Foreigners Opinions On Thai Working Culture

[kudroz]

I happen to get this article from a farang guy who works here in thailand. He got this threw many farangs who have worked here in thailand for many amounts of years. Please note this is NOT in any attempt to bash thai people it is just general observations farangs have seen when working with thais. The actual list is about 2 pages long. I am just putting in some basics.

If you agree or disagree with them is fine, or have any input on the matter feel free to add in on this posting

1.Willing to change: Thais tend to hold on to their good old preferences, with no thought of making changes. Full cooperation is very hard to come around them

2.Thai trait is not daring to express one's ideas

3.Thais dont set ahead a time period on a project even when it must be done on a set time

4.Not willing to obligate and take responsibility in writing

5.Tend not to have any support plans when problems arise

6.Don't know how to solve problems

7.Not willing to tell their foreigner boss about problem until problem is worse

8.when there is a problem no one takes responsibility for the problem

9.Lack working skills

10.Most thais are not interested in learning much of the movement about the world and not in favor to gain any additional knowledge even if it involves work

11.Thai staff on many occasions like to lie on small things such as coming to work late. Absent by giving reason of being sick. Go out of office during work period time

12.Thai prefer bringing in friends or family to involve with work but when any cheating is done by friends or family and get caught thai's usually protect and cover up until discovered by management

13.Thais dont know difference between what is called work and what is called personal matter they like to very much mix the two

14.Like to be very nosy especially fellow workers matters

15.always talk about matters not related to work

16.Always wish to get raised without creating any additional work value

17.Like to quit their jobs without giving advance notices as agreed but still expect full benefits paid to them

of course I do know some of this is be applied to many countries as well.

I agree with most of the points here. Here are a few stories:

17.Like to quit their jobs without giving advance notices as agreed but still expect full benefits paid to them

I've had an employee who quit and sent me an SMS to tell me the job was too stressful and she was quitting. She had a bunch of stuff to take care the next morning and it caused some major issues.

16.Always wish to get raised without creating any additional work value

After my bookeeper's probation ended, she asked for a raise. I told her, well you know the books - we are loosing THB400,000 a month and I had to train you extensively. We'll talk about it again next year, I said. She replied that she had to ask.

14.Like to be very nosy especially fellow workers matters

I had to fire two of my staff after they were caught snooping in the General Manager's office looking for "the reason behind" the Admin. Assistant leaving the company. They were under the impression she was fired and they had to find the details to satisfy their curiosity. I fired them the next day.

11.Thai staff on many occasions like to lie on small things such as coming to work late. Absent by giving reason of being sick. Go out of office during work period time

My bookeeper altered a doctor's certificate to add a few more sick days. My in-house lawyer spotted the different ink on the certificate, went to the hospital and confirmed it was altered. I then fired my bookeeper the next day.

I have other stories relating to poor work performance, absence of common sense and poor judgement. But I can manage that, it's not fun and I wont do it anymore, but I can paddle my way out of this BS. My business offers IT outsourcing services and not selling anything to the Thais - the Philippines and India are a much easier management experience and I can focus on productivity instead of holding the pieces together like in Thailand.

The Thai Labour Protection Act is a farce, I cannot get rid of incompetents nor discipline them and must allow them to take a minimum of 30 paid sick leave per year. Many Thai companies aren't playing by the rules, but I am. I just downsized my company last month and I had to pay 3 months severance pay to some incompetents. That's tough on a startup company.

I find the recruitment process in Thailand is much more difficult than it is in the West. I never really payed much attention to the school people attended nor where they were born. In my experience here, the school they attended has a direct correlation with their performance. I was most pleased with my employees who had their degrees from Assumption University and other top schools. My staff who were born in Bangkok had more common sense and higher intellect than the ones from other parts of Thailand (my observations, no flames please).

I have the upmost respect for the managers who can make a business work in Thailand, most specifically a business who caters to outsourcing services to the West. Thailand isn't a good choice in my experience, there are much better and cheaper alternatives around.

[Samuian]

I...........

I've worked with winners, average people, and some basket cases, but managing here or elsewhere, the keys to creating a productive, strong team remain the same. THe skills to make that team succeed within an enterprise are not always enough, so there has to be some degree of picknig the enterprise.

however, almost all the complaints - not taught to think, not ambitiuos, etc etc - I cannot help but feel these are management 101 tasks to overcome....or to manage the people out.

