Norwegian Woman And American Woman Die Of Unknown Causes on Koh Phi Phi

[SOTIRIOS]

Hi,

initially it was reported that the 2 couples stayed in the SAME ROOM .......

Can you please tell us WHICH HOTEL???

What kind of oversight is this? Should we 'keep the reputation of this establishment intact'???

Food poisoning, or air conditioner....I DO NOT WANT MYSELF OR FAMILY OR FRIENDS STAYING THERE...

WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE HOTEL IN QUESTION???

Thank you,

S

[Soupdragon]

Edited May 7, 2009 by Soupdragon

[lopburi3]

The Phuket death does not seem to have anything to do with this thread. She had just checked out of hotel in extremely upset manner and there is suspicion she either took her life or was robbed.

[Dario]

I didn't know that another thread was opened somewhere else, sorry for this! Usually I get an email message when such news comes up, but I didn't get one yet. Apparently not so important news ...

[Samuian]

now cyanide - extremely mysterious!

heard it from the grapevine that there is a custom to "fish" with arsenic....

but cyanide from the a/c...?

Not correct. Arsenic acts much too slowly to catch fish. Cyanide is used for illegal fishing around coral reefs, yes.

Thanks for correcting this!

as I wrote... hearsay - however the much better - it only came to mind with the mentioning of poisoning

I always wondered how the cyanide - if it kills the fish, after wards effects the diner!?

But now the news tell us that there was no cyanide...

We'll see - terrible for everyone involved!

Edited May 7, 2009 by Samuian

[phuketrex]

The Gazette waits 4 days before printing anything then still gets it wrong>>>

The following day, the same room was rented out to two Norwegian women, both of whom developed the same symptoms.

In fact the 2 Norwegians were staying in room 5 at the same time as the 2 Americans were next door in room 4 according to Ryan Kells' posts.

Edited May 7, 2009 by phuketrex

[sriracha john]

Hi,

initially it was reported that the 2 couples stayed in the SAME ROOM .......

Can you please tell us WHICH HOTEL???

What kind of oversight is this? Should we 'keep the reputation of this establishment intact'???

Food poisoning, or air conditioner....I DO NOT WANT MYSELF OR FAMILY OR FRIENDS STAYING THERE...

WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE HOTEL IN QUESTION???

Thank you,

S

Calm down. The hotel name has been posted a half dozen times already. It's Laleena House... and it's closed.... so no one is staying there.

Edited May 7, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

MODS: Don't delete this post as this is not hearsay but has just been reported on Thai TV Channel 3!

Thai TV channel 3 just showed footage of a young Swiss woman found dead on the beach in Phuket. My wife translated that it was said that the woman checked out of the hotel Andaman Princess yesterday.

It seems that Foreigners are dying now on a daily basis in Thailand.

Anyone knows more about this?

covered in different thread, see

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Swiss-Touris...ea-t263333.html

I didn't know that another thread was opened somewhere else, sorry for this! Usually I get an email message when such news comes up, but I didn't get one yet. Apparently not so important news ...

Calm down. See above.

[faranginbkk]

now cyanide - extremely mysterious!

heard it from the grapevine that there is a custom to "fish" with arsenic....

but cyanide from the a/c...?

Not correct. Arsenic acts much too slowly to catch fish. Cyanide is used for illegal fishing around coral reefs, yes.

Thanks for correcting this!

as I wrote... hearsay - however the much better - it only came to mind with the mentioning of poisoning

I always wondered how the cyanide - if it kills the fish, after wards effects the diner!?

But now the news tell us that there was no cyanide...

We'll see - terrible for everyone involved!

Cyanide kills animals, including humans, in seconds or minutes. That's why it can be used to paralyze or kill the fish fast. It is normally ejected from some kind of pump directly onto the coral reefs to kill the fish. At the same time though, it kills the corals and other life on it!!

This practice is illegal, of course.

Most of the cyanide is probably washed away before the fish is cooked and served.....

