Patpong Trader Fracas

[Tango7]

Here's my take ..... If a tourist buys a copy watch , handbag whatever how the hel_l can that affect or infringe on revenue from the original supplier or company.

The tourist is not going to pay hundreds of dollars for an original rolex , gucci or any other brand. So what is the big deal.

Also , the vendor makes his money, he employs thais, the copy factory employs thais who take money home to put food on the table.

I for one am happy to buy a fake as I will never be able to buy the real thing and even if I had enough money I woundn't waste it on name brands anyway.

If a poor person wants to buy a copy or fake then who is it hurting ???

I hope the Gucci's , Valentinos ect.. go bust.... good on the fakes

Tell me if i'm wrong !

Cheers..

steve, while I tend to hold the opinion that extortionist fee practices of certain software companies has lead to the huge counterfit problem its facing, stealing is stealing - call it what you want.

I am not sure what business you are in but if you had someone knocking off your patented / copywrited products and services - you wouldn't be happy.

I don't disgagree as to the 'immediate' commercial harm in having some tourist buy a fake rolex will have on the company - it doesn't make it right does it?

The other day - I went to the licenced Man Utd store in Lad Prao and paid over the top price for a pair of shorts. I could have gotten something very similar on the street for 1/8th the cost I am sure. I chose not too. Why, it wasn't the difference in price - it's the fact that I wanted authentic garment that was hopefully produced in some properly run factory with ethical practices. I have my reasons - I am sure those who buy copies have their reasons.

Are we at this stage in the world the of commerce where R&D and brand building are worth nothing though?

anyways, the actions I would guess are window dressing yet again.

Bad money pushing out the good...

Let's look at it this way:

You buy exclusive goods so that you can: 1. show you can afford it 2. Have goods that others can't afford and thus become more exclusive

If counterfeiting allows people to appear to have a real item, this ultimately reduces the "value" of the original item.

If you see aperson with a Rolex now, do you think it's real or that it's a fake ? Personally, I assume it's a fake and this means fewer people will want to buy a real Rolex because they'll have people assume it's a fake and then defend the fact that's it's real.

So, the fake watch is driving out the authentic watch. People now look for other, more exclusive watches that haven't yet been pirated to the extreme.

Another case I can think of is Burberry. It was originally thought to be the domain of the rich and famous until football hooligans started to wear Burberry baseball caps and scarfs.

I bet the Burberry executives didn't rub their hands in glee at the "increase in sales", I bet they sat in shock horror as their market dynamics shifted and they lost the kind of customers they were after; i.e the ones that could afford Burberry outfits and not just baseball caps and scarfs.

No self respecting hi-so would wear something a football hooligan is also wearing.

Bad money drives out good.

[wrecker]

It might all be part of the new tourist strategy. " we love to have your dollars, but do not stay too long and buy only in the shops controlled by us". I am afraid that this is another example of an incompetent government. If you like to crack down start in places like MBK or Panthip at least you do not get too much negative press abroad.

[steven100]

Here's my take ..... If a tourist buys a copy watch , handbag whatever how the hel_l can that affect or infringe on revenue from the original supplier or company.

The tourist is not going to pay hundreds of dollars for an original rolex , gucci or any other brand. So what is the big deal.

Also , the vendor makes his money, he employs thais, the copy factory employs thais who take money home to put food on the table.

I for one am happy to buy a fake as I will never be able to buy the real thing and even if I had enough money I woundn't waste it on name brands anyway.

If a poor person wants to buy a copy or fake then who is it hurting ???

I hope the Gucci's , Valentinos ect.. go bust.... good on the fakes

Tell me if i'm wrong !

Cheers..

While I respect your comment, I disagree ...

If I want to buy an original I will.... end of storey , if I cannot afford I will buy the copy !! The US has alot to answer for and I for one would not even go there even if you gave me a free ticket.

What about the pirated goods the US sells as mentioned in the earlier message !!

What about all the one rule for us , one rule for them ...

sorry , it just don't cut it ..

cheers...

steve, while I tend to hold the opinion that extortionist fee practices of certain software companies has lead to the huge counterfit problem its facing, stealing is stealing - call it what you want.

I am not sure what business you are in but if you had someone knocking off your patented / copywrited products and services - you wouldn't be happy.

I don't disgagree as to the 'immediate' commercial harm in having some tourist buy a fake rolex will have on the company - it doesn't make it right does it?

