Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[Steve2UK]

Thanks John45 for being the eagle eye and reporting the Bangkok Post story

Here is the link to the Bangkok Post article online: http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/econom...igners-atm-fees

I'm posting it because there is the option to add comments on the article. At the moment there are six what I would call "angry" comments - perhaps someone with good first-hand knowledge of the banking system (as relates to real costs, 3rd-party charges etc) could post an informed and, above all, factual comment there? Who knows, it might start to influence a return to sensible/defensible practices by the TBA?

[siam2007]

Kasikorn ATM Sukhumvit. NO FEE! Exchange Rate of 35.23 as of 11am/03/May

nice to know, though: WHERE EXACTLY is that ATM please ? Sukhumvit runs 180 Kilometers all the way down to Cambodia

[Naam]

interesting statistics:

thread "ATM 150 Baht" average 620 views per day.

thread "Financial Crisis" average 420 views per day.

[flying]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/econom...igners-atm-fees

The Thai Bankers' Association will ask local banks to cut fee charges for foreign cardholders using local ATMs, according to association secretary-general Twatchai Yongkittikul.

[wimpy]

4/5/2009

Government Savings Bank (Chiang Mai)

No Fee

Rate: 35.23 - 1 USD

[Tyke]

Nationwide will start to pass on visa's 0.84% fee from June 1st 2009 and then from July 1st 2009 this will increase to 1%.

As mentioned many time's in this tread there is no charge if you apply for or have the Nationwide Flexaccount CASH CARD using the cirrus (Mastercard) network,not the Visa debit card, its Visa that charge this 1% fee & Nationwide have decided to pass it on.

You cannot get a Nationwide Cash Card if you already have a Flexaccount - see their web site.

Others have posted on here that they have successfully applied for a 2nd even a 3rd account.

Also my post regard a good family member opening the cash card for you like my Daughter did for me.

You seen the Nationwide website about this? It's easy to get more than 1 Flexaccount - I mean the website says you cannot get a cash card if u already have a Flexaccount. Maybe the rules have changed since they got both cards or maybe they got a csh card and then a debit card - better ask them.

[jgm005]

Kasikorn ATM Silom MTR Station at 11am on 04/May NO FEE Exchange Rate of 35.23

As for the poster who wanted to know the Kasikorn ATM I used on Sukhumvit (and yes I know it runs a rather long way) it is NOT ATM specific for Kasikorn. Any will do, at the moment, for no fee. The one I used was to the left of the LandMark Hotel where there seems to be a mini Kasikorn branch.

[ilgitano]

Anybody know if a nationwide flex CASH CARD (not DEBIT/VISA) can be used over the counter to avoid the 150 THB fee?

And would natwides exchange rates still apply?

Edited May 4, 2009 by ilgitano

[JimGant]

CHASE already charges me $3 USD per withdraw from here, now add 150 baht on top of that... So I'm hit with roughly $7 USD per ATM withdraw. I usually do one large withdraw a week so that adds $16 a month, $192 or so per year to my budget.

It's not the end of the world but dam_n. dry.gif

It's still cheaper than an international wire transfer

Tokay, you used only the flat surcharge and issuing bank fees. You forgot the 3% combined Chase/network fee.

Using 35bt/$ as the exchange rate, $40 as the wire fee (don't know the actual Chase rate), 200bt processing fee on Thai bank end, and a weekly withdrawal of 10,000bt:

Issuing bank fee: $3; ATM owner surcharge: $4.29; and 3% fee: $8.57 -- for a weekly total of $15.86 -- or $63/mo, $756/yr.

With these fees, and the given rate of 35bt, you realize an effective rate of 33.16bt per dollar.

If you wired monthly a dollar amount that would get you the 4 weekly withdrawals of 10000bt each, your effective rate would be 33.65bt per dollar -- or half a baht better than using the ATM. And an even better spread for higher amounts, or a breakeven point of about 5000bt/weekly withdrawal.

Anyway, point being, your Chase card is a bad deal -- even if you found an ATM machine that didn't charge 150bt. If your Chase account allows no-cost ACH transfers -- and many do -- you'd be well ahead of the game -- as instead of the $40 wire fee, you'd pay $5 for your monthly transfer to Thailand. Considering that even wire transfers are cheaper than what you're currently doing, this would be a quantum leap.

Everything considered, I'd dump that crappy Chase ATM card -- in case you did need to use an ATM machine one day. Just from this thread's inputs and links, you'll find several much better alternatives.

[ray23]

Theres been a thread about this in the Bangkok Post for some time now. I started it they were kind enough to run it. I tried with other news papers a well. no one ran it so maybe we should be saying thank you.

It's amazing how thngs get turned around the very institution that got this going is now conracting the local bank like they didn't have anything to do with it.