[Electra]

Results from his fiancé's autopsy aren't expected for another four to six weeks.

- KGO-TV News (San Francisco, California, USA) / 2009-05-07

====================================================

Video News Link of above:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=n...&id=6800461

This timescale has been reported elsewhere. Why does it take so long?

[brahmburgers]

There's mention that cyanide was found in one victim's stomach. Does cyanide burn? Also, chemicals in food don't get in to a body's system until they pass through the acids of the stomach - and on to the colon and other digestive glands. It would seem to me that anything found in the stomach alone would be not necessarily be suspect, unless it was something that caused acute burning sensations, and there's been no report of that among the victims. Incidentally, I have twice been poisoned by bad oranges (black fungus). The symtoms were acute chemical burning sensation in the left side of the colon. Pain so intense, couldn't help but vomit repeatedly (nothing but spittle came out). However, in each instance, the acute pain left in an instant after about an hour - so it's doubtful it applies to what the Phi Phi victims experienced - although constant vomiting was reported in both Phi Phi scenarios.

I'd venture that an enema might have at least caused relief of symptoms. A cheapo, but effective, enema bag can be bought in some pharmacies in Thailand. It can be self-administered. Not pretty, but certainly better than a painful death - and can't do any harm. I suggest every traveler carry one with them - weighs about as much, and just a slight bit larger than a pack of cigarettes.

Edited May 7, 2009 by brahmburgers

[brahmburgers]

Calm down. The hotel name has been posted a half dozen times already. It's Laleena House... and it's closed.... so no one is staying there.

Within the course or two redundant threads (one in T.Visa's Phuket news) - this is first mention I've heard of the guest house being closed. Whew.... good to hear.

[sriracha john]

Room 5 (left) and Room 4 on the ground floor at Laleena, open to a walkway on the young people's holiday island of Phi Phi.

Phi Phi Mystery Deaths: Room Maid Gives Account

Tears were flowing on the holiday island of Phi Phi today over the tragic deaths of two tourists, a Norwegian and an American, both women.

Doing the crying was no friend or relative, but the owner of the guesthouse where the two women fell sick, and later died not far away in the local hospital.

Many questions still remain about Rooms 4 and 5 at the Laleena Guesthouse, where the naked occupants, two couples, suffered from some strange malaise that killed two of them at the weekend.

The guesthouse owner, Rat Chuped, opened Laleena a year before the 2004 tsunami swept over Phi Phi, killing more than 800 people.

- Phuket Wan / 2009-05-07

Edited May 7, 2009 by sbk
cut to 1st 3 sentences and a link--sbk

[Electra]

The fiance is seemingly convinced the airconditioning was somehow at fault.

Refridgerant coolants found in a/c systems can, in a state of decomposition and when exposed to naked flame or other intense heat, produce phosgene, a highly toxic gas that can cause death between 2 - 24 hrs of inhalation. Symptoms involve nausea and vomiting and although there may be a temporary remission over a short period the full effects can result in death caused by internal suffocation because of pulmonary oedema. Short gasping breaths and discoloration of the skin caused by the body's inability to get oxygen also occurs. These signs may well fit the facts as observed by the poor chap but such a forensic study is of course bad practice.

Still, it is a theory nevertheless but I would have thought an immediate autopsy would have established whether or not it could have been a cause of death.

[VSteve]

All the best to the families. So sad. I have an American friend down there right now, my heart stopped when I heard this. Thankfully she's ok.

What is going on in this country lately?

[sriracha john]

Seattle woman dies from unknown causes in Thailand

BANGKOK -- Two young women tourists, one from Seattle and the other from Norway, have died after suddenly falling ill within hours of each other this past weekend at the same guest house in southern Thailand.

Thai police said Thursday they did not know the cause of death of the two, who were staying on Koh Phi Phi, a popular island destination for budget travelers. Theories include food or alcohol poisoning and toxic fumes in their bungalows, but nothing has been proved.

