Does Thailand Want Us Here?

[thaimate]

before anyone jumps up and down and shouts ,i love it in Thailand and always have.our neighbours are terrific and i have a good familly who never want anything(except her young brother,lazy sod),but its those in charge ,who always seem to want our money ,but give us nothing in return .things like double pricing,150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m. draconian visa regulations ,not being able to own land ,ect what is it? they keep coming out with guff about making Thailand the perfect destination but to my mind its just b-llocks.

what do you lot think?

[canuckamuck]

Xenophobes make poor hosts.

[noahvail]

Xenophobes make poor hosts.

Seconded.

[FairwayJack]

before anyone jumps up and down and shouts ,i love it in Thailand and always have.our neighbours are terrific and i have a good familly who never want anything(except her young brother,lazy sod),but its those in charge ,who always seem to want our money ,but give us nothing in return .things like double pricing,150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m. draconian visa regulations ,not being able to own land ,ect what is it? they keep coming out with guff about making Thailand the perfect destination but to my mind its just b-llocks.

what do you lot think?

What is this 150 baht for the ATM ??....Pls explain

[JR Texas]

Xenophobes make poor hosts.

Seconded.

Totally agree.

[webfact]

Xenophobes make poor hosts.

Seconded.

Totally agree.

me too!

[thaimate]

before anyone jumps up and down and shouts ,i love it in Thailand and always have.our neighbours are terrific and i have a good familly who never want anything(except her young brother,lazy sod),but its those in charge ,who always seem to want our money ,but give us nothing in return .things like double pricing,150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m. draconian visa regulations ,not being able to own land ,ect what is it? they keep coming out with guff about making Thailand the perfect destination but to my mind its just b-llocks.

what do you lot think?

What is this 150 baht for the ATM ??....Pls explain

the banks have started charging 150 baht when you make a withdrawel from an atm with a non thai card.

[geriatrickid]

Weeeeeeeeee, another thread about us and them.

When you use the term "us", please don't assume that we are all the same. If your "us" includes people of marginal income, lacking needed job skills or not possessing an ability to truly contribute to the well being and economic growth of Thailand, then yes, your assessment is correct. Horrible isn't it that

So let's look at your complaints shall we?

draconian visa regulations

Thailand has the same position as other countries like Australia, Canada, the USA and the EU. When was the last time you saw Australia set up a recruiting booth in Africa, India or even Europe and ask uneducated people that would contribute nothing of great value to the society or economy to move to Australia? You do realize that the UK, USA etc. all impose financial requirements in order to obtain investment or retirement visas right? Do you know how difficult it is for a Thai to get a tourist visa to a western country?

things like double pricing,

We already have a thread going on that but I know from my own experience in other countries that I often paid more for local services. Need some examples? Take boring Canada;

- University tuition for "foreign" students is in the tens of thousands while students resident in the province pay only a few thousand.

- Medical care is "free" to residents that may pay for some services such as non hospital based tests. Foreigners pay rates and costs that would preclude most Thais from obtaining medical care. For example, the charge to a non resident for a doctor visit can be $100-$250 depending upon the province. This is significantly higher than the $20-$40. a foreigner is charged in Thailand.

- Entrance to SixFlags amusement park in Montreal: Non residents pay approx. 2X the cost of residents.

150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m.

What's your point? Western banks do the same thing. When use a bank that isn't my branch in the west, I pay an atm access fee + my bank's added fee. This can amount to 150B as well. I just noticed that my west issued Mastercard has been adding 200b fees to my card for purchases I made on the internet in the west.

,not being able to own land ,

Did you know that in Prince Edward Island, Canada non residents are not allowed to purchase land? The locals passed the law because they were worried about all sorts of rich foreigners coming in and buying up the province. It has withstood all sorts of court challenges because the law was intended to protect the local culture. Just like in PEI, if there would be a free for all in Thailand that would occur if foreigners were allowed to own land. Large chunks of agricultural land would be drawn out of the economy. Nevermind that, but alot of folks whining about not being able to buy land might then be whining about Indians, Chinese and Arabs forcing up land prices beyond the reach of western retirees because they were on buying sprees.

For those of "us" that are responsible citizens and have either the financial wherewithall or important job skills or that can help the economy, the welcome is there. If someone just wants to sit around drinking beer and copulating with impoverished sex workers in Pattaya and that would be considered trash in his or her own country, no the welcome isn't there.

[TonySoprano]

Do you guys ever get tired to bitching and complaining?

Worry about your own bank account number, that is all that really matters anywhere. Are you welcome here? If you have enough of the local money you are welcome anywhere.