A good manager works with what they have - and some of the dross is hard work no doubt, but if in 1 year you cannot get things running smoothly, either the organisational structure has some issue (wrong lines of authority), the policies suck (e.g. HR department policy to count tiles non stop and punish people) or you don't know how to hire and fire.

All these are management issues.

The complaints on Thai workers themselves....sorry but simply have not seen the uselessness referred to earlier in well managed groups - certainly see it EVERYWHERE because let's face it, there are a ton of lousy managers out there and that's why it is so easy to appear like a winner just by doing the basics well.

Depends on the industry as well, if you have to"manage" a work force which assembles pre-manufactured things -

things are entirely different then, say in the service related or hospitality industry.

However as being an employee myself - I always found myself challenged by non-work related issues -

regarding power games - orders been given to be watered down by the next one up... no need to complain!

It's your "failure" - manufactured - but still you have to keep the brunt....

Not informed about this or that, "forgot" to inform you about a meeting.

I mean very, very bad diggin' - the better your performance is, the more they will,

if not in the position to carry "the price home", they will do anything, that you will fail -

all the way to instruct certain workers one relies on - not to respond - because .... you

are "this or that"...

and all this being done, with a smile, confronting is a no, no - and if so, the only response

will be "no, no, no..!" denial of any allegations or countering with: "too fussy, too this too that..!"

But basically avoiding any conversation, fact finding session, avoiding clear answers about what is wrong.

Because it's a personal matter.... one may not be in the position to simply leave...

or not willing to give up that easy!

To me in my experience here in T. it always seemed that the Thai-Employer/Superior - doesn't matter what -

is always biased towards his kind, which could be interpreted as simple racism, which it is!

Edited May 15, 2009 by Samuian

[CWMcMurray]

17.Like to quit their jobs without giving advance notices as agreed but still expect full benefits paid to them, we call that unemployment insurance, just give me a reason to quit and I will be collecting state tax free.

Pretty much agree except for this one...

If they quit they do not get to collect unemployment, so they would rather continue to "work" / collect a paycheck until they are fired... then they can collect unemployment for 6 months.

[LivinLOS]

as to being tolerated because of money - you don't mention what other 'good' you have brought with you so why else would you be tolerated?

How about due to the same rules as any Thai wife gets back in our home countries ??

You know.. Free medical, land ownership, equal pricing in everything, probably benefits, pensions, equality under law, perm residence, path to citizenship, etc etc etc..

Of course its only westerners that have to uphold 'fairness' ?? Asian governments can just take without giving ??

[Dakhar]

I happen to get this article from a farang guy who works here in thailand. He got this threw many farangs who have worked here in thailand for many amounts of years. Please note this is NOT in any attempt to bash thai people it is just general observations farangs have seen when working with thais. The actual list is about 2 pages long. I am just putting in some basics.

If you agree or disagree with them is fine, or have any input on the matter feel free to add in on this posting

1.Willing to change: Thais tend to hold on to their good old preferences, with no thought of making changes. Full cooperation is very hard to come around them

2.Thai trait is not daring to express one's ideas

3.Thais dont set ahead a time period on a project even when it must be done on a set time

4.Not willing to obligate and take responsibility in writing

5.Tend not to have any support plans when problems arise

6.Don't know how to solve problems

7.Not willing to tell their foreigner boss about problem until problem is worse

8.when there is a problem no one takes responsibility for the problem

9.Lack working skills

10.Most thais are not interested in learning much of the movement about the world and not in favor to gain any additional knowledge even if it involves work

11.Thai staff on many occasions like to lie on small things such as coming to work late. Absent by giving reason of being sick. Go out of office during work period time

12.Thai prefer bringing in friends or family to involve with work but when any cheating is done by friends or family and get caught thai's usually protect and cover up until discovered by management

13.Thais dont know difference between what is called work and what is called personal matter they like to very much mix the two

14.Like to be very nosy especially fellow workers matters

15.always talk about matters not related to work

16.Always wish to get raised without creating any additional work value

17.Like to quit their jobs without giving advance notices as agreed but still expect full benefits paid to them

of course I do know some of this is be applied to many countries as well.

