Idiot Aussies: Grow Up And Take Responsibility

[Zappadappa]

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5006703,00.html

By ALEXANDER DOWNER

May 24, 2009 11:30pm

I DON'T know about you, but it's always nice to get emails. Once upon a time you'd look with pleasure at a handful of letters which dropped through the letter box. Now all you get are those threatening looking envelopes with windows. Or if you're Tom Koutsantonis, those nasty missives which tell you about passing unknowingly through a speed camera.

But this is a generalisation. At the height of the Schapelle Corby affair I received 5000 emails in one day from fellow Australians pleading with me to save "our Schapelle" from the horrors of the Indonesian legal system. Or, to be a bit more honest, the few I looked at said that.

I'm sure my successor as foreign minister, Stephen Smith, had his in box bursting last week as people demanded he save the beer mat mum, Annice Smoel, from the ravages of the Thai police.

I felt for him especially when the media started demanding he "do something" to save her.

After about 10 minutes as foreign minister I was a little surprised to learn I was "responsible" for miscreant Australians who got into trouble in foreign countries.

No, no, no, don't get it wrong - drug traffickers, drunks, kleptomaniacs and fraudsters weren't responsible for their own stupidity - I was.

It's about time that great nanny in Canberra, the Federal Government, turned around and told people they are responsible for their own decisions.

I was in Lebanon the other day and went down to the southern cities of Sidon and Tyre. They're fascinating places - old Crusader castles, bustling souks, colourful little food stalls with generous owners offering you a taste of their wares.

But I couldn't help remembering the awful events in those same places three years ago when Israel went to war with Hezbollah.

There were said to be 20,000 Australians in Lebanon at that time and a hefty percentage of them were demanding the Australian Government save them and fast.

Lebanese support groups hit the airwaves screaming that the Government was too slow getting those Australians who wanted to be evacuated to safety. But hang on, Australia's about 15,000km from Lebanon and we don't dock ships in the eastern Mediterranean ready to ferry Australians to safety.

And there was something else. We'd issued a travel advisory months earlier warning Australians of the dangers of southern Lebanon and the risks of going there.

It didn't matter - apparently we had to get them out.

We were lucky. The Australian ambassador, a petite, charming professional called Lyndall Sachs, worked day and night chartering ferries and providing comfort to the evacuees, who hadn't cared about the travel advisories, and whisked them to safety.

It was one of the great achievements of an Australian diplomat. Almost single handedly, she managed to get around 5000 Australians to Cyprus and Turkey.

We then chartered planes to take them back to Australia. I hope they built shrines to her. Some did, at least metaphorically.

But some just whinged. They felt seasick on the ferry and that was our fault. Could they get frequent flyer points for the free flight back to Australia? And all this cost around $30 million dollars - your dollars.

I'll tell you this - I didn't get 5000 emails of thanks but I got plenty of abuse because we weren't fast enough, the ferries didn't go from their port of choice and we were slow because we were racist, and so on. I mean, we'd warned them and told them not to go to the south of Lebanon. They went all the same. And when the proverbial hit the fan it was, you guessed it, "our fault".

Then there was Hurricane Katrina, which flooded much of New Orleans. A mother of an Australian who arrived in New Orleans the day the hurricane hit came to see me in Stirling and demanded I get her son out. Americans couldn't get out but I had to get her son out. I asked if he'd heard the warnings from the U.S. Government that week to avoid New Orleans.

She started shouting. He doesn't follow the news, he doesn't watch TV or read the newspapers. I see, I said. It was my fault he was in New Orleans, was it? What were we to do? Fly helicopters from Australia to America and pick up Australians and leave the Americans behind?

I didn't have the guts to say this as foreign minister but don't you think you should take responsibility for yourself when you go overseas?

If you're too dumb or idle to read the travel advisories and too mean to take out travel insurance when you go overseas then you ought to take responsibility for your own behaviour.

