Any Ideas Why My Sylvania Es Minilynx Mini Twister 11w Bulbs Are Prone To Early Failure?

[gdhm]

Hi,

May I ask if members here if you find Sylvania bulbs more prone to early (or very early) failure than other makes.

I ask because when in Spain it was always Sylvania incandescent light bulbs that gave up the ghost in multi bulb units (such as 3/4 light & fan units. Panasonic and Phillips seemed unproblematic.

Now we have 3 failed Sylvania Minilynx mini Twister 11W bulbs fail in ceiling 4 light/fan units (all grounded). Now 2 have failed one after 2 months and one after 5 that had been in nightly use since November and yet the hours is way below the quoted life time.

More disconcerting is the failure of the 3rd that we noticed today in a guest bedroom. This had only had a few hours use in total ever, as the room has not been used before and has only been lit when passing through occasionally to the upper outside patio.

50% of our ES bulbs are Sylvania (due to their tiny size and being ideal in length for the ceiling light/fans and 50% are Phillips. We have 16 Panasonic or maybe they are Hitachi ring tubes.

We have had no failures except from the Sylvania bulbs and my mind then goes back to their incandescent bulbs being problematic in Spain.

I know our house suffers form low voltage which at night can drop between 180V to 198V max 185V to 189V is common, but the Sylvania bulbs are experiencing nothing different front the other makes. In fact its the ring tubes that are taking a real hammering as they have great difficulty firing up initially and none of these have failed.

Any knowledge on the Sylvania and whether it is known for failure weaknesses in multiple bulb units?

Any recommendations of what is considered best (especially for mini tornado style bulbs?

Thanks, Dave

[Rimmer]

You may have a build up of carbon in the lamp holder itself, which will cause tracking and the lamp will short out and blow it's tiny resistors or whatever it is that live inside it..

[kamalabob2]

Some Light bulbs sold in Thailand come with a written in English 1 year GUARANTEE, such as the OSRAM DULUXSTAR mini twist spiral, DULUXSTAR Compact T3, and DULUXSTAR (T4) . I've had these OSRAM mini twists on 12 to 13 hours each night for over one year and zero burn outs. The Panasonic Inverter florescent lights are on the same amount of hours and zero bulb burn outs. The ONLY bulbs I've had go out were the CFL we put into a dimming socket in a ceiling fan light. Nice dimming, but it shortened the life of the bulbs. We could buy the GE CFL light bulbs that allow for dimming or just not dim the bulbs. Does not answer your Sylvania question directly, but Osram which is owned by Siemens, actually owns the rights to Sylvania in NORTH AMERICA. But in much of the World, SYLVANIA trademark is owned and products marketed by HAVELL's of INDIA, according to Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvania_Electric_Products

You can contact Havells Sylvania in Bangkok at: 02-656-9039 Many "International" and "Local" brands will stand by products if you contact them direct and/or will help you solve problems.

http://www.havells-sylvania.com/content/view/89/

[Crossy]

I've no direct experience but I strongly suspect your low voltage supply is responsible.

The electronics in the CFLs will be working harder to maintain the light output, it could be that the drivers in the smaller units are being taken outside their SOA (Safe Operating Area) and are failing on over-dissipation, this is a common failure mode in SMPS (Switch Mode Power Supplies) which are being run on low supply.

I assume the ring tubes have conventional magnetic ballasts, these are pretty well indestructible and will simply fail to start when the voltage gets too low.

A small ferroresonant AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator) on your lighting circuit may well solve the reliability issues, and another on your fridge and aircon would improve their lives too

Obviously the real fix is to get PEA to solve your voltage issues - good luck with that

[gdhm]

Thanks Crossy, Rimmer and kamalabob2

I've no direct experience but I strongly suspect your low voltage supply is responsible.

The electronics in the CFLs will be working harder to maintain the light output, it could be that the drivers in the smaller units are being taken outside their SOA (Safe Operating Area) and are failing on over-dissipation, this is a common failure mode in SMPS (Switch Mode Power Supplies) which are being run on low supply.

I assume the ring tubes have conventional magnetic ballasts, these are pretty well indestructible and will simply fail to start when the voltage gets too low.

A small ferroresonant AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator) on your lighting circuit may well solve the reliability issues, and another on your fridge and aircon would improve their lives too

Obviously the real fix is to get PEA to solve your voltage issues - good luck with that

Yes we are getting frustrated with PEA. I have asked my wife's contact to ask them more specific questions about the their approved list and working down it. How far down are we and what is the planned target date. Whatis being worked on before ours.

If they cannot/will not tell us or are very vague then we have to assume they are not being totally honest with us.

I do not care if they say 6 months if genuine expectation (well I do I suppose coz of the problem,s but you know what I mean ) but I do care about false vague promises as I cannot plan whether to invest in one, two or several AVR's who wants these if the problem is about to be resolved not do I know whether our contact (if able) need to speak to higher level PEA staff.

