Sinsod?

[MJo]

My wife is from Bangkok, and there is no need for sinsod, but I am willing to pay the amount to show her family and friends, although we bought two condos after getting married and also have a car. Sinsod for me is culture, I will pay it, and I know I will not get all of it back, as her Mum will do the planning for the party and the Sinsod will pay for that, that is why I stated I will get 80% back.

If you want a Thai wife, accept the culture and be part of it, pay the sinsod, and enjoy life.

There are loads of topics about sinsod here on this site, read some not just the pinned ones and you might understand more, and see that although people pay a lot of sinsod they get their money back.

I'm with you mate, i had similar experience last year although i just throw in 400k which was topped up by 100k from my wife's sister as wedding gift to us. Anyways the money paid for the party and what was left was returned to us (around 300k). I did buy some gold (50k) as a gift for the mil just as i also wanted to do it traditional way and get her something. There was some comments that i should bring more money into the table but these were put aside by her mother saying "tell anyone who asks that he has better use for his millions than to show them off to the poor people"

So yes, i would arrange the sin sod rather than just refuse to participate. My take is that it is part of the culture and if want to show your respect to her family this is the way to do it. Just make sure it's according to your finances so that you can afford it. Also remember there is lot of ladies in the internet that are just after the sin sod. Nothing else.

[Livinginexile]

Violet Fonce....I'm with ya!

I just got engaged in Bangkok so I could take pictures for the K-1 Visa process.  I gave the parents 50,000 baht as a down payment on the sin sod.

Early in the relationship, she told me 200,000 baht.  Her mom asked for 300,000 baht.  She told her mom she loves me and that I only have to pay 200,000 and for the extra 100,000, she will work when she comes here and give it to her....

I also only have to cough up 5 baht of gold.

Stats, girl from Issan, one 6yo son, BA degree from Mahidol University (I paid for 50% about 5K)

You know...in the long run, if it's true love, the amount of sin sod you pay is irrelevant...

True love?

For who, you?

What about your wife?

Do you understand you were robbed?

That is not the way sinsot works.

The money is for SHOW. Not to give to her parents.

I just can't believe the amount of guys on this forum that believe sinsot is about paying for the bride

Where do they get this idea?

[elektrified]

Sometimes being here, reading about what farangs will do in the name of culture, ..is giving me a headache.

Why not approach every problems in a "fair and square" way by throwing your own common sense into the pot also?

If you want to pay ….then pay

If you can't afford that much….then negotiate...on the amount of you're willing or can pay..(I wouldn't worry about the amount set by the family, if it's more than what you can pay"

If you don't want to pay…..then tell her that....let your gf take that to her family

So what's the problem….why it's so freaking difficult!?!?…huh

Let works this forward and back…shall we?

Forget about her or her family losing face…..if you don't pay

If your girl is worrying about losing face to others… over making you happy,

….then obviously her and her family value their faces more than you, and obviously any able body farang who can put down the set amount will do, not just you.

See?… how much love they have for you?

What is she going to do, if you don't pay?… ditch you?….then ditch her!!

Marriage/ being marriage/relationship is about compromising in everything you do.

and, if another side is showing unwillingless to do so early on, then that should give you some clue of what to come in the future.

I will tell you ….as what some others thais think about "sin-sot".

Even tho, it's part of the tradition….some thais still do, but "many" of US don't practice it anymore.

Those that still do, many of us thais think, they have some type of low self-esteem issue thus the need of showing off.

Many thais think it's so outdated custom, but of course this notion depends on the values and beliefs of the individual family.

If you have no deformities in either physical or mental wise, it should be no problem of you finding a nice girl who will share your common values and beliefs.

Yes, I'm a thai, so at least I should be somewhat qualified to tell you what some other thais are viewing on this issue also.

