Immigration Crackdown On Border Runners

[samran]

pay no taxes

Nonsense. You seem to be drawing the conclusion that the only tax that gets paid to the gov't is the income tax and I know that you know better than that.

of course not.

Again, please read my previous posts.

On a net basis, I'm arguing that you hang around long enough, you end up taking more than you contribute. You can't just say that people pay indirect taxes such as VAT, customs duty or corporate tax. If you are going to argue that, then you are going to have to look at the other side of the ledger, subsidies and cross subsidies for all sorts of public services that people use, but for some reason consider they don't need to pay for. Plenty of areas in Thailand that the government subsidises.

In economics, it is called 'free riding'.

Edited June 4, 2009 by samran

[johnnynowlivesinpatong]

And if real job is out of a question you can always pretend to be studying thai and get a ED visa. Non-immigrant, all kind of perks like local driving licence and you can call yourself as an expat or resident in the pub in front of your "mates".

For a foreigner who wants to extend their stay in Thailand, studying and learning the Thai language does two things.

First, it provides a more enjoyable and fulfilling experience here, and brings a new level of enjoyement and interaction.

Second, studying Thai, can make you eligible for an ED-Visa, taking away the pain and cost of visa runs.

The overall cost is competitive, and the benefits of the language skill is ongoing. Now you can really impress your 'mates'.

Cheers,

johnnynowlivesinpatong

[beano2274]

This rule will make more people stay on Overstay, the next Immigration rule will be to increase the Maximum overstay fine from 20,000 to 50,000

[ubonjoe]

This rule will make more people stay on Overstay, the next Immigration rule will be to increase the Maximum overstay fine from 20,000 to 50,000

At 500 baht a day fine for an overstay it does not take very long and you can buy a ticket to Kl and back again and get a 30 day entry. Infact about 6 days is more than enough on Air Asia from Bangkok.

It will also very quickly pay for a visa run to Vientiane or anywhere else.

So unless somebody is that bad off financially I cannot see it increasing overstays.

The max fine for overstay is in the immigration act. It has not been changed in 30 years so I don't see that happening very soon.

[MJo]

Jungian: You are presenting misleading information about poverty and education, among other things. I think most of the readers know it.

After reading the comments by all the people who apparently think the visa rules changes over the past 9 years have been wonderful for Thailand, I can only say that I look forward to the day when the visa bar finally hits your chin. That day is coming. It will be interesting to see if your viewpoint changes after that happens.

Errr, most of the readers propably believe facts from World Bank, UN etc as presented by Jungian over anynomous opinion in internet forum without any backup ?

Sorry to break it to you but Texas is not "number one" in education, health care, mexican food etc as the girls tell you

[Jungian]

JR Texas

I am a permanent resident employed by the Thai Government invited by the Thai Government with a pension and benefits. If things get so bad they have an impact on me I will return to the USA happily no harm done. I have a home and a life to go back to in the USA should I ever have to and enough money to get going, I also have all of the documents for my wife and children so they may leave Thailand with me. Please don't take this as bragging it is a fact and what any man (in my opinion) who loves and cares about his family would have. I understand South East Asia in general is not necessarily the most stable place on Earth and my wife and I have an easy out plan should things ever go bad.

I'm not misrepresenting anything as far as what I posted the facts are cold hard non bias facts published by independent sources that have nothing to gain, also not my opinion, quite frankly I too am non bias, I don't care either way and it would not break my heart to return to my country, I love my country and like living there just fine. My wife (after living in the USA for many years) and I decided to move to Thailand before we had children simply because we both agreed it was a better place to raise children. I also had a job and a visa before I ever left my job in the USA to come to Thailand on a relatively permanent basis.

The whole issue here is people doing what they are not supposed to be doing thus making it hard on the average guy trying to do the right thing especially those men with Thai families trying to provide for them while the job market is flooded with illegal workers driving prices down working for 200฿ per hour so they can get drunk most days of the week, no plans, no stability and defiantly no future, they are a burden on this country not a blessing but don't listen to me ask a Thai what they think, I have...

Seriously if you don't have enough money to contact Thai Visa's lawyers and get legal you should be in your own country saving some money unless of course you can't get a job in your own country because... you are a criminal, child molester or running from the law...

JR Texas, I have read a lot of your posts and in general I have thought you to be a voice of reason. I am assuming you're from Texas and I would be interested to know how you feel about Mexicans running across our border?

I am from a small city about 1 hour from New York City and it has gotten so bad we are required to speak Spanish for all government and civil service jobs in the area also for hospitals, police and fire departments, it is getting to the point where Wal-Mart employees are going to be required to speak Spanish and I'm not joking, Allentown Pennsylvania has introduced legislator to make it a bilingual city and you know I guess I wouldn't mind if the people were LEGAL.