The other day - I went to the licenced Man Utd store in Lad Prao and paid over the top price for a pair of shorts. I could have gotten something very similar on the street for 1/8th the cost I am sure. I chose not too. Why, it wasn't the difference in price - it's the fact that I wanted authentic garment that was hopefully produced in some properly run factory with ethical practices. I have my reasons - I am sure those who buy copies have their reasons.

Are we at this stage in the world the of commerce where R&D and brand building are worth nothing though?

anyways, the actions I would guess are window dressing yet again.

Bad money pushing out the good...

Let's look at it this way:

You buy exclusive goods so that you can: 1. show you can afford it 2. Have goods that others can't afford and thus become more exclusive

If counterfeiting allows people to appear to have a real item, this ultimately reduces the "value" of the original item.

If you see aperson with a Rolex now, do you think it's real or that it's a fake ? Personally, I assume it's a fake and this means fewer people will want to buy a real Rolex because they'll have people assume it's a fake and then defend the fact that's it's real.

So, the fake watch is driving out the authentic watch. People now look for other, more exclusive watches that haven't yet been pirated to the extreme.

Another case I can think of is Burberry. It was originally thought to be the domain of the rich and famous until football hooligans started to wear Burberry baseball caps and scarfs.

I bet the Burberry executives didn't rub their hands in glee at the "increase in sales", I bet they sat in shock horror as their market dynamics shifted and they lost the kind of customers they were after; i.e the ones that could afford Burberry outfits and not just baseball caps and scarfs.

No self respecting hi-so would wear something a football hooligan is also wearing.

Bad money drives out good.

[sadako]

Dont know if it is related . I just come back from running in Lumpini Park an hour ago the corner of Rama 4 / Silom Road junction is blocked to traffic by the army with riot gear there are literally hundreds of army and police down there , MRT access also blocked on the Silom Road side .

In Lumpini Park itself there are army and police trucks and buses and many army are setting up tents for the night in the park .

[BigSnake]

Yes sir, some real angry peoples. we saw it on TV 9. Things got a bit NASTY at time.

[steven100]

Here's my take ..... If a tourist buys a copy watch , handbag whatever how the hel_l can that affect or infringe on revenue from the original supplier or company.

The tourist is not going to pay hundreds of dollars for an original rolex , gucci or any other brand. So what is the big deal.

Also , the vendor makes his money, he employs thais, the copy factory employs thais who take money home to put food on the table.

I for one am happy to buy a fake as I will never be able to buy the real thing and even if I had enough money I woundn't waste it on name brands anyway.

If a poor person wants to buy a copy or fake then who is it hurting ???

I hope the Gucci's , Valentinos ect.. go bust.... good on the fakes

Tell me if i'm wrong !

Cheers..

steve, while I tend to hold the opinion that extortionist fee practices of certain software companies has lead to the huge counterfit problem its facing, stealing is stealing - call it what you want.

I am not sure what business you are in but if you had someone knocking off your patented / copywrited products and services - you wouldn't be happy.

I don't disgagree as to the 'immediate' commercial harm in having some tourist buy a fake rolex will have on the company - it doesn't make it right does it?

The other day - I went to the licenced Man Utd store in Lad Prao and paid over the top price for a pair of shorts. I could have gotten something very similar on the street for 1/8th the cost I am sure. I chose not too. Why, it wasn't the difference in price - it's the fact that I wanted authentic garment that was hopefully produced in some properly run factory with ethical practices. I have my reasons - I am sure those who buy copies have their reasons.

Are we at this stage in the world the of commerce where R&D and brand building are worth nothing though?

anyways, the actions I would guess are window dressing yet again.

Bad money pushing out the good...

Let's look at it this way:

You buy exclusive goods so that you can: 1. show you can afford it 2. Have goods that others can't afford and thus become more exclusive

If counterfeiting allows people to appear to have a real item, this ultimately reduces the "value" of the original item.

If you see aperson with a Rolex now, do you think it's real or that it's a fake ? Personally, I assume it's a fake and this means fewer people will want to buy a real Rolex because they'll have people assume it's a fake and then defend the fact that's it's real.

So, the fake watch is driving out the authentic watch. People now look for other, more exclusive watches that haven't yet been pirated to the extreme.

Another case I can think of is Burberry. It was originally thought to be the domain of the rich and famous until football hooligans started to wear Burberry baseball caps and scarfs.

I bet the Burberry executives didn't rub their hands in glee at the "increase in sales", I bet they sat in shock horror as their market dynamics shifted and they lost the kind of customers they were after; i.e the ones that could afford Burberry outfits and not just baseball caps and scarfs.

