Beware Builder/architect Surin

[wildoates]

Beware of a builder/Architect/Teacher in the Surin area I won't go into details yet, but if you have questions pm me.

Edited April 25, 2009 by wildoates

[Dave the Dude]

Beware of a builder/Architect/Teacher in the Surin area I won't go into details yet, but if you have questions pm me.

Your post helps no-one.

Please try to explain further in open forum giving details not nonsensical ambiguous statements.

Dave

[wildoates]

You are correct, I am cautious of what I say, cause I am still trying to work things out. But I hired a builder/Architect in surin to build a house. I gave him a floor plan and he drew up the building plans. Back and forth and finally started the house. He assured me of complete oversite and what the quality would be. I looked at a couple of houses he built and all looked OK. Well it started out OK, but now as the finish work, I might as well hired the local people. The quality is not there, now I hear, that was not in the budget, I have to pay more. He has taken supplies from the worksite for his own use on his house he is having built, I called him on it, and he said yes he took the items but he had to buy more anyway, but guess with who's money. There are several things that I told him are not acceptable, now he won't even return calls. He has not come to look at the building of the house for several weeks, stopped in, told them they were not putting the tile in the master bath in the pattern he wanted, so they had to rip it off, guess who is buying the additional tiles? The windows are the lowest quality that is out there. Just plain poor quality, and no customer skills.

[Maestro]

Wildoates is doing the right thing by not naming the person in question, as this would be against forum rules. Defamation/libel laws are different in Thailand and one can be found guilty even if what one says is true.

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Maestro

[PaddyThai]

From the OP's post it is difficult to see if builder/architect is completely at fault here.

What kind of contractual agreement did you have?

Did you clearly specify a type of window or agree tiling pattern?

It is essential to agree what is to be built, what is included in price and completion date before signing contract and starting work. Unless this was done both you and your builder have a different idea of what is expected.

[torrenova]

Wildoates is doing the right thing by not naming the person in question, as this would be against forum rules. Defamation/libel laws are different in Thailand and one can be found guilty even if what one says is true.

--

Maestro

I thought this site was hosted in Singapore not Thailand ?

[wildoates]

From the OP's post it is difficult to see if builder/architect is completely at fault here.

What kind of contractual agreement did you have?

Did you clearly specify a type of window or agree tiling pattern?

It is essential to agree what is to be built, what is included in price and completion date before signing contract and starting work. Unless this was done both you and your builder have a different idea of what is expected.

Undertand what you are saying, we have a contract, he is on the tarket date, not late, He had us pick out the items we wanted, and gave us a price for the house, now he is running short on money (due to his house being built) so he is short changing me. I showed him what I wanted for the kitchen, nothing real fancy,he made the comment that is a Farang kitchen, now says it was not in the budget. 1.6 for appox 100 sq meter 1 story house.

Home Mart is where the tile was picked out, they did the pattern, and that was what was given to the workers, I saw it, even had to give them a better copy but then he came when they were over half done says he changed the patteren??

Windows, he showed us what he was going to use, but that is not what they are putting in.

Yes I am at fault for not getting every single item listed but a mans word should be worth something.

I am just trying to warn others to beware of him.

[johnsurin]

I might be considering building in the next year or so, if the exchange rate gets better, is he Thai builder?

John.....

[wildoates]

I might be considering building in the next year or so, if the exchange rate gets better, is he Thai builder?

John.....

Yes

[egg6447]

I might be considering building in the next year or so, if the exchange rate gets better, is he Thai builder?

John.....

Yes

have i got this right?, you're paying 16000 bt a mtr for a house biuld. ah maybe you have two floors x 100 mtr area. that would seem more like it.

[tso310]

I might be considering building in the next year or so, if the exchange rate gets better, is he Thai builder?

John.....

Yes

have i got this right?, you're paying 16000 bt a mtr for a house biuld. ah maybe you have two floors x 100 mtr area. that would seem more like it.

No he's saying 1.6 million for a 100sq m / 1000 sq ft single storey place. Without knowing what is included it seems a bit high from what I being told about material prices at the moment.

[wildoates]

it is a 100 sq m and yes it is high with what he is trying to do. Whe it was laid out with all the good items it was OK, now that he trying to go cheaper on everything, it is high. yes that is 16000 baht per sq m. Now he is saying no kitchen but counter top, and I buy the hot water heaters, I pay for the electic line to the house, I pay for all the "extra" I keep asking what the hel_l did I pay for to start with?

[farangconnection]

Plenty of Farangs are getting ripped off by Thai builders in the Surin area. There is only one to go to ,to make sure of a good job, Alan the Builder. He charges a little bit more than the average Thai, but the job gets done exactly as the customer wants. Now, it could be that other builders in the Surin area know Alan's rates and have raised their prices accordingly to do shabby work.Two guys in the last three months have turned down Alan after seeing his plans & prices. BOTH have come back and said " I wish we had stuck with you, now it is going to cost us a lot more"

So there you go. A lot of Farangs like the idea of building a house in Thailand for next to nothing, but please remember. If you use a thai builder you must watch over them 24/7.