[beechguy]

This rule will make more people stay on Overstay, the next Immigration rule will be to increase the Maximum overstay fine from 20,000 to 50,000

That's nonsense, the only people who will over stay, are those that already don't care about abiding by the regulations.

[Jungian]

of course not.

Again, please read my previous posts.

On a net basis, I'm arguing that you hang around long enough, you end up taking more than you contribute. You can't just say that people pay indirect taxes such as VAT, customs duty or corporate tax. If you are going to argue that, then you are going to have to look at the other side of the ledger, subsidies and cross subsidies for all sorts of public services that people use, but for some reason consider they don't need to pay for. Plenty of areas in Thailand that the government subsidises.

In economics, it is called 'free riding'.

Indeed, and if I was here doing border runs I would be saving all my VAT tax receipts as a tourist and get a huge rebate when my running days came to an end...

This rule will make more people stay on Overstay, the next Immigration rule will be to increase the Maximum overstay fine from 20,000 to 50,000

And with luck the fine will be followed by deportation.

[beano2274]

There are enough people here who do not have the correct visas, I know many that do the runs to the border or go out of Thailand, but the expenditure is getting a little too much for their liking, so maybe they might not even bother anymore.

Numerous border runs and 1 flight is gonna cost more than 20,000baht,

1,2 or more years overstay = 20,000baht

If you had to choose which one would you chose? I know the answer for most of my friends who work

for agents teaching in schools without the correct Visa. Remember some teachers are only free at the weekends

to do their border runs.

Edited June 4, 2009 by beano2274

[chefshane]

On reading the topic headline my fist thought was that this was a very OLD topic that had somehow got re-emailed.

first they get rid of 30 days unlimited then 30 day border crossings but re-allow unlimited crossings and now re-introduce a limit.

THis is NOT good policy not good organisation, not though out planning, its just plain tinkering and it is totally worthless. the ill-considered decisions seem to be based more on prejudice than anything else - who exactly are they trying to get at - are border-runners - whoever they are, such a problem??

from a practical point of view this may well screw up some plans of genuine tourists who want to pop in and out of Thailand over a period visiting the neighbouring countries.

If you think about it, it might even "force" some people NOT to leave for Ankhor Wat etc. as they don't want the hasssle of being denied re-entry - once you've got here, they don't want you spending your cash in neighbouring country.

at the end of theday it sends the wrong signals internationally, whether to tourists, those wanting to stay long term and those wanting to invest.

Ten there's the 150 baht ATM fees, changes in bar closing, strange anti free-speech laws...the list just gets bigger and bigger, and to what avail????

how long will it be before they start tinkering withother long-term stayers.... visas - oh wait - they have haven't they!

I can't really see the issue.

I am from Australia.

Most countries cannot even GET a tourist visa.

Very tight laws. Massive tourism industry like here.

Thailand is MUCH more flexible than Australia.

hel_l, I don't even need a visa to vist Thailand. Only if I stay. Then I do it properly, and no problems.

3 Months non B followed by a 1 year visa.

I couldn't even go to India for a weekend - because I needed a visa which would take 7-10 days to apply for.

So I went to SE Asia instead and spent my money in Thailand and Cambodia.

As for 'tourists' entering and leaving - by a dodgy land border, every 15 days, 4 or more times - sounds dodgy to me too.

Why would someone do that?

Why not apply for a longer visa and plan the holiday accordingly to save on cost or hassle.

150 baht ATM fees?

I have an SCB account and use SCB machines. No charges on that at all.

With my Australian cards, there is a commission on credit card withdrawals and a minimal fee in line with international standards.

In Australia it is 25 baht for every tyransaction at every ATM - and if you go inside and do a transaction at the counter it is 100 baht.

Thailand is competitive.

Anti free speech laws?

Most of the expats I know speak a hel_l of as lot more freely here than they are allowed to back home.

Political correctness I believe we refer to it as, when we whinge and complain excessively about the poor situation back home.

Also, try speaking out in the US against popular public opinion and see the reaction.

Or call someone a nigger or a queer and follow the money trail to the lawsuit.

Bar closing times?

I've been in and out of here for 18 years - and have never had a problem getting suitably pissed or finding a drink.

I can understand that some people have an urgent need to get massively intoxicated every single night, and would feel put out if the bars close for 4 or so hours.

But some pre-planning and organisation can get around this.

Me - I go to the bars when they are open, and have a great time like all the people I observe around me.

In fact, I can still be drunk as a Lord as early as midnight.

See me if you need some advice on elbow-bending for best effect.

To what avail?

The visa laws, tightening abuses. Most countries do this.

The ATM fee - don't know. To offset costs or profit from transactions from overseas banks that make no revenue but have large costs. It is a bad economy. This is a bank's job. In fact all business do it now.