No self respecting hi-so would wear something a football hooligan is also wearing.

Bad money drives out good.

As I mentioned earlier , I completely disagree ...

so you would sooner see the thai vendor go out of business but the yank is fine .... he got his medal ..ha..stopped those dam_n pirated goods... and i don't care about everyone else...

well ... sorry ..but thats BS...and good luck to the vendors....

cheers

[buddyholly1]

I hope the Gucci's , Valentinos ect.. go bust.... good on the fakes

Tell me if i'm wrong !

Cheers..

You're wrong!

Cheers

[btvbill]

I just got back from Patpong a few minutes ago and it's like a ghost town there (9:30pm). Very few tourists and all the vendors just sitting around in the dark with all their goods still packed up. I was talking to one vendor and a TV camera showed up out of nowhere. Was walking by one of the go-go's and two girls literally grabbed my arms and tried to pull me inside. Never had that happen before. Looks like times might be a changin'.

A number of police and army personnel around Patpong and Silom Road. As someone else mentioned, MRT access was blocked off earlier tonight probably due to VIP's at the Dusit Thani.

[MJo]

As I mentioned earlier , I completely disagree ...

so you would sooner see the thai vendor go out of business but the yank is fine .... he got his medal ..ha..stopped those dam_n pirated goods... and i don't care about everyone else...

well ... sorry ..but thats BS...and good luck to the vendors....

cheers

I would like to see the yank fine and also the Thai vendor to be just fine selling thai produced goods instead of illegal copies made in china. That would actually leave some money in country rather than all going to the mob guys running the show.

It's actually quite entertaining to read here all these excuses people make just to justify themselfs that it is ok for them to steal. "I'm for the poor thai vendor, screw the corporations, they have too much money anyways" and all that c...p

[IMA_FARANG]

Here's my take ..... If a tourist buys a copy watch , handbag whatever how the hel_l can that affect or infringe on revenue from the original supplier or company.

The tourist is not going to pay hundreds of dollars for an original rolex , gucci or any other brand. So what is the big deal.

Also , the vendor makes his money, he employs thais, the copy factory employs thais who take money home to put food on the table.

I for one am happy to buy a fake as I will never be able to buy the real thing and even if I had enough money I woundn't waste it on name brands anyway.

If a poor person wants to buy a copy or fake then who is it hurting ???

I hope the Gucci's , Valentinos ect.. go bust.... good on the fakes

Tell me if i'm wrong !

Cheers..

steve, while I tend to hold the opinion that extortionist fee practices of certain software companies has lead to the huge counterfit problem its facing, stealing is stealing - call it what you want.

I am not sure what business you are in but if you had someone knocking off your patented / copywrited products and services - you wouldn't be happy.

I don't disgagree as to the 'immediate' commercial harm in having some tourist buy a fake rolex will have on the company - it doesn't make it right does it?

The other day - I went to the licenced Man Utd store in Lad Prao and paid over the top price for a pair of shorts. I could have gotten something very similar on the street for 1/8th the cost I am sure. I chose not too. Why, it wasn't the difference in price - it's the fact that I wanted authentic garment that was hopefully produced in some properly run factory with ethical practices. I have my reasons - I am sure those who buy copies have their reasons.

Are we at this stage in the world the of commerce where R&D and brand building are worth nothing though?

anyways, the actions I would guess are window dressing yet again.

Nice try. but total cr#p.

Buying the "real" product does not gaurentee it was produced by "ethical" or "eviromentally sound" production practices.

In fact the large corporations that produce these name brands, are just as likely to make them in a sweatshop with employees paid a fraction of the wage they should be paid.

I would argue the larger the corporation, the more interested they are in profit only, and therefore the more likely they are to manufacture their goods in the lowest cost sweat shop in a third world country.

As for your example of Man United shorts, simply because you paid the top line price, does not mean you got a quality product produced in a ethical factory.

Does Man Utd manufacture shorts. No, they don't. The merchandise is provided by suppliers who bid on the contract at the lowest price they can afford. That kind of thing almost gaurentees that the merchandiser, Man Utd in this case, simply buys cheap and sells high. Unless Man Utd is very unusual, they don't even ask the mechandise supplier anything but, "How much is the cost per unit?"

Why should you pay $29.95 for a DVd that actually cost the manufacturer less that $1.00 to make. Yes, I know about the "production costs" of making the film DVD...and I know a lot too about how to double or triple the apparent costs of production so that the costs can be used to reduce the actual taxes paid by the production company. Creative accounting.