Several plots of land are up for sale (one next door to us sold) in our soi and one house being built at the end where the line terminates. If that reasonably large house goes on our line and not the adjacent road's (house is on a corner or two roads plot) then I feel we in our road will all be in major trouble as already one air con can drop Volts by around 5V from what I have observed with my multimeter at night (when it is already under 190V).

Dave

Crossy where would one install such items in the lighting circuitry (just beyond the mains unit in the house) (may eb difficult with it on a hall wall. what would you usually do. Same question for fridges,, PC and aircons please.

One further question on the AVR's do they operate all the time or do they register when Volts ar ein a good range and allow volts to pass through the unit unprocessed (if you know what I am saying). I ask because I recall you advised they hum and they are not 100% efficient and therefore use more electrical units,

Is there any reason you say ferroresonant AVRs. Forgive me I am very ignorant on these and maybe they are the only ones at reasonable price or available.

As I type it is 10am best time fo day for voltage and my PC UPS is cycling between battery and normal power every 10 to 30 seconds. Sometimes more increasingly the power oscillates for 5 to 10 mins like sometime switching a high load appliance on and off every second (this I know will kill most appliances (apart from the most basic). I have NO idea what triggers that phenomena (still not too often)

Regards, Dave

[Crossy]

Crossy where would one install such items in the lighting circuitry (just beyond the mains unit in the house) (may eb difficult with it on a hall wall. what would you usually do. Same question for fridges,, PC and aircons please.

One further question on the AVR's do they operate all the time or do they register when Volts ar ein a good range and allow volts to pass through the unit unprocessed (if you know what I am saying). I ask because I recall you advised they hum and they are not 100% efficient and therefore use more electrical units,

Is there any reason you say ferroresonant AVRs. Forgive me I am very ignorant on these and maybe they are the only ones at reasonable price or available.

As I type it is 10am best time fo day for voltage and my PC UPS is cycling between battery and normal power every 10 to 30 seconds. Sometimes more increasingly the power oscillates for 5 to 10 mins like sometime switching a high load appliance on and off every second (this I know will kill most appliances (apart from the most basic). I have NO idea what triggers that phenomena (still not too often)

There are a couple of AVR threads on the forum, try a search

The units I have here in sunny India are wall hung so you could install one next to your consumer unit, just insert it in the lighting circuit between the breaker and the lights. You will have to do more rewiring if you have multiple lighting circuits and want to use a single AVR, but in that case you'd likely be able to use it to run the fridge/freezer as well.

An AVR is a variable transformer which maintains a constant output voltage with an input voltage that varies both high and low, unlike a UPS they don't normally pass mains direct.

There are several technologies in use, the common ones in the sizes we are considering are tap-changing and ferroresonant. Ferroresonant units tend to be cheaper and constantly adjust the output, tap-changers are more expensive and produce step changes in output, they are however somewhat more efficient.

Here I have an AVR unit for the telly and hi-fi, one for each aircon (mounted next to the outdoor unit) and one that keeps the fridge/freezer happy, the UPS has a built-in AVR that is in circuit all the time.

I have a similar UPS in Thailand that cost about 7000 Baht for 800VA. Or you could insert an AVR in front of your existing UPS, that would make it much happier.

[lopburi3]

I also had Sylvania lamps when first changed over (30 fixtures) and many failures. Believe they were 15-18w (gave them all away). I do not have low voltage so can not blame that. Replaced with 23w Phillips (for more light) and have have very few failures since.

[gdhm]

I also had Sylvania lamps when first changed over (30 fixtures) and many failures. Believe they were 15-18w (gave them all away). I do not have low voltage so can not blame that. Replaced with 23w Phillips (for more light) and have have very few failures since.

Sounds like you and I have similar problems with Sylvania. As I said their incandescent bulbs in Psain (where I had no low voltage problems) were problematic as well.

If I can find (as small) ones by another make (have not so far) I will not buy any more Sylvanias.

Dave

[gdhm]

Crossy ,

I was wondering if it was OK to have an AVR and a UPS in line for su with my PC. You have answered that concern.

I have no problems with our Hi-Fi or TV.

May I ask if you use AVRs for these due to VERY low voltages stopping them functioning OR is it because TVs and Hi-Fi can get damaged by low voltage even when seemingly working 100% OK?

Is it more efficient to have smaller AVRs using a high percentage of their Wattage capacity (load is it?) or bigger ones often only using a small or 50% of their Watt capability? Sorry I understand Watts (but not Va) I believe 800Va is equal to around 560Watts (looking at one add and trying to understand it)

Thanks, Dave

Edited May 15, 2009 by gdhm

[Crossy]

May I ask if you use AVRs for these due to VERY low voltages stopping them functioning OR is it because TVs and Hi-Fi can get damaged by low voltage even when seemingly working 100% OK?

Is it more efficient to have smaller AVRs using a high percentage of their Wattage capacity (load is it?) or bigger ones often only using a small or 50% of their Watt capability? Sorry I understand Watts (but not Va) I believe 800Va is equal to around 560Watts (looking at one add and trying to understand it)

OK, AVRs on the TV etc. Equipment with switching power supplies can be damaged by continuous running on low voltage, so unless your kit has universal power supplies (100-250V) then an AVR would be a wise addition.