The problem I see at my work place is that we have a hand full of key employees, without them, there would be a total colapse. These hand full of employees will not allow any other employees to gain their status, knowledge base etc. If they feel threatened by the attempt of training an individual to do their same job, they would quit in an instant. These employees get a way with theft, and if they feel any "heat" from management, they just slow down production or simply refuse to do certain tasks.

So I guess in a way, single individuals that break the "mold" that the OP has discribed above becomes, in some respect, a burden.

If it were up to me, I'd go ahead an bite the bullet and start training others, because really relying on key employees prevents growth and causes all kinds of issues.

[plasticpig]

Reading that original post, it makes me wonder why the Western world is a right fuc_kin' mess and Thailand is doing ok.

Why do you think that is chaps ?

Do you guys honestly believe that westerners have made everything work out well...... ?

Dream on chaps, the west is in a mess, you know it, I know it.

<deleted>, get a grip boys, the days of the white man being oh so fuc_kin' right are long gone, the white man has fukced up his own corner of the globe very nicely thankyou very much, at least give the Thais a chance to do the same. Then maybe you can look at them as equals!

Ha Ha, The shit is on its way to Asia. only a question of time.

[bonobo]

This is only once incident, but it is pertinent to the discussion here.

We recetnly bought some complicated machinery from an Austrian company.  The cmpany sent two engineers here to supervise the set-up and training.  One of them had just done the same thing in Lagos, and had been there for 9 months.

He was here for one month, and the entire time, he was gushing on about how clever our workers were, how hard working, how dedicated.  When one of our own engineers suggested a change in the cooling system, he was astounded and said we would offer that change back to the home company.  He went back early because he felt our staff had learned pretty much what they needed, and would probably only need one more weeks worth of training during the first annual maintenance cycle.

As he left, he told me that he thought our staff was the best he had come upon in his 7 years on the job.

[Dakhar]

This is only once incident, but it is pertinent to the discussion here.

We recetnly bought some complicated machinery from an Austrian company.  The cmpany sent two engineers here to supervise the set-up and training.  One of them had just done the same thing in Lagos, and had been there for 9 months.

He was here for one month, and the entire time, he was gushing on about how clever our workers were, how hard working, how dedicated.  When one of our own engineers suggested a change in the cooling system, he was astounded and said we would offer that change back to the home company.  He went back early because he felt our staff had learned pretty much what they needed, and would probably only need one more weeks worth of training during the first annual maintenance cycle.

As he left, he told me that he thought our staff was the best he had come upon in his 7 years on the job.

Did you really think he would tell you that you have a bunch of morons working with you?

[jrbkk64]

Hi All,

I am managing over 500 Thais, 400 Indians, 80 Burmese, a few expats and 120 Nepalese. Have been with the Thais for over 8 years and the rest over 4 years. I have also managed many hundreds in several countries in Europe.

All these people work in a food manufacturing and logistics environment of international standard. I can honestly say that results up to our standard can be had anywhere. The single most important factor is the manager; the local standards, corruption, educational standards and all of these types of things only play a minor role.

Yes some things are more complicated to get done here or there, but if I balance it all out than the Thai workers are pretty good.

Treat them like your family(act like a type of father figure), show respect for their culture and their chauvinism, however misplaced, and you can get almost anything done.

Just today I asked all my 500 Thai staff to agree to 10 days unpaid leave within this year. Without any negativity at all they have accepted this (and this is not the 1st time). Many work way more hours than they get paid for, absenteeism is less than 1.5%, etc., etc.

Yes it is very hard work, but we achieve what needs to be achieved and more than that. Not ever has an international

customer left us because of quality(western standards!!) in Thailand.

As a manager you just have to find your way around the cultural issues and/or local (poor) standards issues. It is no rocket science, it just requires you to be sensitive to the local culture and use it to your advantage.

Good luck out there!

[bangon04]

if Thai workers are so perfect why oh why does 90% of Thai construction either run;

1) Over budget

2) Over time (gross understatement).

3) Under quality (gross understatement).

4) Defect liability runs longer than construction time....I could go on and on.

They fail time and time again in ALL facets of construction, from the top down.

If Thai construction work is from the top down, no wonder there are defects... Shouldn't they start with the foundations??