Bar closing times? To manage / reduce social impact? Reminder: Many countries, if not most have alcohol licensing laws. Most of them way more prohibitive in Thailand.

So pop over to Malaysia, and when you get to KL and save your 150 baht on bank transactions, pop into the all night bars and handle the scantily clad ladies all night, then at 6am, take one home and tell her how bad the Malaysian Government is, who is the most corrupt one, and maybe even defame the religion.

Then report back on how much better Malaysia is than Thailand.

It's not. trust me.

[Thanh-BKK]

@Jungian

You simply draw the wrong conclusion by saying "everyone who doesn't have a visa is doing something illegal". This is NOT the case! You could as well say "everyone who owns a car that can go faster than 60 km/h is speeding". Which is BS.

Thailand previously allowed back-to-back border runs indefinitely, so doing those border runs indefinitely was 100% perfectly legal. If the authorities now calling it "abuse" when people used the chances given to them by these same authorities, then what do you call that? Hypocrisy? Sorry i am no native English speaker and that special word manages to escape me right now.

Imagine i would be offering you 1,000 Baht per day for doing nothing. You'll take it. And after some time i would then complain that you are "abusing" my generousity? And someone else would even say "you are stealing from me"..?? Sorry sir, it doesn't work that way. If the authorities generate a possibility and people use it then it is no more than LEGAL.

And again, just because YOU are invited by and working for the government does not mean that everyone else gets that same chance. If that were the case i'd ask you right now to please get me such a job. However i come from a country where the general population does not attend university, instead is educated to become skilled professionals - so i don't have a degree, which is the first thing employers in Thailand ask for. Degree above all else, qualifications? Don't matter. I have two diplomas however, making me a professional in two entirely different fields - still i won't get a job here (at least none that would yield a WP), and as i can't marry my boyfriend i don't have THAT possibility either. At 34 i'm too young to retire, so you as obvious "know-it-all" please feel free to tell me what i can do.

And no, i can't afford a lawyer.

And i am NOT the only one in that situation in Thailand. There are many many people like me, without any possibility to "get legal" as you call it but responsible for a family in Thailand and trying to make ends meet.

Think about people a few steps further down from your position and try to understand them instead of calling them all "illegal".

Regards

Thanh

[loong]

Migration has always been about people adding productivly to a country. Creating something. Perpetual tourists do nothing of the sort. I often wonder why people have this sense of entitlement just because they can wave around a few bucks.

You do talk a lot of rubbish!

Perpetual tourists bring foreign currency into Thailand. It's a form of invisible exports.

Who spends more money in Thailand, the once a year 2 week tourist or the perpetual tourist who spends money here 365 days a year.

Perpetual tourist by spending money all year round help to keep a lot of Thais in employment the whole year round, not just 2 or 3 months a year.

Please tell me what migrants contribute to the Uk economy. Most do not add productivity, they are a drain.

Britain is already overcrowded.

................................................................................

............................................................

Why you people keep coming out with this Krap about how good it is in Thailand compared to getting a Visa for the Uk. Are you really so dense? You really can't understand that people from 3rd world countries want to go to the UK because they want to work or leech off of the state. You just can't compare visa regulations in Thailand with the Uk. Yes, it's not easy for a Thai to get a Visa to the Uk, but I would guess that it's a lot easier for a rich Thai to get a Visa than a poor one. A Thai can marry a Brit and become a Uk citizen with all the benefits. No chance the other way round!

You lot just keep on bleating "If you stick to the rules and get a visa, then no problem"

I think that most people who have posted in this thread (me included) are not actually concerned about this particular rule change. What they are concerned about is the way they keep changing the rules. You smug ba****rds can keep repeating "get a visa, get a blah, blah, blah. You just don't get it do you? People like you and I are living here legally, but the next rule change could affect us directly. What's to stop them demanding that you need 10 or 20 mill Baht in the bank before they'll issue extensions or work permits. What's to stop them making it impossible for YOU to stay here? Nothing.

I live here with and take care of my Thai family, but I have no rights and no real security.

Those of you with you high paid jobs and work permits. Have you ever considered what will happen once there are enough Thais trained to do your job? It's quite possible that you will be thrown out and not given a second thought. It wouldn't matter if you have a Thai family, because you have no security and no rights.

If you bothered to read my previous threads you'll see that I've said that visa rules for those with families should be eased, and that it is a funamental human right for a person to be able to live with their family, have work rights and have a clear and predicable path to citizenship. Not withstanding the very real potential for this rule to be exploted by people marrying the first bar girl they meet to get residency rights.

I also have my family here, so I understand the dilema you face. I trudge down to immigration every year to extend my wifes visa, and put up with incremental changes in the system. But as I said, having done the same in the UK, I guarantee that Thailand is miles ahead on that front.