Later all

Violet Fonce

Thanks for an excellent post from a Thai TV member! The Thai men that I know and respect who are educated and successful have told me the same; old tradition and mainly for people from Isaan who need to show off. The bottom line: Don't pay, there is no need. You are being taken advantage of if you are foolish enough to do so.

[rgs2001uk]

Violet Fonce....I'm with ya!

I just got engaged in Bangkok so I could take pictures for the K-1 Visa process. I gave the parents 50,000 baht as a down payment on the sin sod.

Early in the relationship, she told me 200,000 baht. Her mom asked for 300,000 baht. She told her mom she loves me and that I only have to pay 200,000 and for the extra 100,000, she will work when she comes here and give it to her....

I also only have to cough up 5 baht of gold.

Stats, girl from Issan, one 6yo son, BA degree from Mahidol University (I paid for 50% about 5K)

You know...in the long run, if it's true love, the amount of sin sod you pay is irrelevant...

True love?

For who, you?

What about your wife?

Do you understand you were robbed?

That is not the way sinsot works.

The money is for SHOW. Not to give to her parents.

I just can't believe the amount of guys on this forum that believe sinsot is about paying for the bride

Where do they get this idea?

Livinginexile,

we hear you, I like the bit about the mil asking for 300k baht, for a woman who I asume was married before with a child in tow, what happened to the previous sin sot.

This is taking the piss to the next level, it aint even sin sot its, kee kong.

Violent Fonce summed it up.

[Livinginexile]

Sometimes being here, reading about what farangs will do in the name of culture, ..is giving me a headache.

Why not approach every problems in a “fair and square” way by throwing your own common sense into the pot also?

If you want to pay ….then pay

If you can’t afford that much….then negotiate...on the amount of you're willing or can pay..(I wouldn't worry about the amount set by the family, if it's more than what you can pay"

If you don’t want to pay…..then tell her that....let your gf take that to her family

So what’s the problem….why it’s so freaking difficult!?!?…huh

Let works this forward and back…shall we?

Forget about her or her family losing face…..if you don’t pay

If your girl is worrying about losing face to others… over making you happy,

….then obviously her and her family value their faces more than you, and obviously any able body farang who can put down the set amount will do, not just you.

See?… how much love they have for you?

What is she going to do, if you don’t pay?… ditch you?….then ditch her!!

Marriage/ being marriage/relationship is about compromising in everything you do.

and, if another side is showing unwillingless to do so early on, then that should give you some clue of what to come in the future.

I will tell you ….as what some others thais think about “sin-sot”.

Even tho, it’s part of the tradition….some thais still do, but “many” of US don’t practice it anymore.

Those that still do, many of us thais think, they have some type of low self-esteem issue thus the need of showing off.

Many thais think it’s so outdated custom, but of course this notion depends on the values and beliefs of the individual family.

If you have no deformities in either physical or mental wise, it should be no problem of you finding a nice girl who will share your common values and beliefs.

Yes, I’m a thai, so at least I should be somewhat qualified to tell you what some other thais are viewing on this issue also.

Later all

Violet Fonce

Great post.

At last a response from a Thai member.

I hope the OP and others thinking about paying for their wife reads this.

Thank you Violet

[TheUsernameIsAlreadyTaken]

Sometimes being here, reading about what farangs will do in the name of culture, ..is giving me a headache.

Why not approach every problems in a "fair and square" way by throwing your own common sense into the pot also?

If you want to pay ….then pay

If you can't afford that much….then negotiate...on the amount of you're willing or can pay..(I wouldn't worry about the amount set by the family, if it's more than what you can pay"

If you don't want to pay…..then tell her that....let your gf take that to her family

So what's the problem….why it's so freaking difficult!?!?…huh

Let works this forward and back…shall we?

Forget about her or her family losing face…..if you don't pay

If your girl is worrying about losing face to others… over making you happy,

….then obviously her and her family value their faces more than you, and obviously any able body farang who can put down the set amount will do, not just you.

See?… how much love they have for you?