Anyway I'm getting off the topic. Just let me say that consumer goods especially DVDs, CDs, and other counterfit products are what I will buy if I can. Buying the "official" products is just another capitalist scam that the consumers have to pay for.

I do not care to pay some corporation 3 times what I should for the same product because the market is regulated for the benefit of the producers, and at the expense of the consumers.

The people who are trying to stop the sale of pirated and bootleg DVDs are supported directly by the official producers of the films (i.e. motion picture industry). The salaries of the watchdogs cracking down on DVD piracy are paid for directly (at least in the U.S) by the film makers.

I'm glad that there are people in Thailand who copy and sell pirated goods. It takes the sales away from the capitalist scum that overcharge the consumers.

Just my opinion. Excuse the rant.

[MJo]

Nice try. but total cr#p.

Buying the "real" product does not gaurentee it was produced by "ethical" or "eviromentally sound" production practices.

In fact the large corporations that produce these name brands, are just as likely to make them in a sweatshop with employees paid a fraction of the wage they should be paid.

I would argue the larger the corporation, the more interested they are in profit only, and therefore the more likely they are to manufacture their goods in the lowest cost sweat shop in a third world country.

As for your example of Man United shorts, simply because you paid the top line price, does not mean you got a quality product produced in a ethical factory.

Does Man Utd manufacture shorts. No, they don't. The merchandise is provided by suppliers who bid on the contract at the lowest price they can afford. That kind of thing almost gaurentees that the merchandiser, Man Utd in this case, simply buys cheap and sells high. Unless Man Utd is very unusual, they don't even ask the mechandise supplier anything but, "How much is the cost per unit?"

Why should you pay $29.95 for a DVd that actually cost the manufacturer less that $1.00 to make. Yes, I know about the "production costs" of making the film DVD...and I know a lot too about how to double or triple the apparent costs of production so that the costs can be used to reduce the actual taxes paid by the production company. Creative accounting.

Anyway I'm getting off the topic. Just let me say that consumer goods especially DVDs, CDs, and other counterfit products are what I will buy if I can. Buying the "official" products is just another capitalist scam that the consumers have to pay for.

I do not care to pay some corporation 3 times what I should for the same product because the market is regulated for the benefit of the producers, and at the expense of the consumers.

The people who are trying to stop the sale of pirated and bootleg DVDs are supported directly by the official producers of the films (i.e. motion picture industry). The salaries of the watchdogs cracking down on DVD piracy are paid for directly (at least in the U.S) by the film makers.

I'm glad that there are people in Thailand who copy and sell pirated goods. It takes the sales away from the capitalist scum that overcharge the consumers.

Just my opinion. Excuse the rant.

You forgot one fact which is that the capitalist scum corporations actually produced the material thus they "own" it. Now as owners they have the right to set the price as they see fit. Just like you as a potential customer have the right to choose not to buy if you do not agree with the price.

So your opinion for the correct price has nothing to do with buying pirated copies. Why not just admid to yourself that you buy pirated copies as you can get them cheaper. Not that you can not afford the original one but you choose to buy pirated as it's cheaper and you do not mind the contents have been stolen from the owners and resold to you.

Just out of curiosity, would you buy a car that you 100% know is stolen and feel good about it and boast it here on the forum as right thing to do? Does you logic and opinion apply to that. Car manufacturers are big and you could call them capitalist scum with the bonuses they still pay their management etc...

[Farma]

I assume things have changed now but going back to the late 80’s I know of one western clothing factory on the outskirts of Bangkok that had production lines running to cater for both the legit and copy clothing market. The reason I know was that half the ex’s family worked in that factory.

One production line produced the genuine article with embroidered emblems and packaging for the overseas market.

The other production line stopped short of the emblems and the clothing was shipped to another factory where little crocodiles etc were glued on.

[johnefallis]

Looks like there was a bit of a fracas with the Patpong street traders and the police last night. Only info I can find online about it on the ASTV site here (translated).

Background I heard is that they're upset with a recent clampdown on selling counterfeit items - 2 days notice.

BKK Post and The Nation have absolutely zilch on it so far.

zilch ???

what is that ?

It means zero, nothing.

[baramunchies]

i never buy pirated dvds, cause the quality is so different each time. usually close to not watchable. i buy a lot of original dvds in the shopping malls. most dvd shops have 80-120 baht original of a bit older movies. yet some very rare and good flicks. i think thats the best deal. for new movies i still like to go to the cinema. and occasionally a movie from the 'bay.

the copied clothing is usually quite ugly last seasons diesel or billabong crap. quality is not made for wearing it often. i think you get the better deal from local designer and brands.