Guess they don't understand that we have time and we do read. Enough of the silliness they make a cut on evrey baht that goes through the system. If they had not been so greedy no one would have thougth about a small increase at all.

Just based on the fact that the Bankers Assocaition go this going in the first place then acting like it was something that just came out of the blue. I think I know who I will beleive.

[JimGant]

But he cautioned that any cuts would likely be marginal, as most of the fees represented charges imposed for international network access and simply passed on to end-users.

Interchange revenues flow two ways. For debit/credit card purchases, the merchant and his servicing bank send money to the issuing bank -- more for credit card purchases, less for debit card (that's why merchants prefer debit cards, issuing banks prefer credit cards).

But for ATMs -- where no merchandise with a profit markup is involved -- the interchange revenue goes from the issuing bank to the ATM owner -- with you, the ATM card holder, paying the fee (unless your bank picks it up, for whatever reason). But to say the ATM owners are being charged to use the networks is false. The issuing banks are.

The neworks (primarily Visa and MC) are involved with both flows -- and usually set the fees -- and, of course, take a percentage.

In fairness, interchange fees for ATM owners have apparently been coming down -- and best I can discover, they get a flat fee of about $.40-.60 per transaction. Whether this is enough to cover all costs, I don't know. Obviously, with flat fees, volume would play in the equation. And maybe some of that 150bt is warranted.........but maybe just at low volume locations.

To say 'most fees are imposed for international network access' is not strictly legit. But, I guess, they do represent the increased cost of less reimbursement from the networks -- which, as far as the banks are concerned, amounts to the same thing.

[thaimate]

Anybody know if a nationwide flex CASH CARD (not DEBIT/VISA) can be used over the counter to avoid the 150 THB fee?

And would natwides exchange rates still apply?

yes you can and rate was the same.

[Mali1964]

Just went to Villa market. Bangkok Bank ATM told me insufficient funds, utter crap. Went to the Kasikorn Machine next to it and got charged 150Bht with the same card. Another prime example of Thailands hidden racism.

This from the news tread that's running his he mistaken

[Langsuan Man]

Today, Monday 4 May 16:30

United Overseas Bank (UOB) , Pattaya Second Road, exchange booth ATM, US E*trade ATM card, 35.23 THB per USD, NO 150 THB fee, exchange rate in kiosk 34.86

[EmptyMind]

Just went to Villa market. Bangkok Bank ATM told me insufficient funds, utter crap. Went to the Kasikorn Machine next to it and got charged 150Bht with the same card. Another prime example of Thailands hidden racism.

This from the news tread that's running his he mistaken

This was under 1 hour ago. The machine warns you before withdrawal that you will be charged 150.

[ray23]

Another way to get the hair off the Kitty for Americans. Bangkok Bank has a unit in New York, by doing a auomatic debit payment to myself at the Bangkok Branch I'm told I can transfer the funds here automatically and I would not be using a foriegn ATM card any longer.

Been paying the ex blood money using this method ( three years to go ) for years no charge from my bank and it has bever failed. A little feed back plaese? I know the debit method is free at my current bank.

Actually I think this would be far easier then what I have been doing for seven years so they may have just done me a favor. I can alo redirect my retirement to the Bank of Bangkok in New York as a another option

s

Date: 5/2/2009 1:54:51 PM

Subject: RE: Online Banking

From: XXXXXXXX nline Banking Support

Message: Dear RAY

This message is in response to your inquiry regarding transfer options that are available for transferring money to another institution. To set up a transfer to another institution, you may enter in the individual and their banking information into the “Pay Bills” section on your Online banking as a new bill pay payee.

Please be advised that not all financial institutions are currently accepting electronic payments from our bill pay provider. This could result in paper checks being mailed to your payee.

To conduct a more immediate transfer, you have the option of requesting a wire transfer. The following information is needed for wire requests:

• Amount of wire transfer

• Dollar amount (in U.S. Dollars only)

• Account number to debit

• Name of receiving financial institution

• ABA routing number of receiving institution

• SWIFT code of receiving bank (only for international transactions)

• Name of individual/organization receiving the funds

• Account number to credit at the receiving institution

Please fax this information along with your signed request to 512-434-1059 Attention Wire department. Or mail your request:

XXXXXXXX Bank

Attn: Wire Department

P.O. Box 1149

Austin, TX 78767

Please note there is a $20.00 outgoing wire fee for domestic wires and a $55.00 outgoing wire fee for international wires.

Should you have further questions or concerns, please respond to this message. You may also contact us for immediate assistance at 800-925-6181, Monday through Friday 8:00AM-Midnight (12:00 AM) CST or Saturday 9:00AM-4:00PM CST.

Thank you for choosing XXXXXXXX Bank as your financial institution.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXXBank

Online Banking Services

Member FDIC

Equal Housing Lender

----------------------------------------------------

Sent: 4/30/2009 7:42:44 PM

To: XXXXXXXXBank

Subject: Online Banking

Please use this space to enter your message.