What is she going to do, if you don't pay?… ditch you?….then ditch her!!

Marriage/ being marriage/relationship is about compromising in everything you do.

and, if another side is showing unwillingless to do so early on, then that should give you some clue of what to come in the future.

I will tell you ….as what some others thais think about "sin-sot".

Even tho, it's part of the tradition….some thais still do, but "many" of US don't practice it anymore.

Those that still do, many of us thais think, they have some type of low self-esteem issue thus the need of showing off.

Many thais think it's so outdated custom, but of course this notion depends on the values and beliefs of the individual family.

If you have no deformities in either physical or mental wise, it should be no problem of you finding a nice girl who will share your common values and beliefs.

Yes, I'm a thai, so at least I should be somewhat qualified to tell you what some other thais are viewing on this issue also.

Later all

Violet Fonce

Great post.

At last a response from a Thai member.

I hope the OP and others thinking about paying for their wife reads this.

Thank you Violet

yes, great post...

[mrbojangles]

Sometimes being here, reading about what farangs will do in the name of culture, ..is giving me a headache.

Why not approach every problems in a “fair and square” way by throwing your own common sense into the pot also?

If you want to pay ….then pay

If you can’t afford that much….then negotiate...on the amount of you're willing or can pay..(I wouldn't worry about the amount set by the family, if it's more than what you can pay"

If you don’t want to pay…..then tell her that....let your gf take that to her family

So what’s the problem….why it’s so freaking difficult!?!?…huh

Let works this forward and back…shall we?

Forget about her or her family losing face…..if you don’t pay

If your girl is worrying about losing face to others… over making you happy,

….then obviously her and her family value their faces more than you, and obviously any able body farang who can put down the set amount will do, not just you.

See?… how much love they have for you?

What is she going to do, if you don’t pay?… ditch you?….then ditch her!!

Marriage/ being marriage/relationship is about compromising in everything you do.

and, if another side is showing unwillingless to do so early on, then that should give you some clue of what to come in the future.

I will tell you ….as what some others thais think about “sin-sot”.

Even tho, it’s part of the tradition….some thais still do, but “many” of US don’t practice it anymore.

Those that still do, many of us thais think, they have some type of low self-esteem issue thus the need of showing off.

Many thais think it’s so outdated custom, but of course this notion depends on the values and beliefs of the individual family.

If you have no deformities in either physical or mental wise, it should be no problem of you finding a nice girl who will share your common values and beliefs.

Yes, I’m a thai, so at least I should be somewhat qualified to tell you what some other thais are viewing on this issue also.

Later all

Violet Fonce

Great post.

At last a response from a Thai member.

I hope the OP and others thinking about paying for their wife reads this.

Thank you Violet

MiG is also a female, she is Thai and she gave you her response.

To me, it is a dying out tradition. A bit like in the UK where the parents of the Bride paid for the wedding. That isn't neccessarily the norm nowadays.

I didn't pay a sin sod to Mrs BoJangles parents,as I wasn't asked. If I'd have been asked, would I have paid? I don't know. However, her Thai nephew has just had to pay a sin sod to the parents of his Thai G/F, albeit they come from a different area.

[ajarnmark]

Pray tell what does this imply:

Quote

Personally I think that my fiancé getting married to me (I don’t have such a high opinion of my self , just considering the opportunities available to her as a US citizen) is of greater value, than sinsod

Unquote.

She is not a US citizen and even if she gets married she is not. Unless you mean yourself, but what benefits does that give her?

Excuse my lack of knowledge here!!!!!!!!!!!

If you marry a US citizen you can apply for a green card, after living in the US after 5 (i think 5) years on the green your card you can apply for US citizenship.

And being a citizen of a first world country does have it's benefits, such as easy international travel, social security safety net etc...

So you mean becoming a citizen of "first world" country and then finally retire to a "third world" country (thailand)?

so many people are doing this, i.e. moving from 1st world to 3rd world.