I think perhaps you are one of those guys who hates farang who tip too much cause its "bad for the locals".

[webfact]

Weeeeeeeeee, another thread about us and them.

When you use the term "us", please don't assume that we are all the same. If your "us" includes people of marginal income, lacking needed job skills or not possessing an ability to truly contribute to the well being and economic growth of Thailand, then yes, your assessment is correct. Horrible isn't it that

So let's look at your complaints shall we?

draconian visa regulations

Thailand has the same position as other countries like Australia, Canada, the USA and the EU. When was the last time you saw Australia set up a recruiting booth in Africa, India or even Europe and ask uneducated people that would contribute nothing of great value to the society or economy to move to Australia? You do realize that the UK, USA etc. all impose financial requirements in order to obtain investment or retirement visas right? Do you know how difficult it is for a Thai to get a tourist visa to a western country?

things like double pricing,

We already have a thread going on that but I know from my own experience in other countries that I often paid more for local services. Need some examples? Take boring Canada;

- University tuition for "foreign" students is in the tens of thousands while students resident in the province pay only a few thousand.

- Medical care is "free" to residents that may pay for some services such as non hospital based tests. Foreigners pay rates and costs that would preclude most Thais from obtaining medical care. For example, the charge to a non resident for a doctor visit can be $100-$250 depending upon the province. This is significantly higher than the $20-$40. a foreigner is charged in Thailand.

- Entrance to SixFlags amusement park in Montreal: Non residents pay approx. 2X the cost of residents.

150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m.

What's your point? Western banks do the same thing. When use a bank that isn't my branch in the west, I pay an atm access fee + my bank's added fee. This can amount to 150B as well. I just noticed that my west issued Mastercard has been adding 200b fees to my card for purchases I made on the internet in the west.

,not being able to own land ,

Did you know that in Prince Edward Island, Canada non residents are not allowed to purchase land? The locals passed the law because they were worried about all sorts of rich foreigners coming in and buying up the province. It has withstood all sorts of court challenges because the law was intended to protect the local culture. Just like in PEI, if there would be a free for all in Thailand that would occur if foreigners were allowed to own land. Large chunks of agricultural land would be drawn out of the economy. Nevermind that, but alot of folks whining about not being able to buy land might then be whining about Indians, Chinese and Arabs forcing up land prices beyond the reach of western retirees because they were on buying sprees.

For those of "us" that are responsible citizens and have either the financial wherewithall or important job skills or that can help the economy, the welcome is there. If someone just wants to sit around drinking beer and copulating with impoverished sex workers in Pattaya and that would be considered trash in his or her own country, no the welcome isn't there.

Personally I agree with many you state above but being around her for almost 3 decades I realize growing hostility towards "aliens". And to be frank, this started in that moment the very red man came to power...

Edited April 20, 2009 by webfact

[samuibeachcomber]

geriatrickid,all your points are true,but it would be nice if farang married to thais were given more consideration,re visa requirements,owning house and land come to mind.after all the farang is legally married and will probably be taking care of extended family to some degree and i think should be given more consideration because of this.

[dbrenn]

Weeeeeeeeee, another thread about us and them.

When you use the term "us", please don't assume that we are all the same. If your "us" includes people of marginal income, lacking needed job skills or not possessing an ability to truly contribute to the well being and economic growth of Thailand, then yes, your assessment is correct. Horrible isn't it that

So let's look at your complaints shall we?

draconian visa regulations

Thailand has the same position as other countries like Australia, Canada, the USA and the EU. When was the last time you saw Australia set up a recruiting booth in Africa, India or even Europe and ask uneducated people that would contribute nothing of great value to the society or economy to move to Australia? You do realize that the UK, USA etc. all impose financial requirements in order to obtain investment or retirement visas right? Do you know how difficult it is for a Thai to get a tourist visa to a western country?

things like double pricing,

We already have a thread going on that but I know from my own experience in other countries that I often paid more for local services. Need some examples? Take boring Canada;

- University tuition for "foreign" students is in the tens of thousands while students resident in the province pay only a few thousand.

- Medical care is "free" to residents that may pay for some services such as non hospital based tests. Foreigners pay rates and costs that would preclude most Thais from obtaining medical care. For example, the charge to a non resident for a doctor visit can be $100-$250 depending upon the province. This is significantly higher than the $20-$40. a foreigner is charged in Thailand.

- Entrance to SixFlags amusement park in Montreal: Non residents pay approx. 2X the cost of residents.

150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m.