The mysterious deaths, especially if not soon explained, could deal another blow to Thailand's tourism industry, which has been battered by the world economic downturn and domestic political unrest that saw Bangkok's two airports closed down by demonstrators for a week last year and rioting in the Thai capital.

The American victim has been identified by her family as Jill St. Onge, 27, a bartender and artist from Seattle. She died on Sunday.

Norwegian media and the Web newspaper Andaman Times , which covers southern Thailand, identified the Norwegian woman as Julie Michelle Bergheim, 22. She died Monday.

Both had been staying at the Laleena Guesthouse. Another 19-year-old Norwegian woman staying with Bergheim also fell ill with the same symptoms, but survived.

"One of them was vomiting so the guesthouse owners and one of their friends rushed her to the hospital on Phi Phi," said police Capt. Pantanan Santhong. "Another one later had the same symptoms. They died at the hospital. Doctors said it was due to dehydration and shock."

"Right now, we do not have any further information on what happened and how it happened," he said. We are investigating."

The bodies of both victims have been taken to Bangkok for autopsies but no results were available.

A number of theories have been floated about what could have caused the deaths. They include poisoning from food or alcohol and energy drinks, tainted water, cyanide poisoning from an unknown source, carbon monoxide poisoning and toxic fumes sucked in through the air conditioning - both victims were staying in air-conditioned rooms.

"I'm sorry about the lady tourists. but it is not my fault," Asan Buntam, the guest house owner, told The Associated Press by phone. "It was the same thing, their stomachs hurt and they were throwing up. ... I think it was because everyone went out drinking and partying."

The guest house is a 10-room backpacker hotel on the island where air-conditioned rooms like the ones both tourists stayed in cost about 600 baht ($17) a night.

St. Onge had been on a three-month tour of Southeast Asia with her fiance Ryan Kells, according to a blog established in her memory by her family. It cited his account of her death.

"From what we understand (and this most likely will be refined as more information becomes available) Jill had a mild case of food sickness. Pretty typical in Thailand and no cause for real concern as it happened a few times before. Jill went to her room to rest for a spell. Ryan stayed out to get lunch and check the Internet.

"When he returned a couple hours later he found Jill in pretty bad shape. Jill said she needed to go to the hospital. She was so weak he carried her until he found a cart. Ryan was screaming in the streets for help as she was deteriorating fast. They got help from a great guy named Per. He helped Ryan get Jill to the clinic. Unfortunately by the time she arrived she had stopped breathing. They worked on her for around 45 min. but to no avail. It happened very fast."

Fewer details were available about Bergheim, who Norwegian media identified as coming from Drammen, near Oslo.

"I don't know if it was something she ate or if it was because she went out to party," guest house owner Asan said. "She came back at night and the next morning, the cleaning staff knocked on her door to clean. They saw her throwing up and my brother took her to the hospital."

- Associated Press / 2009-05-07

[faranginbkk]

Actually, in the Norwegian newspapers, they mention that no cyanide has been found in the victim.

It may be a possibility that there is some fault with the aircon as mentioned above, but it is probably too early to say. We have to wait for the autopsy reports.

[nikster]

VG again doing everything they can to scare Norwegians from travelling to Phi Phi.....

And why shouldn't they? I would not go to Phi Phi now, and I live in the LOS... why? Because I know that this sort of thing is not co-incidence. It has to do with the mafia running the place...

[andy778]

Calm down. The hotel name has been posted a half dozen times already. It's Laleena House... and it's closed.... so no one is staying there.

Within the course or two redundant threads (one in T.Visa's Phuket news) - this is first mention I've heard of the guest house being closed. Whew.... good to hear.

The guesthouse re-opened today after being closed for 3 days, according to VG.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=563015

[annabel]

I have translated the latest news from the Norwegian newspaper VG . (Sorry about any misspellings)

Thank you very much for your news post, balo... (which you did very well, btw)

This is a perplexing situation on Phi Phi now with four recent deaths there (including the unidentified man in the other current thread) with some of them possibly related, but at the same time, perhaps none of them are.