You also basically contradict yourself. You rail against migrants to the UK, who as someone else pointed out, do get some benefits, but who also work in jobs locals don't want to do, and pay taxes. But then you reckon perpetual tourists (ie not married, without families) are some how gods gift to Thailand.

And you reckon perpetual toursists aren't skivving of the state in Thailand as well. You must be joking. Or does national infrastructure appear magically?

I ask, how? The don't work, pay no taxes, create no value via working and use national infrastructure that is paid for and subsidised by the government. I mean, do you reckon hosiptals here are cheap just cause they accept lower wages? Who trained those doctors? the state. Who pays their salary? The state. Who built the road you drove on to get to the hospital? The state. Who built and subsidises the airport which you landed when you arrived into Thailand? The state. Who subsidises the electricity that you use? The state. Who subsidises the water that comes out of your tap? The State...

Who pays the state? My tax dollars...

Perpetual tourists train no one, pass on no knowledge, and don't creat one satang of value for Thailand.

And you reckon shelling out a few bucks to the local 7-11 and tesco lotus somehow makes these perpetual toursits even?

I have bothered to read every post in this thread, the 2nd section of my post was not aimed at you in particular, that's why I tried to separate it with a dotted line.

The Uk does not need migrants to do jobs that locals will not do, there are not enough jobs to go round. Near where I lived in the Uk is an area (Thanet) that was overrun by immigrants. These people do not work, cannot speak English and are there for one reason and only one - to sponge off of the taxpayer.

You are misquoting me, I never said that I thought that long term stayers were God's gift to Thailand, I was disputing the ridulous idea that these people contribute nothing to the economy.

National infrastructure is usually viewed as an investment for the future. Your argument is absolute nonsense. When you first arrived in Thailand you had contributed nothing to the infrastructure. Farangs who drive a car on the road have paid tax when they bought the vehicle, they pay a yearly road tax and they pay tax everytime they refuel it. Airlines pay fees and passengers pay taxes. I am unable to comment on hospitals and electricity.

I can say though, that nearly all of the Thais that I know do not pay any income tax and by virtue of the amount they spend, pay a lot less in indirect taxes than I do. So I would think that I am subsidising them.

Thank you for paying all those tax $ that allow me to live my life in such comfort.

Thai wives of Brits are in the Uk taking advantage of the infrastructure paid for out of my taxes, so a fair exchange anyway.

On a net basis, I'm arguing that you hang around long enough, you end up taking more than you contribute. You can't just say that people pay indirect taxes such as VAT, customs duty or corporate tax. If you are going to argue that, then you are going to have to look at the other side of the ledger, subsidies and cross subsidies for all sorts of public services that people use, but for some reason consider they don't need to pay for. Plenty of areas in Thailand that the government subsidises.

In economics, it is called 'free riding'.

You really should be selling your services as an economic advisor to the many countries that welcome retirees and tourists. I'm sure that they will be very shocked to discover that every tourist and retiree stay actually results in a net loss to the country.

Come on now, do you honestly believe that retirees spending their pension from overseas actually take more than they contribute? I believe that a domestic consumer economy is just as important as an export driven one, or rather a good balance. Retirees spending their pensions here combines the two.

________________________________________________________________________________

__________

A previous poster made a valid point, that high spending foreigners push up prices and to an extent I agree with that, especially housing costs. Tourists have pushed up prices in tourist areas and it would be nice to think that the locals receive higher wages there to compensate. The greedy Thai landowners suck up a lot of the revenue with high rental prices for businesses and dwellings. I would like to see more of the benefits of tourist spending filter down to the ordinary people, but I guess that won't happen any time soon.

[ubonjoe]

There are enough people here who do not have the correct visas, I know many that do the runs to the border or go out of Thailand, but the expenditure is getting a little too much for their liking, so maybe they might not even bother anymore.

Numerous border runs and 1 flight is gonna cost more than 20,000baht,

1,2 or more years overstay = 20,000baht

If you had to choose which one would you chose? I know the answer for most of my friends who work

for agents teaching in schools without the correct Visa. Remember some teachers are only free at the weekends

to do their border runs.

Sorry but those that you mention are the ones that are meant to be hurt by this rule change. Working without a work permit is against the law. The rule change that lowered the entries to 15 days was because of them also.

So an overstay plus working without a work permit if caught could end up with a serious fine, jail time and deportation.

A border run can costs about 2200 baht if you make the trip using a company. Plus other expenses.

A round trip ticket to KL purchased in advance costs about 2600 baht. That will give a 30 entry. It seems to me that a trip out and back that gives 30 days is a lot better than 2 border runs.

[beechguy]

There are enough people here who do not have the correct visas, I know many that do the runs to the border or go out of Thailand, but the expenditure is getting a little too much for their liking, so maybe they might not even bother anymore.