Sure, if there's a catastrophe like the Bali bombings or you're trapped in a corruption scam the government should try to help. But not if you're too lazy and silly to help yourself.

Remember two things when you travel. First, there are no special laws for Australians overseas. Foreigners make the laws over there, not us. And secondly, foreigners do things differently and they're entitled to.

If you go to a Muslim country and get wildly drunk and women start dressing down (if you know what I mean) it can be bloody offensive to the locals. You'll soon be in trouble.

And learn to take responsibility for your own behaviour. Stealing is wrong, even stealing beer mats. I know, I know, the beer mat mum had a few drinks but, no, she wasn't drunk and she was charmingly polite to the local police.

But she was in a foreign country with a different culture and all of us ought to respect that.

Alexander Downer was Australia's Foreign Affairs Minister from 1996 to 2007

[ThaiPauly]

How is this article Thai related?

[Crossy]

Hear, Hear!!

But let's apply this to all the British who get themselves in a spot too (seems we're also pretty good at mis-behaving overseas).

I do not expect my government to get me out of a spot that I got myself into.

Actually I don't expect my government to get me out of a spot, period!!

EDIT. Thai related? It does mention beer mats and theft of same from Thai bars by Aussie women

[sanook2me]

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5006703,00.html

There were said to be 20,000 Australians in Lebanon at that time and a hefty percentage of them were demanding the Australian Government save them and fast.

20,000 Aussies in Lebanon - so half the population were on holiday in this Worldwide popular resort

Those Aussies are f*cking nuts

[geriatrickid]

Wow. An honest statement.

Amazing what happens when one is no longer constrained by PC niceties. The ex FM's comments apply to alot of other countries as well, especially the Lebanon debacle. Canada spent C$85M to evacuate people that were warned not to be there. Same complaints.

Interesting to note that the USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the UK have similar warnings on their websites about travel to Thailand and the inherent dangers. Special emphasis on driving and travel to the deep south. I wonder how many people would pay attention to the avoid all travel warnings posted?

OFFICIAL WARNING: Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada advises against all travel to and through the far southern provinces of Narathiwat, Pattani, Yala, and Songkhla (including the city of Hat Yai). These provinces have been experiencing criminally and politically motivated violent incidents, including acts attributed to armed insurgents. Attacks against military and civilian targets occur almost daily, and include shootings, bombings, beheadings, and arson.

[BFD]

How is this article Thai related?

Well, it has to do with the Aussie lady that was arrested and detained in THAILAND.

[BigSnake]

WOW!! What a Rant!!

[PattayaParent]

Tyre is in the North of Lebanon.

[midasthailand]

A refreshing rush of reality from a former Foreign Affairs Minister. I believe the title of the thread was a bit harsh, surely it should just read - IDIOTS, wake up .....

As for those complaining about it being Thai related, please enlighten me and point out the forum rule which forbids posts unless they are related to Thailand???

[bonobo]

Wow. An honest statement.

Amazing what happens when one is no longer constrained by PC niceties.  

You've got that right.  He couldn't say what he thought when he was serving, but now, he can say exactly what he thinks.  And I have to admit, what he says makes alot of sense to me.

[ozzydom]

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5006703,00.html

There were said to be 20,000 Australians in Lebanon at that time and a hefty percentage of them were demanding the Australian Government save them and fast.

20,000 Aussies in Lebanon - so half the population were on holiday in this Worldwide popular resort

Those Aussies are f*cking nuts

The bulk of them would have been Oz citizens of Lebanese descent.

[H2oDunc]

How is this article Thai related?

Either get a life or read the post before putting the pathetic" whats this to do with Thailand " nonsense.

there have been several stories concerning the behaviour of Ozzies here in THAILAND and the post mentions the lady imprisoned in THAILAND so I find that is enough to make it related to THAILAND!

If it is a true article written by an ex minister then it is refreshingly honest. It not only goes for Ozzies though. There was a Scandinavian complaining that his friend had an accident on Koh Tao and there was no helicopter evacuation and he had to go by boat and there were " waves " Some people do not think they have any responsibility for their behaviour or actions, or lack of in some cases.