What's your point? Western banks do the same thing. When use a bank that isn't my branch in the west, I pay an atm access fee + my bank's added fee. This can amount to 150B as well. I just noticed that my west issued Mastercard has been adding 200b fees to my card for purchases I made on the internet in the west.

,not being able to own land ,

Did you know that in Prince Edward Island, Canada non residents are not allowed to purchase land? The locals passed the law because they were worried about all sorts of rich foreigners coming in and buying up the province. It has withstood all sorts of court challenges because the law was intended to protect the local culture. Just like in PEI, if there would be a free for all in Thailand that would occur if foreigners were allowed to own land. Large chunks of agricultural land would be drawn out of the economy. Nevermind that, but alot of folks whining about not being able to buy land might then be whining about Indians, Chinese and Arabs forcing up land prices beyond the reach of western retirees because they were on buying sprees.

For those of "us" that are responsible citizens and have either the financial wherewithall or important job skills or that can help the economy, the welcome is there. If someone just wants to sit around drinking beer and copulating with impoverished sex workers in Pattaya and that would be considered trash in his or her own country, no the welcome isn't there.

Ha ha - like your response. Very true too. Thailand is certainly not alone in welcoming people who have something to offer more than those that don't. How many countries around the world allow 'resident tourism'? Try explaining to a Thai how he can live in the west indefinitely on visa runs.

If you have the skills and the money, you can live and work in Thailand. So long as you are nice to people, Thais are generally very nice back - more so in many cases than the rude responses you get in the western world. If, on the other hand, a foreigner behaves like a misery guts with a chip on his shoulder, the local people won't seem all that nice at all, and may even appear 'xenophobic'.

Edited April 20, 2009 by dbrenn

[bkkjames]

before anyone jumps up and down and shouts ,i love it in Thailand and always have.our neighbours are terrific and i have a good familly who never want anything(except her young brother,lazy sod),but its those in charge ,who always seem to want our money ,but give us nothing in return .things like double pricing,150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m. draconian visa regulations ,not being able to own land ,ect what is it? they keep coming out with guff about making Thailand the perfect destination but to my mind its just b-llocks.

what do you lot think?

What is this 150 baht for the ATM ??....Pls explain

the banks have started charging 150 baht when you make a withdrawel from an atm with a non thai card.

Interesting, curious to know what the fee would be if I used my Thai Bank card in London? Seems to me this is not a Thai issue as much as a 'Bank' issue.

[dbrenn]

Interesting, curious to know what the fee would be if I used my Thai Bank card in London? Seems to me this is not a Thai issue as much as a 'Bank' issue.

It's a bank issue. I get charged when using my Thai ATM card abroad, and I get charged for using my Australian ATM card in Thailand. Banks the world over are looking to increase fee revenues. I think this varies from bank to bank, but the charge used to be 100B for using an SCB ATM card abroad. I haven't done it for a few months, so it could have gone up.

Edited April 20, 2009 by dbrenn

[geriatrickid]

geriatrickid,all your points are true,but it would be nice if farang married to thais were given more consideration,re visa requirements,owning house and land come to mind.after all the farang is legally married and will probably be taking care of extended family to some degree and i think should be given more consideration because of this.

And you are correct. Just read another thread where someone makes the point in great detail. It is indeed discriminatory and my comments were not in respect to this aspect. I am addressing the majority of us that are not married to thais. I don't know what the solution is, because I know what the fear is: The BG quickie marriages that would occur to circumvent the rules. Same thing happens in the west with the marriages of convenience to get immigrant status. Perhaps a 5 year rule with required residency and co-habitation? it'sa bit like my tax situation. I still pay tax to my homeland. Under the income tax laws, as a single person I don't get the large tax benefits given to the elderly, the married, those with kids or those with income less than 700,000b per annum.

In answer to the other observation on the hostility, I have noticed it too. However, I think it's more a reflection of general fear and the economy than anything else. true, that doesn't help us, but at least the protests aren't ending up as violent as they are in Greece, Canada or France just yet.

[phaethon]

What is this 150 baht for the ATM ??....Pls explain

See:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Banks-S...it-t255263.html

[samuibeachcomber]

yes a 5 year rule would be a good beginning,i see your point about marraiges of convenience and a 5 year obligation would be a good start.

[torrenova]

Do you guys ever get tired to bitching and complaining?

Worry about your own bank account number, that is all that really matters anywhere. Are you welcome here? If you have enough of the local money you are welcome anywhere.

I think perhaps you are one of those guys who hates farang who tip too much cause its "bad for the locals".