[Dave the Dude]

Plenty of Farangs are getting ripped off by Thai builders in the Surin area. There is only one to go to ,to make sure of a good job, Alan the Builder. He charges a little bit more than the average Thai, but the job gets done exactly as the customer wants. Now, it could be that other builders in the Surin area know Alan's rates and have raised their prices accordingly to do shabby work.Two guys in the last three months have turned down Alan after seeing his plans & prices. BOTH have come back and said " I wish we had stuck with you, now it is going to cost us a lot more"

So there you go. A lot of Farangs like the idea of building a house in Thailand for next to nothing, but please remember. If you use a thai builder you must watch over them 24/7.

Good advice, Mr Mountain (as always)

Dave

[bergen]

Plenty of Farangs are getting ripped off by Thai builders in the Surin area. There is only one to go to ,to make sure of a good job, Alan the Builder. He charges a little bit more than the average Thai, but the job gets done exactly as the customer wants. Now, it could be that other builders in the Surin area know Alan's rates and have raised their prices accordingly to do shabby work.Two guys in the last three months have turned down Alan after seeing his plans & prices. BOTH have come back and said " I wish we had stuck with you, now it is going to cost us a lot more"

So there you go. A lot of Farangs like the idea of building a house in Thailand for next to nothing, but please remember. If you use a thai builder you must watch over them 24/7.

And pay the builder little by little, and never total amount before the job is finished to your satisfaction!

Edited April 27, 2009 by bergen

[farangconnection]

There is something that I must add to my above post.

There are a lot of 70/80 year old Farangs, that pick up a 17-20 year old beauty, fall desperately in love and build the girl and himself, the house that dreams are made from. Now then, the builder, which the Thai girl ' has heard is good', is in a lot of cases part of the family circle, and the plans which the Farang has put in has already been scrutinised by her family and altered accordingly to more suit their needs. I'm not saying this happens in all cases, but certainly a great deal more where the 'handsome man' is 60 or more years older than his bride to be.

[wildoates]

Understand, and no I did not give him all up front, it was in draws, but the big issues is with the final finish work, and even if I kept the final payment it would not be enough to re-do what needs to be fixed. I am waiting to see what he plans on doing about what I am objecting to. I understand that he is starting a new farang house within the next few weeks. Just trying to give folks some heads up

[Asianrider]

Any kind of building work with a Thai or Farang builder you need to prescribe everything as much as possible to prevent disappointment at the end.

[kalasin]

Even in Denmark people are getting fuc_ked by builders. Even though they have a contact written describing every single nut in the building.

So a written contract is no quarantee for nothing. And even before it would go to court, the company will close, and the builder start up a new one.

I would always recommend recommendations from others with simular houses. Where you can use those finsished houses as reference.

Of course you can choose an english speaking builder, and that might be an good idea for many. But really that in itself is no a quarantee for succes. And you will pay a lot more for the english speaking solution.

And for big decisions like housebuilding, I would be carefull with recommendations from companies, that link to each other. Not saying it is wrong, just be carefull with those advises.

[wildoates]

Agree, looked at three of his house that were built or being built he pointed out the nice features that he did. I think some of his problem here is that he has played in the money pot and is short now, he spent some on his house, thinking he was getting a loan, and his loan fell through. But I am holding ground, only problem is now he is not returning phone calls or emails, work is still going on, but he is not addressing my concerns just ignoring them

[Dave the Dude]

Hi Wildoats

Have you got a forceful Thai speaker who can carefully explain to the guy 1) whats wrong 2) what you & he intends to do about it.

Sorry to ask such a simple question but (unfortunetly) I have found it very easy to think Thai's understand a problem when in reality your just ignored (as a ferang).

During our house/shop build, I am pleased to say my wife scared the builder 'shitless' and thats just the way I liked it . Job was finished and he IS NOW a personal friend.

This is business and there is 'no room' for sentiments or family members getting treats. If all else fails, tell him you have not paid him to build HIS house and you are going to take Legal action against him.

Good luck

Dave

[Farma]

Early last year a close friend, the wife of a Thai builder, approached us for a short term loan. They had received a notice to attend court over a dispute about a house her husband was building.

The Thai house owner had refused to pay the final installment for the house being built by her husband and they needed the money to take the house up to the standard the house owner requested prior to paying the final installment.

The builder and his wife were very worried about attending court and wanted to get everything in order to avoid a court appearance.

Wildoats maybe a letter from a lawyer to the builder might help in your situation.

[wildoates]

Hi Wildoats

Have you got a forceful Thai speaker who can carefully explain to the guy 1) whats wrong 2) what you & he intends to do about it.

Sorry to ask such a simple question but (unfortunetly) I have found it very easy to think Thai's understand a problem when in reality your just ignored (as a ferang).

During our house/shop build, I am pleased to say my wife scared the builder 'shitless' and thats just the way I liked it . Job was finished and he IS NOW a personal friend.