[Meridian007]

Good for him! It's great to see (even former) members of the ministry standing up to call bullshit on a situation.

This relates to the thread on farang beggars here. It's no-one else's fault than your own if you travel stupidly! When people travel to developing countries their friends will often comment on their "bravery". That's because traveling to other countries is dangerous, and you have to be prepared and willing to get yourself out of messes. Sure, your government should try to help during times of war and such, but liquoring up and causing problems (such as theft or fighting) in another country is when you should be on your own.

OFFICIAL WARNING: Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada advises against all travel to and through the far southern provinces of Narathiwat, Pattani, Yala, and Songkhla (including the city of Hat Yai). These provinces have been experiencing criminally and politically motivated violent incidents, including acts attributed to armed insurgents. Attacks against military and civilian targets occur almost daily, and include shootings, bombings, beheadings, and arson.

This is a great example of how your country should be helping you. They will warn you! (if you register your address here with them)

I got this sms when I first registered with my embassy as well, and you won't catch me going near those areas unless I've got my own support group to get me out in case of an emergency!

[Lost in LOS]

How is this article Thai related?

having a bad day.........count to 100 before posting next time

[scorecard]

And of course other countries don't have people who misbehave on their own turf and in other countries.

Well what about Britains sizeable numbers of football hooligans and the same types from many other European countries? US holds the world record for guns and deadly violence in schools.

The bottom line is that all countries produce people who are well behaved and people who are idiots.

Whats unfortunately lacking is some form of 'education' about diversity and respect for diversity, and respect for local customs and social values etc.

[LindsayBKK]

Are there countries that don't have any Travel Advisory Warnings?

[sibeymai]

Only a matter of time until this turns into an Aussie bashing thread.

Seems to be the only sensible thing the former Foreign Minister has ever said, or been reported as saying. Perhaps wisdom does come with age.

[moe666]

As I have often said require a test of intelligence when one applies for a passport. A passport from your home country is not a right but a previllage.

[bonobo]

And of course other countries don't have people who misbehave on their own turf and in other countries.

Well what about Britains sizeable numbers of football hooligans and the same types from many other European countries? US holds the world record for guns and deadly violence in schools.

The bottom line is that all countries produce people who are well behaved and people who are idiots.

Whats unfortunately lacking is some form of 'education' about diversity and respect for diversity, and respect for local customs and social values etc.

I think you are missing the point.  His thoughts were not about people "misbehaving." Of course people from all nations "misbehave on their own turf and in other countries."

The point of his comments are about the people who depend on the nanny state to get them out of trouble when they got themselves into it in the first place.  It is about the sense of entitlement people have without regard to the consequences of their choices.

As the Australian Foreign Minister, he has a very personal point-of-view of observing people who do not accept responsibiity for their choices, and of course, all those people are Australian.  But if this was written by The US Secretary of State or the Foreign Ministers of most western nations, well, then the same could probably be said of the citizens of those nations with the same outlandish requests and complaints by people being rescued from similar situations.  

[marsteele]

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5006703,00.html

There were said to be 20,000 Australians in Lebanon at that time and a hefty percentage of them were demanding the Australian Government save them and fast.

20,000 Aussies in Lebanon - so half the population were on holiday in this Worldwide popular resort

Those Aussies are f*cking nuts

Those so called aussie are lebonese who hold dual passports...

[Crushdepth]

The article makes some good points, but the DFAT travel advisories are pretty useless really because they aren't grounded in reality. They need to cut out the theoretical risks (eg. avian influenza, jet skis, tsunamis, angry wildlife, jellyfish stings (like we needed to be told that), political demonstrations, smoke haze) and focus on the *real risks* like road safety.

DFAT screamed blue murder about the red shirt protests, but only 2 people were killed compared to 380 on the roads in the same weekend. But guess what headlined the travel advisory and what didn't get a mention?