I think it is far sadder when we see attitudes like yours who seem to think any amount of shafting by the locals and their government is ok. Let's face facts, if the country wants to be anything more than a grow food and eat it economy then they need western investment in all forms, including residents. I think the land issue is a hard one or you'd have no land for the Thais as prices spiralled out of control but visas are an easy area to accommodate foreigners.

Do they really want us ? Not even 1%. They are addicted to our money though.

[JimsKnight]

Visa rules aren't crazy if you apply for a one year visa in your home country.

If you're feeling flush and don't want to fly home to do it then about 23,000 baht to a visa firm in BKK will courier the passport back to the UK and get you a 1 year visa while you smile all the way to the border

I am starting to seriously distance myself from the farang who spew all this negative bs and venom against anything and everything. They drag all nearby into their misery machine and it gets you nowhere.

Be creative, keep out of the shit and don't worry about Thailand being quirky, group-minded or anti-white man. Because those three factors are only a problem if you let it become a problem.

Do let it worry you, live your life and all should tumble itself out in the end

[kiakaha]

before anyone jumps up and down and shouts ,i love it in Thailand and always have.our neighbours are terrific and i have a good familly who never want anything(except her young brother,lazy sod),but its those in charge ,who always seem to want our money ,but give us nothing in return .things like double pricing,150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m. draconian visa regulations ,not being able to own land ,ect what is it? they keep coming out with guff about making Thailand the perfect destination but to my mind its just b-llocks.

what do you lot think?

if you're not a tourist and you have a local debit or credit card ie: you work in thailand, then that takes care of 66% of your gripes (ignoring the "etc")

[mickba]

the banks have started charging 150 baht when you make a withdrawel from an atm with a non thai card.

I haven't hit this one yet, apart from in Cambodia.

Have all Thai banks started charging? With Nationwide/Visa starting to charge in May/June that would require a rethink. Are we back to occasional lumps into Kasikorn/wherever at £21 a go or will the Thai banks hit them as well.

Buggery <deleted> that's all we needed with this exchange rate. Twist the knife why don't you?

What was the OP? - Do they want us here? Dream on As always, they only want our money and as much of it as possible.

Unfortunately, there still doesn't seem to be a place we'd rather be.

[keithlee]

i doubt many coubntries would welcome people who mooch off the locals........... and in doing so cause them irreparable harm. ....

Edited April 20, 2009 by keithlee

[TonySoprano]

Do you guys ever get tired to bitching and complaining?

Worry about your own bank account number, that is all that really matters anywhere. Are you welcome here? If you have enough of the local money you are welcome anywhere.

I think perhaps you are one of those guys who hates farang who tip too much cause its "bad for the locals".

I think it is far sadder when we see attitudes like yours who seem to think any amount of shafting by the locals and their government is ok. Let's face facts, if the country wants to be anything more than a grow food and eat it economy then they need western investment in all forms, including residents. I think the land issue is a hard one or you'd have no land for the Thais as prices spiralled out of control but visas are an easy area to accommodate foreigners.

Do they really want us ? Not even 1%. They are addicted to our money though.

blah blah blah blah

[Crossy]

If you're feeling flush and don't want to fly home to do it then about 23,000 baht to a visa firm in BKK will courier the passport back to the UK and get you a 1 year visa while you smile all the way to the border

However, you will stop smiling when the immigration man at the border cancels this illegally obtained visa and gives you a 15 day visa exemption stamp

Edited April 20, 2009 by Crossy

[mhatami]

Interesting, curious to know what the fee would be if I used my Thai Bank card in London? Seems to me this is not a Thai issue as much as a 'Bank' issue.

It's a bank issue. I get charged when using my Thai ATM card abroad, and I get charged for using my Australian ATM card in Thailand. Banks the world over are looking to increase fee revenues. I think this varies from bank to bank, but the charge used to be 100B for using an SCB ATM card abroad. I haven't done it for a few months, so it could have gone up.

I really think Thais are good imitator and when western banks started to charge fee, then they will also do it since they know they can also make money, after all most of these banks are partially owned by western countries

[webfact]

If you're feeling flush and don't want to fly home to do it then about 23,000 baht to a visa firm in BKK will courier the passport back to the UK and get you a 1 year visa while you smile all the way to the border

However, you will stop smiling when the immigration man at the border cancels this illegally obtained visa and gives you a 15 day visa exemption stamp

and praise the Lord if you not been arrested on the spot! Thai jails do not have a good reputation...