P.S. I just wonder, where is the 2nd world?

[a2396]

Pay em ZERO!! The concept is 200 years out of date. End of story.

[a2396]

"Im gonna refute this statement somewhat. the idea of sin sod is for the parents to keep. but yes you are right that in practice many families will decide to give back part or all of the sin sod to the couple (there are also instances where the parents will top up the amount!). but all this depends on the financial ability of the individual family. there may be some families who are poor but still decide to give it back. some might not. the same with the rich.

bottom line is - the choice is up to the parents IF they want to give it back.

so you should offer what you think you really are able to give away. (there may be cases when it IS agreed before hand that they only want X amount, but need 10X amount shown, but the rest will be given back. this however needs to be discussed and made very clear. let your fiance do the talking, you dont make that kind of negotiation directly with the parents)

in chinese culture they infact have a person whose role is to engage in these kinds of negotiations!

so those dating chinese thai, you may be aware of this?"

This statement is absolutely wrong. Sinsot is ONLY about show and nothing more. It is NOT about buying the daughter from the parents but rather to show all and sundry that the groom has financial substance and therefore lives up to the bride’s family status.

The sinsot is MOST DEFINATELY given back to the couple after the ceremony.

MOST DEFINATELY given back ??? Where have you been living? Certainly not in Issan.

[ajarnmark]

PS. My finance is a beautiful 25 year old, with a University degree, from a poor family in Isaan .

Something of a Freudian slip there, I fancy

or maybe u "fiancee"

[Livinginexile]

This statement is absolutely wrong. Sinsot is ONLY about show and nothing more. It is NOT about buying the daughter from the parents but rather to show all and sundry that the groom has financial substance and therefore lives up to the bride’s family status.

The sinsot is MOST DEFINATELY given back to the couple after the ceremony.

"MOST DEFINATELY given back ??? Where have you been living? Certainly not in Issan."

Correct, certainly not Issan.

Ask the local Issan Thai men if they PAY for their Thai wives.

After they finish choking on their beer and stop laughing...they will tell you NO.

Sinsot is for show only. End of discussion.

[ajarnmark]

Dowry's were prohibited in the worlds biggest democracy(India) in 1961. I think it's about time Thailand came into the 21st century and followed suit along with the farangs that keep it alive.

Yet hundreds of thousand women are burnt/killed in India for not bringing dowry. Sad but true...

[coventry]

Yes local Isaan men do pay Sin Sot and no it's not the norm to pay back. The last 3 weddings I've been to have been delayed due to fixing the final sum. The last one only went ahead when a cow was included in Sin Sot.

Edited June 9, 2009 by coventry

[kenai]

You should realize that the sin-sod is far more important to her and her family then it is to you.

It is for show no doubt but it is also pride for the daughter to have a husband that can afford X amount of money, a sign she will be taken care of. It may also be pride for the family to be able to give the dowry back.

I also struggled with sin sod a bit. My wife and I have a limited income. We ended up using a check along with a large wad of bills with a thousand baht on top for show. I didn't want a large amount of money actually at the wedding where it could be stolen. We gave her mother a few thousand dollars cant remember the exact amount, she gave it back as planned, I insisted on returning it for her to keep. We also send her money each month to help with food etc. If you are not prepared to help take care of your fiances parents now or in the future, I would say you need to seriously consider what you are doing. In the end this is far more important than sin-sod.

I know guys that have spent thousands on a diamond engagement ring. Strange, I never hear people say that anyone is buying the bride with the diamond.. to me that is a waste. The dowry even if kept is money better spent.

The amount should depend on what you can afford no more, and if the family expects or wants more you need to talk them down or consider what their intentions are.

Also just because you can afford a million doesn't mean you should give a million. It is for show and tell.. the whole village is going to know and if you throw money around you are looking for problems..I think. good luck

Edited June 9, 2009 by kenai

[coventry]

You should realize that the sin-sod is far more important to her and her family then it is to you.