So i don't care too much about pirated goods. But i have to say, people deserve some kind of protection if a government never enforced a law. if you obviously tolerate something you set a sign as well. when my thai gf stayed with me in europe, a similar situation came up regarding her visa status. our lawyer was quite successful when he quoted a law that would roughly translate with "protection of trust", but ianal.

[PatinBKk]

I remember a girl that worked for Nike, told me they worked 3 weeks a month for Nike and 1 week for supplying the market stalls....same machines, same materials and same staff.....so what is actually counterfeit. Most of the big names use sweatshops in Asia so ethically is it worth paying the over inflated price in their official outlets......the best phrase I ever heard was from someone that bought a Louis Vutton bag....real cost would be about $5,000, they said " We bought it from a real shop its not a copy"...they paid 2,500 baht instead of 500 from a market...just because the shop has aircon and windows...

[george]

Update:

Patpong skirmish injures 17, vendors file police complaint

BANGKOK: -- Vendors at the Patpong Night Market yesterday lodged a police complaint accusing anti-piracy officials of abusing their power and using excessive force during a raid on Wednesday night.

One vendor is in critical condition after being hit on the head by a group of men armed with sticks who raided the market together with officials from the Commerce Ministry. The raid later turned into a full-blown melee.

At around 11pm on Wednesday, a team of more than 100 people raided the market and indiscriminately started seizing items from stalls, angering the vendors, who responded by throwing stones and objects at the officials. Later, some 200 vendors blocked adjacent roads and intercepted a ministry van carrying their products. Three other vans managed to get away. The skirmish left 10 officials and seven vendors wounded.

The vendors, in their police complaint, charged the anti-piracy team with armed robbery, assault and firearm possession. The officials had earlier filed piracy-related changes against the vendors.

In their complaint, the vendors said the officials did not identify themselves before seizing the products and did not separate contraband items from legal ones. Some vendors were even dragged onto a van and beaten up as the vehicle drove around until dawn before they were released.

A senior police officer later said the Commerce Ministry officials had not notified the Bang Rak police station, whose jurisdiction covers the market, nor had it informed the Economic and Cyber Crimes Division about the raid - a practice usually followed prior to any anti-piracy operations. Pol Maj-General Wibool Bangthamai said two Army officers from an irrelevant Supreme Command unit were also involved in the raid.

Under standard police procedure, items need to be identified, contraband products seized and legal items returned to vendors, Wibool said. The division's main policy focuses on crackdowns on production or storage sources, while small vendors are only arrested after ignoring warnings from police.

Thanks to a joint decision between police and ministry officials, a directive has been issued requiring police officers to regularly conduct anti-piracy operations across Bangkok and report to the Metropolitan Police Bureau every seven days after May 15.

-- The Nation 2009-05-08

[Insight]

Can't really say I have much sympathy for the traders myself to be honest. The only good argument I can see for buying counterfeit goods is how genuine clothes are made using cheap labour is sweatshops, but even this isn't really always the case.

Arguments against buying counterfeit goods, specifically from Patpong are:

It weakens Thailand's position for foreign investment. Why produce anything here if you risk being ripped off?

The cost of the counterfeit items are usually ridiculously overpriced anyhow.

The majority of cash goes towards support underground operations. Do these guys really look like salt-of-the-earth, Thailand's poor to you?

As mentioned, the counterfeit goods lessen the value of the genuine ones

The quality of the items are usually tat anyhow (specifically with the watches)

However I also agree to an extent that manufacturers encourage counterfeit goods by making the originals cost prohibitive in the first place. An interesting case is the way DVD's have evolved in Thailand. Years ago you couldn't pick up a DVD for less than 1,000 baht, while back in the UK they were selling for anywhere between 5-15 GBP. The cost ultimately promoted the purchase of pirated versions of the same, running at about 150 baht per disk.

Now you can pick up a genuine copy of a DVD for around 199-399 baht. For 50 baht more, why run the risk of purchasing a dodgy copy? (which most of them are before the genuine ones hit the shelves).

Ultimately I support any clampdown that helps Thailand move into the 20th century. Off mi' box...