Edited April 20, 2009 by webfact

[JR Texas]

If you're feeling flush and don't want to fly home to do it then about 23,000 baht to a visa firm in BKK will courier the passport back to the UK and get you a 1 year visa while you smile all the way to the border

However, you will stop smiling when the immigration man at the border cancels this illegally obtained visa and gives you a 15 day visa exemption stamp

Might as well forget it........I have been trying for years to get the love Thailand or leave it crowd (many living here under grandfathered in visa rules) to understand your unstated point: The visa bar continues to be raised and eventually will hurt all expats. They don't get it and won't until the bar starts strangling them.

[arnoldjr]

the thai elite like to limit what foreigners can do to protect what they have. remember when the chinese came into thailand and with a little hard work they took over the power and wealth of the country in just a short time. most of the regular thai's now complain that they are greedy and power hungry. jealous maybe? the elite are just ensuring that they keep there majority piece of the pie. they know the amount of wealth foreigners stand to produce is more than enough to make them no longer "elite".

[TonySoprano]

yeah. all these broke back packers and english teachers would be running things if not for the elites and their unfair laws!

Im Angry! Grrrrrrrr!

[bonobo]

Weeeeeeeeee, another thread about us and them.

When you use the term "us", please don't assume that we are all the same. If your "us" includes people of marginal income, lacking needed job skills or not possessing an ability to truly contribute to the well being and economic growth of Thailand, then yes, your assessment is correct. Horrible isn't it that

So let's look at your complaints shall we?

draconian visa regulations

Thailand has the same position as other countries like Australia, Canada, the USA and the EU. When was the last time you saw Australia set up a recruiting booth in Africa, India or even Europe and ask uneducated people that would contribute nothing of great value to the society or economy to move to Australia? You do realize that the UK, USA etc. all impose financial requirements in order to obtain investment or retirement visas right? Do you know how difficult it is for a Thai to get a tourist visa to a western country?

things like double pricing,

We already have a thread going on that but I know from my own experience in other countries that I often paid more for local services. Need some examples? Take boring Canada;

- University tuition for "foreign" students is in the tens of thousands while students resident in the province pay only a few thousand.

- Medical care is "free" to residents that may pay for some services such as non hospital based tests. Foreigners pay rates and costs that would preclude most Thais from obtaining medical care. For example, the charge to a non resident for a doctor visit can be $100-$250 depending upon the province. This is significantly higher than the $20-$40. a foreigner is charged in Thailand.

- Entrance to SixFlags amusement park in Montreal: Non residents pay approx. 2X the cost of residents.

150 baht charge to take your money out of an a.t.m.

What's your point? Western banks do the same thing. When use a bank that isn't my branch in the west, I pay an atm access fee + my bank's added fee. This can amount to 150B as well. I just noticed that my west issued Mastercard has been adding 200b fees to my card for purchases I made on the internet in the west.

,not being able to own land ,

Did you know that in Prince Edward Island, Canada non residents are not allowed to purchase land? The locals passed the law because they were worried about all sorts of rich foreigners coming in and buying up the province. It has withstood all sorts of court challenges because the law was intended to protect the local culture. Just like in PEI, if there would be a free for all in Thailand that would occur if foreigners were allowed to own land. Large chunks of agricultural land would be drawn out of the economy. Nevermind that, but alot of folks whining about not being able to buy land might then be whining about Indians, Chinese and Arabs forcing up land prices beyond the reach of western retirees because they were on buying sprees.

For those of "us" that are responsible citizens and have either the financial wherewithall or important job skills or that can help the economy, the welcome is there. If someone just wants to sit around drinking beer and copulating with impoverished sex workers in Pattaya and that would be considered trash in his or her own country, no the welcome isn't there.

Your overall point is well-taken, but not all your facts are really valid.

Thai visa nd vias laws for most western coutnries are far different.  For THai tourists coming to the West, it is pretty hard for most to get a visa while the reverse, Westerners comign to Thailand, is pretty easy.  However, for people actually living in another country, it is far easier for Thais to go to school, get permanent residency, work, or obtain citizenship in the US, at elast, than for an American to enjoy the same in Thailand.  Thailand does treat foreign-born people with far less latitude than the same in many other nations.

YOu point out Prince Edward Island.  Well, that is an exception.  Foreigners can own land in most Western countries.  I have plenty of THai friends who bought homes in the US.  Most of my THai classmates when i was in school bought homes in San Diego.  I have a friend now who will be sending his son next year to school there, and he will buy him a home to live in while he attends.

The home restriction is actually pretty stupid.  Unlike a company, for example, where profits might be repatriated, a home stays where it is.  It can't be taken away.  And the taxes on the home are a direct flow from one country to the home country.

Overall, though, I agree with your sentiment if not all the specific points.