetically that the OP (or any homeowner for that matter) has made a decision to keep a firearm in the home for the purpose of self-defense. If the weapon is indeed for self-defense, then it has to do precisely that .... DEFEND.

When it comes to defense, I equate that to stopping and dropping power. In other words, I want a weapon and a cartridge that is guaranteed to stop and drop an intruder when hit center of mass. A .22 pistol, whether with a slug or birdshot, is not going to cut it. That means at least a .38 and preferably something like a 9mm, .44 or .45. I also want a high powered cartridge for a lot of kinetic energy, with a soft bullet that is going to deform and stay in the target, transferring all the kinetic energy, as opposed to going in and out. The only reasonable alternative is something like a 12-gauge short-barreled shotgun with heavy 00 shot.

When I had self-defense weapons in the home in America, I had a 12-gauge 18 inch barrel, 5-shot pump w/00 shells, and a .38 with heavy grain jacketed hollow points. Serious stuff for serious business to be sure.

Apologies for not sugar coating it, but if the OP is considering the acquisition of a firearm for self-defense, then this is a deadly serious proposition and the OP should get the right tools for what could be a deadly serious situation. Making a decision to have a gun is the same as making a decision to kill if necessary. These aren't decisions to be taken lightly.

00 Buck shot would definitely do the trick. especially since we are talking about inside the house where the target will probably be not more than 20 feet away. A .38 is a little light on the stopping power but a .357 magnum or 9 mm would be about right for he wife once she gets used to it. i had an 10 guage shot gun pistol and I could handle recoil no problem. My wife is pretty small at 5 foot 2, 42 kg's and she had no problem firing my .357 magnum or my 9mm machine pistol when we were in the states. A semi automatic 9mm should be okay. Personally i agree that the pump assault shotgun would be better in stressful situations. It is basically point in the general direction and shoot. Even if you don't hit them they will be out the door before you can pump in another shell. The below information is from a website. Not my own data.

12 Gauge:

One Shot Stopping Success: 81-96% (Actual)

Recommended Cartridges:

Federal "Tactical" 2-3/4-inch 00 buck 96%

Remington "Magnum" 3-inch 00 buck 94%

Winchester 2-3/4-inch 00 buck 94%

Federal 2-3/4-inch 00 buck 89%

Remington 2-3/4-inch 00 buck 88%

[Birdman]

Remember well the old saying;

Live by the sword, die by the sword !!!

They also say "The pen is mightier than the sword". Do we all go out and now buy a pen ?

No, we all build high bush labyrinths with secret traps around our houses.

[Heng]

Self defense ammo is seriously overpriced here and worse yet usually results in whatever stock you find, even in Wang Burapha, to be old and well smeared with oil from human fingers (because many folks buy them per ROUND instead of per box).

My preferred 9 mm cartridge is the Fed 135 grain Hydra-Shok JHP. About $20 a box back home. Here it's 120 Baht PER ROUND, or about $70 a box (that's a box of 20 mind you). Not a huge issue if the demand was there, but it simply isn't. It's like shopping at the various M&S outlets in Central... a lot of the times the stock has been sitting around for ages.

The best selling (hence freshest) and IMO most reliable 9 mm round here is Winchester (USA) 115 grain FMJ and for .38, Winchester Super-X 148 grain wad cutter. For for the 9 mm round... most would frown on LRN rounds being used for self defense because of the shoot through risk... but in order of importance you want to not have to worry about your ammo firing before you worry about a shoot through. For the Super X wad cutter, not nearly as effective as a hollow point round... but the stopping power is definitely there and no shoot through risk with a wad cutter. Local made ammo: Thai Arms and Bullet Thai is statistically inferior, but all the baddies and cops use them, and as most know, that hasn't kept the murder with firearms rates down at all compared to other countries. They still go *bang* more often than not.

I think the NRA or Fed stats on shootings say the average involve only 1.3-1.5 rounds fired, so it's probably safe to say that a .38 would be plenty. I have both a Glock 26 and S&W (637).38 and would almost always reach for the .38 given the ammo choices available here.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Heng

[Ulysses G.]

Remember well the old saying;

Live by the sword, die by the sword !!!

I think that that is supposed to apply to the aggresor, not someone defending his family!

[dynabob]

got a mate lives outside san juan,nicaragua he has .38 snub with permit,he fires it off a couple time's a week in the evenings as is norm for expat's there,theory being if the local scum know your armed they go for a weaker target .A high grade gun safe for when house is empty unless you are going to carry it with you.He say's this approach work's well in nica,as for thailand well who know's.PREVENTION

[coventry]

got a mate lives outside san juan,nicaragua he has .38 snub with permit,he fires it off a couple time's a week in the evenings as is norm for expat's there,theory being if the local scum know your armed they go for a weaker target .A high grade gun safe for when house is empty unless you are going to carry it with you.He say's this approach work's well in nica,as for thailand well who know's.PREVENTION

I mentioned this before in another thread that you should let be known to locals that you have a gun by firing it off now and again. I got crisised by a few, and name called. Some said I was indicating to others that I had a weapon, and that would induce the burglars to come armed. As of yet, since firing off, I haven't been burgled again.

[Ulysses G.]

Personally, I rather have any weapon come as a surprise for any nocturnal visitors.