Hopefully today's autopsy can shed some light on at least the American's cause of death.

Please continue to update us all as you find additional Norwegian news and thank you again.

Is there any information anywhere as to how the surviving Norwegian woman was medically treated being that she is now in good shape and survived ??

How did they know what to treat her with ...? What medication did they give her as they stated that she was also in very bad shape when admitted ....???

[nikster]

Still, it is a theory nevertheless but I would have thought an immediate autopsy would have established whether or not it could have been a cause of death.

That would assume that the people doing the autopsy were first and foremost concerned with finding the cause. As it is, the police once again seems to be first and foremost concerned with explaining it away and keeping it under the carpet any way they can. As they do.

Unless/until the famous doctor with the funny hair gets involved, we won't know what caused this.

[faranginbkk]

I have translated the latest news from the Norwegian newspaper VG . (Sorry about any misspellings)

Thank you very much for your news post, balo... (which you did very well, btw)

This is a perplexing situation on Phi Phi now with four recent deaths there (including the unidentified man in the other current thread) with some of them possibly related, but at the same time, perhaps none of them are.

Hopefully today's autopsy can shed some light on at least the American's cause of death.

Please continue to update us all as you find additional Norwegian news and thank you again.

Is there any information anywhere as to how the surviving Norwegian woman was medically treated being that she is now in good shape and survived ??

How did they know what to treat her with ...? What medication did they give her as they stated that she was also in very bad shape when admitted ....???

My understanding, if it is correct, is that she might have died from dehydration due to the violent vomiting. What caused the vomiting is the question. The surviving girl was probably treated for dehydration in time.

[annabel]

What is the owners name "Rat Chuped" or as mentioned in another post " Asan Buntam"....?

And Is there any information anywhere as to how the surviving Norwegian woman was medically treated being that she is now in good shape and survived ??

How did they know what to treat her with ...? What medication did they give her as they stated that she was also in very bad shape when admitted ....???

The husband or fiance of the American girls said he was also feeling sick but didn't spend as much time in the room ....and he survived and doesn't even sound like he received any kind of treatment whatsoever...very strange ...??

[andy778]

[quote

Does anyone know how close the apartment/rooms could be to the treatment plant? What type of treatment is it? Waste or drinking?

If it was from the treatment, they need to shut it down right away, because the people running it obviously don't have a clue.

The plant is reported to be 20 meteres from the guesthouse, and for waste-water

[makwaijai]

I would like to just say...the symptoms of food poisening do include vomitting but one usually does not die within 24 hours from vomitting or food poisening. If it is severe food poisening, called botulism, the symptoms are more then vomitting..it all goes in stages and vomitting is in the first stages, as the poisening continues in the blood stream, the body then goes into respiratory problems, severe fever, and esculating to coma type reaction.

However, I have been to many places in Thailand with my boyfriend who always seemed to get very asthmatic when the air con. was on for a long time. Some rooms you could visually see the dust coming from the air con, because the filters were never changed.

I really dont think this is about food poisening, I think this is about the room and the air...Unfortunately, our bodies immune systems handle everything specific to our bodies. The boyfriend not getting severely sick only means his body was able to handle the illness in a different way.. Another thought is did anyone drink water in the room? Unfortunately, some places do their own filtering and rebottling on site, not understanding foreign people are not able to drink water that is not highly filtered. Once again, getting sick..

My thai boyfriend can drink water from the tap, easily, I do the same and I am really sick...

I send my love and compassion to the families who are in such a time of wanting answers. If at all possible, they may consider to bring their own people in to the investigation.

[srisatch]

I have lived in Thailand for 15 years. Earlier this year I became sick in Chiang Mai wth similar symptoms to these cases. N o hospital..Ram Lanna etc with multiple blood tests could identify the virus/bacteria. I am so sick I have come back to London. Pints of blood. Blood tests...nothing...not hiv!! Not HEP abcde etc Now everything in the Tropical Disease Hospital at UCH. Nausea all day every day...not fun...but at least I am not dead!!