Can I make a monthly automatic Transfer to the Bank of Bangkok in New York?

Thank You

Ray

Edited May 4, 2009 by ray23

[Langsuan Man]

There are now three threads running about this same subject here at Thai Visa all with varying information but I am going to stick my neck out here and state this is the only one that is correct

We now can add one more to our gallery of banks

STILL NOT CHARGING 150 THB ATM FEE

Government Savings Bank Government Savings Bank

Kasikorn Bank Kasikorn Bank

Bank of Ayudhya Bank of Ayudhya

United Overseas Bank United Overseas Bank

Pending

Bank for Agriculture and Agricultral Cooperatives

[Mali1964]

Just went to Villa market. Bangkok Bank ATM told me insufficient funds, utter crap. Went to the Kasikorn Machine next to it and got charged 150Bht with the same card. Another prime example of Thailands hidden racism.

This from the news tread that's running his he mistaken

This was under 1 hour ago. The machine warns you before withdrawal that you will be charged 150.

Very strange the Mrs just this minute 18.30 Thai time used a Kasikorn bank Atm in Roi Et i was online with Nationwide UK at the same time i & saw the transaction real time i calculate a rate of 52.3 baht & no fee zero on the slip zero at my end.

[Mali1964]

I seem to have a problem with Bank for Agriculture and Agricultral Cooperatives ATM with this new Nationwide cash card Mrs said ATM would not accect the card & there was no Cirrus logo on the Machine she then tried Goverment savings same same she walked over the road & bless Kasikorn they delivered with no fee @ 52.3 baht.

Banks are on Holidays here in the UK & tommorow in Thailand i belive i want here to go in Branch with this card to ask why their ATM will not accept i will check with Nationwide at this end.

[Mali1964]

It seems odd that this UOB military bank & also some reports of no fee's at Bangkok bank today do you think banks have already backed down on this charge as i'm sure UOB was one of the first banks that was confirmed to have charged

[ray23]

Don't know seems about as fast a it took for them to put them on.

[prakhonchai nick]

8pm. Thai banks closed. Last rate from Kasikorn bank for £ was 51.97. Visa International showing 52bt with no deductions.

Have just obtained 52.257 from Kasikorn ATM in Prakhonchai -Buriram province. No 150bt fee!

[Mali1964]

8pm. Thai banks closed. Last rate from Kasikorn bank for £ was 51.97. Visa International showing 52bt with no deductions.

Have just obtained 52.257 from Kasikorn ATM in Prakhonchai -Buriram province. No 150bt fee!

As above i got 52.3 baht from Kasikorn no fee, this goes to show that its are home banks setting the ATM exchange rate using the visa/mastercard networks to calculate the real time rate.

I will now wait a few days till my transaction completes to check see if it remains at the same rate as the time the transaction took place.

[gavstah]

. . . . we've read here about some E*Trade ATM cards that don't charge anything on their own -- plus they absorb the 1% foreign transaction fee charged by Visa. Great deal -- the only proviso being, apparently, you need to be a premier customer of some sort, either by amounts in your account and/or amounts traded per cycle. Not bad, particularly if you would have done this without any ATM fee forgiveness in mind at all.

But, I've not seen anywhere where E*Trade reimburses ATM owner fees.....

To qualify for the no fee ATM with eTrade Bank checking, you need either a minimum monthly balance of $5000 USD, or a monthly (or more frequent) direct deposit of $200 (that's two hundred) dollars or greater. That's what it was when I signed up anyway, and I've not seen a change in service terms. You can also open up an account online.

I've been using my eTrade Bank ATM card here for about 2 years now - and never had a charge added to an ATM withdrawl - the money I withdraw is typically right on with the current exchange rate - for example, withdrew 20k baht this weekend from Krungsri (Ayudhaya) Bank and the exchange rate worked out to 35.30 baht according to my online statement at eTrade. No fees, period. Well, until Siam Commercial Bank last week, but I digress . . .

This Bangkok Bank deal sounds promising though - it would certainly make things easier to just log into online banking and xfer money over here.

[Mali1964]

8pm. Thai banks closed. Last rate from Kasikorn bank for £ was 51.97. Visa International showing 52bt with no deductions.

Have just obtained 52.257 from Kasikorn ATM in Prakhonchai -Buriram province. No 150bt fee!

As above i got 52.3 baht from Kasikorn no fee, this goes to show that its are home banks setting the ATM exchange rate using the visa/mastercard networks to calculate the real time rate.

I will now wait a few days till my transaction completes to check see if it remains at the same rate as the time the transaction took place.

From Nationwide site on how they apply their ATM transactions, notice the rate's apply on the day they charge your account, that's why i have sometime's noticed a change in the rate on the day & the rate when the transaction is fully entered on my account.