I'm sorry to have a downer on you 'Kenai' as you sound a nice bloke, but if it's "more important to her and her family than it is to you" then let her pay it. Love is a 2 way thing. But love really doesn't come into it in Thailand it's the ability to 'support', that's the most important thing. Love usually comes later in my opinion. The same as in arranged marriages. Edited June 9, 2009 by coventry

[MJo]

My wife actually did pay, she worked and saved for the wedding just as much as I did. But I do understand your point. And part of me agrees, just as I feel if they want an engagement ring worth thousands they can waste their own money on it. Luckily my wife is not the gold or diamond type.

As far as love not coming into it in Thailand I see your point. Perhaps in your culture money and success of the groom matter much less. Many Thai come from a very poor background, when you are very poor money does mean allot.

Families love their children very much they want their daughters to be taken care of, they also often need their children to take care of them. It isn't surprising they want a nice loving son-in-law that can and is "willing" to help take care of them. To me the sin-sod is a way for them to measure the groom. It is also a good way for the groom to gauge the brides family and learn about their intentions...

Spot on Kenai, and the last part especially is very important. This issue shows you their true intentions and motives.

I believe Mig is talking the same thing and also correct. If her parents just want best for their daughter the request is reasonable or the money given back. But for poor family asking few million and not willing to discuss the issue or give anything to the couple shows their true motives which is money and only money. Too bad there is many families where money overrides anything. The desire to have it or the desire not to spend/share it.

[Joost]

So showing off with money is a guarantee someone will take "care" of someone else? Especially if it is a sherade where money is only to show off the family has succesfully married up class?

Where the motive of showing off like this isnt within the family itself but only lies outside the direct people involved (man, woman and immediate family) these sort of explanations is really beyond me.

If the money was to show the parents you are actually able to provide a decent living for your spouse, the matter could be handled in privacy. Really no need to show the whole village you are loaded...

[Swelters]

If your girl is worrying about losing face to others… over making you happy,

….then obviously her and her family value their faces more than you, and obviously any able body farang who can put down the set amount will do, not just you.

See?… how much love they have for you?

Well I'm sure that this logic will appeal to some people. After all, it's what makes the West what it is and where it will likely be fifty years from now.

If a person truly believes that they are simply being scammed cynically then by all means they shouldn't pay anything. For that matter, just skip the wedding, which after all is arguably just a silly old custom anyway.

But I'm surprised that the underlying historical rationale for the whole business has never been mentioned here. That is, that the sinsod is a performance bond required of those who marry carefully protected virgins which are a major social and economic asset in the traditional village economy. Absent the sinsod the risk of abandonment and the cost thereof is too high to be allowable. Where the preconditions are not met the rationale for sinsod is weakened.

But absent pension plans and personal savings the obligation to support the aging remains. This is the rationale for my advice to dress up future parental support in purple cellophane.

Thai culture is still partially local and as such does not participate in "Enlightenment" precepts such as "do what you wish was done universally". This isolates it from the "principles" trumpeted by the west and embraced by young "enlightened" Thai like the correspondent above who would like to enjoy the fruits of western individualism.. But there is another more applicable rule, the literal translation is something like "When you go place everyone squints, squint too."

Swelters

Edited June 12, 2009 by Swelters

[Furbie]

Your GF is from Isaan, and her parents paid for her University studies, therefore I would expect the Sinsod to be about 1 million to 2 million baht, but you could be lucky. I have not paid sinsod, I am legally married but have not done the celebration, where the sinsod is shown to friends and family. My sinsod will be about half a million to 1 million, as my wife also has a degree and she works, her Mum is a well respected teacher here in Bangkok, and I know that I will not see all the money again, but I will see at least 80percent. We have already bought 2 condos, so her mother knows that I will look after her daughter, and her Mum knows me very well, which is a great help. Maybe just ask her parents about how much sinsod they would like to receive, maybe bargain about the amount, also try to find out how much will be given back as a gift from her parents. Good luck

His sinsot....100-200k MAX Your sinsot..50-100k MAX Her mother will keep 20%? You are being conned dude.