/edit - p.s. If the word "zilch" as thrown you off kilter, please share your thoughts on the word "Zogzag" on the front page of the BKK Post (website)

[Mario2008]

I get many original DVD's for around 90 baht. Many I see in the piratet shops I can buy cheaper at a genuine shop. While they may not have the latest so cheap, there is a fine collection for very cheap.

[mdechgan]

From what I heard on the news last night there was a misunderstanding.

There is a difference between pirated cds,dvds and for fake rolexs and vuitton bags.

Fake dvds and cds are pirated goods, while rolexs and guccis are considered to be copied goods.

The difference is brand name (rolex, louis, etc.). Pirated dvds and cds don't have brand names they are just intellectual copies not sold under any brand name.

The pirated and copied goods are only to be enforced by different police divisions.

Only the local police stations can arrest and seize pirated dvds and cds while another special division can seize copied counterfeit goods anywhere in Thailand.

Of course the local police stations are paid off.

What the vendors are pissed off about is that they had no prior warning of the special division about raids.

Usually they have like 2 days knowledge from the local police station. But last night the special division just came with black trash bags and seized all counterfeit goods with no prior warning.

Of course both are illegal but that's how Thai law is. I have no sympathy for the vendors. In fact I have no sympathy for anyone doing anything illegal. The vendors are mad because they were not warned and their counterfeit stuff was seized. But look, if you know it is illegal then you take the risks. In other countries these guys could face jail time.

[ThaiFelix]

Looks like there was a bit of a fracas with the Patpong street traders and the police last night. Only info I can find online about it on the ASTV site here (translated).

Background I heard is that they're upset with a recent clampdown on selling counterfeit items - 2 days notice.

BKK Post and The Nation have absolutely zilch on it so far.

zilch ???

what is that ?

It means zero, nothing, f... all, ie there are no news reports on the subject.

[ThaiFelix]

Bad money pushing out the good...

Let's look at it this way:

You buy exclusive goods so that you can: 1. show you can afford it 2. Have goods that others can't afford and thus become more exclusive

If counterfeiting allows people to appear to have a real item, this ultimately reduces the "value" of the original item.

If you see aperson with a Rolex now, do you think it's real or that it's a fake ? Personally, I assume it's a fake and this means fewer people will want to buy a real Rolex because they'll have people assume it's a fake and then defend the fact that's it's real.

So, the fake watch is driving out the authentic watch. People now look for other, more exclusive watches that haven't yet been pirated to the extreme.

Another case I can think of is Burberry. It was originally thought to be the domain of the rich and famous until football hooligans started to wear Burberry baseball caps and scarfs.

I bet the Burberry executives didn't rub their hands in glee at the "increase in sales", I bet they sat in shock horror as their market dynamics shifted and they lost the kind of customers they were after; i.e the ones that could afford Burberry outfits and not just baseball caps and scarfs.

No self respecting hi-so would wear something a football hooligan is also wearing.

Bad money drives out good.

Good post tango, I never thought of it like that b4. Thanks

[connel707]

2 days notice... I'm beginning to see a pattern. Someone likes surprises!

I don't see a problem here. Selling pirated goods is illegal in Thailand for many years. No need for any notice!

I met a Farang one time selling replica watches at Pantip Platza, I am sure he was British, his watches were excellent replicas and these must be the type that the real manufacturers worry about, mine still working and looks good after 4 years... its so good, some people have said maybe it came out the back door of the real factory... does anyone really care in this day and age...

[OnNutter]

I dont see any problem with selling counterfeit (spelt right?) goods, its all part of the joy of tourists coming to Bangkok and buying some cheap gifts. I mean think of a fake rolex, people who spend a few thousand baht on one are most probably not the people who will spend say a few thousand pounds on a real one. If anything having more people with rolex on them are spreading the word! Thus making more business for rolex! I cant imagine that people who buy copy watches or goods would have an affect (except copied media like cd's dvd's etc) on the real market. People who can afford the real deal will buy the real deal and people who cant will buy a cheap alternative or a fake/copy.

Just my opinion but obviously not everyone will agree!

Couldn't agree more with your logic in general but do people wearing fake rolex spread the desire to own a real one or a copy? As you state those who can afford a real Rolex will buy one, those who can't will buy the copy. IMHO there will always be a market for both, but the counterfeit item will alway damage the orginals sales by taking away it's exclusiveness and this is why the big name brands get upset. I am now fortunate enough to own several Rolex watches and would not now buy a copy....but when I couldn't afford to own a real one, I wore a copy! In my case this stimulated the desire to own a real one, and once I did I bought others so you could say Rolex benefited from my owning a copy!