Numerous border runs and 1 flight is gonna cost more than 20,000baht,

1,2 or more years overstay = 20,000baht

If you had to choose which one would you chose? I know the answer for most of my friends who work

for agents teaching in schools without the correct Visa. Remember some teachers are only free at the weekends

to do their border runs.

What I would choose, is to get off my ass, go to Laos and get a double entry tourist visa for not very much money, IF I was a tourist. If it's getting too expensive, perhaps they should reconsider their employment situation.

Those teachers are working illegally and that is probably the reasoning behind this regulation change.

[samran]

You really should be selling your services as an economic advisor to the many countries that welcome retirees and tourists. I'm sure that they will be very shocked to discover that every tourist and retiree stay actually results in a net loss to the country.

Come on now, do you honestly believe that retirees spending their pension from overseas actually take more than they contribute? I believe that a domestic consumer economy is just as important as an export driven one, or rather a good balance. Retirees spending their pensions here combines the two.

I never said short term tourists contribute a net loss. During their time on holidays, they tend to spend at an accelerated rate, more on average than they would spend at home. Of course that spending is welcome.

But when you are living here, you average daily spend decreases. Changes the maths. And the balance.

I'll take 25 high spending tourists over the course of a year renting the same hotel room for two weeks at a time, than one retiree renting a small apartment for a year, and balancing his budget.

I referred to a study done by a study done by Tourism Australia done about 4 or 5 years ago now. It is an interesting read on the spending habits of tourists.

You should also look at the Australian government scrapping its old retirement visa system and replacing it with one where a retiree needs to bring over a fair chunk of money to invest (circa $500K), before they are granted to visa.

Edited June 4, 2009 by samran

[ovenman]

You should also look at the Australian government scrapping its old retirement visa system and replacing it with one where a retiree needs to bring over a fair chunk of money to invest (circa $500K), before they are granted to visa.

Seems to me that looking at Malaysia's My Second Home program would be a more apt comparison than somehow equating Thailand to Australia.

[samran]

You should also look at the Australian government scrapping its old retirement visa system and replacing it with one where a retiree needs to bring over a fair chunk of money to invest (circa $500K), before they are granted to visa.

Seems to me that looking at Malaysia's My Second Home program would be a more apt comparison than somehow equating Thailand to Australia.

Does it have an investment requirement? If so, then yes.

[Einstein]

I just came back in the morning after 12 hours driving from Phuket to Penang and back and this was a nightmare.

I live already for 11 years in Phuket and needed to apply for e new NON_IMMIGRANT B VISA.

More then one year ago I apply in Penang and they gave the one year visa. After one year on Mach 2 2009, I had to apply again for a new one. I went to KL and gave them all the documents that were needed.

They gave me only three months, because she told me that my work permit is expired tomorrow. Yes, that's why I'm here now to apply for a new NON-IMMIGRANT B VISA. If I extended my work permit before, then the date would not be the same.

The labor office need first to see the new NON-IMMIGRANT B VISA. Embassy, NO, we need first work permit, we give you only three Months.

What could I do? Nothing and went back to Phuket with my three Months NON-IMMIGRANT B VISA

I went to the labor office and they put the stamp 3 March 2009 till 3 march 2010 Yes, One day earlier then my visa , but also for one year and I have a three Months Visa??????

Now Monday the first of June, I went to Penang again, because I don't wanted to spend 6000 extra for airplane et cetera, I took the bus.

In the evening I arrived with the Minibus and they stop like always by an bookstore or another agency, who will take for your visa. ( This is normally good and safe)

I gave him all the documents what is needed to get the NON-IMMIGRANT B VISA.

On Wednesday the 3th 2009, I went to the agency to pickup my passport and the Embassy gave me again a three Months NON-IMMIGRANT B VISA.

They agency told me, that he gave all the money 550RM and documents, but they do what they want. Another man from the UK had the same problem. Also he stayed already for 6 years with his Thai family in Thailand. He showed also all documents, work permit et cetera.

Are they getting NUTS in Thailand?

I do this already for years and never had any problem, but it seems that even you have a company, married et cetera they can do what they want. In other words, they follow the law we they wanted.

By the way: The rules for the work permit changed also. They don't change or add your salary inside the book, neither the date has to be equal as your visa.

Again a sign that you are not welcome here in Thailand. Only pay, bring and spend allot of money and go!

You want to do everything the legal way, you'll get stabbed with a bigger knife.

[ubonjoe]

On Wednesday the 3th 2009, I went to the agency to pickup my passport and the Embassy gave me again a three Months NON-IMMIGRANT B VISA.

It was reported several months ago that Penang requres the company to have 8 million in registered capital in order to get a multiple entry visa.

That is the Penang consulates rule and it does not apply anywhere else.

You probably can still get one in KL but you are going to have to go before your current entry runs out because they will want to see atleat 8 months on the work permit to issue the visa.