Edited May 26, 2009 by Crushdepth

[sabaijai]

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5006703,00.html

By ALEXANDER DOWNER

May 24, 2009 11:30pm

I DON'T know about you, but it's always nice to get emails. Once upon a time you'd look with pleasure at a handful of letters which dropped through the letter box. Now all you get are those threatening looking envelopes with windows. Or if you're Tom Koutsantonis, those nasty missives which tell you about passing unknowingly through a speed camera.

But this is a generalisation. At the height of the Schapelle Corby affair I received 5000 emails in one day from fellow Australians pleading with me to save "our Schapelle" from the horrors of the Indonesian legal system. Or, to be a bit more honest, the few I looked at said that.

I'm sure my successor as foreign minister, Stephen Smith, had his in box bursting last week as people demanded he save the beer mat mum, Annice Smoel, from the ravages of the Thai police.

I felt for him especially when the media started demanding he "do something" to save her.

After about 10 minutes as foreign minister I was a little surprised to learn I was "responsible" for miscreant Australians who got into trouble in foreign countries.

No, no, no, don't get it wrong - drug traffickers, drunks, kleptomaniacs and fraudsters weren't responsible for their own stupidity - I was.

It's about time that great nanny in Canberra, the Federal Government, turned around and told people they are responsible for their own decisions.

I was in Lebanon the other day and went down to the southern cities of Sidon and Tyre. They're fascinating places - old Crusader castles, bustling souks, colourful little food stalls with generous owners offering you a taste of their wares.

But I couldn't help remembering the awful events in those same places three years ago when Israel went to war with Hezbollah.

There were said to be 20,000 Australians in Lebanon at that time and a hefty percentage of them were demanding the Australian Government save them and fast.

Lebanese support groups hit the airwaves screaming that the Government was too slow getting those Australians who wanted to be evacuated to safety. But hang on, Australia's about 15,000km from Lebanon and we don't dock ships in the eastern Mediterranean ready to ferry Australians to safety.

And there was something else. We'd issued a travel advisory months earlier warning Australians of the dangers of southern Lebanon and the risks of going there.

It didn't matter - apparently we had to get them out.

We were lucky. The Australian ambassador, a petite, charming professional called Lyndall Sachs, worked day and night chartering ferries and providing comfort to the evacuees, who hadn't cared about the travel advisories, and whisked them to safety.

It was one of the great achievements of an Australian diplomat. Almost single handedly, she managed to get around 5000 Australians to Cyprus and Turkey.

We then chartered planes to take them back to Australia. I hope they built shrines to her. Some did, at least metaphorically.

But some just whinged. They felt seasick on the ferry and that was our fault. Could they get frequent flyer points for the free flight back to Australia? And all this cost around $30 million dollars - your dollars.

I'll tell you this - I didn't get 5000 emails of thanks but I got plenty of abuse because we weren't fast enough, the ferries didn't go from their port of choice and we were slow because we were racist, and so on. I mean, we'd warned them and told them not to go to the south of Lebanon. They went all the same. And when the proverbial hit the fan it was, you guessed it, "our fault".

Then there was Hurricane Katrina, which flooded much of New Orleans. A mother of an Australian who arrived in New Orleans the day the hurricane hit came to see me in Stirling and demanded I get her son out. Americans couldn't get out but I had to get her son out. I asked if he'd heard the warnings from the U.S. Government that week to avoid New Orleans.

She started shouting. He doesn't follow the news, he doesn't watch TV or read the newspapers. I see, I said. It was my fault he was in New Orleans, was it? What were we to do? Fly helicopters from Australia to America and pick up Australians and leave the Americans behind?

I didn't have the guts to say this as foreign minister but don't you think you should take responsibility for yourself when you go overseas?

If you're too dumb or idle to read the travel advisories and too mean to take out travel insurance when you go overseas then you ought to take responsibility for your own behaviour.

Sure, if there's a catastrophe like the Bali bombings or you're trapped in a corruption scam the government should try to help. But not if you're too lazy and silly to help yourself.