[GuestHouse]

Let me reiterate

Foreigners who make such an effort at running down Thai workers almost always fall into one of three groups:

1. Guys who have no experience of working with Thais

2. Bar Stool Pundits (with there usual horse sh1t)

3. Guys who need to run down Thais as a justification of their own job in Thailand (Usually closely related to spending time practicing #2 above).

I mean really - they are like plumbers and electricians back home - A bunch of Prima Donnas hel_l bent on running down anyone who they know in their heart of hearts can do the job they themselves are ripping everyone off for at a fraction of the price and at far better quality.

Do not be fooled - An expat employed at highly inflated rates to get Thais to do the job the Expat is supposed to be an expert at = Guy shitting himself that the people he is supposed to be training to replace him will do exactly that - Replace him.

So he spends every waking minute running the Thais down.

Not exactly rocket science is it?!

And when he's not running Thais down he's strutting around the local Tesco conspicuously sporting his 'Employee ID badge while repeating his verbal prop - "I work here you know'.

99.999% <deleted>

[h90]

Funny that at the same time you can add these to the list.............

1) Thai's have no concept of an 8 hour shift. They work from opening till closing usually 12 hour shifts

2) Thai's have no concept of overtime.....Getting paid more if you work more than 8 hours.

3) Many Thai's have a can do attitude...Meaning they will take a small idea & open a business with it.

aka: small hair shops...small food carts...small services offered..cleaning etc.

4) Most Thais are interested in learning to increase skills or ability to get more jobs.

Look how many speak multi languages

5) Solve problems very well as opposed to throw it away & buy a new one. They take things apart such as generators alternators engines etc & actually fix it instead of buying a new one.

Could go on & on but.........I have a feeling many here either already have their minds closed/set in stone & the others already know that like anywhere in the world you can find two sides to every coin

2) My staff gets overtime and insists. But add 1) they come early, and after some pressure, some offers, some education (sufficiency economic) they stay much longer as they are paid, eat, cook and of course service customer complete out of time.

Usual the original old style for a boss is: you pay low salary, they work many hours, but if the child is sick you give the money for the hospital, or the money if the grandma dies but both is almost vanish

[bonobo]

This is only once incident, but it is pertinent to the discussion here.

We recetnly bought some complicated machinery from an Austrian company. The cmpany sent two engineers here to supervise the set-up and training. One of them had just done the same thing in Lagos, and had been there for 9 months.

He was here for one month, and the entire time, he was gushing on about how clever our workers were, how hard working, how dedicated. When one of our own engineers suggested a change in the cooling system, he was astounded and said we would offer that change back to the home company. He went back early because he felt our staff had learned pretty much what they needed, and would probably only need one more weeks worth of training during the first annual maintenance cycle.

As he left, he told me that he thought our staff was the best he had come upon in his 7 years on the job.

Did you really think he would tell you that you have a bunch of morons working with you?

Actuallly, I think he would, or more specifically, he wouldn't say anything. No praise, certainly.

Several times I saw the surprise on his face when he confided to me that a particular task was pretty hard, but he prefered to show them once, then let our workers try and fail before he went back to show them again. The problem was our staff did it right, much to his surprise.

[Tyree D.]

That's why I'm in Korea and never looked back. Here they have goals of being doctors and lawyers and that means they gotta speak good English and they want to travel. Thais don't wanna leave Thailand.

[Samuian]

I happen to get this article from a farang guy who works here in thailand. He got this threw many farangs who have worked here in thailand for many amounts of years. Please note this is NOT in any attempt to bash thai people it is just general observations farangs have seen when working with thais. The actual list is about 2 pages long. I am just putting in some basics.

If you agree or disagree with them is fine, or have any input on the matter feel free to add in on this posting

1.Willing to change: Thais tend to hold on to their good old preferences, with no thought of making changes. Full cooperation is very hard to come around them

2.Thai trait is not daring to express one's ideas

3.Thais dont set ahead a time period on a project even when it must be done on a set time

4.Not willing to obligate and take responsibility in writing

5.Tend not to have any support plans when problems arise

6.Don't know how to solve problems

7.Not willing to tell their foreigner boss about problem until problem is worse

8.when there is a problem no one takes responsibility for the problem

9.Lack working skills

10.Most thais are not interested in learning much of the movement about the world and not in favor to gain any additional knowledge even if it involves work

11.Thai staff on many occasions like to lie on small things such as coming to work late. Absent by giving reason of being sick. Go out of office during work period time

12.Thai prefer bringing in friends or family to involve with work but when any cheating is done by friends or family and get caught thai's usually protect and cover up until discovered by management

13.Thais dont know difference between what is called work and what is called personal matter they like to very much mix the two

14.Like to be very nosy especially fellow workers matters

15.always talk about matters not related to work

16.Always wish to get raised without creating any additional work value

17.Like to quit their jobs without giving advance notices as agreed but still expect full benefits paid to them

of course I do know some of this is be applied to many countries as well.