[ozzydom]

You should also look at the Australian government scrapping its old retirement visa system and replacing it with one where a retiree needs to bring over a fair chunk of money to invest (circa $500K), before they are granted to visa.

Seems to me that looking at Malaysia's My Second Home program would be a more apt comparison than somehow equating Thailand to Australia.

Does it have an investment requirement? If so, then yes.

But at least the money you take into Oz can be used to purchase property IN YOUR OWN NAME and any capitol gains is not taxable .

[samran]

You should also look at the Australian government scrapping its old retirement visa system and replacing it with one where a retiree needs to bring over a fair chunk of money to invest (circa $500K), before they are granted to visa.

Seems to me that looking at Malaysia's My Second Home program would be a more apt comparison than somehow equating Thailand to Australia.

Does it have an investment requirement? If so, then yes.

But at least the money you take into Oz can be used to purchase property IN YOUR OWN NAME and any capitol gains is not taxable .

mate, agree. Thailand is very weak on that point, and shooting itself in the foot.

[ubonjoe]

You should also look at the Australian government scrapping its old retirement visa system and replacing it with one where a retiree needs to bring over a fair chunk of money to invest (circa $500K), before they are granted to visa.

Does it have an investment requirement? If so, then yes.

But at least the money you take into Oz can be used to purchase property IN YOUR OWN NAME and any capitol gains is not taxable .

mate, agree. Thailand is very weak on that point, and shooting itself in the foot.

You can invest 10 million baht here and get an extension of stay and it can lead to a PR.

You can buy a condo, put it in bonds, or fixed deposit accounts or a mixture of the 3.

A bit less than $500K.

[jackspratt]

You should also look at the Australian government scrapping its old retirement visa system and replacing it with one where a retiree needs to bring over a fair chunk of money to invest (circa $500K), before they are granted to visa.

Seems to me that looking at Malaysia's My Second Home program would be a more apt comparison than somehow equating Thailand to Australia.

Does it have an investment requirement? If so, then yes.

But at least the money you take into Oz can be used to purchase property IN YOUR OWN NAME and any capitol gains is not taxable .

Only if that property is your primary place of residence, I believe.

[TVmonitor]

On reading the topic headline my fist thought was that this was a very OLD topic that had somehow got re-emailed.

first they get rid of 30 days unlimited then 30 day border crossings but re-allow unlimited crossings and now re-introduce a limit.

THis is NOT good policy not good organisation, not though out planning, its just plain tinkering and it is totally worthless. the ill-considered decisions seem to be based more on prejudice than anything else - who exactly are they trying to get at - are border-runners - whoever they are, such a problem??

from a practical point of view this may well screw up some plans of genuine tourists who want to pop in and out of Thailand over a period visiting the neighbouring countries.

If you think about it, it might even "force" some people NOT to leave for Ankhor Wat etc. as they don't want the hasssle of being denied re-entry - once you've got here, they don't want you spending your cash in neighbouring country.

at the end of theday it sends the wrong signals internationally, whether to tourists, those wanting to stay long term and those wanting to invest.

Ten there's the 150 baht ATM fees, changes in bar closing, strange anti free-speech laws...the list just gets bigger and bigger, and to what avail????

how long will it be before they start tinkering withother long-term stayers.... visas - oh wait - they have haven't they!

I can't really see the issue.

I am from Australia.

Most countries cannot even GET a tourist visa.

Very tight laws. Massive tourism industry like here.

Thailand is MUCH more flexible than Australia.

hel_l, I don't even need a visa to vist Thailand. Only if I stay. Then I do it properly, and no problems.

3 Months non B followed by a 1 year visa.

I couldn't even go to India for a weekend - because I needed a visa which would take 7-10 days to apply for.

So I went to SE Asia instead and spent my money in Thailand and Cambodia.

As for 'tourists' entering and leaving - by a dodgy land border, every 15 days, 4 or more times - sounds dodgy to me too.

Why would someone do that?

Why not apply for a longer visa and plan the holiday accordingly to save on cost or hassle.

150 baht ATM fees?

I have an SCB account and use SCB machines. No charges on that at all.

With my Australian cards, there is a commission on credit card withdrawals and a minimal fee in line with international standards.

In Australia it is 25 baht for every tyransaction at every ATM - and if you go inside and do a transaction at the counter it is 100 baht.

Thailand is competitive.

Anti free speech laws?

Most of the expats I know speak a hel_l of as lot more freely here than they are allowed to back home.

Political correctness I believe we refer to it as, when we whinge and complain excessively about the poor situation back home.

Also, try speaking out in the US against popular public opinion and see the reaction.

Or call someone a nigger or a queer and follow the money trail to the lawsuit.

Bar closing times?

I've been in and out of here for 18 years - and have never had a problem getting suitably pissed or finding a drink.

I can understand that some people have an urgent need to get massively intoxicated every single night, and would feel put out if the bars close for 4 or so hours.