At the end of the day, immitation is the sincerest form of flattery and they should be happy that people desire to own their products (or at least a copy!)

[OnNutter]

Here's my take ..... If a tourist buys a copy watch , handbag whatever how the hel_l can that affect or infringe on revenue from the original supplier or company.

The tourist is not going to pay hundreds of dollars for an original rolex , gucci or any other brand. So what is the big deal.

Also , the vendor makes his money, he employs thais, the copy factory employs thais who take money home to put food on the table.

I for one am happy to buy a fake as I will never be able to buy the real thing and even if I had enough money I woundn't waste it on name brands anyway.

If a poor person wants to buy a copy or fake then who is it hurting ???

I hope the Gucci's , Valentinos ect.. go bust.... good on the fakes

Tell me if i'm wrong !

Cheers..

steve, while I tend to hold the opinion that extortionist fee practices of certain software companies has lead to the huge counterfit problem its facing, stealing is stealing - call it what you want.

I am not sure what business you are in but if you had someone knocking off your patented / copywrited products and services - you wouldn't be happy.

I don't disgagree as to the 'immediate' commercial harm in having some tourist buy a fake rolex will have on the company - it doesn't make it right does it?

The other day - I went to the licenced Man Utd store in Lad Prao and paid over the top price for a pair of shorts. I could have gotten something very similar on the street for 1/8th the cost I am sure. I chose not too. Why, it wasn't the difference in price - it's the fact that I wanted authentic garment that was hopefully produced in some properly run factory with ethical practices. I have my reasons - I am sure those who buy copies have their reasons.

Are we at this stage in the world the of commerce where R&D and brand building are worth nothing though?

anyways, the actions I would guess are window dressing yet again.

Nice try. but total cr#p.

Buying the "real" product does not gaurentee it was produced by "ethical" or "eviromentally sound" production practices.

In fact the large corporations that produce these name brands, are just as likely to make them in a sweatshop with employees paid a fraction of the wage they should be paid.

I would argue the larger the corporation, the more interested they are in profit only, and therefore the more likely they are to manufacture their goods in the lowest cost sweat shop in a third world country.

As for your example of Man United shorts, simply because you paid the top line price, does not mean you got a quality product produced in a ethical factory.

Does Man Utd manufacture shorts. No, they don't. The merchandise is provided by suppliers who bid on the contract at the lowest price they can afford. That kind of thing almost gaurentees that the merchandiser, Man Utd in this case, simply buys cheap and sells high. Unless Man Utd is very unusual, they don't even ask the mechandise supplier anything but, "How much is the cost per unit?"

Why should you pay $29.95 for a DVd that actually cost the manufacturer less that $1.00 to make. Yes, I know about the "production costs" of making the film DVD...and I know a lot too about how to double or triple the apparent costs of production so that the costs can be used to reduce the actual taxes paid by the production company. Creative accounting.

Anyway I'm getting off the topic. Just let me say that consumer goods especially DVDs, CDs, and other counterfit products are what I will buy if I can. Buying the "official" products is just another capitalist scam that the consumers have to pay for.

I do not care to pay some corporation 3 times what I should for the same product because the market is regulated for the benefit of the producers, and at the expense of the consumers.

The people who are trying to stop the sale of pirated and bootleg DVDs are supported directly by the official producers of the films (i.e. motion picture industry). The salaries of the watchdogs cracking down on DVD piracy are paid for directly (at least in the U.S) by the film makers.

I'm glad that there are people in Thailand who copy and sell pirated goods. It takes the sales away from the capitalist scum that overcharge the consumers.

Just my opinion. Excuse the rant.

Hear, Hear, well said that man. Buying the "Official" merchandise from the likes of football clubs and movie studios only supports and condones the obscene amount of money paid to top footballers and actors, both of whom perform a job of work like most of us. Thanks to the support of (IMHO) fools who like to pay over the odds for their entertainment and/or mechandise, these people (who in real terms offer little to society) live like royalty.

[Samuian]

watched it on the news on 3 last night - in fact it's apart of a crack down on many places,

known for selling pirated goods - it's illegal, piracy - full stop!

The mob complaining seemed to be an somewhat organized mob -

thugs, touts,

sure they don;t want to have ANYONE to interfere with "their" business -

it's big, big money!

Some red shirts spotted...(might have been coincidence)

and someone shouted: "Aow Thaksin ma, dee qua!"

"bring/have Thaksin back, that was better!"

Not joking, thought I couldn't believe my ears

Anything is possible to politicize!