The problem I see at my work place is that we have a hand full of key employees, without them, there would be a total colapse. These hand full of employees will not allow any other employees to gain their status, knowledge base etc. If they feel threatened by the attempt of training an individual to do their same job, they would quit in an instant. These employees get a way with theft, and if they feel any "heat" from management, they just slow down production or simply refuse to do certain tasks.

So I guess in a way, single individuals that break the "mold" that the OP has discribed above becomes, in some respect, a burden.

If it were up to me, I'd go ahead an bite the bullet and start training others, because really relying on key employees prevents growth and causes all kinds of issues.

Yep, have been confronted with exactly the same situation,

any time it will be used as a thread against any decision

being made threatening their positions...

the logical follow up of training others - I find undermined

very often by superiors, that they "decide" otherwise...

It's big part of the game here!

It's the ONLY way to survive, unproductive, just

being present, not creatively contributing to the company,

just doing as if one is doing anything,

make oneself indispensable, irreplaceable..

heard it through the grape wine..!

[EndofDays]

Reading that original post, it makes me wonder why the Western world is a right fuc_kin' mess and Thailand is doing ok.

Why do you think that is chaps ?

Do you guys honestly believe that westerners have made everything work out well...... ?

Dream on chaps, the west is in a mess, you know it, I know it.

<deleted>, get a grip boys, the days of the white man being oh so fuc_kin' right are long gone, the white man has fukced up his own corner of the globe very nicely thankyou very much, at least give the Thais a chance to do the same. Then maybe you can look at them as equals!

The "white man",? Uhm, we need to keep racist rants at a minimum. The only problem I have seen with Thai workers is the one I see with a lot of Thai students. Saving "face" is paramount over everything else. Never admit to a wrong or try to avoid situations that might cause trouble or cause to lose "face". That is more of a cultural thing, I believe. Don't be so angry...and who you calling "white man"?

[edgarfriendly]

dumb yourself down

laugh at racist 'jokes'

join in the misogynistic 'banter'

dont worry about anything that 'matters'

you'll do fine.

ef

@ the defenders of all things local - is there any real reason to ignore the poor education system that 'teaches' obedience and memorisation over analysis and comprehension?

are there really no observable effects of this system?

WELL??

e2a - enlightening to see one of the trolls hanging round down there...wheres ya troll mate? trolling elsewhere?

ohhh. dont blame the africans for not wearing deodorant! they dont have it in the west??

or,

dont say bad things about sharks, they dont use teeth for chewing in the west??

Edited May 16, 2009 by edgarfriendly

[MrHammer]

I have only employed some thais do some outsourcing tasks on the internet, so wouldnt know much about running an office.

But from my experience studying here and with thai employees from a customer viewpoint there are two major potential problems I could spot as a foreign employer.

1. Language Skills

Thais really have very bad language skills compared to other nations. They are essentially mono lingual in a language no one needs. I could see this as being a problem if you need to hire people for their english and not their skills. I mean, countries like Malaysia, India, China and the Philipines have much much better language skills. Combine that with the utter fear of thais to 'make a fool' of themselves and the result is people who barely communicate with you unless you speak thai. Which leads me to the next problem:

2. The 'face' issue

I realise this is a general Asian thing, but in Thailand it seems to be much more pronounced. Thailand is politically stuck in the middle ages and unlike countries like Korea and Japan they were never forced to accept that way of living is obsolete. The fear of being left out of the tribe is just so strong here that no one really dares express any new ideas.

[likewise]

Reading that original post, it makes me wonder why the Western world is a right fuc_kin' mess and Thailand is doing ok.

Why do you think that is chaps ?

Do you guys honestly believe that westerners have made everything work out well...... ?

Dream on chaps, the west is in a mess, you know it, I know it.