Using your FlexAccount debit card or credit card to make cash withdrawals abroad

When you are withdrawing cash from an ATM abroad you will be given the cash in the local currency. The transaction will be converted to sterling on the date the transaction is debited from your account, at the rate of exchange applied by VISA. For more information you can view the Visa website. Please note, Nationwide are not responsible for the content or accuracy of third party websites.

Both the VISA and DELTA logos are shown on the FlexAccount debit card and cash can be withdrawn from any ATM, bank or building society which display these logos.

The Visa charge will apply to cash withdrawals made outside of the Visa Europe region.

[Mali1964]

For those UK members interested in the Nationwide Cirrus Cash Card use i have today sent an e mail to the Government Savings Bank if anyone can locate an e mail for the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives Link here! i will copy them in also.

http://www.baac.or.th/baac_en/index.php

Hello

Today my wife in Kaset Wisei Roi Et province went to your branch ATM with a cirrus card, the ATM refused her, she crossed the road where Kasikorn ATM dispensed the cash required,can you confirm if your ATM's can take cirrus which is part of the Mastercard network

Thank you.

Note!! this is the only true fee free combination available from any UK bank as Nationwide are soon to implement a 1% fee to the use of their Debit Card in Thailand, as of now though i can only confirm that its good in Kasikorn ATM'S unless other Cash Card holders can confirm otherwise.

[citizen33]

Appreciate your efforts in trying to check this out. I'm in the UK at present and cannot do any first hand checking. It would be good to know if the BAAC ATM displayed the Visa logo, as I still have the NW card that will soon charge 1%. There is a BAAC branch close to our Thai home, which would be convenient if they turn out to be fee free.

[phaethon]

What Nationwide seem to do is as soon as they are notified of the transaction they estimate the amount using that day's rate and deduct it from your 'account balance' to give what they display as you 'available balance' i.e. = your 'account balance' minus these estimates of transactions 'in the system'. A few days later the transaction is finalized and the rate at that time is used to calculate the amount finally deducted from your account. So all these reports of "I got such-and-such a rate at the ATM" are likely to be a little inaccurate depending on the rate changes between the day of the ATM transaction and the actual deduction.

When I did my 100k transfer via SCB (see post #306) it showed on the day as £1938.02 but was finalized at £1932.31, so not only did I save 7 x 150Baht ATM fees (had I used a charging ATM to withdraw the same amount over several days), but almost 6 quid on the deferred rate Of course it could easily have been a loss if the rate had moved the other way.

Has anyone asked the Nationwide yet if you can swap your debit card for a cash card?

Edited May 4, 2009 by phaethon

[Mali1964]

Appreciate your efforts in trying to check this out. I'm in the UK at present and cannot do any first hand checking. It would be good to know if the BAAC ATM displayed the Visa logo, as I still have the NW card that will soon charge 1%. There is a BAAC branch close to our Thai home, which would be convenient if they turn out to be fee free.

Today they would not take my NW cirrus card & nobody on here as verified using this bank yet except myself, as i do not have a visa NW card over there at the moment i can not confirm this but maybe they just don't take foreign cards full stop only time will tell' i hope my Mrs will go in there Wednesday & ask them but she's real shy so i can't count on it.

[Mali1964]

What Nationwide seem to do is as soon as they are notified of the transaction they estimate the amount using that day's rate and deduct it from your 'account balance' to give what they display as you 'available balance' i.e. = your 'account balance' minus these estimates of transactions 'in the system'. A few days later the transaction is finalized and the rate at that time is used to calculate the amount finally deducted from your account. So all these reports of "I got such-and-such a rate at the ATM" are likely to be a little inaccurate depending on the rate changes between the day of the ATM transaction and the actual deduction.

When I did my 100k transfer via SCB (see post #306) it showed on the day as £1938.02 but was finalized at £1932.31, so not only did I save 7 x 150Baht ATM fees (had I used a charging ATM to withdraw the same amount over several days), but almost 6 quid on the deferred rate Of course it could easily have been a loss if the rate had moved the other way.

Has anyone asked the Nationwide yet if you can swap your debit card for a cash card?

Yes someone reported this earlier in the tread & NW reminded him that he would lose is purchase & overdraft facility as its a downgrade of your account as i stated earlier in this thread, so its best to keep that account for obvious reasons, check out the claims that some (steve2uk??) have reported applying for 2 accounts with no problems

As mentioned with other banks writen policy is not always practised so may be its worth an online application for the cash card, if not go down my get a family member route, as i stated there is no risk for them of you getting the account in debt as its not allowed on this type of account & after all that's what family are for to help each other

Try sending a message from the online message section to ask can you request a 2nd account see what they say,or you want to downgrade.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Mali1964