This is business and there is 'no room' for sentiments or family members getting treats. If all else fails, tell him you have not paid him to build HIS house and you are going to take Legal action against him.

Good luck

Dave

Understand, trying to get the wife fired up, but he won't even return her calls,

[wildoates]

Early last year a close friend, the wife of a Thai builder, approached us for a short term loan. They had received a notice to attend court over a dispute about a house her husband was building.

The Thai house owner had refused to pay the final installment for the house being built by her husband and they needed the money to take the house up to the standard the house owner requested prior to paying the final installment.

The builder and his wife were very worried about attending court and wanted to get everything in order to avoid a court appearance.

Wildoats maybe a letter from a lawyer to the builder might help in your situation.

Agree I am almost to that point, I don't think he would want it to go that far, And now with him not returning calls, emails. When he does come to the house to look, he calls the leader to make sure we are not there I have not gotten nasty with him, have been polite, but firm on what I expect and what we agreed upon.

[kamalabob2]

Have you mailed a REGISTERED letter in Thai, that explains what your concerns are with some sort of deadline? Was there a particular builders merchant such as Best Home, Modern IQ or one of the Home Marts you/he bought the majority of the building materials? Do you have a "relationship" and lines of communication with the owner of the builders merchant? Perhaps they can act as a liaison to help you resolve your situation. Especially if the builder is still in debt to a particular builders merchant. It has to be

"Win Win" for the Thai contractor to finish in the manner you deserve. My wife warned me that many Thai "tradesmen" will "walk away" rather than confront a difficult situation.

I'll go on record as saying that EVERY Expat I ever met in Thailand who had a home built, even by the so called "major builders" had "issues of concern" towards the "finish work". Maybe Thai building contracts do not "budget" construction funds properly, maybe we are more aware of "finish work" than basic early steps of the construction, but the "pace" sure seems to slow down towards the final stages.

I am not sure where you are with your builder in relationship to what you have paid and what he has not yet done, but it might be worth your time to meet in person with Khun Muk who UNDERSTANDS and speaks English at Surin Home Mart "over the tracks" leaving Surin heading towards ChomPhra. She has always treated me fairly and has helped several times when I had a "misunderstanding" about why certain things were being done in a particular manner when building our home. The same Thai general contractor we hired to build our home in Buriram province is now building near the original "Department Store" in downtown Surin. It could give you a point of reference on how her finish work is compared to your builder's finish work.

I think a "general contractor" is only as good as the "sub contractors" they hire. Most of the sub contractors who built our home I could recommend, but not all the subs were professional in my opinion. At least you are not in Hau Hin where contractors can take a "different" approach to disgruntled clients.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sarah-Oxley-t253626.html

I hope your home is finished in a proper manner and at least your roof is on prior to the rainy season.

[Dave the Dude]

Agree I am almost to that point, I don't think he would want it to go that far, And now with him not returning calls, emails. When he does come to the house to look, he calls the leader to make sure we are not there I have not gotten nasty with him, have been polite, but firm on what I expect and what we agreed upon.

I seriously think its time you show him that you are not a ferang ATM.

He is avoiding you for a very good reason.You are funding his other works and he knows it. Legal action is required IMHO.

ACT NOW OR LOSE OUT.

Dave

[wildoates]

Agree I am almost to that point, I don't think he would want it to go that far, And now with him not returning calls, emails. When he does come to the house to look, he calls the leader to make sure we are not there I have not gotten nasty with him, have been polite, but firm on what I expect and what we agreed upon.

I seriously think its time you show him that you are not a ferang ATM.

He is avoiding you for a very good reason.You are funding his other works and he knows it. Legal action is required IMHO.

ACT NOW OR LOSE OUT.

Dave

I think you are right. I think I will tell him I will do a full audit of the funds, and supplies on where everything is going. Get so legal involvement to get him to do what he should be doing.

Thanks to everyone on the advice.

[Maestro]

Wildoates is doing the right thing by not naming the person in question, as this would be against forum rules. Defamation/libel laws are different in Thailand and one can be found guilty even if what one says is true.

I thought this site was hosted in Singapore not Thailand ?

A poster can still get sued in Thailand for slandering a person in Thailand. It does not matter where the website is hosted.

--

Maestro

[barryofthailand]

There is something that I must add to my above post.

There are a lot of 70/80 year old Farangs, that pick up a 17-20 year old beauty, fall desperately in love and build the girl and himself, the house that dreams are made from. Now then, the builder, which the Thai girl ' has heard is good', is in a lot of cases part of the family circle, and the plans which the Farang has put in has already been scrutinised by her family and altered accordingly to more suit their needs. I'm not saying this happens in all cases, but certainly a great deal more where the 'handsome man' is 60 or more years older than his bride to be.

Absolutely. Their are lots of stupid farangs in Thailand.

Barry

[PatinBKk]

Maybe a little off topic, the wifey has just mentioned that someone in the Lumduan area has had to trash the newly built house as they didnt have a building permit......looks like Tessabaan are enforcing this requirement....any others herad anything similar