<deleted>, get a grip boys, the days of the white man being oh so fuc_kin' right are long gone, the white man has fukced up his own corner of the globe very nicely thankyou very much, at least give the Thais a chance to do the same. Then maybe you can look at them as equals!

Thailand is doing ok??? Think you need to watch Thai society a bit closer then.

[IMA_FARANG]

I happen to get this article from a farang guy who works here in thailand. He got this threw many farangs who have worked here in thailand for many amounts of years. Please note this is NOT in any attempt to bash thai people it is just general observations farangs have seen when working with thais. The actual list is about 2 pages long. I am just putting in some basics.

If you agree or disagree with them is fine, or have any input on the matter feel free to add in on this posting

1.Willing to change: Thais tend to hold on to their good old preferences, with no thought of making changes. Full cooperation is very hard to come around them

2.Thai trait is not daring to express one's ideas

3.Thais dont set ahead a time period on a project even when it must be done on a set time

4.Not willing to obligate and take responsibility in writing

5.Tend not to have any support plans when problems arise

6.Don't know how to solve problems

7.Not willing to tell their foreigner boss about problem until problem is worse

8.when there is a problem no one takes responsibility for the problem

9.Lack working skills

10.Most thais are not interested in learning much of the movement about the world and not in favor to gain any additional knowledge even if it involves work

11.Thai staff on many occasions like to lie on small things such as coming to work late. Absent by giving reason of being sick. Go out of office during work period time

12.Thai prefer bringing in friends or family to involve with work but when any cheating is done by friends or family and get caught thai's usually protect and cover up until discovered by management

13.Thais dont know difference between what is called work and what is called personal matter they like to very much mix the two

14.Like to be very nosy especially fellow workers matters

15.always talk about matters not related to work

16.Always wish to get raised without creating any additional work value

17.Like to quit their jobs without giving advance notices as agreed but still expect full benefits paid to them

of course I do know some of this is be applied to many countries as well.

Your attitudes are a Farang centered boss-centered ethics based attitude.

For example:

1. Not receptive to new ideas. Question: will pay them extra for new innovative ideas? If the new method they try fails, will you still pay them or critcise them for their failure. Be honest.

2. This goes straight to "saving face". Even for educated Thais "losing face" is vitally important.

3. THais (oh, and by the way Brits) don't react well to unexpected problems and hold ups that happen during a project. It is a HUMAN trait not just Thai or whatever nationality you pick to criticise. You should see the Greeks here screaming at each other when something unexpected happens to slow down a project.

4. Again "losing face" is a posibility...put nothing in writing and you can't be criticised.

I could go through each one and comment on it...but I'm in a hurry and don't want to take the time. If you look at what you wrote I think you can see that you are predjudiced for two reasons. First because you have a Farang glorification bias...and secondly because you have a boss/owner bias in your opinions.

Maybe you can't see it....but your opinions are biased toward the old "I am the white European Farang with more money and you shouid be so grateful I gave you a job" attitudes.

[chefshane]

The above is all true. More time than it is worth imo.

Do what I did, and take your operations to India instead.

Millions saved and our workforce is far more productive.

You should also be very much aware of the ridiculous laws protecting Thai employees which makes it impossible to discipline and get rid of incompetent and dishonest staff.

Hope Fisher & Paykel are prepared because my operations are of a similar size and we had nothing but problems here. One wonders if it was a gamble made in a drunken, horny night in Patpong rather than an informed decision. Time will tell.

OMG are you serious?

I have been working with Indians at all levels in Dubai for several years.

Never ever again.

Working in Thailand with Thai staff after years of working with Indian management, employees, customers and peers is a blessed relief.

If I ever have to work with Indians again as 95% of my day to day contacts, I might just consider suicide.

I would NEVER ever consider India as a place to do business, unless it was based on cost and never actually had to deal with Indians.

Their education system is a nightmare. No critical thinking or logic or understanding required.

Answer, and question. No grey area. No variables. No problem solving.

Aggressive and rude traits generally.

Very hierarchal. No initiative.

[shudder]

a bloody nightmare.

Thailand is paradise for dealing with people compared to India.

Spend 6 months in India and you will end back here with a new appreciation for the people and culture.

Either that, or you deserve to be in India.

In which case, good luck

[thaihome]

I have only employed some thais do some outsourcing tasks on the internet, so wouldnt know much about running an office.