Remember two things when you travel. First, there are no special laws for Australians overseas. Foreigners make the laws over there, not us. And secondly, foreigners do things differently and they're entitled to.

If you go to a Muslim country and get wildly drunk and women start dressing down (if you know what I mean) it can be bloody offensive to the locals. You'll soon be in trouble.

And learn to take responsibility for your own behaviour. Stealing is wrong, even stealing beer mats. I know, I know, the beer mat mum had a few drinks but, no, she wasn't drunk and she was charmingly polite to the local police.

But she was in a foreign country with a different culture and all of us ought to respect that.

Alexander Downer was Australia's Foreign Affairs Minister from 1996 to 2007

Brilliant

[TheLaughingMan]

His article is good, The only thing that bothers me is he, like everyone else that criticises the bar mat woman refuses to acknowledge or admit that the woman wasn't the actual perpetrator that stole the bar mat! She did not even leave the bar with the mat by accident, she never willingly or even accidentally stole anything. Why does everyone gloss over the fact that someone else came forward and tried to confess to stealing the bar mat leaving the accused woman blameless? Anyway, other than that good article.

[mrtoad]

And of course other countries don't have people who misbehave on their own turf and in other countries.

Well what about Britains sizeable numbers of football hooligans and the same types from many other European countries? US holds the world record for guns and deadly violence in schools.

The bottom line is that all countries produce people who are well behaved and people who are idiots.

Whats unfortunately lacking is some form of 'education' about diversity and respect for diversity, and respect for local customs and social values etc.

I admit that the thread title is somewhat misleading, but he was using Aussies as his own personal experince..

I applaud Downer for his refreshing and honest view on people who travel abroad. All countries have idiots, and this article is relative to pretty much every country. I don't think it is customs, values and diversity that are the issue in this article, it is more about respect for laws and how so many people seem to think that their country should bail them out of the shit when they act like a muppet or don't follow travel warnings.

[phaethon]

And yet when this happens...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8067280.stm

nobody shows up to testify and the 'perps' (still dressd in habits and lingerie, in court) are set free :D

The sensible Aussie-expats pretty much only have Bali between home and LOS to soak up the Bogans. So long as there are many places like Malia closer/cheaper to the UK then LOS, then Brit-expats are (relatively) protected from Chavs and can get on with the Aussie-bashing in peace. Rednecks are pretty much restricted by airline regulations regarding firearms and pick-up trucks as carry-on.

Edited May 26, 2009 by phaethon

[barky]

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5006703,00.html

There were said to be 20,000 Australians in Lebanon at that time and a hefty percentage of them were demanding the Australian Government save them and fast.

20,000 Aussies in Lebanon - so half the population were on holiday in this Worldwide popular resort

Those Aussies are f*cking nuts

The reson was that those 20,000 were Lebanese who had gotten their Aussie passport thank you very much and went back to their "home" country. Australia is a country of immigrants and the majority are only loking for an Australian passport. These people were not born in Australia and have absolutely zero affinity with the land. Getting citizenship of Australia and all the privillages that go with it are generally all the vast majority of immigrants want. They only call themselves Australian when it's in their interest to do so, but in reality, (in their heart), they are ____________(add name of country of birth).

Edited May 26, 2009 by barky

[PoorSucker]

Are there countries that don't have any Travel Advisory Warnings?

Nicaragua, Montenegro and Liberia.

[greenwood01]

This is a nice followup on what it does to create a breed from murderers and rapists

lebanon part was gold, i laughed for 5mins.

[phaethon]

They only call themselves Australian when it's in their interest to do so, but in reality, (in their heart), they are ____________(add name of country of birth).

Yes, true-born Australians are a proud race and should fly the flag high!

No, Les, higher than that!

Edited May 26, 2009 by phaethon

[CHdiver]

Now that is excellent written, :D

However, you probably could change Australia to any other Nation you want. Mandatory for everyone to read.