[rolypie]

I am a reasonably affluent man married to a Thai, whos extended Thai family say i need to think about purchasing a fire arm for protection,due to the fact i have several new motor bikes and a top of the range Hilux and which hasnt gone unoticed ( what does ) when travelling around the Pattaya and Sakeo areas.My home is on a secure comunal estate so it would be for traveling around with, especially in the car. Ive been told it is really easy to purchase said item, any advice as i feel this is not really my cup of tea..

[laphroaig]

I am a reasonably affluent man married to a Thai, whos extended Thai family say i need to think about purchasing a fire arm for protection,due to the fact i have several new motor bikes and a top of the range Hilux and which hasnt gone unoticed ( what does ) when travelling around the Pattaya and Sakeo areas.My home is on a secure comunal estate so it would be for traveling around with, especially in the car. Ive been told it is really easy to purchase said item, any advice as i feel this is not really my cup of tea..

Regardless of any advice offered from locals in the forum ( I am not local so can not comment on the aspect of this within Thailand or from a 'thai' aspect) I would strongly advise you to stay well away from firearms.

You appear to have little or no background in such items and as such, getting any sort of firearm is likely to get you into far more trouble than not getting one would.

Wide berth recommended on getting a firearm.

Edited April 2, 2009 by laphroaig

[rolypie]

I am a reasonably affluent man married to a Thai, whos extended Thai family say i need to think about purchasing a fire arm for protection,due to the fact i have several new motor bikes and a top of the range Hilux and which hasnt gone unoticed ( what does ) when travelling around the Pattaya and Sakeo areas.My home is on a secure comunal estate so it would be for traveling around with, especially in the car. Ive been told it is really easy to purchase said item, any advice as i feel this is not really my cup of tea..

Regardless of any advice offered from locals in the forum ( I am not local so can not comment on the aspect of this within Thailand or from a 'thai' aspect) I would strongly advise you to stay well away from firearms.

You appear to have little or no background in such items and as such, getting any sort of firearm is likely to get you into far more trouble than not getting one would.

Wide berth recommended on getting a firearm.

Your right i have never had need for one,

Thanks for your comment much appreciated.

[Elwood62]

yes i would agree just look at the US and see what free acces to guns has done. stay away from them. and think if you have others in the house and car what if they get hold of it. as was said more drama than its worth.

[rolypie]

I would also be looking to attend a recognised safety course on how to hold and store the arm etc.

[laphroaig]

Your right i have never had need for one,

Just thinking this through. If safety is now compromised to the point of requiring a firearm, maybe a change of location is a more suitable answer.

Ask any expat from Johannesburg what they think

[taxexile]

am a reasonably affluent man

i need to think about purchasing a fire arm for protection,

i have a top of the range Hilux

"affluent", "firearm", "top of the range hilux".

you couldnt make this stuff up.

what colour is the hilux !!!

you must be alan partridge.

[rolypie]

am a reasonably affluent man

i need to think about purchasing a fire arm for protection,

i have a top of the range Hilux

"affluent", "firearm", "top of the range hilux".

you couldnt make this stuff up.

what colour is the hilux !!!

you must be alan partridge.

Well done, exellent input all round

Oh and its green like youre envy

Edited April 3, 2009 by rolypie

[p_brownstone]

Unless you have Permanent Residence status you cannot buy a gun in Thailand.

You could buy it in your wifes' name but even then you would not be allowed to carry it in your vehicle.

Of course you could ignore these regulations but if you ever have cause to use the gun in a confrontation and injure (or kill) someone you will have major problems with the police.

Patrick

[rolypie]

Unless you have Permanent Residence status you cannot buy a gun in Thailand.

You could buy it in your wifes' name but even then you would not be allowed to carry it in your vehicle.

Of course you could ignore these regulations but if you ever have cause to use the gun in a confrontation and injure (or kill) someone you will have major problems with the police.

Patrick

Now things are coming to light.

Thankyou for the information, i can see a pattern emerging here

[wolfmanjack]

Personally, I rather have any weapon come as a surprise for any nocturnal visitors.

They do have a point though. Any one with half a brain would choose an unarmed target to rob instead of one that you know is armed.

[imaneggspurt]

If my family said i needed a gun because of where i live, id move, .....jeez what is this the wild west, ....to protect my family ill keep away from trouble the best i can,,prevention better than cure and all that,.all you need is a potential robber to know you are armed and they will be too, if they want you they will still come,.however the sad truth is in thailand like many other places we need to "dress down " ,so get rid of the bikes and vigo and get a honda dream ( used ) and a mazda familaia, my friend has both and in 27 years in thailand has never been robbed

[rixalex]

Well done, exellent input all round

Oh and its green like youre envy

I think the point taxexile was making is that every man and his dog has a Vigo, and it is hardly likely to be pin-pointing you to the local criminals as a man of great resources.

If you are indeed wealthy and your life is at risk, why not simply move? It would be the safest option.

[Ulysses G.]

I agree, but the ones the would go after you in spite of the weapon, are the ones that really worry

me.

[slapout]

Everyone has an opinion it seems, so I will throw this out. My old favorite, Holland & Holland 470 double barrel (26 inch) brush rifle. Fantastic stopping power, even with initial hit being non lethal, shot barrel thus mobile in close quarters.

recoil may be too heavy for the wife, thus no threat from her. Confined to a enclosed area (bedroom, toilet, even living area) noise will be similar to stun grenade. Use black powder instead of a cordite and you will have the advantage of smoke grenade. Just remember to keep it loaded as it seems only the supposed unloaded weapons were the ones that accidentally got someone killed.