But from my experience studying here and with thai employees from a customer viewpoint there are two major potential problems I could spot as a foreign employer.

1. Language Skills

Thais really have very bad language skills compared to other nations. They are essentially mono lingual in a language no one needs. I could see this as being a problem if you need to hire people for their english and not their skills. I mean, countries like Malaysia, India, China and the Philipines have much much better language skills. Combine that with the utter fear of thais to 'make a fool' of themselves and the result is people who barely communicate with you unless you speak thai. Which leads me to the next problem:

2. The 'face' issue

I realise this is a general Asian thing, but in Thailand it seems to be much more pronounced. Thailand is politically stuck in the middle ages and unlike countries like Korea and Japan they were never forced to accept that way of living is obsolete. The fear of being left out of the tribe is just so strong here that no one really dares express any new ideas.

So you truly think the face issue is less pronounced in Korea or Japan?

What you mean is they hide it from you better then the Thais.

Th

[punisher]

Reading that original post, it makes me wonder why the Western world is a right fuc_kin' mess and Thailand is doing ok.

Why do you think that is chaps ?

Do you guys honestly believe that westerners have made everything work out well...... ?

Dream on chaps, the west is in a mess, you know it, I know it.

<deleted>, get a grip boys, the days of the white man being oh so fuc_kin' right are long gone, the white man has fukced up his own corner of the globe very nicely thankyou very much, at least give the Thais a chance to do the same. Then maybe you can look at them as equals!

Thailand is doing ok?In what subject?

[samjaidee]

I happen to get this article from a farang guy who works here in thailand. He got this threw many farangs who have worked here in thailand for many amounts of years. Please note this is NOT in any attempt to bash thai people it is just general observations farangs have seen when working with thais. The actual list is about 2 pages long. I am just putting in some basics.

If you agree or disagree with them is fine, or have any input on the matter feel free to add in on this posting

1.Willing to change: Thais tend to hold on to their good old preferences, with no thought of making changes. Full cooperation is very hard to come around them

2.Thai trait is not daring to express one's ideas

3.Thais dont set ahead a time period on a project even when it must be done on a set time

4.Not willing to obligate and take responsibility in writing

5.Tend not to have any support plans when problems arise

6.Don't know how to solve problems

7.Not willing to tell their foreigner boss about problem until problem is worse

8.when there is a problem no one takes responsibility for the problem

9.Lack working skills

10.Most thais are not interested in learning much of the movement about the world and not in favor to gain any additional knowledge even if it involves work

11.Thai staff on many occasions like to lie on small things such as coming to work late. Absent by giving reason of being sick. Go out of office during work period time

12.Thai prefer bringing in friends or family to involve with work but when any cheating is done by friends or family and get caught thai's usually protect and cover up until discovered by management

13.Thais dont know difference between what is called work and what is called personal matter they like to very much mix the two

14.Like to be very nosy especially fellow workers matters

15.always talk about matters not related to work

16.Always wish to get raised without creating any additional work value

17.Like to quit their jobs without giving advance notices as agreed but still expect full benefits paid to them

of course I do know some of this is be applied to many countries as well.

So why do business in Thailand?

Are you insane, surely if you think like this your business mind is totally fawked up by doing business here in the first place?

Lucky you don't work for me, I'd sack you azz immediately for being so stupid.

Pathetic attempt at slagging off Thai people, I notice that I never actually see this in real life, only from the safety of an anonymous internet forum

Something about those small Thai guys strikes terror into the biggest of Farangs.....

Look guys, if your running out of money, go back to the wonderful west, make a fortune, then come back when you have a few quid to spare, remember when you first came to Thailand, pocketful of money, how happy you were ?

Then the money ran out and you blame Thailand.

GTFOH !!!

You've posted so many comments I'd have thought you'd have learned to read properly.

The poster clearly says he got the list from "a farang guy who works here in thailand". He never once says they are his views.

Can't you see he's playing "Devils Advocate".

As for your ranting replying. Your grammar sucks!

[cgit6]

In the Thai language there is NO word for no there is just a word for "not yes", Thai culture is very scared to "hurt someone's feelings" or to offend them, to understand their way of doing you need to understand the culture.

hmmm....ไม่ใช่

[cgit6]

my 2 pence: I feel your pain- and agree- there is a general lack of sophistication (with yes a few exceptions) here due to indoctrination and other socialization habits...and bad education. The west is not in as big of trouble as some here make it to be (they watch too much TV): why? because there exists more of that precious quantity of the key to 'success': smart work with hard work.