Livinginexile, without knowing more about the girl in particular (for example, Thammasat vs. Ramkanhaeng), I agree with the general amounts you stated (100k-200k, 50k-100k). beano2274, sorry mate, those numbers are nuts unless the girl has great income potential and/or her family is upper class.

For the OP, whether the money comes back or not, if this is an issue, don't buy an engagement ring and you will come out way ahead.

To others, I would suggest that anyone with a decent senior Thai connection use that connection to approach the bride's family on your behalf. Most westerners get into serious trouble because they don't have someone in this process negotiating on their behalf.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Furbie

[MiG16]

But absent pension plans and personal savings the obligation to support the aging remains. This is the rationale for my advice to dress up future parental support in purple cellophane.

Swelters, read my previous posts on that aspect

[richard_smith237]

Someone I know ;-)… Will Marry in the near future.

The girl is from a rather wealthy background, Father a wealthy businessman with an honorary position as adviser to someone high up in the government (I’m not sure exactly what this means, but it means he has some level of influence which ever government is in power).

Sin Sod is expected to be 1 MB – Will the western son in law get it back, it’s completely unknown.

My ‘friend’ has many Thai friends one of whom has father in government. This friends father will be the ‘Senior Thai’ who will vouch for him and be present when my friend asks his girlfriends father for her hand in Marriage.

Does my Friend care about the 1MB – Of course he does, but he can easily afford it and understands that its is part of the culture here and something all of his Thai friends have paid, only some have got it all back, some only half.

The Parents in Law would pay for the engagement party. Groom pays for the wedding - From which a significant profit is expected. Regardless of Sin-sod no one will be out of pocket.

In this case, everything is about show and face and the game has to be played.

Edited June 12, 2009 by richard_smith237

[longballlarry]

Family no money you say ? 2 semi healthy cows and a duck that quacks should do it.

[sassienie]

I read the pined post of: Pinned: Sin Sod - An Explanation "PLEASE READ THIS FIRST”

And Now, I am more confused than ever. I understand the terms, and I know the cultural significance of it, but I still don’t know what is appropriate, there are two posts in that thread , one say you always get it back , the other one say you don’t get it back, which one is correct?? I love my fiancé, and I love her family, they are decent people and I want to do the right thing for her and her family. Personally I think that my fiancé getting married to me (I don’t have such a high opinion of my self , just considering the opportunities available to her as a US citizen) is of greater value, than sinsod ,but I understand the need of her family to comply to their cultural norms. After all they have to live in their village and they need to be respected.

I know that this subject has being disclosed many times, I have read countless of posts on the subject, but there are so many conflicting opinions, I am now more confused than ever. Can some one once and for all tell me what is appropriate. Not your opinion on the matter, we all have one, not what you would do, or have done, that is anecdotal, and your particular situation. but what is appropriate.

Thank you

PS. My finance is a beautiful 25 year old, with a University degree, from a poor family in Isaan .

So you are saying that your finance is beautiful, educated and only 25 years old.

Oh boy, ''is this going to cost you'' and the bigger the age gap between you, the more she is going to cost.

I have over 40 English and American friends all married to Thai ladies, including myself, some living abroad, others resident in Thailand, not one of us was ever asked to pay off a family for the purchase of their daughter. And this is exactly what it is, a purchase.

It`s all down to the strong desire for a bit of long term hot totty. Any guy that is willing to go to these extremes must be absolutely desperate and looney tune.

Where I come from in the East End of London, the reply to a request for a sin sod is to sod off.

You also quote that you have a low opinion of yourself and this thread proves it.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for fools and you deserve all the crap that will be coming your way, soon.