Specially it goes into peoples pockets and income,

into what they believe is "their turf"...where they are "the law"..

Much, much, much of this stuff will

surface if anything is going to change here...

it goes through all aspects of society ...

[Frezie]

Patpong is ruled by Mafia's .... especially the bars & sex shows... had an horrible experience when went with my friends & family to see the show ... we had to pay 15000 bhats to get out after 15 mins of the show...they actually bring armed goons to threaten tourists....with my serious suggestion to all tourists that they should avoid patpong completely.... thailand has many other places to party ... Pl Pl stay off PATPONG for sure...... Even the cops dont register complaints & the tourist police vanish from that place...

Couldn't agree more. Was persuaded to go there against my better judgement a couple of years ago by a couple of visitors. Went to 2 bars and in both cases struggled to get out without paying a lot of money. In the first case got a bill for about 5 times what it should have been - paid what it should have been and chanced my arm and walked out and was followed down the street by several people screaming abuse. In the second case paid a bill that seemed about right but as I left I was surround by an old crone who said I hadn't paid and about sic young guys who I suspected may have been armed aand got away. Managed to get away by bunging her 500. Never been back since and tell any freinds who come over not to go near the place. You can get copy goods anywhere in BKK and go to relatively safe places like Cowboy or Nana (and many others) So why go to a sewer like Patpong?

[BigC]

Looks like there was a bit of a fracas with the Patpong street traders and the police last night. Only info I can find online about it on the ASTV site here (translated).

Background I heard is that they're upset with a recent clampdown on selling counterfeit items - 2 days notice.

BKK Post and The Nation have absolutely zilch on it so far.

life witghout counterfitting in thailand. There will be alot of poor thai people should they stop it. say good bye to your fake hand bags football shirts caps dvd's.

new govement new laws.

[BigC]

Patpong is ruled by Mafia's .... especially the bars & sex shows... had an horrible experience when went with my friends & family to see the show ... we had to pay 15000 bhats to get out after 15 mins of the show...they actually bring armed goons to threaten tourists....with my serious suggestion to all tourists that they should avoid patpong completely.... thailand has many other places to party ... Pl Pl stay off PATPONG for sure...... Even the cops dont register complaints & the tourist police vanish from that place...

Couldn't agree more. Was persuaded to go there against my better judgement a couple of years ago by a couple of visitors. Went to 2 bars and in both cases struggled to get out without paying a lot of money. In the first case got a bill for about 5 times what it should have been - paid what it should have been and chanced my arm and walked out and was followed down the street by several people screaming abuse. In the second case paid a bill that seemed about right but as I left I was surround by an old crone who said I hadn't paid and about sic young guys who I suspected may have been armed aand got away. Managed to get away by bunging her 500. Never been back since and tell any freinds who come over not to go near the place. You can get copy goods anywhere in BKK and go to relatively safe places like Cowboy or Nana (and many others) So why go to a sewer like Patpong?

go soi cowboy near the BTS asok station/ small strip with good shows

[andyc2006]

I just got back from Patpong a few minutes ago and it's like a ghost town there (9:30pm). Very few tourists and all the vendors just sitting around in the dark with all their goods still packed up. I was talking to one vendor and a TV camera showed up out of nowhere. Was walking by one of the go-go's and two girls literally grabbed my arms and tried to pull me inside. Never had that happen before. Looks like times might be a changin'.

That's funny... you must've spent most of your time in LOS during good economic times (either that, or they had no need to grab you, since you were headed inside anyway ;-) ).

The grab-n-pull technique used to be the standard method of operation -- it's funny the first 1 or 2 times, and maybe even flattering (if you mistook the motives, as I did the first time it happened to me), but after that, when you want to go somewhere, it's rather annoying that they don't accept "no" and let you walk on.

Looks like times have already changed!

[Scott]

I lived in the area of Patpong market for many years and shopped there frequently. I don't ususally buy pirated/copied things any more. I don't really want designer products to begin with, just good stuff that lasts a reasonable time. Most of the stuff in Patpong was absolute crap and it wasn't cheap--even though they knew me and I got the best deal, it was still not cheap.

They are criminals and they are doing something illegal and they should be arrested and prosecuted. Thailand had no trouble with copying drugs, so if they want to do the same with DVD's and Gucci bags, then they can suspend the laws on it and have a field day. Until they do, it's illegal and that's it.

Some of the arguments are akin to condoning drug traffickers because at least the money doesn't go into the pocket of big Pharma!