But some pre-planning and organisation can get around this.

Me - I go to the bars when they are open, and have a great time like all the people I observe around me.

In fact, I can still be drunk as a Lord as early as midnight.

See me if you need some advice on elbow-bending for best effect.

To what avail?

The visa laws, tightening abuses. Most countries do this.

The ATM fee - don't know. To offset costs or profit from transactions from overseas banks that make no revenue but have large costs. It is a bad economy. This is a bank's job. In fact all business do it now.

Bar closing times? To manage / reduce social impact? Reminder: Many countries, if not most have alcohol licensing laws. Most of them way more prohibitive in Thailand.

So pop over to Malaysia, and when you get to KL and save your 150 baht on bank transactions, pop into the all night bars and handle the scantily clad ladies all night, then at 6am, take one home and tell her how bad the Malaysian Government is, who is the most corrupt one, and maybe even defame the religion.

Then report back on how much better Malaysia is than Thailand.

It's not. trust me.

Aren't you just the lucky one?

[dutchchiangmai]

@Jungian

You simply draw the wrong conclusion by saying "everyone who doesn't have a visa is doing something illegal". This is NOT the case! You could as well say "everyone who owns a car that can go faster than 60 km/h is speeding". Which is BS.

Thailand previously allowed back-to-back border runs indefinitely, so doing those border runs indefinitely was 100% perfectly legal. If the authorities now calling it "abuse" when people used the chances given to them by these same authorities, then what do you call that? Hypocrisy? Sorry i am no native English speaker and that special word manages to escape me right now.

Imagine i would be offering you 1,000 Baht per day for doing nothing. You'll take it. And after some time i would then complain that you are "abusing" my generousity? And someone else would even say "you are stealing from me"..?? Sorry sir, it doesn't work that way. If the authorities generate a possibility and people use it then it is no more than LEGAL.

And again, just because YOU are invited by and working for the government does not mean that everyone else gets that same chance. If that were the case i'd ask you right now to please get me such a job. However i come from a country where the general population does not attend university, instead is educated to become skilled professionals - so i don't have a degree, which is the first thing employers in Thailand ask for. Degree above all else, qualifications? Don't matter. I have two diplomas however, making me a professional in two entirely different fields - still i won't get a job here (at least none that would yield a WP), and as i can't marry my boyfriend i don't have THAT possibility either. At 34 i'm too young to retire, so you as obvious "know-it-all" please feel free to tell me what i can do.

And no, i can't afford a lawyer.

And i am NOT the only one in that situation in Thailand. There are many many people like me, without any possibility to "get legal" as you call it but responsible for a family in Thailand and trying to make ends meet.

Think about people a few steps further down from your position and try to understand them instead of calling them all "illegal".

Regards

Thanh

Well spoken and i totally agree with you. Me and some of my friends here spend a total of at least 400.000 bath each month, we comply with all the retirement rules and are still forced to do the stupid border runs. Why make the rules so that we are all forced to leave the country at one time.

Look at Malysia. They will give retirees a visa for 10 years upon arrival.

If they already are willing to do this for retirees i am sure they will do similar visa's for people who aren't 50 but can provide for themselves. In the end, we will leave this country, because of the very strange rules here and the more and more hostile enviorement for Farang. Best example is the new rule that if you are a foreigner and you bought a house in your wifes/girlfriends name, you're breaking the law.(Bangkok Post 3-06-09).

[Jungian]

@Jungian

You simply draw the wrong conclusion by saying "everyone who doesn't have a visa is doing something illegal". This is NOT the case! You could as well say "everyone who owns a car that can go faster than 60 km/h is speeding". Which is BS.

Thailand previously allowed back-to-back border runs indefinitely, so doing those border runs indefinitely was 100% perfectly legal. If the authorities now calling it "abuse" when people used the chances given to them by these same authorities, then what do you call that? Hypocrisy? Sorry i am no native English speaker and that special word manages to escape me right now.

Imagine i would be offering you 1,000 Baht per day for doing nothing. You'll take it. And after some time i would then complain that you are "abusing" my generousity? And someone else would even say "you are stealing from me"..?? Sorry sir, it doesn't work that way. If the authorities generate a possibility and people use it then it is no more than LEGAL.

And again, just because YOU are invited by and working for the government does not mean that everyone else gets that same chance. If that were the case i'd ask you right now to please get me such a job. However i come from a country where the general population does not attend university, instead is educated to become skilled professionals - so i don't have a degree, which is the first thing employers in Thailand ask for. Degree above all else, qualifications? Don't matter. I have two diplomas however, making me a professional in two entirely different fields - still i won't get a job here (at least none that would yield a WP), and as i can't marry my boyfriend i don't have THAT possibility either. At 34 i'm too young to retire, so you as obvious "know-it-all" please feel free to tell me what i can do.