AVRs are most efficient when running near their maximum load, so matching the unit to the load will save some power.

The difference between Watts and VA (Volts x Amps) is known as Power Factor. You should use the lower of the two when sizing your AVR, most equipment indicates the wattage anyway. But watch when sizing for those CFLs, they have a terrible power factor, an 18W CFL will actually use about 36VA

[mdechgan]

I've had problems with many mini bulbs. Not just one brand. Even some of the same brand and model, one would last for years while another would last like 2 weeks. I've had a panasonic bulb last 30 seconds and this was with a 2 year warranty.

[filingaccount]

Interesting.

I have had many frustrating failures with Sylvania Minilynx mini Twister 11W.

Nothing wrong with voltages, wiring nor anything else related to electricity in my condo. Confirmed by me, a Thai electrician and the condo builder. The conclusion is that I must have bought a bad batch of the bulbs. ALL 16 I bought broke within 4 weeks of installation.

Some failed spectacularly by simply exploding.

Others dropped out of the sockets (heat expansion and contraction when cooling, perhaps),

but mostly they simply just died quietly (as in turn the light off with the switch, turn it back on... and no light).

I bought Philips Tornado 12 W as replacements and not one has failed on me for over a year.

Strangely enough the two Minilynx spiral 20 W I bought still works to this day (passing a year).

[gdhm]

Thanks Crossy,

I think I will leave the lighting. Having lost only 3 in 3-6 months (be they new) I think the cost factor versus the AVR price will take a long time to catch up with. Especially if I switched to Phillips which other shere seem to have had good experiences (me too both in Spain and some used here.

I already have 8 electronic ballasts and only need another 8 to completely replace my conventional ballasts so they should deal witht eh ring tube starting problems.

will check out the TVs and Hi-Fi. I remember from the past soem vope with 2 voltages 115V and 230V bur needed pushing a manual switch. I am sure you are referring to ones that do not need that manual switching and I suspect my equipment not universal but I will look.

Sylvania:

Well for such a few responders the percentage having experienced problems with Sylvania compared to other makes, suggest a quality control or sensitivity issue with their bulbs or at least certain models.

As I had problems in Spain with their incandescent bulbs as well, whilst no such issues with Phillips incandescent bulbs, I have to think there is a quality control or cheap materials used issue during manufacture with this company and will stay well clear in future.

Thanks all

Dave

[harrry]

Are the lamps vertical with the bub part at the botom. If so the unit is subjected to to uch heat and they will fail. They should be mounted hanging down for effective cooling.

[Crossy]

There certainly seem to be issues with those small Sylvania lamps (locally made maybe?)

I would certainly look at an AVR for your Telly if it's not universal, run your UPS off the same one if it's nearby then it won't spend all day clicking on and off battery.

In Thailand we run all our PCs and AV kit through UPSs with built in AVRs. We have the opposite problem to you as our mains is usually about 240V but has risen to near 250V, the AVR puts out a nice sensible 220V.

Maybe we could sell you our extra 30 Volts

EDIT. According to the Sylvania website the Mini Lynx lamps are 'universal' burning so should be OK either way up. There are are however, known issues with CFLs in fittings that restrict airflow around the ballast electronics causing overheating and failure

[gdhm]

Are the lamps vertical with the bub part at the botom. If so the unit is subjected to to uch heat and they will fail. They should be mounted hanging down for effective cooling.

Mine are angled socket at 2am and bulb 8 pm,

Dave

[gdhm]

There certainly seem to be issues with those small Sylvania lamps (locally made maybe?)

EXTRACT:

I would certainly look at an AVR for your Telly if it's not universal, run your UPS off the same one if it's nearby then it won't spend all day clicking on and off battery.

In Thailand we run all our PCs and AV kit through UPSs with built in AVRs. We have the opposite problem to you as our mains is usually about 240V but has risen to near 250V, the AVR puts out a nice sensible 220V.

I on a website my brand (APC Backup-UPC CS 500) make these I thing it is their RS range. Although when i bought it I was not living here (unless very much more expensive) I would have invested to cover all bases.

Are you willing to give me a cost, brand and model you purchased in Thailand Crossy?

Although it would make my current UPS redundant I am wondering if a combined AVR UPS would work out cheaper and be more specifically suitable for a PC than adding another box (AVR) in line (which format would you recommend I follow a combined unit or an AVR to be added to my UPS)

Maybe we could sell you our extra 30 Volts

That would be great and perfect. THANKS CROSSY

Edited May 16, 2009 by gdhm

[Crossy]

Our Thai unit is a Syndome SZ801 Pro which runs a 32" LCD, media PC, home theatre and the UBC box at about 50% load. IIRC it cost about 6000 Baht.

The PCs are on an old (now on its 3rd set of batteries) and very heavy 1.5kVA APC that came with our stuff from the UK and cost me an arm and a leg years back.

Since you already have a good UPS (APC are the best) I would treat it to a 500W AVR for around 1500-2000 Baht.

EDIT Corrected UPS type, software identifies it incorrectly