Thailand- generally (with some exceptions who are well-travelled/better-educated)- needs to grow up, but ranting about it isnt going to help. Be the teacher by example all the time.

[JimShortz]

There is a great book called "Working With the Thais". It really helps put things in perspective and can really help us all develop better relationships at work, as well as socially... Give it a go if you have an interest in forming better working relationships.

PS I didn't write it and don't know the couple who did, but it certainly is insightful, and really quite digestible too. Written from a very practical standpoint and offering real world examples of how you could deal with situations better/reduce problematic incidents/build better relationships.

[Oberkommando]

The above is all true. More time than it is worth imo.

Do what I did, and take your operations to India instead.

Millions saved and our workforce is far more productive.

You should also be very much aware of the ridiculous laws protecting Thai employees which makes it impossible to discipline and get rid of incompetent and dishonest staff.

Hope Fisher & Paykel are prepared because my operations are of a similar size and we had nothing but problems here. One wonders if it was a gamble made in a drunken, horny night in Patpong rather than an informed decision. Time will tell.

OMG are you serious?

I have been working with Indians at all levels in Dubai for several years.

Never ever again.

Working in Thailand with Thai staff after years of working with Indian management, employees, customers and peers is a blessed relief.

If I ever have to work with Indians again as 95% of my day to day contacts, I might just consider suicide.

I would NEVER ever consider India as a place to do business, unless it was based on cost and never actually had to deal with Indians.

Their education system is a nightmare. No critical thinking or logic or understanding required.

Answer, and question. No grey area. No variables. No problem solving.

Aggressive and rude traits generally.

Very hierarchal. No initiative.

[shudder]

a bloody nightmare.

Thailand is paradise for dealing with people compared to India.

Spend 6 months in India and you will end back here with a new appreciation for the people and culture.

Either that, or you deserve to be in India.

In which case, good luck

The fact that you would "NEVER ever consider India as a place to do business" based on experience gained in Dubai renders your argument moot.

When you have experience of owning and operating a business in India, which I do, then making a comparison with doing the same in Thailand, which I have done, then perhaps your comparisons would hold more water.

Most international companies looking for a foothold in the developing World have chosen India. Indeed the country has skills which Thailand simply cannot offer, their proficiency in the English language is second to none in the developing World and the infrastructure for foreign companies looking to invest is better than its competitors.

Thailand simply can't compete.

I prefer living in Thailand though, which is why I do.

[Hanimal]

I have worked in Thailand for over 20 years, always in Thai organizations and companies. I have been somehow blessed with good teams each time. I suspect it comes down to the interviews - I am fussy and interview my staff personally.

I had a stand up row with my team the other day, each of us bringing up points that need to be improved and criticising the issues, not each other. I loved it. We do this sometimes as we have strong opinions. Our department receives awards each year as the best of its kind in Thailand. If my team did not want to be the best they would keep quiet. Now and then I take them out to dinner or buy some snacks because I know they like to snack. It is too small to call a bribe, just a little thing to show them I appreciate them. If I give them work that involves staying late I stay too (another farang senior exec I know won't do that and several of his staff told me they hate him for giving them work at 5pm that has to be done that night). I get to eat their snacks too.

We always leave the office together unless one has a date. Before criticising Thais, look at what you are doing to create a warm and open atmosphere in the office. My staff know they can hit me with the truth and will ensure I don't make a cultural faux pas (yes, I can also get demanding with other executives and my team advises me to cool it sometimes). They want to help me complete work that we will feel proud of.

Why the topic seems to require rebuke is that I have seen bosses treat staff like dogs and expect them to work hard without showing any respect or kindness. Why would they do that?

I allow them to arrive late because I was with them the night before till late, so I know. If they are MSN-ing during the day, I don't care because they finish their work on time. Why worry about the small stuff?

Before someone else comes up with a stupid list, think about why your staff don't respect you and fix it.

[chiangmaibruce]

There is a great book called "Working With the Thais".

“Working with the Thais – A Guide to Managing in Thailand”, Henry Holmes & Suchada Tangtongtavy, Bangkok Books, 1995