[MaiChai]

I am amazed that the Thai authorities are going to tell us the cause of death in two weeks time when really we should know now. The reason I say this is because there is a danger that someone else could suffer the same symptoms or even die. I mean there is a risk that it will happen again. It really sounds that the Thais want to hush this up so that it does not grab the headlines and affect tourism. They should be more responsible and act. If we had the facts there would be no need to speculate...

[balo]

VG again with some interesting new information , I have translated most of the important parts.

http://www.vg.no/pub/skrivervennlig.hbs?artid=563030

The doctor at the clinic where the ill tourists received treatment, suspects that the Norwegians and Americans were sick of a toxic gas.

VG Nett have been in contact with doctor Buncha Kakhomh at the clinic in Phi Phi , where the sick tourists first received medical assistance. He suspects that a bio-treatment plant at the guest house the Norwegians and Americans stayed in, is the cause of the deaths.

- The bio plant is set up to clean waste water, and is located only 20 meters away from the rooms they lived in, Kakhomh told VG Nett.

According to him it must have formed a toxic gas , which may be the reason the four tourists felt very sick.

The Norwegians and Americans stayed in rooms next to eachother at the Laleena guest house when they became ill. Within few hours two of them died after being acutely sick.

The doctor claims he got a written statement from the Norwegian girl that survived. She explains what happened in the hours before her friend died.

"She said that she noticed a strong smell inside the room the day they were sick. It smelled so strongly that she had to hide under the bed sheet , according to the doctor . "

VG Nett have failed to get in contact with the survivor, the 20 year old girl.

This information is very similar to what Ryan Kells, the fiancé of the deceased American told Phuket Wan. He told them he noticed a chemical smell in the room when they checked in. A few hours later his girlfriend was very ill, and died in his arms on the way to the hospital.

- It was our first room with air conditioning for about a month. I felt that the smell came from a type of gas, says Kells to Phuket Wan.

Kells have previously speculated if they were sick of anything from the air-condition system, but a doctor denied this. He believe they would have had other symptoms than the chronic vomiting and violent stomach pains.

- I believe it was what was in the room that made us sick, says Kells.

Edited May 7, 2009 by balo

[sriracha john]

Mysterious tourist deaths in South

Authorities are investigating the strange death of two women tourists on Ko Phi Phi last weekend.

Initial speculation from police has been that the women - one from Norway and the other American - may have suffered food poisoning.

Jill Sheree St. Onge, 27, from Seattle, and Julie Michelle Bergheim, 22, died within hours of one another and both reportedly suffered severe stomach pains prior to dying.

The women stayed in adjacent rooms in the Laleena Guest House, which has been closed while their deaths are investigated and autopsies conducted.

St. Onge's fiance, American Russell Kells has been quoted as saying he was struck by a chemical smell when he entered the room on Saturday.

However, there has since been speculation that the women may have eaten cassava that was not properly cooked. Police say they have yet to get results of autopsies.

-- The Nation 2009-05-08

[moe666]

A lot of inaccurate information about Legionaires on this forum. I worked as a Industrial Water Treatment Tech. for more than 10 years and part of our job was to treat cooling towers. The Legionaires Bacteria has to be transported in water droplets and these droplets have to be small enough for you to inhale them.

In original case of this in Phildeliphia the cooling tower mist was discharging over the front door to the hotel. The Legionairs who contacted the diease, all had compromised immune systems caused from lack of sleep, drinking and old age. they were walking in and out of the front door thru the mist every day breathing in the bacteria.

Another case in New Orleans happened in the produce section of a super market, the misters that spray water over the vegetables and fruit was determined to be the source of the outbreak.

You cannot get Legionaires by drinking water with the bacteria in it and penacillian is the most effective treatment. As most A/C units in these guest houses are split units and no cooling towers are used Legionaires is more than likely not an issue.