Edited June 12, 2009 by sassienie

[Swelters]

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for fools and you deserve all the crap that will be coming your way, soon.

Rx: A week in the monastery and you'll feel much better.

Swelters

[MJo]

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for fools and you deserve all the crap that will be coming your way, soon.

Rx: A week in the monastery and you'll feel much better.

Swelters

And he calls himself "intelligent member"

[mrnixon]

Family no money you say ? 2 semi healthy cows and a duck that quacks should do it.

Why is a guy marrying into a family like this . Need info on ages here! Someone may want to make a documentary!

How can poor people be in such hot demand!

Edited June 13, 2009 by mrnixon

[phutoie2]

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for fools and you deserve all the crap that will be coming your way, soon.

This is the chap who wrote a few weeks ago on the thread 'Why did you leave the UK?' - "No real English fish and chips shops run by English people"

Any advice on matters Thailand from him and possibly his 40 friends with TW'S should be taken with extreme caution

Edited June 13, 2009 by phutoie2

[Swelters]

Someone I know ;-)… Will Marry in the near future.

The girl is from a rather wealthy background, Father a wealthy businessman with an honorary position as adviser to someone high up in the government (I’m not sure exactly what this means, but it means he has some level of influence which ever government is in power).

Sin Sod is expected to be 1 MB – Will the western son in law get it back, it’s completely unknown.

Sinsod is not called for in this case, in fact the request as stated is in bad taste. Why not 10 million?

It could be that the father is trying to discourage the marriage out of disappointment at losing the daughter as a piece for use in family and political matters.

Swelters

[a2396]

I read the pined post of: Pinned: Sin Sod - An Explanation "PLEASE READ THIS FIRST”

And Now, I am more confused than ever. I understand the terms, and I know the cultural significance of it, but I still don’t know what is appropriate, there are two posts in that thread , one say you always get it back , the other one say you don’t get it back, which one is correct?? I love my fiancé, and I love her family, they are decent people and I want to do the right thing for her and her family. Personally I think that my fiancé getting married to me (I don’t have such a high opinion of my self , just considering the opportunities available to her as a US citizen) is of greater value, than sinsod ,but I understand the need of her family to comply to their cultural norms. After all they have to live in their village and they need to be respected.

I know that this subject has being disclosed many times, I have read countless of posts on the subject, but there are so many conflicting opinions, I am now more confused than ever. Can some one once and for all tell me what is appropriate. Not your opinion on the matter, we all have one, not what you would do, or have done, that is anecdotal, and your particular situation. but what is appropriate.

Thank you

PS. My finance is a beautiful 25 year old, with a University degree, from a poor family in Isaan .

So you are saying that your finance is beautiful, educated and only 25 years old.

Oh boy, ''is this going to cost you'' and the bigger the age gap between you, the more she is going to cost.

I have over 40 English and American friends all married to Thai ladies, including myself, some living abroad, others resident in Thailand, not one of us was ever asked to pay off a family for the purchase of their daughter. And this is exactly what it is, a purchase.

It`s all down to the strong desire for a bit of long term hot totty. Any guy that is willing to go to these extremes must be absolutely desperate and looney tune.

Where I come from in the East End of London, the reply to a request for a sin sod is to sod off.

You also quote that you have a low opinion of yourself and this thread proves it.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for fools and you deserve all the crap that will be coming your way, soon.

I agree with your views about sin sod, but I don't know where these 40 guys found women not DEMANDING such extorsion money. I have lived in LOS almost 5 years and almost always here thes mentioned whenever marriageis mentioned or even when marriage is not mentioned. The asking price usually starts at one million, where there is a Farang involved. Yesterday I met a very nice lady of 23, who had a B.A. in English and was embarking on a career of starting her own business. I happened to mention the subject of sin sod & she said her family would probably ask 10-12 million!!!! She said this with quite a straight face. Unbelieveable.