And no, i can't afford a lawyer.

And i am NOT the only one in that situation in Thailand. There are many many people like me, without any possibility to "get legal" as you call it but responsible for a family in Thailand and trying to make ends meet.

Think about people a few steps further down from your position and try to understand them instead of calling them all "illegal".

Regards

Thanh

Not even almost. That is not at all what I said. I said people doing border runs and working or taking up residency are doing something illegal. People here on a 30 day exemption that decide to extend their stay because they are truly tourists more power to them and that goes for tourist visas as well, people who have been here for more than a year on a tourist visa or exemption are playing against the system and not many countries would stand for that. You know d*mn well what I mean and now people are just playing semantics games and reading to much in to it.

[lifemagic]

I applied at Vientiane for a back to back tv yesterday, double entry, and got it free today (last free day).

Yesterday I sat waiting in the outside area near the wait ticket machine. there was some guy arrived, about 30, absolutely wrecked. Could hardly keep his eyes opened, shouted when they wanted him to have a wait ticket, so they let him push in. Another guy sitting in a chelsea shirt got hot so stripped it off and sat their with his hairy tats showing. Today the same drunk guy turned up and got his visa by shouting because he was drunk again and had lost his slip.

If I was Thai I wouldn't like farangs either. They should ban the lot of us, bloody rabble.

[JR Texas]

@Jungian

You simply draw the wrong conclusion by saying "everyone who doesn't have a visa is doing something illegal". This is NOT the case! You could as well say "everyone who owns a car that can go faster than 60 km/h is speeding". Which is BS.

Thailand previously allowed back-to-back border runs indefinitely, so doing those border runs indefinitely was 100% perfectly legal. If the authorities now calling it "abuse" when people used the chances given to them by these same authorities, then what do you call that? Hypocrisy? Sorry i am no native English speaker and that special word manages to escape me right now.

Imagine i would be offering you 1,000 Baht per day for doing nothing. You'll take it. And after some time i would then complain that you are "abusing" my generousity? And someone else would even say "you are stealing from me"..?? Sorry sir, it doesn't work that way. If the authorities generate a possibility and people use it then it is no more than LEGAL.

And again, just because YOU are invited by and working for the government does not mean that everyone else gets that same chance. If that were the case i'd ask you right now to please get me such a job. However i come from a country where the general population does not attend university, instead is educated to become skilled professionals - so i don't have a degree, which is the first thing employers in Thailand ask for. Degree above all else, qualifications? Don't matter. I have two diplomas however, making me a professional in two entirely different fields - still i won't get a job here (at least none that would yield a WP), and as i can't marry my boyfriend i don't have THAT possibility either. At 34 i'm too young to retire, so you as obvious "know-it-all" please feel free to tell me what i can do.

And no, i can't afford a lawyer.

And i am NOT the only one in that situation in Thailand. There are many many people like me, without any possibility to "get legal" as you call it but responsible for a family in Thailand and trying to make ends meet.

Think about people a few steps further down from your position and try to understand them instead of calling them all "illegal".

Regards

Thanh

Not even almost. That is not at all what I said. I said people doing border runs and working or taking up residency are doing something illegal. People here on a 30 day exemption that decide to extend their stay because they are truly tourists more power to them and that goes for tourist visas as well, people who have been here for more than a year on a tourist visa or exemption are playing against the system and not many countries would stand for that. You know d*mn well what I mean and now people are just playing semantics games and reading to much in to it.

You are playing the game and accepting the official line.........all tourists are doing is dealing with the system that is in place. If border runs are legal......THEY ARE LEGAL!

The govt. has created a problem out of a non problem by playing with semantics and tagging these tourists as "border runners" or "perpetual tourists" or whatever.......it is all nonsense.

The Philippines is a good example of a country that will "stand for it." The encourage tourists to stay as long as they want and don't tag them in negative terms.

As long as they are not violating any laws........let them stay........they just spend money. Some are bad but not all of them. The security check at the border should take care of that.

[baboon]

I have just returned from the Andaman club.[Ranong] I enquired about this new regulation and the Officers had no idea what I was talking about. The signs only stated as before; 15 days on arrival at a land border. No mention of how many times. Could Thai officials PLEASE carve in stone what they want and stick to it? It would save a lot of time and stress on both sides.

Edited June 4, 2009 by baboon

[dbrenn]

You should also look at the Australian government scrapping its old retirement visa system and replacing it with one where a retiree needs to bring over a fair chunk of money to invest (circa $500K), before they are granted to visa.

Seems to me that looking at Malaysia's My Second Home program would be a more apt comparison than somehow equating Thailand to Australia.

Malaysia can be your second home. Not for as much as Aussie, but certainly the hard up visa runners need not apply http://www.mm2h.gov.my/conditions.php